In terms of.....
If you are talking about drinking alcohol or tobacco use moderation is a fallacy of hope. Allowing yourself to believe that a "little here and a little there now and then" is good, fine and dandy then you open yourself up to a whole host of problems and misdecisions down the road.
True repentance and walking in the ways of the One who judges you requires not only being sorry for what you've done but also forsaking entirely the actions and thoughts you seek forgiveness for.
Your body is a temple of God. The Spirit cannot strive and dwell within you if it is being nourished with unclean things.
Perhaps, only if you have no self-control. The bible does not allow people to have self-control, they need to be controlled by their gods word, which evidently is twisted and corrupted to suit their needs whenever they feel the urge.
For example, divorces are most common amongst believers whose scriptures adamantly and emphatically state they will go to their respective hells.
sound of the buzzer again.
in your constant barrage of arguments you constantly claim that most people who claim to be christian are not. Then you bring up these statistics that totally include christians who are not and then you twist your own belief system around and purposely lie to us by telling us that christians divorce when you have constantly said that most christians are not.
Clearly you make no sense.
Clearly there is an insanity clearly shown here. Disneyland and starving people did it, Goddinnit do it
The bible does not allow people to have self-control.
Sound of the buzzer again.
The point I get from Beelzedad's arguments (which can be maddeningly insane at times) is that many people mouth the words. They don't attempt to internalize them. But if you make the claim, check the box for Christian, and then stand on a pedestal above everyone else; you are part of the whole so therefor can be included in any statistical analysis. Unfair? Maybe. Unreasonable? Probably not.
I have no idea where he gets divorcees go to hell. He must be interpreting scripture to suit his fancy.
Nope, as usual, I am merely going by what Christians claim and nothing else, whether their claims are from the bible or whether they make it up themselves.
"Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." (Mark 10:9)
Does that imply the concept of hell? I'm a little confused on that one.
beely is never correct.
He says there aren't any christians. Then he says they are all divorcing.
Obviously there are only a small number of true and faithful believers and these will not divorce. So obviously when talking about a breech in Gods rules such as this we are talking about people who have a weak stand in christ. Not that i wouldn't call them christians as i know very little about them, but this one thing is not according to scripture.
obviously being a christian is hard. Denying ones' self difficult. And for those that fail lifes an upstream battle in hubpages also. lol.
The thing that unsaved people forget is that, during the learning curve of christlikeness there are bound to be some areas that surface within the christians life that they want to hold onto. Fill in your own blanks here.
Some of these areas may not be overly harmful but some may lead to backsliding or a hypocritical christian lifestyle.
For those that seek God, He will be found of them. For those who have been worn down in the constant battle over repeating sin they may fall away or will either have 'up their game' (eventually). Although as a christian learns, struggles or battles we need to uplift them and not do as the world does: point fingers and lay blame, which is what some non believers do here all the time.. "whatsoever they judge by, they will be judged by".. so as they lay blame and point the finger, so will God on their day. So not only are these criticizers wrong but they intensify their own judgment. Do ye not these things also? How shall they stand on the great and mighty day of the Lord.
This is the one that gets me the most. The unyielding, judgemental nature of some Christian stands leads me to worry that if there is a moment when one steps before God in judgement, they will be dealt with as harshly as they have spoken to their fellow man. I'm sure you have a different take on this. But constantly sharing the opinon (as some do on this site) that there is no reward in heaven for someone labeled an unbeliever, to me implies that the one described as Man's Mediator might take that into account when ticking off the sins of the one labeled a believer. I could be wrong, of course. But it is a niggle of a worry in the back of my head when I see it said.
But, you have to concede the point that these arguments are all about pointing the finger, on both sides of the argument. I have rarely seen anything that warrants the label of dialogue. We are all to blame for that.
From yourself, I can only take that as a compliment.
The contradiction is only in the fact that those who call themselves Christians do not follow their own teachings.
And yet we see evidence here on these forums of the most self-professed faithful who have been divorced. Seems your claim is false.
It would appear your argument is not with me but with those who "have a weak stand in christ".
How shall YOU stand on the great and might day of Allah, Zeus, Thor, etc. etc. etc.?
Yes, you have shown that in spades here.
Sorry, but I can't understand that word salad. What are you talking about?
why am i not surprised. Easier sentences that this have left your head spinning. take a deep breath and try to spend time trying to understand it. Its not over your head, its in english. Read s l o w l y and try to concentrate.
Of course I listen to my God, He knows everything.
Why wouldn't I listen to Him?
I was raised in a christian environment that believed in abstinence and looked down on moderation. I understand why they had this stand, but moderation is balance. Even abstinence, when doggedly adhered to, is a form of addiction, by my observation; if it causes an imbalance in your view of your fellow man. I think understanding what constitutes moderation for a person, as the individual, is important to determine before you can begin to find peace within yourself. This differs hugely, from individual to individual.
Islam's Perspective on Moderation:
Allah SWT enjoins in the Holy Qur'an:
"Thus have We made of you an Ummah, Justly balanced, that you might be witnesses over the nations. "
~Quran (2: 143)
-"Those who, when they spend, are not extravagant and not niggardly,But hold a just balance between
those extremes….." (25: 67)
-"……..neither speak your prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between."
"And swell not your cheek (for pride) at men, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loves not the arrogant boaster. And be moderate in your pace, and lower your voice; for the harshest of sounds without doubt is the braying of the ass."
"O you who believe! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but Commit no excess: for Allah loves not those given to excess." (S.5: 87)
A Confucian perspective on Moderation:
Confucius in his book “Doctrine of Mean” explain the point of mean ”Moderation” in the following manner
How it was that few were able to practice the Mean.
1. The Master said, "I know how it is that the path of the Mean (Moderation) is not walked in:-- The knowing go beyond it, and the stupid do not come up to it. I know how it is that the path of the Mean (Moderation) is not understood:-- The men of talents and virtue go beyond it, and the worthless do not come up to it.
Their contrary conduct shows men's ignorance of the course and nature of the Mean.
The Master said "Men all say, 'We are wise;' but being driven forward and taken in a net, a trap, or a pitfall, they know not how to escape. Men all say, 'We are wise;' but happening to choose the course of the Mean (Moderation), they are not able to keep it for a round month.
3. "When one cultivates to the utmost the principles of his nature, and exercises them on the principle of reciprocity, he is not far from the path. What you do not like when done to yourself, do not do to others.
The superior man's embodying the course of the Mean (Moderation) is because he is a superior man, and so always maintains the Mean (Moderation). The mean man's acting contrary to the course of the Mean is because he is a mean man, and has no caution."
Break the indoctrination, do yourself a huge favor.
Thanks for the advice. An atheist, hiding behind the avatar of a pantheist, running around in search of theists leaves me confused as to your objective; but good advice nonetheless.
You are, truly, in a foul mood today. Ok by me, but I still say you are not being very nice. I don't ignore advice. I think about it. Sorry, not interested in being a clone.
No, I am not. But, I do understand why you would make that false assumption.
Sorry. I'm simply tired of all the conflict. All the way around. I only come back, again and again, because this place is full of unheard voices. They truly are unique. Everybody has pondered this, few have written anything on it. It is (the obvious drawbacks noted) very very interesting. One day I'll roll my eyes and go someplace else. For now, I'm listening to everyone and talking way too much, I know. But if I don't throw ideas out there I can't get the input I think I need.
You should therefore break your indoctrination and end the conflict.
You are throwing out indoctrinated beliefs, not ideas. We've pretty much heard them all, for the most part.
Who is we? I'm very confused on what anyone's possible credentials are in this place. It seems to me it is little more than a bunch of confused people yakking, for the most part. Don't get me wrong. I'm learning a lot, whether you can understand that or not, but I have to box everything within the confines of the fact that there is little chance most of us are doing anything more than sharing opinions. I would hope anyone with a higher purpose than trying to understand what the heck is going on would be doing some good elsewhere.
Sure, there are sane opinions and there are insane opinions being shared here. Take your choice.
Why in the world do you think I keep talking to you? But you have to concede the point that being sane does not equate to being right in the final analysis.
The conflict within the cluttered mind, as you put it.
Yes, I'm sure we can find examples of the insane being right in the final analysis.
I never said you were, but you now have the choice to be or not to be, that is the question.
I suppose it depends on one's definition of crazy. Yours and mine may be different.
Sorry, but I never tend to define words to suit an agenda, I use the common definitions.
And, I do understand that believers constantly redefine words to suit their purposes.
Now Beelzedad. You know perfectly well that you can easily find two different psychologists with opposing opinions about the sanity of any given individual. I don't redefine words any more than you do. If it is pointed out to me that my understanding of a definition of any word is wrong I quickly move to admit my mistake. This is what can be maddening about following a conversation with you. This is not a point worthy of argument.
True, but I can find a lot more who will agree with each other over their diagnoses, especially of the insane.
But, you just said, "...one's definition of crazy. Yours and mine may be different."
Why maddening? Do you not like using words that have defined meanings? What's the problem, exactly?
I was reared in a Presbyterian church that stressed moderation in several areas, including drinking alcohol and eating. It also taught tolerance and forgiveness.
I was raised in the Afrocuban religion, or Santeria as they call it here. After my mother died, I decided it was time to move on since it didn't make much sense to me and I was only part of it to keep the family tradition. I've remained attached to the spiritual practices (communicating with spirits) but with a different approach... I don't channel spirits, have an altar, or do any kind of ceremony. I just keep my ears and eyes open for any kind of spiritual encounter that I might have.
And I have a little voodoo doll that looks just like Einstein. I poke it every once in a while, give it a little shake and squeeze... then take it to the Everglades with me!
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