Were Neanderthals Saved?

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   Disappearingheadposted 12 years ago

   It has been established by genetic inquiry that Neathderthals were a different species from Homo Sapiens, but possessed large brains, perhaps a culture, and possibly speech. There have been a few reconstructions from skulls that result in an appearance not so far removed from ours.
   
   Thus it is conceivable that they had a concept of God, right and wrong. Did Jesus die for Homo Sapiens only?

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      pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      well if u go by OT....god doesnot care for any other species...God brought flood right?...now why he brought flood?...because of sinful humans right?...then why the hell GOD KILLED ALL OTHER ANIMALS?...story says he did ask noah to take one pair from each speices...but hey why didnt god simply wipe out human species and spare animals?...so going by loving nature of god , it looks like he cares a damn about other species and jesus died for home sapiens only...
      
      writers of bible neither had means nor developed science to even know that species like neanderthals or dinosaur existed....they would have had covered them if they knew...infact their world was very limited...

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         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Mmmm. According to remains found, Neanderthal died out before the flood, so I wouldn't expect them to figure in the flood story.

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            Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            LOL according to the remains found they died out before god created the universe

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            jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That's a pity, really.  We might have inherited a bit more sense if the Neanderthals had survived for longer.  Did any of them ever live in the USA?

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            jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            The late Dave Allen, Irish comedian, was once addressing an American audience.  You remember how Dave was fearless in his humour?
            
            He said to the audience: "Think about all those animals, going into the Ark.  Two of every kind!  They must have produced enough dung in a few days to sink the boat!  Yet we know the boat did not sink, so they must have dumped that dung overboard somewhere.  Well, in 1492, Christopher Columbus discovered it!"
            
            I'm not personally agreeing or disagreeing with him, of course!

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               jonnycomelatelyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Only in good natured humour, sorry if it was out of place.  Absolutely no offense intended.

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                  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Columbus discovered the Bahamas. So, no offense here.

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      Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Isn't a species defined as a group of living beings that can interbreed? Wouldn't that mean they were the same species because they interbred?

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         Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Oh I don't know JWH, but according to the article that ATM posted on Neanderthal genetics, there is little evidence of interbreeding, although the possibility wasn't ruled out.
         
         I would suspect though that Homo Sapiens would have considered them inferior, maybe untouchable. I don't imagine that everyone was invited to the happy wedding between Mr. Homo Sapiens and Miss Neanderthal. More likely the Homo Sapiens ethnically cleansed them from the land much like Europeans did to the Native Americans.

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            jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            May be they were like tribes that co-exist today, with occasional wars. Living in the same habitat without intermingling. Every species has birth, aging and death just like its individual members, and it may be possible that they just died out. We and they are similar species and  have a common ancestor and inhabited a common area which will explain the apparent similarities in DNA.

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            Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Didn't they prove recently that humans did breed with neanderthals because europeans share their DNA while africans dont?

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               LewSethicsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I hate to point out what every one else seems to have forgotten, and that is that there are lowlifes alive right now that have sex with animals, and that is even though we have laws and social norms in place to curb such, um, appetites.
               Believe me when i say that homo sapiens, home neanderthalensis, and any other homo anything that was around in the far past was porking everything it could back into a corner.
               As far as the jesus saving cavemen:  why not?  They can burn in hell just like the rest of us.

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               Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Apparently there are a small number of genes that are similar between Europeans and Neanderthals but none between Africans and Neanderthals.
               
               Perhaps the Europeans raped and pillaged through their territory.

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         wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Good question but...are horses and donkeys the same species?  Lions and tigers?  I think there is more to it that simply breeding possibilities.

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            jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, they can interbreed and produce offspring that are sterile but has better qualities than either of the species.
            May be the specimen we got were hybrids but then they should've more similarities.

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               wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Oh I don't know - maybe we're just a hybrid, too.  Not all hybrids are sterile - once in a great while a fertile one comes along.  I've seen reports of fertile mules and aren't Ligers fertile?  They just don't reproduce because they smell wrong or something?
               
               A Neanderthal - Cro magnon fertile hybrid that lived with homo sapiens and reproduced with them the next 1000 generations.  Not much Neanderthal left.  We may be just another common mule!

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                  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I was thinking about it all the while and think that possibility is very remote. Humans were hunter gatherers at that time and they were not practising domestication or slavery. Even if they captured neanderthal females they most probably might have been killed and human tribes usually don't take back those who were on the 'other side'. So even if they manage to produce fertile offsprings the chances are rare that the offspring get a chance to breed.
                  Can it be the other way round, that instead of we getting their genes, they got our genes?

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                     wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     It is possible, though I would think very unlikely, that the two species lived in harmony and cooperation as one society at times.  Perhaps at "holy" places like hot springs or spring festivals.
                     
                     If the two were intermingled on a constant basis, such as slavery, I would expect to see lots more bone piles with both species, but I'm not aware of anything like that. 
                     
                     Somewhat of a puzzle, as we apparently do share DNA.

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                        couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't think they're two separate species. I think H.S. is an evolution of Neanderthal. In a sense though, if there were some less evolved, it'd be like marrying your cousin and the results would be...well...some of the guys I've dated.
                        
                        Man was developing at different rates all across the globe and in different ways because of the geology of their specific region.

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      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The neanderthals had venuses (female stautues, believed to represent fertility), their religions were thus, most likely very primitive, at least by jesus' time.

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         Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Aren't all religions primitive?

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            mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Religions these days create primitives, they cast out reasoning, accountability and logic, then replace it with beliefs in sky fairies and what not, rejecting sound, scientifically accurate, rational information.

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               couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               m - I'm really suprised that you discount instinct in favor of scientific rationale. As a person who's studied many forms of religion and meditation, I would think you'd hold the senses as high as the sciences.

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                  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I tend to think of religion as being a problem, it's the tennants of religions that may be useful. It then depends on the individual and it's not like I've never met an intelligent theist. The illogical part, is the belief that anything we hold as true is outside of the self.

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                     Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Don't You think that everything within self is based upon self perseption.
                     Except for the biological aspects and even that is greatly affected by attitude?

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         Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Those fertility statues were made by modern man...not neanderthals. LOOK IT UP.

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         couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         mischeviousme - The Neanderthals probably did not have female statues or any statues. They had barely learned to chisel a fine point on stone so they could pierce the thick skins of animals. They were not making any kind of advanced cave art and certainly weren't making statues unless you mean they threw a bear skin onto one of their fellows and worshipped it like a statue.
         
         Writings ans signs and metal and ornaments didn't come about until the Neolithic Age, around 10,000 years ago (I think).
         
         Mesopotamia was supposedly the seat of civilization, around 4,000 years ago and it's likely that this is where real art forms began since some men now had leisure time due to the ability to produce surplus food to support priests and craftsmen who did tasks other than farming.

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            LewSethicsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            On the contrary, there is neanderthal drawing depicting two seals at Spain's Nerja caves, dated at 43,000 years ago. 
            Mesopotamia is a made up word for a place that never existed.
            The pyramids are older than 4000 years, so so much for your timeline.
            The truth is that we are only starting to put history together, and most of what we think is ancient history was pieced together in the late 19th century by people with an ax to grind regarding the evolutionary process and the age of the world itself.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There were other species of hominids that are now extinct, not just Neanderthals.

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   CMHypnoposted 12 years ago

   According to the Max Planck Institute who mapped the Neanderthal genome, modern humans share around 2-4% DNA with Neanderthals
   
   http://www.mpg.de/914714/Neandertal

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      wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's a little confusing; don't we share about 95% with chimps?
      
      Sounds like maybe 4% of our genes come directly from Neanderthals and we share far more through other ancestors, though I haven't a clue how that would be determined.

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      couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      CMH - That is interesting. I wonder if there are any DNA statistics on HomoSapiens and Peking Man. At least 600,000 years before Peking Man, man was found to be standing erect and making tools. That was about 1.6 million years ago, long before the Bible's Adam and Eve created sin. So, IMO, these were not considered God's best work, or even human.

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         jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         God might have been trying selective breeding!

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            Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            All animals, including humans, were a direct result of millions of years of climate change and evolution. The one basic thing that separated present humans from the Neanderthals, besides DNA, was that present humans have the ability to create and imagine. From this ability, art, improved shelters, agriculture, and religion were invented.

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               couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               That's the way I read it, too. Except that Neanderthal was sort of creative beyond those that came before him as witnessed by his more advanced stone tools, giving him the ability to use skins for clothes. They developed a cult of animal worship and supposedly considered the bear sacred. They were also the first, supposedly, to place food and tools with their dead. So they had a sense of an afterlife whether religious or not.

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                  Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Humans (both primative and modern) and most monkeys are the few animals that actually recognize death. Not familiarwith Neanderthal's animal worship or any idea of an afterlife.

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   Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago

   Apparently racism was nothing new during the time Neanderthals and cro-magnon man coexisted.  Long before the christian god was invented by man.  Okay to boink, but not someone you bring home to mamma.  Sound familiar? 
   
   
                                          

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   BLACKANDGOLDJACKposted 12 years ago

   Neanderthals have been reincarnated as atheists.

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      wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That would indicate that they were far more able "problem solvers" than their opponents; you would think that they, not homo sapiens, would be the dominant species today as that seems to be a function of intelligence.
      
      Or perhaps the Cro-Magnon were the Israelites?

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   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   Neanderthals buried their dead, often placing flowers and pretties (shells, stones etc.) in the grave.

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      Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There is one single gene that is found only in man.

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   WD Curry 111posted 12 years ago

   Jesus redeemed the whole creation.

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   pisean282311posted 12 years ago

   @dis u wont find dinosaur and neanderthals is any of religious stories....because those who wrote this stories didnt know that such species even existed...cant fault jesus or moses or muhammad for it...during their time they where not equipped to know about them and so their knowledge of creation was based on ideas which they where exposed to and so they didnt include important species like dinosaurs and neanderthals in it...understandable...isnt it?...in end all three where mere humans and faith of their followers made them something else...

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