HUB TITLE ON NICHE SITE WAS SNIPPED AND VIEWS HAVE FALLEN

1. 96

   sallybeaposted 7 years ago

   
   My most recent hub was Snipped and given a new short title by staff which does not  properly reflect the contents of the hub.  Views have been negatively impacted and have not picked up after the change.   I want to change the title back to what it was.  I wrote to staff but received no reply   Can I change the title or will it be removed from the Niche site if I do so?

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I was recently in touch with Robin who informed me that the team is buried in work and thus has been overly slow to respond to emails.  It took about a week until I heard from her about an issue I had emailed to them.  So, plan accordingly.

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         sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I can imagine how snowed up they are and appreciate that Robin took the time to join this discussion.  Thank you.

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2. 96

   chef-de-jourposted 7 years ago

   It will be interesting to note the HP staff reply - I think niche hubs that falter or fail and perform less well should be put back to their original status by the author. Or at least the author should be given the choice. Hubs that lose traffic in any of the new niches kind of undermine the whole purpose of the project.

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      theraggededgeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Personally, I wouldn't wait. It's your hub, edit it as you wish.

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         kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I am on board with theraggededge, it is your hub, sallybea. You wrote it so whatever is done or not done to it starts and stops with you. (Do you like my "cover-all-my-bases" answer?)

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         1. 96

            sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I like it but I was brought up to consider the opinions of others too, even if I don't necessarily agree with them.  Hopefully they will consider my views too.

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               kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               sallybea, there is NO way that you could ever be called a troublemaker. I appreciate you very much.

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                  sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I try hard not to be.

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                     kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     sallybea, you just didn't try. You succeed everyday. And I appreciate your cool, laid-back style of addressing issues and such. And thanks for all of the help that you have given me.

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                        sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        You are very welcome Kenneth, have a terrific week-end

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                           kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           sallybea, it is nearing my dinner time. I have one more thing to share with you. Each of the comments I made to you and those in the future ARE from my heart. I am not about cheap, superfluous words only to gain something from someone.
                           I am "old school" everyday. And tell it like I see it.
                           And I count you as one of my closest allies/friends.
                           Kenneth
                           See? I even signed this.

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                           1. 96

                              sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              Thanks Kenneth:)

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                                 kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 you are welcome.

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                                 1. 92

                                    Jean Bakulaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                    Hi Sallybea,
                                    The team changed one of my titles too, one where I interpret the meanings of a 78 card obscure tarot deck from the 1970s (it was a feminist deck). I had so much material, it became a series of 8 hubs. But they chose one part about 1/3 through the deck, and left part of my title, then called it "The last 7 cards." That was just flat out wrong, and would confuse anyone using the pieces to learn to read the deck, my reason for writing the hubs in the first place.
                                    
                                    They say they want us to write about what we know, what we are experts in. So I returned to my original title, and also left their (last 7 cards) in, as any tarot deck is split into 4 suits, court cards and I had 3 hubs on the Major arcana cards. It was the 3rd hub on those 21 cards they changed, but I tried to keep what I wanted and please them too. I have concerns, as I write in series, and already they are leaving whole hubs out that make a cohesive whole.
                                    
                                    I would say stick with your own title, you know your topic and your original intent for writing the hub. I am seeing a bit more traffic with the hubs that have been moved, I have about 15. Good luck.

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                                       sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                       Hi Jean,
                                       I would suggest that you write to Robin and explain the situation or post the link here as she suggested.   I think they will see things your way.  I doubt they are experts in your field or mine but I do know that they have always in the past responded to any issues I have had.

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                                       1. 92

                                          Jean Bakulaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                          Hi Sallybea,
                                          I did write in, but apparently they are overwhelmed with mail, I haven't had an answer yet. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

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   2. 96

      sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I agree and since I am the one who has expertise on the subject I feel better equipment to know what people might be searching for.  Whilst I understand that they want short titles, a short title does not tell one enough in this case.  I am going to give it until the end of this week for them to come up with a reply, failing which, the title is going back to what it was or I will put it on my own website.

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   3. 96

      sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Not only has traffic fallen but the hub score has gone from the high 90's to the mid-80's.  I will never understand a score system especially if it can change like that so quickly.

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3. 71

   makingamarkposted 7 years ago

   It's your content and your title. If that's the one you want then change your own content back to the way you want it.
   
   There are IMO far too many so-called "editors" with far too little experience of the sector in which they snip!
   
   If you are the expert you do whatever you think is best....

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      sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I think I understand my craft and also how I might look for an know how to hub such as this one if I were looking for one.

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4. 89

   SimeyCposted 7 years ago

   I'd give it a day or two - all the hubs I had snipped and transferred to a niche were down for two to three days and now are up - in many cases by over 100%. It'll take time to get re-indexed in the search engines.

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   1. 96

      sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I have given it nearly two weeks now.

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5. 86

   Robinposted 7 years ago

   Hi Sally.  Thanks for posting, and I'm sorry we haven't gotten to your email yet.  We are behind on the team inbox, and I'm sure it would have eventually been sent to me.  I don't think the title is what has caused a drop in your traffic since most of your traffic to this particular Hub is not from google. In fact, it looks like HubPages is where most of your traffic comes from, so perhaps it was just a change in the way the Hub was displayed in related Hubs.  I can look into it for you.
   
   As for your title, we have heard multiple times from the horse's mouth to make titles conversational.  Your title as it was before was not conversational, and I think it is much better now.  We have done a lot of research and training in this area—the staff that changes titles are very careful not to remove keywords that are resulting in search traffic.  If I were you, (and it would be really helpful to us) I would edit titles that are not conversational and remove any pipes or slashes and reduce your keywords.  I'm happy to give you guidance if you want to post the Hub and its title here. 
   
   For example, here's your old title:  How to Wet Felt Dreads/ Make a Chemo Hat / Newborn Photo Prop / Free TutorialHat with Wet Felt Dreads
   
   New title:  How to Make a Hat with Wet Felt Dreads
   
   Your old title is keyword stuffed.  This could really hurt you (as well as other Hubs on FeltMagnet) and is overall a bad practice. The new title is clean and conversational.  Now, if you were getting traffic for "chemo",  "newborn",  or "free tutorial" we would make sure that it was either in the title or that it was in one of the subtitles; since you weren't we didn't include any of those keywords in the title.  Google is much more savvy than it use to be and we don't need to be so overt in our keywords.  This is one of the main things we are doing in Basic Editing—removing keyword stuffing in subtitles and in the text.  We would gladly welcome Hubbers to do this on their own since our backlog is fairly large.  Plus, it would increase your chances of moving to a niche domain without us editing it first, which means that you don't have to wait. 
   
   Your Hubs are so fantastic with your original photos and expertise.  I hope this explanation with titles is helpful. 

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   1. 96

      sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Robin,
      I appreciate your explanation but don't agree with it.  If I were looking for a felting tutorial the first two words which come to mind are 'free tutorials' and 'wet felting'.
      This hub was different in as much as it was intended to be made for people undergoing chemo.
      Firstly, I explain how to make dreads which could be used by anyone who like to wear dreads..  Someone with cancer cannot attach dreads to their bald head, so a hat was devised for this purpose.
      I never think of my hubs as being 'stuffed' with keywords but rather I use the words which I would look for if I wanted to learn how to do something.  I would always include free, wet felting and the item I am making, such as a flower.
      This item is unique, no-one would even think of looking for a hat with dreads because no-one has thought of making one before.   This is my concept and I don't think the title covers all the bases. 
      The traffic might even be my own, since I have tweeting it, pinned it etc., to try to promote the hub.  There is no way for me to differentiate between my own views and those on Google.
      Are you telling me I have to change all my titles before they are moved to a niche site?
      Would this hub be moved back to the mother site if I changed the title?
      I understand I don't know the first thing about keyword stuffing or SEO but I do understand what I would look for if I were wanting to learn something about wet felting and this title does not cover the basics.

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         skearposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Honestly I have to agree with Robin, the original title was keyword stuffed and not something that would perform well with Google in my opinion.  I think her suggestion was much closer to what someone would actually type into Google. 
         
         You could still include those other keywords within the contents of the hub if its something you're trying to rank for.  Personally I don't worry about keywords much anymore though.  I try to write useful content in a natural voice and let Google take care of the rest.

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      makingamarkposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I guess at the end of the day decisions taken by HubPages HQ must also be predicated on whether they would rather:
      1) keep the content and the original title or
      2) revise the title (and/or any other significant content) and lose the content.
      
      I'm not suggesting for minute that Sally shouldn't have changed the title now we know what it was. It does after all seem rather a long one and I really don't get the newborn reference at all!
      
      However bottom line the principle is that it is HER TITLE - it's not now and never will be owned by HubPages.
      
      I do think significant changes to hubs (eg titles) should be done with the consent and validation of the author - who is after all the author and the COPYRIGHT OWNER.
      
      I'm sure an explanation for changes would go a very long way with most folks when explaining recommendations for author agreement or otherwise.
      
      It's just a pity they've not been forthcoming before.........

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         sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Newborn was used in relation to the photographing of newborn babies in headgear which is worn specifically for a photoshoot.  This might be ribbons, flowers, dreadlocks.,
         I agree that the title is long but fortunately I learned something today.  We so often frustrated by the fact that sometimes we made an error in the original URL and could not change it.  Fortunately if I google this subject now, I am stuck with my original URL still showing on the first page of google in spite of putting the new one into google.  Perhaps Google is not so clever after all.  So folks if you want a long title which will never disappear, choose one to write the hub and then change it immediately afterwards to a short one.  This way you get both titles you want in a round about way:)   I am only joking folks.

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6. 86

   Robinposted 7 years ago

   Can you give me a title suggestion for this Hub, Sally?  I'm happy to discuss it.  It's a great learning opportunity all around.  Just as a note, I believe that you are not intentionally keyword stuffing.  However, so many others in the online world do stuff their titles and your intentions are not taken into consideration by Google.  Unfortunately, you have to adapt your titles accordingly, and we need to safeguard our niche sites from the keyword stuffing (even if it's unintentional). 

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   1. 96

      sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Robin,
      If I use this one
      'How to wet felt dreadlocks for a chemo hat'   It comes up on the top line of google and fortunately I can still see the original URL so if I am to use a shortened title this might work well for me.
      I appreciate this lesson but could you please also answer the questions I posed earlier.  I think most people would like to know whether hubs which are changed back to their original title will be moved back to the mother site?  Also will my hubs only be moved when I have shortened their titles?

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         Robinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         That title sounds great to me!  I would title case it though:  How to Wet felt Dreadlocks for a Chemo Hat
         
         Sorry that I didn't answer your other questions:
         1.  Your Hub could be defeatured if you change back a snip edit.  At this point, we aren't moving Hubs back to HubPages. It is also likely that we will not trust your Hubs on other niche domains if you are changing back snip or HubPro edits.  If you feel very strongly that you want to add something back, I would either post something in the forums or email us.  An update to a title like the one you suggested above is fine to do without contacting us, and of course, we would love for you to continually update and improve your Hubs.  What we don't want is Hubbers adding back spammy elements.  This is a big red flag for us. 
         2.  Your titles will likely be snipped before moving to a niche domain.  If you could edit them before that, we would really appreciate it.  If you have keyword stuffing in the subtitles, right now, they will be sent to editing, which delays your move to a new domain.  As I said before, try to make your titles conversational and remove pipes or slashes. 
         
         Google will eventually update your title in SERPs.  It might take a few days, but it is not something to worry about.  You should be editing titles and content if they need it!

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            sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Robin,
            Thanks, I will do that then and I will do some work on my other titles.
            I really do appreciate your help and thank you so much for answering my questions.  This has been an informative excercise which should benefit all of us.
            
            Well I never!
            My Hub score just crept up 5 points, must have done something right!

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         kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         @ sallybea,
         And would you please let me know the answers too?

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            sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Robin has answered the questions above in a very satisfactory manner.  We might not like some of the changes but at least we can go forward now with a little knowledge and confidence in the future..

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         Greensleeves Hubsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Sally; I've been following this topic with interest (including comments posted subsequent to the one above). I can well understand your irritation with the change to your title given the very specific theme of your hub - a theme which you were aware of, but which the editor seemed much less sensitive to. However I guess the original title was a bit convoluted, and your revised title which simply reintroduces the 'chemo hat' reference is a good compromise.
         
         I've had my own issues with this, which I may raise in an e-mail to Robin. I've had four hubs 'snipped' - two I've left alone for now, but one I've largely changed back (which took some time to do) because the presentation just didn't look as good after snipping. The fourth hub is particularly relevent, as my title was shortened (by just four words) in a way which makes it less accurate than it was before. I have temporarily left that alone, but may revert back to the original title in due course.
         
         It's good that Robin has corresponded with you and it seems you've reached a very satisfactory conclusion. I've no doubt the process is being undertaken with good intentions and that the general goal based on experience and knowledge of Google requirements is to increase traffic to the hub - vital to both the hubber and to HubPages. But to have a piece of your own copyrighted work altered without prior consultation is intensely irritating, and needs to be handled with the utmost sensitivity by the staff.

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            sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Hi Allun,
            
            Thank you for your input to what has been a very interesting exercise. 
            
            Clearly, a compromise was necessary and was accepted by both parties.
            I am relieved as it has helped me to iron out some of the issues which have troubled me for some time. 
            
            Whilst I never like my work being tampered with I know that if I was to write a book, an Editor would definitely request changes along the way.   I don't see this as being that much different. 
            
            It was nice of Robin to give me the opportunity to make the final decision myself and approve it.  I appreciate that.
            
            I have as a result made further changes to some of my titles and will continue to do so.  I will also review the Stats as they become available to me.

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               makingamarkposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Having been an author (for a major publisher of art books) and having had requests for changes made or suggested I also had the power as the author to reject them. Albeit I had to come up with a compromise to address the issue they were concerned about.
               
               If I'd actually left all the Editor's suggested edits "stand" in my book it would be one I was completely ashamed of - and inaccurate to boot!
               
               Editors might edit for English but they can't edit for content unless they know the topic as well as the author.
               
               The issue here (and everywhere else) is that the content is owned - copyright and all - by the author. It's not commissioned - it is OWNED.
               
               The process should be that the issues are identified CLEARLY (i.e. no guessing what the problem is) and then the author asked to address them.  Only if the author fails to play by the rules (and this also needs to be pointed out CLEARLY) should any over-arching edit be made or asked for.

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                  sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  You make a good point and I agree but in the end a compromise was reached and thank goodness it is only the title.

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                     makingamarkposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Agreed.
                     
                     However the principle is still important and applies to everybody - hence why I raised it.

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                        sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Thank you.

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               kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               sallybea,
               I have to confess that my question about this snipping thing is far less important than anyone's question so far, but in some of my hubs that was snipped, I viewed the HP Snipe Editors' edited version of the hub in question and I found that a lot of my text was deleted, but no explanation as to why it was deleted.
               Is this not being fair to the writer?
               I am not being obtuse, but hey, in my hubbing style, taking out one or 100 lines is not going to do but one thing: Shorten the piece.
               And what good is that to HP or the writer?

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               1. 96

                  sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  That is interesting.  So far I have only had Titles altered and one E-Bay ad snipped.  I think there is a difference between snipping and having an Edit done by a Pro.  One I think is done by a computer and the other by a Human.
                  Personally I would have to look at whether the content removed was an essential part of the writing.  It might be in this case that less is more!Perhaps Robin can come in here and offer her expertise.

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                     kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Okay. Tell Robin that the hub was:
                     "Place Where You Never Talk to Yourself," and if the color coding is correct, the Pinkish part of the lower hub was deleted.

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                        sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Hopefully, she will see this post as she suggested that people do the same as I did but not sure if it will be before or after the weekend.

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                           kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           My sincere thanks, sallybea!

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                           1. 96

                              sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              

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                     2. 71

                        makingamarkposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        what I found interesting in the one of mine which was HubProd and snipped was that it wasn;t obvious what the changes were at first glance - other than that virtually all the Amazon modules had gone
                        
                        I then found there was another way of looking at it which showed you the pink bit which showed text which had been deleted.
                        
                        Anyway - I take exception to being edited without consent and the hub was archived and then deleted - and is now on its way into one of my new websites!

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                           sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           I found the same, though I also realised that the snipped ads were at the bottom of the page.  I and HubPages will miss the income realised from the ads.
                           It seems to me to be a shame to lose good material to another site because a compromise can't be reached here between consenting and non-consenting adults.  Now would be as good time as any to encourage them to stay.

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7. 86

   Robinposted 7 years ago

   @kenneth.  It looks like images were snipped in that Hub—no text was removed.  It wasn't HubPro Basic or Premium edited. I think the images were snipped because of the prominent watermark on the image. 

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      kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      @ robin, thanks for your prompt reply. I have been in my shop most of the day building birdhouses, so this makes me feel great. HP used to post a Yellow Warning with Black background Prior to us hitting "publish now" so we could adjust/delete images with such trouble.
      Honestly, there are not many websites that do not have photos I love to use that do not have watermarks.
      Do you work for HP? If so, I think you are doing a great job. And so is Camille and Christy!

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         paradigmsearchposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Kenneth, you might find this useful: http://hubpages.com/about/team

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            kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            paradigmsearch,
            "Thank you very, very sincerely."

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            kenneth averyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            paradigmsearch,
            "Thank you, very, very much." "I would not mind one bit getting to work with this HP team."

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   janderson99posted 7 years ago

   An interesting observation contrary to HP' current policy of snipping ALL links from pages shifted to the new sites.
   
   Gary Illyes, Google
   
   I'm really angry at news sites that don't link back any more to smaller publications or blogs, or sources, or whatever, because they are probably afraid of linking back, which is stupid. They are likely fearful that the link may hurt them for some reason. The Internet is built upon links. Links are essential for the Internet.
   
   Source:
   https://www.seroundtable.com/google-im- … 22041.html

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      makingamarkposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The HubPages attitude to links has always been very narrow-minded IMO
      
      It's not as if Google has ever tried to bury Wikipedia is it?
      
      Snipping the links from one of my hubs is the reason I instantly unpublished it and have started moving it to a new site
      
      The links are part of the reason my sites are well regarded. However I develop compendiums of information and their rationale and design follow a completely different model to the one that HubPages thinks works. Hence HubPages is not enamoured with my hubs and is not racing to include them in the new sites - for which I am grateful.
      
      I know my compendium pages with "lots of links" work elsewhere because I have the traffic and stats to prove it. I've always believed in looking at your stats and following what works....

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