Hillary Clinton and Congressional Investigations.
In a criminal court of law, the presumption of innocence prevails until the defendant is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil court of law, the defendant is innocent until the preponderance of evidence proves otherwise.
In Hillary Clinton's myriad of congressional investigations, she is assumed guilty until proven innocent. This makes the investigation open-ended and at the mercy of the Republican congress until they are satisfied. They may never be satisfied and this farce could go on forever, while wasting millions of the tax payer dollars. Instead, the Republican congress should be doing their job as lawmakers, not trying to prove someone guilty ad infinitum to the point of diminishing return.The idea of innocent until proven guilty died a long time ago. Today you are not even innocent after being found not guilty (just as OJ).
Not a court of law of course, but when the head of the FBI reports over a hundred instances of criminal activity on her emails is there any doubt? Can you possibly believe that the preponderance of evidence is not on the "guilty" side? That she refused to follow internal rules dictating that ALL official business be on govt servers is also irrefutable.
Much harder to say on the matter of "pay to play" because of the sensationalism and lies, but that preponderance is getting awfully close and even the "beyond reasonable doubt" doesn't seem far off.
The murders she is claimed to have orchestrated are nonsense at this point and will almost certainly remain that way.
That she used political influence to sic the IRS on opponents is iffy, but definitely possible. That she didn't know of the rigging of the DNC is beyond belief even if she didn't directly participate in it.
That she stole items from the White House is beyond any reasonable doubt; she returned much of it and paid for most of what she didn't return.
Benghazi - that her actions caused the deaths is almost certainly false - the preponderance falls on her side. That she made gross errors that very much contributed to those deaths is irrefutable whether she could have prevented them or not or whether those actions were to the level of negligence or not.
And we should stop all investigations and let her go on the way she is? I think not, any more than the lawsuits against Trump College should all be dropped.Fascinating how after countless investigations and no charges you can say "guilty" yet there have been numerous occasions on these forums where you have vehemently defended alleged rapists and alleged murderers, including some where video of the offense is pretty damning. Seems contradictory to me, but perhaps you have a logical explanation?
What about YOU? Do you accept the word of the FBI that she put 100 classified emails on her personal server or do you think the FBI is lying?
Do YOU think she stole furniture, etc. from the White House? That someone else smuggled it back it and she voluntarily took the fall?
Do you think she used a private server in violation of the rules for official emails, or did the FBI lie again about finding thousands of those?
That's evidence, IMO, and more than enough to keep me from voting for someone that thinks they are above the law. A common thief for president, yet!
Your reference to rapists and murderers, with phone videos that could have easily been tampered with - I defended none of them and if you go back and look you will find that. I defended the system which we have in place to determine guilt, and I defended their right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. Not once did I ever declare their innocence OR guilt until after a trial.
Well, Clinton IS guilty. Some by her own admission and others by the word of the FBI - a word that has not been disputed by either her or congress and that I accept as true unlike the friends and relatives of the "murderer". The ONLY question is whether she is guilty merely of not following the rules everyone else has to, or whether there was provable, criminal guilt (the rules part is still being debated and she may still lose there). What I heard was that the FBI gave the recommendation based on their interpretation that she had to do it intentionally and that is almost impossible to prove. Personally I think it would be impossible - it would be against astronomical odds to have 12 random jurors in this country who were all willing to hand Trump the nomination whatever she did.
That's like a jury I served on recently: 11 "guilty" votes, 1 "not guilty" because she didn't know the intent of the car thief when he stole it from the rental yard - she questioned whether he intended to return it or not and without knowing felt that she could not vote for auto theft. Same theory behind Clinton's guilt - without the ability to read her mind some will find any excuse at all to find her "not guilty".Actually, I do believe she is guilty of most of those things to a certain extent. I also believe some of them have been blown way out of proportion.. Have you ever seen me spend much time defending her, other than against blatantly false assertions?
I also think she has done a lot of good in her public service career and that she is intelligent, poised, and will do a fine job as POTUS.She certainly has the art of being a politician down pat. And that's what scares me; she is all too willing to use her political power to further her aims, and I don't see her aims as being anything but personal power and gain.
Her theft of White House silverware is a gnat...until we look at what it says about the thief. That our First Lady tried to steal silverware is unthinkable. Her lack of concern over security probably did no damage...but the attitude that her personal convenience is more important to her than the security of the nation it is a different matter. That such an attitude could sit in the oval office, privy to ALL the secrets of our country, is a scary, scary thing. I probably don't take the security measures I should when online, but then I don't have the lives of 300 million people riding on it, either. She did and likely will again.
Trump has the same thing (bad attitude about some things), but without the power to make them happen. And he has a big plus in that his election might send a signal that the American voter is tired of politics the way it is being played. He is also coming to understand a little better the problems we face, just as Obama did. His grandiose plans hit file 13 as soon as that understanding came and so are Trumps. Reality is a mighty big opponent and will beat ignorance every time.
The last Benghazi probe, they found nothing new, but that doesn't stop Trey Gowdy, the republican head of the committee. He wants more investigations. When does it end?
The emails have been cleared by the head of the FBI and the Attorney General, but yet the Republican investigation wants more emails turned over to them and wants them made public, even though they have been changed from unclassified to classified. When is it going to stop?
As far as the white house silverware goes, many former first ladies have made the same mistake. She returned the goods. Conservative Logic = Therefore she is never to be trusted as POTUS.
If she is guilty of criminal offenses then hold a trial, instead of Kangaroo Court. So at least there is finality to this. The republicans don't want it to end, because it is a wonderful propaganda tool to defame her. The more people hear the same thing, the more their chances of believing it. It's called brainwashing. Even if she gets elected, it won't end. The republican propaganda machine will just continue to churn this stuff out. There are people who still believe Obama was born in Kenya, because they don't want to accept the truth. If they did, the machine would stop churning.Extreme Leftist Partisanship , that is where the Attorney General , The FBI and Homeland security have evolved to in THIS media conferences . Hillary's treasonous trust issues will defeat her and liberals know it well ! That is why the New political face of today is built solely upon lies , images , false flags and empty promise .
Every word Hillary even speaks is hollow and you know and except that . Hillary may be the second or third female presidential campaigner , but the first one convicted like her own husband of treasonous behavior , I see her tried for her felonies and disbarred just like him after November .
Leftists ,apparently , cannot tell a truth from a lie , or just don't care ! I say they don't care , it IS after all the greatest and most famous entitlement society of today ---so what are a few lies!"The emails have been cleared by the head of the FBI and the Attorney General,"
They sure were...with a statement that she committed criminal activities.
"but yet the Republican investigation wants more emails turned over to them"
And you find this unreasonable, given that the FBI said her emails were illegal?
"As far as the white house silverware goes, many former first ladies have made the same mistake."
Really? Other first ladies are known to have stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of things from the White House? Who would that have been and do you think they, too, made a "mistake" stealing more furnishings than my whole home is worth? (You do understand that coloring it by insinuating it was a mistake doesn't change that it was an intentional theft?)
"If she is guilty of criminal offenses then hold a trial"
Should have had a trial, yes. Unfortunately the immense political power of the Clinton gang prevented that - Bill twisted the AG's arm and made sure it wouldn't happen. Political power at it's best, and something we all like to see, isn't it? Money and power can free anyone if they just have enough of it.
"The republican propaganda machine will just continue to churn this stuff out."
Do you think so? We'll continue to have the FBI find that she has violated other laws, and continue to find more and more goods that she has stolen? How long, do you think, before even the AG is forced to take notice?
"There are people who still believe Obama was born in Kenya, because they don't want to accept the truth."
Right. They don't want to accept the truth. That Hillary Clinton is a common thief that violates regulations and laws by using a private server to put not only government correspondence on but classified material our enemies might find quite useful. The proof is made public and you go right on denying it. You may be the last person in the country to do so, but you go ahead and pretend it didn't happen.
Here's the response to that attitude, from a died in the wool liberal:
http://hubpages.com/politics/forum/1376 … ost2834685 If you're right and we continue to find (and prove) further illegal actions you may lose even her, though.
ahorseback is right this time - some people will deny the truth even after proof is given. They don't care what she has done - her transgressions from minor to major, are to be ignored because...well, there doesn't seem to be a valid reason, but they will be ignored anyway. So you keep on repeating she's innocent - somewhere you'll find someone that will call the FBI head a liar."Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she's un-trustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened had we not fought and made that happen." -House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA)
And now we have another one. This time it is collusion of the Clinton Foundation with the foreign entities and Hillary as Secretary of State. Or as Trump calls it "Pay to Play." There is no bigger play to pay actors than the powerful lobby groups and congress. Lobbyist working for big money interest and corporations fund congressmen for their re-elections. Congressmen then pass laws that benefit the lobbyist. Congressmen then become lobbyist. Who are the bigger Pay to Play actors?
So far, they have not found anything criminal in the Clinton Foundation. But that doesn't matter, because the republican party and now Trump and their blood hounds will not let go of this one either. Why? because as always, Hillary is presumed guilty until proven innocent, which she never will be, according to their game plan. Talk about denial!Here is the real story about the Clinton's and the White House furniture.
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-s … furniture/Yeah. The real story, from your link:
"gifts that donors complained had been earmarked for the White House permanent collection, not the Clintons' personal use"
"The statement offered no explanation for the apparent appearance of the gifts — which include sofas, a rug and a kitchen table with chairs — on both lists."
Funny how the White House administrative staff (with constant contact with the Clintons) recorded the same "gifts" as the Park Service (not under direct orders or supervision) did, isn't it?
"Why? because as always, Hillary is presumed guilty until proven innocent, which she never will be, according to their game plan."
Or maybe it's because if you really DO look into she will be found guilty - as guilty as she is of using her private server in violation of regulations and the law.Wilderness: Then why isn't she prosecuted in a criminal court of law, if she is so blatantly guilty? Oh I know it's because she is so well connected to the elites. After 30 years of trying to put down the Clinton's, why is there no evidence to bring her to trial? In 30 years of criminal activities, including the murdering of Vince Foster, why isn't the evidence brought forward in a trial by jury? Whey do we have to have these open-ended Republican congressional investigations where the accusers are in denial and are never satisfied with the outcome?
Here is what FBI Director Comey said about her emails.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ … andal.htmlI gave you reasons she isn't being prosecuted, but I'll go over them again.
1) In the opinion of the FBI, an intent to do wrong may be required. That is the prerogative of the AG to decide, but she abdicated her responsibility and gave it to the FBI instead.
(And here I'll give an opinion that it was already set up. That Bill's visit was nothing more than an excuse to abdicate that responsibility and shove it onto a fall guy - Comey in this case. He will take the fall for refusing to prosecute a known crime, not the AG.)
2)It seems likely that pressure was brought on the AG (Bill's stupid visit) as well as the FBI (seemed to me that he went as far in stating the obvious that her actions were illegal as it was prudent for him to go). I watched that report from Comey and it really did look like it was pulling teeth to get that "no prosecute" advice from him.
3) If (if) intent is necessary to prove, it will be very difficult. Given the financial and political resources of Clinton it is effectively impossible before a jury. That doesn't mean it wasn't illegal, it doesn't mean it wasn't dangerous, it doesn't mean anything but that a jury will not convict regardless of guilt or proof.
Your link bears this out: Comey waffled as much as possible, but the bottom line was "We should not prosecute because it's never been done and because no harm is known to have been done (meaning we don't know who hacked in and read that classified information). This while the Navy man is rotting in jail for doing much the same thing.
As a reason for not prosecuting (it's never been done) it has to be the worst excuse (not reason, excuse) ever made. Comey said there 110 instances of illegal activity, but we should not prosecute because it's never been done before! And you don't think there is something a little shady going on here and wonder why "accusers are in denial"! And all that doesn't even attempt to address the violation of procedure in using a private server for official business; just using it for classified information.
I don't personally care whether she is prosecuted or not (although she DID violate the law 110 times that we know of), but she should absolutely have any security clearance revoked for life. Punishment, without proof of any harm done, may not be the best road to take (although I will punished for speeding or DUI but causing no harm), but the attitude of "I can do as I wish regardless of requirements or laws" must not be allowed to continue. Not with someone privy to all security information the nation has.
I understand others are investigating those emails in reference to using a private server for official mail and refusing/failing to provide copies for future use. We know she did it - will she get off again and, if so, what will it mean for the future of that particular rule? I fully expect her to get off and I fully expect future violations (by others) to result in immediate discipline - do you have a prediction yourself?Wilderness: Here is why I think, she is not prosecuted. Because if they prosecute her, it sets a precedent to prosecute many others for their acts, like Bush, Cheny, and Rumsfeld lying about WMDs in Iraq. Or Colin Powell and Condeliza Rice using their private servers for official business when they were Secretary's of State. And the same thing goes for Benghazi, because here is what Bush's score card is on foreign embassies. You see this is all a big smoke screen to use Hillary as the scapegoat because there is too big a risk of republicans losing control of congress Just wait until they start proceedings on Trump University. That's why Comey said "
"While Comey said the FBI had found evidence of "potential violations" of federal law, which allows prosecutions involving negligence, he concluded that "our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case" and that "no charges are appropriate" because of the lack of precedent for prosecutions of such relatively minor violations. Said Comey: "We cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts." The FBI, Comey elaborated, had found no example of a prior prosecution ever having been brought in a classified-information case that did not involve intentional mishandling of material, "vast quantities" of mishandled information, evidence of disloyalty to the United States, or efforts to obstruct justice."
Using the corollary to your logic: Just because they didn't find her guilty, does not make her guilty.
Here is the link to Bush and Company:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter … ssies-and/You could be right, although I won't play the party patsy and say it's only the Republicans that might suffer as a result.
But you're funny: first it's that she is guilty of a crime but won't be prosecuted because of this or that. Followed by "Just because they didn't find her guilty, does not make her guilty."
Face it and give it up, peoplepower: she is guilty of a crime, we know she is guilty of a crime and she will get away with it anyway. Doesn't matter that she is Democrat; she is guilty in spite of that. Doesn't matter that it will and is helping Trump; she is still guilty. All the whining that she has been persecuted for years doesn't change her guilt. Complaining that her stealing of White House furniture was an innocent mistake doesn't help: she is still guilty. Your blonde goddess has feet of clay after all, whether the result is President Trump or not. It's been rare, but I have defended Clinton (notable the murder claims, but other silly things as well) but not this time. She is guilty, just as Comey said, and of considerably more than "carelessness".Wilderness: I'm not going to change your mind and you are not going to change my mind. Let's just leave it at that. The way I see it, Trump lies almost every time he opens his mouth. With the latest change in his campaign leadership, they are the puppeteers pulling his strings. He is changing his game plan, but Trump is still the same person that divided and conquered his opponents by using insults, defamation of character, and outrageous lies. That is the soul of this man. He is a con-artist and will say and do whatever it takes to get himself elected. This is what he said to win the black vote. This is the real Trump showing through.
"Look at how much African American communities are suffering from Democratic control. To those I say the following: What do you have to lose by trying something new like Trump? What do you have to lose?" he asked. "You live in your poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?"With this I can agree - You're not going to change my mind, not with the statements of illegal activity from the FBI, and I'm not going to change yours because you don't care what she's done. Your concern is not in knowing what Clinton did - it is solely in keeping Trump out of office and your comments here support that as the entire post is not about Clinton's guilt but about how horrible Trump is. Her transgressions and crimes are to be ignored because Trump is a horrible person.
As far as Trumps tactics, they are the same we've seen for years in our political races and the same as his opponent is using. Detestable, yes, but no different than anyone else.
But your last paragraph, the quote from Trump: is the picture he painted wrong? I know it is exaggerated (58% unemployed), but is the overall picture wrong? Do blacks have double the poverty rate of whites? Are predominately black schools generally as good as predominately white ones? Does black youth have double the unemployment as other races? The answer is "yes" in all cases, so what's the real problem? That he accuses Democrats of being the root cause? That he says they have nothing to lose by trying something else? Or just that it is Trump speaking and everything he says is to be demonized?I would say the real problem is that Trump has not explained the "something else" that he wants to try and how it would benefit African Americans in particular. Also, he has zero history of ever caring or acting upon any causes that would benefit the economically disadvantaged so I think it's going to be difficult for him to convince certain demographics that he is sincere and that he has concrete plans to create real opportunity and economic advancement. .
It almost doesn't matter does it? The plight of the poor (any race) has gotten worse over the last few decades under primarily democratic control and the entitlement philosophy - it's past time to do something beyond simply handing out money.
And yes, I know it's an exaggeration - that the "something else" could be worse than what we have. That's why I said it almost doesn't matter.
But I also know that the recession we just went through, worsening the position of both poor and middle class, had it's deepest roots in that entitlement philosophy - that everyone should be able to own a home whether they could afford one or not. It sounds wonderful - that we should ALL have the things we want - but it is a failed one as reality dictates otherwise.Well, we disagree on the root causes of the recession and the shrinking middle class, and the rest.... "eh."
Really? I didn't say anything about the shrinking middle class. Personally I think the roots of that is the greed of the consumer that put our manufacturing all overseas. The need to support millions of non-producers and those that produce only minimally. The materialistic outlook that has overtaken the country and is tied to overseas production. The entitlement philosophy that Uncle Sam must provide what we need instead of supplying it from local sources.
There are others, but that's a good start.
The deepest roots of the recession are in the housing industry and the requirements that banks make excessive numbers of loans they knew would not be paid back. And those requirements were rooted in the idea that everyone should be able to buy a house.Yes, I am familiar with your beliefs on economic issues.
Here's an example: In 2010 Obama told a group of students, "Young people will now be able to remain on their parents health insurance plan until age 26."
They cheered...they were happy to hear that mommy and daddy would still be taking care of them until age 26. That's not normal, well, it is in a socialist utopia. Instead of wanting to be adults, independent and enabled to stand on their own two feet, which should be the normal for mature adults. - Its the same socialist entitlement mentality...take care of me.
ObamaCare is failing...Wilderness: This video is for your dining and dancing pleasure. It was George W. Idea for everyone to own their own home. It was the repeal of the Glass Stegal Act by the republican congress that set the whole thing in motion. Glass Stegal prevented commercial banks and investment companies from commingling their assets. Gramm Leach Bliley replaced Glass Stegal, after Glass Stegal had been passed in 1933.
Free market enterprise without regulations allows for greed and corruption to run rampant and that is precisely what happened. Deregulation and free market enterprise is a great conservative value that gets us into trouble every time. Today we have the life-saving Epi-pens that use to cost $2.00, now cost $300.00, thanks to free market enterprise.
Free market enterprise is supposed to seek its own level. So that means if enough people die from not being able to afford the pens, the price will come down because the demand will also be much less. Welcome to the world of free market enterprise with deregulation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYvtvcBKgIQGlass–Steagall's 1999 repeal, was signed by then president Bill Clinton.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2% … _of_repeal
Something I have studied at length and the destruction it caused.
Hopefully, Trump will revise that, it could be the wise thing to do.
Trust me, I'm not defending a Bush! (same as a Clinton)
On Bill Clinton’s Inauguration Day, George H.W. Bush Left Him a Note in the Oval Office
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/06 … one-viral/
"George H.W. Bush left this magnanimous, bipartisan & dignified note for Bill Clinton on January 20, 1993." ~ James Cameron
I have heard people report that Bill C. took orders from Bush Sr., who announced the coming of the New World Order, and Bill Clinton reiterated something similar. They are Globalists, and on the same side...the rest has been theatrical drama to fool the masses. IMHO
Trump is not one of them, and they are all against him...hmm!
Because, he truly is an outsider of the corrupt politicians, NWO.Colorfulone: I know that Clinton signed the repeal of Glass Stegal. But you have to remember, he was under the pressure of the Monica Lewinsky investigations. He also fired cruise missiles into Osama Bin Laden's camps, but people said that he was trying to divert attention from the investigations. They called it a case of the "tail wagging the dog."
When in fact, it was the first time Bin Laden came on the scene. But there were no further attacks until much later because of the negative press and right wing propaganda. I am not making excuses for Clinton. What he did is wrong. But so was the Gramm Leach Blliley Act (named for the three Republicans that pushed for it) that replaced Glass Stegal. As you know, it opened the door for all kinds of exotic investment instruments and greed and corruption.I haven't done an in-depth study, but others have. There is certain evidence that Osama bin Laden (a.k.a “Tim Osman”) was recruited by the CIA / al-Qaeda (created by CIA), to fight the Soviet Union during the Soviet war in Afghanistan. Operation Cyclone, which Carter signed, and Reagan helped further. I have seen some declassified documents.
Lots of smoke!
I'm trying to focus more on the current scandals of Hillary Clinton's, which seems to keep on happening with regularity.Reading through this exchange it reminds me of why nothing good can be accomplished in Washington. Everyone lays the blame on the other party. Clinton signed the legislation but, oh don't you see? the Republican majority in the congress pushed it through.
The same with Hillary. She lied, but oh don't you see? the republicans keep talking about it so they are the bad guys.
It's the same all the way around. It's set up so none on the hill have to take responsibility and we are at odds defending the indefensible."I know that Clinton signed the repeal of Glass Stegal. But you have to remember, he was under the pressure of the Monica Lewinsky investigations."
LOL What party was Monica? It would appear that she was the actual cause - considering her position she was likely a Democrat so it's the Democrat's fault!
Colorfulone: I don't play the conspiracy game. The soviets were in Afghanistan for 10 years. That was Charlie Wilson's war where arms were purchased via Israel to give to the Afghans to fight the Soviet Union. It worked , but then those same arms and the same people turned on us when we invaded Afghanistan as a result of 911. They became the Taliban and Al Queda who we are still fighting today.
Getting back to Hillary, she understand the tactics of Asymmetrical Warfare. Trump is like all the rest of them. They claim after their first day in office, they are going to destroy ISIS by bombing the hell out of them. They have no idea that when ISIS conquers a town or a territory, they embed themselves with the civilian population. Unless they bomb innocent civilians, it is not going to work. Hillary knows this, because she has lived through it. Trump has no knowledge of foreign affairs. He says he will use his brain and figure it out as he goes along. Maybe he can use that mind set in real estate, but it's not going to work when you are dealing with a very sophisticated operation like ISIS. And make no mistake, they are very sophisticated when it come to Asymmetrical warfare and terrorist tactics. They have faked out our best generals That's why we are still there.."I don't play the conspiracy game." REALLY?
Hillary Clinton: 'We Created al-Qaeda'
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnLvzV9xAHA
You might be right, Hillary Clinton lies, lies, lies.
I cannot believe anything she says.
ISIS is al-Qaeda! (confused yet)
Hillary was responsible for policies that created ISIS, and she helped transfer weapons to ISIS. (as Secretary of State in the Obama Administration)
That's in her emails.
That's all fine and good...except it wasn't the repeal of Glass Stegal that did the real damage. It was the requirement that banks make far more substandard loans than they had been in order to use Fannie and Freddie. How those mortgages were packaged or who was able to make mortgages had nothing to do with the result of that requirement; a huge glut of substandard mortgages that were destined to fail. Congress heard testimony from lenders as to what would happen, but ignored it in the wonderful idea that everyone should be able to own a house.
But you already know this; we've discussed it before. You already know that the repeal of Glass Stegal undoubtedly exacerbated the problem but that it was not the actual problem. That it was congress's demand for additional substandard mortgages they were told would cause a failure of the system and did indeed cause that failure.
It is comical, though, that you give me a video of Bush saying we need to have housing for everyone...three years after the repeal that you blame for the problem. And then go on to say that you know Clinton signed that repeal...because of Monica (guess it was all her fault?). Blame Bush for what happened, and if was years before he came on the scene, oh well. Blame him anyway.Uh oh, I hear the horses chomping.
You might have time to double-check those Glass-Steagall and Epi-pin statements, but I would hurry.
Pres. Clinton might be a good starting point for one;
""Look at all the grief I got for signing the bill that ended Glass-Steagall," Bill Clinton said in an interview with Inc. magazine for its September issue." [politifacts]
Then a look at the legislative history of that Republican Congress regarding the act's vote tally, followed by a look at the Democrats Community Reinvestment Act vote trade that might help too.
As for the Epi-pen, I know it is all over the news, but the wholesale numbers I heard were approx. $103 in 2009 and $608 in 2016. You point is valid but not quite as skewed as your numbers say.
Just Sayin'
GAGA: Yes it did cause grief, because he was operating from a weak point during the investigation. But it was Senator Gramm who hired a group of whiz kid mathematicians who calculated if the loans were bundled and sold as investment entities, it would mitigate the risk. What they didn't take into account was the zero qualification sub-prime variable interest rate loans that buyers couldn't afford. And consequently left the homes and even foreclosed on them. Those packaged loans were sold world wide as collateralize debt obligations and derivatives and without any regulations, there was enough greed and corruption to cause the world markets to come crashing down like a house of cards. Yes the CRA set the stage for the loans, but it evolved from 1977 to become part of Gramm's grand plan for lax lending practices.
Here is what the Chicago Tribune said about the pens:
"Like all drugmakers, Mylan periodically hikes its prices. In 2007, when Mylan took over rights to EpiPen, a pair of syringes cost $93.88. According to Elsevier Clinical Solutions' database of prices set by manufacturers, Mylan raised the price 5 percent the in 2008 and 2009, when a competitor hit the market. Its price jumped 20 percent in late 2009, followed by a series of 10 percent and 15 percent increases. The price hit $609 per pair in mid-May."re: the Epi-pen.
Yep, those are similar to the numbers I found too. I did say your original point was valid. It was your $2.00 to $300 that I pointed out as being skewed.
GA
It appears you can read that two ways. The less dastardly way would simply be that they fought to get the truth out to the public.
Oh. That's right. You can only see the worst if a republican speaks. I forgot. I'll rephrase. I can read that two ways.
Of course you can.
That's why Trump is not so bad now.Let's think about this. Hillary has always been Hillary. I have never been willing to support her. She's a liar, a thief, a power hungry incompetent who has no right to the presidency. Or so I said prior to the beginning of the Republican nominating process.
Then we were introduced to Donald Trump the candidate. Of course I wouldn't have supported Trump in the beginning. There were actually a few options of which one was somewhat palatable. Hillary was even worth another review.
But, here we stand now. Evidence that the Democratic primary was rigged from the start. Evidence that Hillary put secret government information at risk because it was too inconvenient for her to safeguard it. And, the Republicans nominated Trump. What a pickle.
Trump is the lesser of two evils.
- ahorsebackposted 7 years ago
0The whole party of the left is corrupted , when you think about it, theoretically what's a little selfish trading among those who favor graft , corruption , the mass spending and illegal taxation of our entire society based mostly on the ideology of the elitist , ultra-liberal , democratic party ?
Hillary Clinton IS the perfect image of the party of taxation ! She's simply expanding on that theory of robin-hooding except " Taking from the rich and giving to the poor " ----Becomes 'Taking from anyone and keeping it for herself !"ahroseback: That's the best you got? Aren't you even going to defend Trump on what I said. Too bad all you have is your "theoretical" opinions and no facts. You are becoming boring with blaming everything on liberals and the democrats.
All of congress is corrupt, not just the democratic party. To use Trump's terms, they are in it for "Pay to Play." big time. Who do you think has access to congress, not you and me? It's the lobbyist that represent big corporations and big moneyed interests. They donate mega bucks to congressmen for their re-elections campaigns, so they can get bills and laws passed that favor their interests, not yours and mine. Many of those congressmen then become lobbyist and make the same megabucks. It's a big revolving door. Every three years, one third of congress is up for re-election. The GOP is panicked this election cycle, because they are afraid they are going to lose seats because of Trump's big mouth and his actions. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
The Pay to Play that Trump is talking about with the Clinton's is a smoke screen to divert attention from him and his campaign. When it comes to taxes, where is his tax return? The IRS says, it doesn't matter if they are in audit. How about putting Hillary in front of a firing squad? That's not getting any attention because he is creating a new normal, where he can say anything and people just look the other way. How about deporting 12 million people with no plan? How about his top advisor working for the Russians? How about Trump University and a class action law suit? Just look the other way and blame everything on the liberals and the corrupt democratic party. Hillary has no law suites filed against her, just dumb a** republican party never ending investigations, that cost the tax payers mega bucks while they are looking for smoking guns.
Trump isn't going to bring back outsourced jobs, because big corporations won't let him. They want cheap labor from other countries to increase their bottom line profit. He says he wants to deport Mexicans because they are taking jobs from us. How many white people are going to wash cars, pick strawberries, make beds and clean rooms for the same money as the Mexican's? It's called "division of labor." How do you want your labor divided? He has to raise taxes, because he has to create revenue to fund his programs. Candidates can promise and pledged you the moon, but the elephant in the room is congress. If congress doesn't want it. It isn't going to happen.
I know people believe Trump is the lessor of the evils, even with all of his ills. Everything that Trump is putting out there is a smoke screen to cover up his incompetence at being a real leader of a free country. He even has to be coached on how to act to get votes and he is even failing there."How many white people are going to wash cars, pick strawberries, make beds and clean rooms for the same money as the Mexican's?"
Instead of cherry picking undesirable jobs, how about choosing from the real world? How many American citizens are going to frame up your new home, wire your dishwasher, fix your car or pave your street? And the answer is "Lots". The pretense that illegals only work jobs that Americans won't isn't worth the breath to say any more. At one time, perhaps, but no longer.O.K. Who is going to do those menial jobs, if those people are deported. I will bet you dollars to doughnuts, most of them are here illegally. There are people who are already out of work in the jobs you mentioned. Here is your logic. There are many illegals in this country who have jobs that legal people should have. So we deport 12 million of them and then let them back in a little at a time as they are processed and qualified as legal citizens. Therefore, the people who were not working because there was no demand for them now suddenly becomes gainfully employed in the type of jobs you mentioned.
Given: We have a high rate of unemployment
Therefore we deport 12 million illegal Mexicans (a)
We build a wall and don't let them in unless they have proven they are legally qualified to enter.
In the meantime, we still have high unemployment.
But because 12 million Mexicans were deported, we suddenly have jobs for everybody that was unemployed (b).
In your logic, b does not follow a.
- ahorsebackposted 7 years ago0
This is the best of Obama Care in action , dictated from high in the white house and guaranteed to fail at the street level of medical company profit gouging , Of course it helps that the CEO is the daughter of a U.S. Senator from where W.V.?
Just one Democrat scratching the back of another Democrat !ahorseback: Are you referring to the Epi-pen price increase? It's not clear what you are referring to.
Yes sir , I was listening to Brietbart news radio today . This is the part of the medical industry that cannot be allowed whether through regulation , which it needs desperately or through legislation at least .
ahorseback: So britebart says it is the fault of Obama Care, why is that, did they explain? It is the fault of a monopoly by greedy and corrupt people who have bought up all the epi pens on the market and raised the price to un-affordable levels. It's all about their bottom line. It is free market enterprise in action without any regulations to stop them. Welcome to the de-regulated market that you conservatives have always wanted.
Its what happens when you guarantee extreme profiting for the industry , BY mandating purchase by the people or the people pay penalties to the federal government , Unconstitutional ! Where does it say that the feds must control or mandate a people to purchase a product in the constitution ? Name one place .
The five pillars of Socialism - one of which is "Control the healthcare of the people , you can control the people ! Thank you Obama .Hey there ahorseback,
Considering that the news is full of stories about healthcare insurers leaving the Obamacare market because of heavy losses, maybe you should rethink that "guaranteed extreme profiting" thought.
The latest, (and I think largest), was Aetna's withdrawal after posting a $400 million+/- loss, ( I don't remember if that was a quarter or yearly figure). The ACA legislation did have provisions to guarantee healthcare insurers a profit, but there were caps, and the losses exceeded those caps. So no, it turns out there were not "guaranteed extreme profits."
Just to keep this train on the tracks, I do think the ACA's passage was wrong. I do think a government mandate to purchase a product... or else, is wrong. And I also think your claim of guaranteed extreme profits is wrong.
ps. you might also do a little research into the pillars of socialism. You will find articles declaring there are anywhere from two to ten, (three is the most common claimed), but, other than Breitbart -type made-up pillar definitions, no knowledgeable source includes healthcare as a pillar. You do understand the purpose of a choir book don't you?
GAWhen's the last time you were passed around between clinics for a cure of a simple ailment you had , in the seventies ? The Epi-pen is one small example of unregulated medical profiteering ,it's immoral, One doctor visit turns into four , two or three prescriptions later , four co- pays and "Well we'll just have to wait and see ",later . Tried to even call for an appointment lately , failure is here and it's name is Obama Care .
Underwriters ARE leaving the system . They have been for three years and more . That's what happens when nanny governments dictate to a economy . Its a failed policy , a failed presidency and a failing health care system.
How ever many pillars of socialism there were are hard enough to determine when the pillars have all collapsed- as they have elsewhere .Obama-care will collapse as well , any research on socialism ; is fully viewed by observing the government interaction with business right here in America these days . This industry desperately needs regulating . Price capping, profit -capping .ahroseback: I 'm sorry, but you have just criticized the tenants of free market enterprise and capitalism. You have your ideologies mixed up. Your conservative friends are the ones who revere unfettered capitalism without any regulations, because markets will regulate themselves. So now you want regulations That is a democratic, liberal ideology. Don't the conservatives always want to deregulate everything? Don't they want smaller government (defund the nanny state) and let the markets seek their own level and privatize everything?
Well we are now witnessing a case of where it becomes life and death and you want the government to step in. Of course you and Mylan blame Obama Care If health insurers had their way, they would jack up premiums to the point that no one could afford them. The insurance companies don't care about you and me. They are all about risk to reward ratios and bottom line. In California, we have Kaiser Permanente, It is not only an insurance company, but also a health care provider. Did you ever hear about that in the 70's?
Obama Care was supposed to be a single payer system like Medicare, but in order to get it passed by the Republican (do nothing, make Obama a one term president) congress, he had to compromise and settle for state exchanges. (By the way, compromise is not in the republican vocabulary.) Again, you can thank your conservative friends for that as well.
What do you think Trump wants when, he says make it more like Medicare? He wants to go to a single payer system and then make it look like it was his idea. You have to stop listening to Britebart, they are brain washing you so that you can't recognize the difference between liberal and conservative values.
- ahorsebackposted 7 years ago0
And in response to your Trump Bash , You would do well to recognize that he isn't the polished politician that the others are and will always be ! Of course he offends people , they do need offending ! The only reason he would possibly have to raise taxes would be to temporarily pay for democratic entitlements he will end later .
Trump , whatever you want to classify him as , is the anti-system leader that we need right now . He beat out sixteen other republicans AND made them all break the promise that they made HIM sign in the beginning .
He can re-regulate industry , how ? , by lowering their federal taxes and regulating them into submission .It can be done and will be the incentive for them to repatriate back to America . he can create new law that makes it illegal to hire anyone but a legal citizen .
Seriously , you too must feel the major distrust that Hillary has sown among the masses . Yet ideology won't allow you to chose an independent .ahorseback: I don't feel any mistrust because everything that is said about Hillary is right wing propaganda. Including she will never be prosecuted because she is so well connected. Wait until Trump goes to trial for Trump University. We will see how well he is connected.
Here is a reality check. Trump and Hillary and everybody else can promise the moon. But congress has to approve everything and it has to be funded. The government has a budget. It is income versus outgo. How are all the wondrous things going to be done without enough revenue to pay for them? Lowering taxes on the rich is Reagan's trickle down economics that never worked. Because the money doesn't trickle down. Each president inherits the national debt of the previous president, whoever becomes president will start with a national debt of around 21 trillion and it will go up from there. And don't tell me entitlements are the problem. If you look on a pie chart of expenses, it is a tiny sliver compared to many other expenses, like defense spending that goes to defense contractors.Your great leader raised your national debt more than all of the previous combined presidents !
Reaganomics worked ! - ask Bill Clinton what caused his successful years , you are brainwashed to socialism , entitlements and the blind rhetoric of failed democratic leadership !
19 trillion of national debt dollars isn't trivial ? And the thirty or forty that it will be if Hillary wins is treasonous .
Drink some more cool -aid PP !
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