As a Catholic, I was wondering why is it that every Christian Denominations are lambasting/bashing Catholic doctrines and teachings. This is purely based on my experience when I was still in college when I joined other Christian sect like the Born Again Christians and others.
It is the same reason the Catholics are lambasting all other denominations.
With all due respect, As God is my witness, I never heard any Catholic mass sermon about lambasting other religion. Thanks
Haven't you heard that the Catholics persecuted the protestants?
Have you ever heard other religions/denominations lambasting catholics?
I'm Catholic. I've been at a gazillion masses in my adult life. The first time I took my Baptist husband to mass, the priest referred more than once to today's "Protestant heretics." Thankfully, hubby had spaced out during the homily and didn't hear him.
Haven't you heard that the Catholics persecuted the protestants?
- I have and so was the protestants. John Calvin for instance.
Have you ever heard other religions/denominations lambasting catholics?
- In the Philippines it is the best way to gain members of your denominations.
You are saying as if if Catholics is doing it is a minor matter, while if they are at the receiving end, it is something grave.
This clearly explain why each religion/denomination try to create divide,why it create a "us versus them". An enemy is the best way to consolidate ones group, so everybody irrespective of being a Catholic or not does that, only you do not want to see it when it is done by Catholics because you are a catholic.
Being born in a catholic family, I see it everyday, the church trying to create groups and trying to separate themselves from all other groups of the society undermining societal coherence. This also helps in getting a better term and luxuries for the priests.
I don't believe Christians hate Catholics, at most I would say many disagree with the Catholic doctrine. Hate is too strong a word.
There are a number of Catholic practices which I believe are not found in the Bible, or are explicitly counter biblical.
1- Baby baptism is a huge issue for many people. Jesus said to believe/repent and then be baptized. Babies cannot believe or repent, nor do they know what is happening at the time of their baptism. This is a human tradition and not a Biblical practice.
2- The idea of being initiated into Catholicism. Unless you are a baptized Catholic many churches will not allow you to participate in communion. As a Christian at a Catholic church I felt quite unwelcome when I was told not to participate.
3- The ceremonies. The rituals. The money. This is not true of all Catholic churches, but of many. The churches are often quite extravagant, there is a lot of money spent on appearances, gold, staff etc. The church often does not exemplify good stewardship of money.
4- The praying to or worship of Mary and the saints is not Biblical. (Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 969); Mary made atonement for the sins of man .
Mary is second only to her son. She is called the ever virgin (even though Jesus had siblings by Joseph and Mary) She is called sinless, where the Bible teaches that only Christ was sinless. She apparently crushed the head of the serpent, and delivers us from death.
I could go on but to sum it up Mary is put at an almost equal standing to God, is prayed to and is worship. This is called Idolatry.
5- The Bible says we are saved by faith through grace. The Catholic Catechism says "...so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments," (CCC, par 2068). "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9).
This is basically saying we are saved by faith and by works. You cannot reach this conclusion by reading the New Testament documents. It is completely contrary to what is taught. (Gal 2:16, Eph 28-9, Gal 3 1-2, Gal 5:1-4)
6-The Roman Catholic church accepts some of the Apocrypha as Scripture. There are a number of reasons that Christians reject the Apocrypha.
- The Apocrypha books were not accepted by the Jews, nor were they ever quoted by Jesus or his followers throughout the New Testament.
- "Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled," (Luke 24:44). He does not include the apocrypha.
-Many of the early church fathers rejected the Apocrypha, did not quote the Apocrypha, or openly spoke against it.
7- This- CCC 460, The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81
Now Catholics do not teach that we will become God/ or gods explicitly but this is in the Catechism. It is not explained and is a very worrisome statement.
8- CCC 862, "Just as the office which the Lord confided to Peter alone, as first of the apostles, destined to be transmitted to his successors, is a permanent one, so also endures the office, which the apostles received, of shepherding the Church, a charge destined to be exercised without interruption by the sacred order of bishops." Hence the Church teaches that "the bishops have by divine institution taken the place of the apostles as pastors of the Church, in such wise that whoever listens to them is listening to Christ and whoever despises them despises Christ and him who sent Christ."
CCC 883, "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."
CCC 896, “Let all follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ follows his Father, and the college of presbyters as the apostles; respect the deacons as you do God's law. Let no one do anything concerning the Church in separation from the bishop."
CCC 939, "Helped by the priests, their co-workers, and by the deacons, the bishops have the duty of authentically teaching the faith, celebrating divine worship, above all the Eucharist, and guiding their Churches as true pastors. Their responsibility also includes concern for all the Churches, with and under the Pope."
Not Biblical. Also I would argue not healthy.
9- "...no one, relying on his own skill, shall,--in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, -- wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,--whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,--hath held and doth hold," (Trent, Session 4, "Decree Concerning the Edition, and the Use, of the Sacred Books")
Against Biblical teachings.
10- CCC 2010, "...Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life."
CCC 2027, "Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods."
CCC 2068, "The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."
Again completely against the Bible.
11- Purgatory and Indulgences are not found in the Bible and are a Catholic invention. They also mean that Christ's sacrifice was not enough, that Catholics still need to earn salvation. This is against the Bible, and Unchristian. "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly," (Gal. 2:21).
12- Mass. Mass is not Biblical. As a sacrifice
"the holy sacrifice of the Eucharist," (CCC, 1055) and "the Eucharist is also a sacrifice," (CCC, 1365).
As a divine sacrifice
"For it is in the liturgy, especially in the divine sacrifice of the Eucharist, that "the work of our redemption is accomplished," (CCC, 1068).
As a representation of the sacrifice of Christ
"The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross," (CCC, 1366).
Is 'one single sacrifice' with Christ's sacrifice
"The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice," (CCC, 1367).
It is the same sacrifice of Christ
"And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner," (CCC, 1367).
It is propitiatory (removes the wrath of God)
"...this sacrifice is truly propitiatory," (CCC, 1367).
To all who deny its propitiatory nature Trent pronounces anathema
"If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema." (Trent: On the Sacrifice of the Mass: Canon 3);
It is called the sacrifice of Christ which is offered via the priest's hands
"The sacrifice of Christ the only Mediator, which in the Eucharist is offered through the priests' hands," (CCC, 1369).
It is capable of making reparation of sins
"As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead," (CCC, 1414).
It is to be considered a true and proper sacrifice
"The Church intends the Mass to be regarded as a 'true and proper sacrifice'", (The Catholic Encyclopedia, topic: "Sacrifice of the Mass").
Sacrifice offered once
"For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself," (Heb. 7:26-27).
"So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him," (Heb. 9:28).
"By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all, 11 And every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God," (Heb. 10:10-12).
Sacrifice repetition of no value
"For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near," (Heb. 10:1).
"And every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins," (Heb. 10:11).
13- According to the Bible Peter is not the rock on which the church is built. Christ is. Catholics call Peter the rock, and this is where we get the pope system from.
14- 2 Tim. 3:16-17, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
The Catholic church teaches that the Bible is not sufficient and in addition that the Catholic church must interpret the Bible for us.
Anyways I could go on but I think I will leave it at that. I may write a hub on this later and if I do I will post the link.
I recommend browsing through this website, it is a great resource. http://carm.org/
Also I recommend reading the New Testament followed by the Catholic Catechism.
After my long comment I must add that I have nothing against Catholics. I know and love many members of the Catholic church.
My only qualms are with the teachings of the church. However, that doesn't mean that there are not Christians among the Catholic church.
Like with any other church every person must consider what they are being taught carefully and measure it up against God's word. If it goes against God's word then we must consider who is right. ( I hope that it is always Creator )
Religion is not the way to God, Jesus is. If we love him the way he asks us to we are on our way to wherever God wants us to go, no matter what church we belong to. (Although loving Him the way he asks may lead us to different churches down the road).
Very well said, Thanks but would be right to let Catholics practice their Faith after all Catholic Church is a Christ centered Church. Some of the things you pointed out are the same things that I heard about every other Christian sect that it is not biblical etc and etc. They even reach to the point of accusing Catholics as devils, pagans etc.
Catholics have their traditions, scriptures and the Church.
I have a question, if all things cannot be found in the bible is not valid would "sola scriptura" be invalid also?
Thanks again Calybana and I appreciate your answer.
Your Brother in Christ
All things spiritual can be found in the Bible, it is the only scripture we need and the Bible itself condemns adding, changing, or teaching other scripture.
Having read your original post, calynbana, I'm thinking you refer to the Apocrypha in this one? You are aware that the Bible used by the Catholic Church was composed by the Church prior to any schism or division? That means it was the Bible of the Universal (Catholic) Christian Church. And, as seajon points out - the doctrine of "sola scriptura" in unbiblical. As is "sola fide." The book of James indicates clearly that a combination of faith and good works is necessary for salvation.
Ultimately - we need to understand the difference between doctrine and dogma. Man writes doctrinal laws based on the interpretation of Scripture. Doctrine differs from one denomination to another. Dogma is what cannot be redefined or changed. Is Christ the son of God? Have you accepted His sacrifice? That's what matters. The rest is frosting. Some people like it. Some don't. But, you can eat an unfrosted cake if you like. I happen to have a sweet tooth.
In the end, there is a veritable buffet of Christian denominations. Where you feel most comfortable and closest to God is where you belong. I like bells, whistles, structure, and heirarchy. Calvin didn't.
I am not sure if I am understanding your question entirely. I will try to answer though. Yes it is right to let them practice their religion, the same way it is right to let anybody practice their religions (within reason). However the Bible makes it every Christians job to rebuke Christians who are straying. Perhaps this is the reason for so much quarreling?
Interesting all the stuff I'm finding here in the HubPages forums. It seems there's something for everyone. I'm not a Christian, but I'm open to most things. What I think is that the Pope should be more open. Catholics need to be allowed to do more in this day and age. The priests are frustrated which is causing them to do terrible things. If there is a God, and who am I to say there is or there isn't, but everyone to their own opinion, if their is a God, then He is surely more against the crimes the priests commit than against the things that would stop them being frustrated. It stands to reason, doesn't it?
It is most likely that other denominations see Catholics as not really Christ-like due to their traditions of praying to Mary and Saints and their ceremonial practices of using gold and other precious metals to adorn themselves and their symbols.
It also is seen as sacrilegious to call a man Holy or Father. The hatred is of the practices and instruction that come from Vatican rule and not necessarily the practitioners.
I don’t hate Catholics but I would never kneel in front of The Pope and call him Holy Father and then kiss his ring. I find that whole practice to be against what I have come to understand Christ to have intended.
I think you are right. All denominations lambast anything that doesn't adhere to their particular doctrine. I suppose it goes with the territory. If you claim universal truth, all else is a lie.
Hi Emile R,
yeah, what really hurts me the most is that we are all Christians can we not unite for Christ?
That is sad, but judging by Acts and the Epistles infighting is nothing new.
So true. Wasn't new in Jesus' time and certainly isn't new in ours.
Well the infighting was for completely different reasons in Jesus time. New converts to christianity were shunned by family, friends, co-workers, bosses, merchants etc. To be a christian in those times really cost a lot.
And the whole thing about 1/2 christ and 1/2 law was a stickler too.
Denominations arose out of truth. A quick example.. the baptists separated because they saw a truth in water baptism contrary to the catholic ways. Pentecostalism formed because they see truth in baptism in the holy ghost. Different denoms have their revealed truths and separation is not a bad thing in these cases. Today separations are occurring again as new truths are being brought out, there are many NON-denominational churches out there because they do not want to be associated with denominational churches and this is okay too. The free-masons separated from the mason and the liberals from the democrats but when the church is concerned its called in-fighting.. please.
Why do you start posts with the assumption that every single person reading them hates Catholicism? Perhaps you are seeing hate in places where there is only disagreement?
I have seen hatred not disagreement but due to disagreement. I have been surfing the net and I have seen a lot of other Christian sect accusing Catholics as a devil worshipers, idolaters, Illuminati etc. It is also based on my experience during my college days.
My point is why there is hate when we have the same God and Savior which is Jesus? Can we not just respect each others faith?
Seajon, opposing what you see as false teachings is not hate. I am not discounting the fact that every religion has those that do hate them, and as you frequently see in the forums, there are many who appear to hate all religion. Curiously, those folks are perhaps the most religious I know of, but that is a whole other discussion. I am just saying not all opposition is hate, and in fact, if the goal is to save someone from deception, the motivation can be quite the opposite.
I have spent many years studying comparative religions, but admittedly for the last decade have focused primarily on all that calls itself, or is at least frequently thought of by the world as, "Christianity". It is very interesting to me how wide the range of doctrines are that people consider to fall under that umbrella, particularly when so many are doctrines of men, not found in or supported by the Bible.
Calynbana did a good job highlighting some of the concerns regarding Catholicism. There are libraries full of documents which official Catholic teaching hold as supplemental to, or where in conflict, superceding of, the bible. Most Catholics are at best, vaguely aware of this. Perhaps the most important deviation, and the one that is behind so many telling you Catholics are not Christian, is that the Christ you serve is not the same. Catholicism never let's Christ off the cross, which is depicted in the crucifix. His sacrifice was not sufficient to secure forgiveness. It is therefore repeated in the sacrament of communion each week, considered to be the literal body and blood of Christ in perpetual sacrifice. While the Catholic Christ's sacrifice does not secure heaven for the believer, works of the individual, suffering by or prayers to saints, authority of the church and works on behalf of a sinner by others, may all contribute to or even accomplish what they believe Christ could not. They say Christ made it possible for this to happen, but He did not provide forgiveness on His own. What He did accomplish, was through suffering at the hands of men, but in truth that infliction only added to the sin of mankind, it could not redeem it. God pouring out His wrath which was due sinners, on His Son while He was on the cross was what made forgiving sin and yet remaining just, possible.
In closing, regarding the claims of paganism, they are well founded considering Constantine was the Pontifex Maximus of the Pagan church to the day he died. When feeding Christian's to the lions and lighting their gardens by making human torches of them did not rid Rome of their influence, he cleverly decided to merge the teachings. He fooled who he could and killed who he couldn't. Constantine boldly retained the title of Pontifex Maximus for his role in the Catholic church he created. When Christianity is accused of having it's roots in paganism, this is where the claims originate, and where the supporting evidence lies. Most denominations known today have their origins in the Catholic church. They have had widely varied success at shedding it's influence and turning toward biblical teachings.
My intent here is to directly provide at least a partial answer to the OP, not to slam Catholicism. I certainly respect the right of folks to adhere to this belief system, but would want them to do so knowing and agreeing with all of their teachings. Bound by common morals and many mutual beliefs, I do find lay Catholics, to make good friends and allies in a troubled world.
If you are interested in perhaps the most thorough and extensively documented expose on Catholicism's origins, teachings and even place in prophecy, I would recommend "A Woman Rides the Beast" by Hunt. http://www.amazon.com/Woman-Rides-Beast … +the+beast
"It is very interesting to me how wide the range of doctrines are that people consider to fall under that umbrella, particularly when so many are doctrines of men, not found in or supported by the Bible."
Is Sola Scriptura a biblical doctrine or just a one of the doctrines of men created in the 15th century?
"Sola Scriptura" was the heart of the reformation and battle cry of the reformers. Using the scriptures as the only authority, as interpreted by the Holy Spirit, predates both the reformation and Catholic church, going all the way back to the apostles and early church. Consider Christ's own words, spoken not just to the apostles:
John 8:30-32 As he spake these words, many believed on him. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Note that Jesus did not indicate any other thing was needed, just scriptures...and to believe on Him. Why specify it only applies to those who believe in Him? Because it is those who believe who would receive the Spirit of truth, (John15:26). Nobody can understand the bible without the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is why there is little point arguing with those who do not believe, and therefore do not have this guidance. To them the word will always be nonsense:
1 Corinthians 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Far from giving us the bible, needing to keep followers from seeing the clear contradictions between the bible and their teachings, the Catholic church officially considers it anathema to claim that anyone other than their priests could understand and interpret scripture. Anathema means automatic excommunication from the church, which according to Catholics who claim to have the keys to heaven, would mean damnation to any who did not repent from going against them. For as long as it was feasible for them to enforce it, owning bibles in common languages was not allowed. Among the crimes sending believers to the flames during the Spanish inquisitions was the distribution and reading of bibles. Today, no longer able to keep people from having access to scripture, the Catholic church is quick to insist followers have no chance of understanding it without them, placing themselves between the would be believer and God.
In contrast to the Catholic teachings the bible tells us:
1 Corinthians 2:10-13 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
In the last epistle Paul wrote, he tells Timothy:
2 Timothy 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
So yes, while the term "sola scriptura" will forever be tied to the reformation, the principle it conveys is indeed biblical.
The verses you have given me does not support "SOLA SCRIPTURA" as biblical . The verse in John 8:30-32 talks about his teachings and not "scriptures only" which of course includes unwritten traditions.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
also the verse in 2 Timothy 3:15-17
explains the uses/authority of Scriptures in our Christian life and again does not specify or support "by the scriptures alone" or "sola scriptura"
Can you please give me the verbatim that clearly support sola scriptura? is it the only rule of faith?
Nothing new here, just goes to show how religions cause so many problems in this world from war to well, just name it!
I am a Christian!
I follow Christ...
Whoever follows Christ is a Christian...
Jesus is the only way..
I don't believe in the misuse of authority by some so called religious leaders.
If you have Jesus in you. you have everything...
Jesus paid it all at the cross..
Just accept His sacrifice..
You are free!!!
Hate is a strong word. I do have to say, religions cause just as many problems as they solve and the Catholics have a really long history of concealing information that could be detrimental to their beliefs.
Not to mention that burning peop-le at the stake for not believing in the same is just barbaric...
Many women (so called heretics) and even the famed italian philosopher Giordano Bruno
http://discovermagazine.com/2008/sep/06 … in-science
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