What is in it for these people?

1. 82

   sallybeaposted 8 years ago

   I noticed that someone called guidepatternsdotcom were on my google analytics real time tonight so I went looking to see who they were.  It turns out that they have a few of my flower felting tutorials on their site.  They are using my images with links to my pages but what is in it for them if they are sending traffic to my site?  Presumably, they were back looking for some more links for their site.  Should I be asking them if they have my permission to use my work as their own?  At the bottom of the page, it says they have copyright.  I presume they must mean to their own writing, not mine!

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   1. 95

      Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      If it is just photos with their explanation of what your craft is and links to the hubs themselves and is is not a copy of the full tutorials on a different site, they aren't doing something awful but something good. Try thinking like someone who uses the Internet for pleasure, non-writing work, and everyday things and it will make sense to you as to why a person might bookmark a bunch of tutorials they want to try out, share with others, or promote because they like them.
      
      Readers can be Internet savvy, too, and they can understand that pages that get no views may disappear. I know I promote the tech tutorials, repair tutorials, recipes, and writing tools that I use because it supports their writers who may be encouraged to produce more high-quality tutorials, may keep the information online, and, in my opinion, deserve some reward for the use I've gotten from their work. I also promote work that I find interesting or exciting. If an article makes me think, wow, this is really cool, I share it to promote good and interesting writing because I love reading good, interesting, and useful writing.
      
      Another motivation for collecting a bunch of related links together is so you (and others) can easily find them later. For instance, if a person teaches craft classes, she might store links to all her favorite craft tutorials for many reasons. Such a page could also serve as a resource for students or as a source for crafts to teach.
      
      A list of links to related tutorials that someone has collected may also be created to provide added value to a blog or other webpage. For instance, if someone blogs about crafts, such a list can provide added value to readers who may land on the blog. Pages grouped together by type are more attractive to readers; they don't have to keep going back to Google to find more related material and they can have some expectation that whoever created the list checked out each link to make sure it has a good tutorial and no hokey website at the other end of it.

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   2. 0

      promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Linking the images back to your pages is a cheap way of giving you credit without sending people to your site. Few people are likely to realize the images are linked and click on them compared to a visible link.
      
      If the image links have a piece of code that says "rel=nofollow", it means they have blocked search engines from following the links and giving you search ranking credit.
      
      I would tell them that you require a copyright in your byline at the top of the page with a "rel=dofollow" tag so that you get both search engine credit and protections for the article. I also would require them to put a copyright on your images so no one else takes them. (I say this as a professional journalist with many years of dealing with similar issues.)
      
      If they say yes in response to your email, print and save the response for future reference. You will have to check the site periodically to make sure they don't renege in the agreement. Unfortunately, many such sites do. But it might be worth the hassle for the sake of the link.
      
      Otherwise, tell them to take down the articles and images because you are giving away your hard work for nothing. If they don't comply, then file the DMCA.

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      1. 82

         sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I have just been looking at their facebook pages, these all link back to their main site.  In one case a person complained that they were using images without his attribution! 
         They also have masses of videos on Youtube and they also have adverts on their pages so they are earning from our linked pages.   I think your suggestion is a good one but I would really like to get my head around all of this before I write to them.  Will have a little more time later to look at it.  Thank you for your help.

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         1. 0

            promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Glad to help, Sally.

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         2. 68

            makingamarkposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I find sending them an invoice for their earnings from copied material tends to focus their minds on the niceties of copyright law....

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            1. 82

               sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Good idea if they don't respond to my email which went a few moment ago.  I think it might just make them sit up and take notice.

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   3. 60

      Emmanuel Udomposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I think they need your permission. It is not right.

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      1. 82

         sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I agree, just common decency in my book.

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2. 77

   lobobrandonposted 8 years ago

   Are your hubs copied? Or is it just your images?
   
   If your text is copied then get in contact with them or file a DMCA. If they downloaded your images and put them up on their site and are not calling the images from HP directly, then it's up to you. I wouldn't mind if I noticed that it was getting me traffic. Most of the images I choose are creative commons and I don't mind the ones I put up to be used the same way unless otherwise mentioned.

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   1. 82

      sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Everything has been copied.   All the images were taken by me and are my own.  Many of the projects are unique and have never been done before.   The results are unique to each project, no two pieces of wet felting will ever look the same.

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      1. 95

         Kylyssaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Any time someone copies your hub in its entirety and word-for-word, don't bother asking questions, just file a DMCA report. If the complete tutorials have been copied there's no confusion about what to do. There's no mystery about what a site gets out of plagiarism; they get web content they don't have to pay for.
         
         If it's just links to your actual hubs highlighted with images from your hubs that entice people to click on links that land people on your actual hubs, you thank the person for the backlinks and move on, enjoying the free advertisements.

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3. 94

   Glenn Stokposted 8 years ago

   Sally, I read your post a few times to see if I understand correctly. Are you sure you are getting traffic due to their use of your content?  I once had the experience of seeing another site in my GA Real Time and it turned out it was traffic they were getting. They copied the entire HTML so my Google Tracking code went for the ride, causing it to track in my Real Time display.
   
   So that's why I'm asking what you actually are seeing. In any case, if they copied your content, send a DMCA complaint.

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   1. 85

      Venkatachari Mposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I do not understand this. How do they copy the HTML?
      I am asking this because my economics blog used to receive huge traffic from Russia until I changed the website name. I was afraid that it was spam traffic.

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      1. 82

         sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         It is easy you just right-click any page, even this one.  Click view source and there you have your code.

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         1. 85

            Venkatachari Mposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Yes. I can see a long sheet of coded language on the page that opened when right-clicked and went to the source code. So, they can copy the entire code and use it. Too much horrible to think.

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      2. 94

         Glenn Stokposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         The software they use to capture web content can easily copy the entire HTML so that they don't lose the formatting.  Most web browsers, such as Firefox and IE, can even let you view the HTML. Most of these thieves don't even notice what they are stealing. Many times I see my copyright notice on their copy, and even my tracking code. These things actually make it easy to get them taken down.

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   2. 82

      sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      HI Glen,
      I am puzzled myself.  I was looking at google real time stats and I could see that the source of my traffic was this crowd.  I could also see new hubs which they were looking at.   So I expect them to appear on their site too soon.
      
      When I checked out their site I put sallybea into their search and up came two of my pictures for my wet felted flowers.   When I clicked on the writing, their explanation of the hub which is completely different to anything I would have written it took me to my own pages.   I assumed they were sending traffic my way!  Wrongly perhaps!  What would they get from sending traffic to my hubs or have they copied the HTML and are creaming off other people's content?
      
      What they have is a page of about thirty links to 'Different Tutorials on one page, how to make Flowers', just one of hundreds of pages.
      
      Perhaps you are right, maybe I need to file a DMCA but to whom?
      
      I wish I understood more about this stuff.  I only know what I can see. You may be right about them copying the entire HTML but how do I know that this is what they are doing.
      
      I see that they have facebook pages for a variety of crafts etc., as well. If you google their name you will find lists of them.
      
      I should add that when I put hubpages into the search I get a lot of other articles which I suspect are written by people here.

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      1. 0

         promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         You file it with the site's domain registrar. You can find the registrar at sites suchs as Icann by entering the domain name:
         
         https://whois.icann.org/en
         
         In this case, the registrar is GoDaddy:
         
         https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name= … tterns.com
         
         With contact information for abuse:
         
         Abuse Contact Email: abuse@godaddy.com
         Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4806242505

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         1. 82

            sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            That is great, thank you so much.  I will wait to hear their response to my email.  If I don't get one I will proceed.  Your assistance is appreciated.

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4. 79

   Chris Tylerposted 8 years ago

   I looked at their site, when when you inspect the link, [/hub/Wet-felted-3D-flower-tutorial] It just looks like a regular backlink. 
   
   
   It's a link on their site to your content on your site. Isn't that what we want? Are backlinks no longer a thing? I've been out of the SEO game for a little while now, so admittedly things might have changed, but from where I'm sitting, this is a good thing. Is there a part of this I'm missing?

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   1. 82

      sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      It is good and bad.
      Firstly, I am not sure that I want people to use my material freely without even an ask or attribution for the images or the time spent on it.
      . My Tutorials take hours of work, sometimes days and they cost me money for materials.
      If you look at the site they don't credit anyone for their work.  They act as if the work is their own and they even sell craft materials from their ads.  Probably more so than we are allowed to here.
      They even say copyright is theirs.

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      1. 79

         Chris Tylerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         That's understandable, and I agree that you have every right to determine what sites can and can't use your work. And if you have a problem with this site, you should absolutely send them an email and ask them to remove their links.
         
         That said, once you start promoting your site publicly (Social Media, Direct Links, etc.), you've pretty much waived the right to be notified ahead of time for someone linking to your work, unless you specifically include a usage/licensing statement (e.g. "No part of this work my be reused/redistributed without authorization. To use this work contact me at....).
         
         
         
         
         Well yeah, they kinda do, but admittedly it's a grey area. You can't view your tutorial on their site, at least not that I saw. To view your tutorial, you have to click on the link that takes you to your Hub here on HubPages.
         
         They look to be mostly an aggregator for sites in their niche, which isn't really that big a deal. At its core it's no different than Reddit, or Snapzu, or any of the other similar sites out there. Since they're providing a service (aggregation), not the content itself, I personally don't have a problem with them having ads, or selling relevant products. Again, that's just me personally. 
         
         
         
         That's for the website, which they absolutely have the copyright on. Since again, they're not actually hosting your content there, only providing a link.
         
         You link to amazon products on your hubs, and then you have a copyright notice at the bottom of your article. Doesn't mean you're trying to claim a copyright on those products, or on Amazon.com? Of course not, it simply means you're claiming copyright on the content you created.
         
         Again, like I said above, if you have a problem with this site linking to your hubs, you should absolutely contact them and ask them to stop, but for what it's worth, nothing that I saw looked like blatant copyright infringement, or them trying to steal content.

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         1. 37

            ChristinSposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I agree, a lot of blogs link to related content and it serves to give you links and traffic, so I'm not sure what the problem is? They aren't taking credit for your tutorials and they are sending traffic to you at the same time.  I have a crafting blog for craft fair vendors and I link to other people's sites when I think my visitors would enjoy their content.  It's not a copyright violation to link to other people's stuff with a description.  I'd be quite upset if someone I was promoting got mad at me for sending them free traffic from my related blog. 
            
            If it was illegal to do this you wouldn't have the option to "reblog" in Wordpress for example, where you share a blurb and then redirect to the original content.  I do this all the time.  So far no one has been angered by me sending them traffic or thought I was plagiarizing their content.  Clearly I'm not.  I do have a copyright notice on my blog/site because of my own design and content.  I'm not trying to take credit for the work of others, or I wouldn't link to them. 
            
            In my mind, it's no different than when you share a page on facebook and that share shows a photo from that page and a blurb.  A share is a share.  I could see if it was a non-related or offensive site, but this one doesn't appear to be that.

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            1. 82

               sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Perhaps but I still think it would be nice to ask first, especially if they are using my images without attributing them to me. I hate any kind of deception and I think initially you would never realise it was not their work they were promoting.

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      2. 75

         Barbara Kayposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I have a page that links to free patterns for crochet around the web. If I use someone's photo and a link and my own description, I always ask permission to use the photo first. You do want backlinks if you want to rate well in the search engines.
         
         If the link is to one of their pages, then it is a different story. I'd let them know that you would appreciate them asking permission first.

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         1. 82

            sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I agree and I would like an attribution for images which are mine too.  I think that is the least one can ask.

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            1. 82

               sallybeaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               I thought I would update this post and say that I received an email from the site concerned.
               
               'Thanks for contacting us. We usually scan the internet for best resources on DIYs and Crafts and simply list them on our website and link to the original tutorial. If you notice, we did link to your hubpages article (our source). We do this for all sources. Also, the link is dofollow we never use no-follow for our sources.
               
               We cannot put your name at the top of the page as you suggested, since not all images used in our article are yours. What we can however do is, we can write your name in our writeup, just below your link.
               
               Let me know if that works. If not i would remove your image and link.
               
               Sorry for the trouble. We usually filter non-copyright images using google images. Also, your image didnt have any watermark or anything so we thought we can use it by giving a link (as we did).
               
               Love all the grammatical errors and I am amazed that people think that they can operate in this way. Just  because an image is not watermarked they think it is their right to use it. The fact that we don't use watermarked images on HubPages probably helps the free for all attitude.   What do others think?

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