Take Care HP! You should remember you need us as much as we need you,

1. 87

   Don Bobbittposted 6 years ago

   
   OK, I've been around this site for a few years now, and by now I'm used to HP and their continual evolution to be a profitable site acceptable to Google. That's right, in case the rest of you didn't know this, HP and all such sites exist because they produce "fodder" for  google to use to make money.
   And, be honest with yourself, we put our writings here, on HP because they give us a way to make a little money.
   So, accepting the factual reality of our shared world called HP, I do have a few complaints. Now, don't get excited, I do this every six months or so, as HP and I evolve together.
   Here's one fact for everyone to realize. When HP accepts an article to be placed into one of their "niche" sites, it's because it has potential to make money. That's it. They are not philanthropists in any way shape or form.
   And, they are evolving a group of "editors", by whatever name they call them, they are editors, whose job is to make our writing "better" (potentially more profitable).
   Finally, I have gotten down to my latest sore spot with HP.
   You see, yes, I do use too many "comma splices" and I use too many "Caps" when I write many of my hubs.
   But, I do get a little riled up when these young, "untested" writing editors get into rewriting many sentences for no other reason than because it's the way they write.
   Come, on, stop your sneering, you know what I mean, The English language allows us to say the same thing in many different ways just by the way we put the same key words together.
   I like to play with my writing, and I often use my sentence structure to "accent" a thought on what I am writing about. So, it irks me to see my crafting of a sentence tossed aside to "do it their way"
   I say, if you cannot rewrite my sentence to accent my though better, then "keep your hands off of the keyboard, my friend. Everyone does not srite like your English teacher taught you in your hometown.
   You need to start looking at mine and my fellow writer's works as just that; works by Writers. And then, you need to do your "rewriting" on the silly and stupid structure problems, and not be such "set in your ways" editors where every article you take on should be as if it was written by you.
   You see, WE are the writers, and you, sad to say, decided not to be a writer but an editor. I say, if you think you can write my technical article on electrical systems in modern motorhomes better than me, and make them more poplar to the world, then good for you. You should quit your mundane editor job and go out and be, yes, a Writer.
   OK, Rant over!
   But remember, my articles (Hubs) are ony here because I have no more popular site to place them ..... for MY PROFIT!
   Have a nice day,
   DON

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   1. 79

      jackclee lmposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Your criticism of HP seems a little harsh. I have not experienced the edits that you complainted about. HP needs all the help and support.

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   2. 0

      promisemposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      After 36 years of working in journalism, I feel safe in saying that some editors are good at what they do and some are not.
      
      I have been pleased with some edits by HP and concerned about others. I do find that the editors are responsive when I send them feedback.
      
      We try to understand each other's concerns. I try to find compromises that suit what we both want.
      
      It's worth pointing out that professional media organizations almost never allow a writer to overrule an editor's changes. HP does give us that freedom.

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   3. 92

      Sherry Hewinsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I have only had one hub chosen for the full bore Hubpro Edit. Maybe I was lucky, because there was very little rewriting done. They added some pretty pictures, and some subheadings.
      
      They did slightly change a couple of awkward sounding sentences. The casual reader would never have known the difference.

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   4. 49

      Ashish Dadgaaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Don, we understand your concern. However, we shall never forget HubPages has given us best platform to flourish our writing skills and give us huge community of writers all around the world.
      
      HubPages we are with you.

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      1. 87

         Don Bobbittposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         that would be the best

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      2. 87

         Don Bobbittposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         BTW - that would be "the" best and "a" huge

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   5. 71

      Shyron E Shenkoposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Don, I agree with you. This is not a newspaper where the 'editors' are chosen to snip and clip, or is it? 
      Each article or story is the author's own
      Editors should not unearth the seed of knowledge each author has sown
      The Hubber's work is the Hubber's work alone
      HP editors should put the snips away
      Only correcting misspelled word
      And not change a words to what they think it SHOULD say.
      *
      *
      Sorry Don, you soapbox is getting slippery, guess I better get off of it.

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      1. 96

         theraggededgeposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         But the site belongs to HubPages. In the end, it is they who decides what gets published on their site.
         
         You can only have full control by publishing independently on your own website.

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   6. 60

      sprickitaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I like your writing style personally, also I agree with theraggededge and even with out the valid pointed comment , would also agree to a harshness in your rant. Smile, enjoy the privilege while we can. It is really something to put your words out there, having them published, don't you think? Sure the monetary aspect is cool but lets be honest... Anyway I like your excessive punication as it paints a vivid image 8-) TY & Happy Hubbing ps my grammatical errors ...omg way bad , right...

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   Redneck Lady Luckposted 6 years ago

   I also like to keep my writing my own. Individualization is the key to writing remaining human.

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3. 96

   wildernessposted 6 years ago

   It sounds as if you want to produce "art", while HP wants to produce "money". 
   
   There are many ways to make art, and the use of comma's is just one of them in the writing field.  There are likely several ways to make money, but they all revolve around google.  When you complain that the editors are not artists accepting your work because they are untrained, what you are really saying is that their training is in how to please google - in how to make the money HP wants to see - rather than in how to make beautiful art.
   
   Now, I've accepted that the powers that be in HP have far more knowledge on that subject than I do.  My art, while beautiful to me, is not necessarily what makes money and thus HP will dabble with it in an effort to make it more salable - to produce what google wishes to "buy".  That is not only their right, but as my goal is to earn, not produce beautiful writing, I'm more than happy to give them pretty much a free reign. 
   
   HP can provide the canvas, I'll provide the paint, the subject matter and the knowledge of just what should be depicted in my artwork.  But HP is then allowed to alter the brush stroke, or perhaps choose which brush is used, to get the knowledge across to google.  My choice of colors, my choice of paint and my choice of what the painting is to be of.  HP helps with the mechanics of the actual stroke or what brush gives the best effect.  And we make a painting that someone will buy, something they will display in their gallery.

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      AloBeDaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      +1

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      jansharesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      That was beautifully written.

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   theraggededgeposted 6 years ago

   Indeed, Wilderness. And for those extra-special works of art, there is always the alternative of our own websites where no editor but us can hold sway.
   
   Meanwhile, I am very grateful to HubPages for editing my hubs, putting them on the new sites and tripling my earnings. Carry on, HP, some of us appreciate your efforts.

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5. 87

   lobobrandonposted 6 years ago

   Completely agree with every word Wilderness just said, couldn't have framed it any better. What you're saying is that Google exists to make money - of course... The farmers grow your food, to make money not because they want to beautify land (At least most of them). Finally everything is connected to money and if HP has to survive to be able to keep your writing art published, they are going to need to make money too - and yes through your work. There are always free options where you have free reign, but there's a huge chance that there's going to be no one to see your work if you chose that path.

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6. 87

   Don Bobbittposted 6 years ago

   Well said, One and All!
   
   But, now that we look at their "edits" on aHubs that they will put onto one of their niche sites, their hands are getting a little too heavy.
   
   Like I said, I do publish some articles that really do need some tweaking. I admit this and welcome their catching my occasional errors.
   
   I guess what fired me up is when I read their edits of these particular Hubs, at times, I feel, well, raped, or at least assaulted.
   
   And, as an added point, it seems they automatically delete any Amazon ads I use. I follow their constraints on number of ads, quality of ads and relevance to the subject, but over the past dozen or more "converted" articles every one of my Amazon ads have been summarily deleted.
   
   Remember, it is after all, about the money!
   Don

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   1. 89

      Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      There is a new rule for the niche sites, which hasn't been well publicised.
      
      If you're going to use an Amazon capsule, then you must have personal experience of the product and you have to make that clear in the Hub (preferably in the description part of the capsule).
      
      HubPages has introduced some stupid rules in its time and personally, I think this is one of the stupidest.  Of course, it is absolutely vital that all products are 100% relevant to the Hub, but the idea that personal experience is essential is bizarre.
      
      Some of my best-performing online articles have been comparisons, where I look at (say) vacuum cleaners and recommend the appropriate model for different needs.  Obviously I can't possibly have personal experience of every single vacuum cleaner but I have spent hours researching them all thoroughly, and that is just as good - and the resulting article is very helpful to the reader.
      
      However what can we do?  It's their site so their rules.

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      1. 87

         Don Bobbittposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         The interesting thing for me is these niche sites. Sure, right now I (and from what I hear, many of us) are getting more "views" but I see a strange phenomenon.
         My Hub views went up again, like everyone recently, but with the niche sites?
         Well, they put my Hubs on them, and initially the number of views each gets do go up, but, after a few weeks, they drop back down to where they were at past times "when Google liked us".
         So, from what I see, we are still in the "they love me, they love me not" mode?
         DON

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      2. 94

         Solarasposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         That's what they write to you, but I have experienced something a little different in practice.  You need to add a description that includes more information than the Amazon summary.  So it does not need to say, "I use this item, and I like it a real, real lot." But it does need to say in the description what makes it especially good for your recommended use.
         
         RE: Vacuums  I have a vacuum article too.  And I did have personal use with all of them, trying to find the best pet hair vacuum. Here in America you can buy it, and if it does not suck as much as you would like, take it back and try another one lol.

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            Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            In fact I've had the same experience, Solaras.    You don't really need to have personal experience of the product, you just need to sound as though you know the product well! 
            
            That comparison Hub went years ago, when they stopped allowing us to have multiple capsules (it had one for each vacuum cleaner).

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7. 85

   Sam Montanaposted 6 years ago

   Don, I am getting the feeling that HP wants us to take out all Amazon ads, and of course then we make peanuts on Adsense and they make a ton of money.

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      Don Bobbittposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Sad to see, but seemingly true Sam!

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         lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         They probably replaced the capsule with a text link. Check out the hub to see if there are new links inserted.

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         1. 87

            Don Bobbittposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry, Lobo, But No. That would be OK for me, but it's not the case so far. Just deletion and no "links at all".
            DON

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               lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Oh...

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   2. 89

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I disagree.  I now have 46 hubs on the niche sites and, for the most part, all ads have either been left as is or changed into links.   If I have an issue, I email the team, and so far, every single time, they have been happy to work with me.  I will say, though, that ads are a slippery slope and those who wish to use them need to be very careful about how they structure them.

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8. 90

   Chriswillman90posted 6 years ago

   I understand the frustration, it does feel like our creativity gets stomped on sometimes but I also know the world of writing is a cruel place where art is not often rewarded. Even on Hub pages I've read some brilliant pieces that deserve far more than they get.
   
   It's sad when instinct gets brushed aside.

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9. 95

   jansharesposted 6 years ago

   I understand how you feel, Don. I'd feel the same if my sentences were changed for semantics or style. Bringing our thoughts and feelings to life through our writing is a sacred thing. I haven't experienced a major edit yet, as all of my HubPro snips were for minor things like title changes. The end result is that all 3 hubs that were snipped are getting more views and increased earnings. Hang in there, fellow hubber, as we evolve and stay with HP.

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10. 88

    Will Apseposted 6 years ago

    It is surprising how upsetting it can be when an editor changes something on a page.  But there you are. Humans like stuff to be standardised for some reason.
    
    Even the spell checker here wants me to write 'stand·ard·ized' like some kind of barbarian.

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       lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       At least it's not auto changing standardised into standardized. Skype for instance automatically switches it. Can get really irritating.

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    2. 87

       Don Bobbittposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Will - That is one of the truly ridiculous things they do on HP, this insistence on using the "American" English spelling for everyone, while at the same time continually hinting that they are going to "do something about" allowing "English" English.
       
       Back when I would put some of my "creative" works on HP, I would at times use English spellings for some words (being an old student of British literature) because it seemed to fit what I was saying. And, with a few stories I have written that were about people living in the mountains of the South long ago, I used a lot of their heavily accented slang.  But, I kept the spelling errors anyway.
       
       Have a nice day,
       DON

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11. 94

    Solarasposted 6 years ago

    I was correcting a few typos I found in a hub that had moved to a niche site, and when I went to save it, it refused.  The title had a pipe in it; these are now forbidden.  Interesting.

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    1. 87

       lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Pipe as in this: "|"? If yes, it's high time they are forbidden, a good move. Use a Hyphen instead. Most websites use Pipes at the end of the Meta title to place the website name.
       
       Eg:
       
       Setting Stuff up on HP - A guide | HubPages
       
       Rather than this showing on search:
       
       Setting Stuff up on HP | A Guide | HubPages
       
       I'm not sure, but I think searchegines assume everything after the pipe to be domain name. It's not blindly accepted but that's the direction it's heading.

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          Solarasposted 6 years agoin reply to this

          There was a time - 2 years ago (?), that everyone recommended using pipes instead of hyphens. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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             lobobrandonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

             You're right. I remember having pipes in my Titles too. Back then on my own site I used a hyphen before the site name. Completely forgot about that :-)

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          TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

          We're supposed to use titles in conversational English form now so that they can be more easily searched, such as in "A Guide to Setting Up Stuff on HP".

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12. 88

    Will Apseposted 6 years ago

    Pipes were an SEO trick to pack extra letters into a title and an extra keyword or two. They were always a signal to me that I was not going to get something readable.

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    1. 93

       Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Don,
       If I have been very offended about changes made to hubs moved to niches, I have written in to say so. That usually makes little difference.
       
       But once your hub has been moved, you can go back and edit it the way you want it. I'm not saying they will leave it alone, but in several cases they did on mine. If it's not a huge change they aren't going to bother, go change it back to the way you want it.
       
       They took out a lot of my personal opinions in hubs that were moved. Since I wrote most of them years ago, at this point I don't care as long as the essence of what I was trying to say is not totally different.
       
       I really think this is the last change I can stand. I hope it works. So far I'm doing better than in a long time, but there's no way to know how long it will last. Hang in there, you already did this long. At least see how it turns out.

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13. 95

    Glenis Rixposted 6 years ago

    I'm relatively knew to hub pages and have only recently been asked to submit a few hubs to niche sites. My own experience so far is that  only a very few minor changes have been made to my pages - mostly to correct typos. I'm very happy to have an editor run a critical eye over my writing - it will help me to improve, and it's what happens to those fortunate enough to have  work accepted by a publisher for print.

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