500-600 Word Hubs?

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   Kain 360posted 6 years ago

   I wrote a hub on swimming pools that's around 1000 words. And a lot of my videogame hubs are above 500 words. Since my return on HubPages, I've wanted to know something. Are 500-600 word hubs enough or are they now considered poor? I'm asking this because originally a writer did not need to get featured & transfered to a vertical site. Have standards for word count increased?
   
   I'm interested in writing some hubs focused on fitness & nutrition. Some of them may not require above 500-600 words.

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      TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Those articles are far too short.  Each hub should have at least 1000 words...more is preferable.  If you don't know enough about a subject to write that many words, you either have to do more research or not submit that article.

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         Kain 360posted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Well perhaps now they are. Years ago they definitely were not for me. I have a hub right now that is exactly 800 words (I have no idea how I keep hitting exactly 800 or 1000 etc). And it got featured, sent to a niche site, and has been getting 200 views a day with fluctuations, but it's not a fitness or nutrition hub.
         
         To be honest, I write what comes naturally now (and in the past) a hub might come up with 800 words or 1300. It really depends on what I'm talking about & how specific I get.
         
         But I might start doing more planning for some hubs. Like a checklist.

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            Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I don't plan either.  I think 800 words is OK and I have a few of that length which have been accepted for the niche sites.  They do have a generous sprinkling of videos and photos which I think compensates for the slightly lower word count.

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         Melissa A Smithposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         In the Google search, my articles are getting beaten by articles with under 600 words with 1-0 photos or stupid slide shows with a sentence on each slide. I often wonder if hubpages is doing us a disservice forcing us to write so much. I can't compete with other sites that can produce more pages for search queries while I usually have 2500+ words, so it takes me longer to produce more articles. While some of my articles need the length, I would like to answer some questions that simply don't need 3000 words to address satisfactorily. I could produce these a lot faster.

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            Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Melissa, why do you feel that HubPages "forces" you to write so much?   Until this year, no one on HubPages was recommending Hubs above 1,500 words (in fact, if you look at the Stellar Guidelines, they only go up to 1,250 words).

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               Melissa A Smithposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Really?? I follow the the goal targets they have in the corner. Anyway, I think a 500 word article would be labeled low quality and wouldn't get on a niche site, and if it's not on a niche site it might as well not be there at all.

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                  Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  If you look at those targets, the word count only goes up to 1,250.   
                  
                  I agree that a 500 word Hub probably wouldn't make it on to a niche site, and I also agree that if a Hub can't get on a niche site it's not worth having.  But you've got several examples on this thread where people have had 800-word Hubs accepted for niche sites. 
                  
                  One tip, having glanced at a few of your articles - consider cutting back drastically on your introductions.  Google is now giving much greater importance to having meaningful content in the opening paragraph - which may be why shorter posts are beating you, if they have actual facts in that first paragraph instead of a general intro.
                  
                  Also, bear in mind that if you write a shorter Hub and it's not accepted, you can expand it and resubmit it using the "Submit to a network site" feature, so all is not lost.

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                     Melissa A Smithposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Then I mean 1250, whatever the number is. It's too much to answer certain questions. Some people prefer to click on brief yahoo answers over wordy articles. That is again another challenge, if I have to distribute my facts in the intro so that it sounds redundant discussing it again in later paragraphs. I wish I could write like my competitor that Google loves, 3 paragraphs that state the basic facts for people who want simple-minded answers with one photo at the top. I could churn out hundreds of those.

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      CatherineGiordanoposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      To reach the 1200 word threshold, try reviewing two related games in one hub. You can even add to your word count, by comparing the two games. This one is better for this feature, but the other i better on that feature.

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   Rupert Taylorposted 6 years ago

   My understanding is that HP likes 1,000 to 1,500 words of original material; 500 to 600 is not going to pass QAP. I would also caution about the fitness and nutrition beat; it's over-saturated on the Internet and getting your voice to stand out from the babble is very difficult.

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   Jeremy Gillposted 6 years ago

   Rupert's right, it's difficult to pass 500-word Hubs. Maybe they'll succeed if their length is inflated with several relevant pictures and videos, and the writing is high quality, but I'd strive to at least hit 700 if not more.
   
   If I brainstorm an idea and I realize I don't have enough to say on it to reach 700, I usually scrap or table the concept. Best of luck.

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      Kain 360posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      If what you guys are saying is true, then HP has increased their standards. I had no problem years ago getting 500-600 word hubs traffic. I had a semi-viral hub years ago that got 5000 views & was less than 1000 words.

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   Marisa Wrightposted 6 years ago

   There is no set minimum word limit, as far as I'm aware.  However a few years ago, one of our top Hubbers did some extensive testing and found that one of the keys to maximum performance was a word count in the 800 to 1,500 word range.
   
   HubPages also used to recommend 1,500 words - in fact they were so convinced of the magic of that figure, they paid people upfront to write them for a while.
   
   This year, Paul Edmondson (HubPages founder) posted that he's seeing even longer Hubs having significant success - up to 2,500 words.   Once upon a time, I would have recommended anyone writing that length of Hub to split it in two. 
   
   In these times of short attention spans, it seems counter-intuitive to write long Hubs.   Readers want a quick answer to their problem or question, so why do you need so many words?   The answer is SEO.   We used to be able to write short articles and keyword stuff them.  Now, you can't do that - so the only way to get a decent variety of keywords and phrases into an article is to make it long, and write naturally.

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      Kain 360posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I believe writing longer hubs is necessary and beneficial if the topic demands it, but making an article 50% longer or more when there's nothing fundamental & relevant to add is kind of a waste and pointless.
      
      On another account I wrote over 300 hubs. In my case, my most successful hubs were 600-1000 words. But this was years ago. And back then, it was a mixed bag. I wrote some good hubs, but also some bad ones in terms of writing & traffic. Sometimes I was in a rush & felt like I had to write a ton of hubs instead of focusing on one or two and taking my time.
      
      My most successful hub was just over 600 words & was ranked #1 in Google for a while. Forgive me to all who hears me repeat this over and over again in the forums. It's just that I've seen the potential on HubPages. You can write a 2000+ word article and get no views or write 500-1000 word article & have it go semi-viral or be successful long-term with fewer views.
      
      I just want to ensure that I will meet HubPages standards, as I was not sure if there were standards implemented that I was unaware of. Additionally, I'd rather split a topic up into two hubs that are 600-1000 words instead of writing an article that's 3000 words that focuses on the same subject, but can easily be split up to target more keywords.
      
      I probably won't have a problem writing at least 800 word hubs, though, as my most recent hubs are far above 500 and a few older ones are as well.
      
      Off my experience, SEO, ranking, and popularity dicated whether or not my hubs were successful. I never really did any promotion or focused on writing 2000+ word hubs. But one person's experience on HP can be drastically different than another.

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      CatherineGiordanoposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the info about 2500 words doing well. I try to keep my hubs to 1800, but lately they have been coming in closer to 2500.  It just happens that I need that many words to make my case. Because I am writing on controversial subjects, I try to anticipate objections and address them in the hub and that is making them longer. I thought my overly long hubs were a problem; glad to her they are not.
      
      To deal with the short attention spans of readers, I try to keep my sections short. Lots of section headings, and sub-headings, helps the reader scan to the section that is most interesting to them. If a section is getting long, I look for a way to break it into two.

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   Kenna McHughposted 6 years ago

   I am inclined to agree with Marisa. From the point of view of a reader, Hub Pages is reader friendly. The long pages are easier to read here than other websites that have out of proportion pop-up ads.
   As a writer, 1,500 to 2,500 articles is a lot of work. But, I am one of those first writers who were paid to write those 1,500 articles. They still have the top views compared to my 500-word articles.

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      Kain 360posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      When was HubPages paying upfront? Must have been a time when I was absent on HP or I was simply unaware. I don't think many websites pay upfront.
      
      I wrote for Constant Content, but you have to sell your articles to get paid. And you don't make passive income. Constant Content had extremely extremely strict editors. At least in my experience. Not sure how worthy CC was considering I made more on HP because hubs would go semi-viral and get a ton of views for a while -- contrast that to selling an article once (if it actually sells).
      
      Sorry if I digressed a bit. lol

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         Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         HubPages paid upfront for a program called Flagship Hubs.  At the time, HubPages believed they had identified the ideal criteria for a Hub and they were prepared to pay for it.  I  think it was $25 upfront, and you then got your usual earnings from the Hub ongoing. 
         
         As for word length - I know you had success with shorter Hubs. We all did.  In fact, there were several professional bloggers here at that time, and they all said it was better to write three 500-word Hubs and interlink them, than to write one 1,500-word Hub.  The reasoning was that you could make each Hub laser-focused on a specific aspect of your topic, and you then had three articles, each with its own chance of ranking on Google.
         
         That was then, this is now.  As you're aware, the internet world has changed.  As Jeremy said, some Hubbers won't even bother creating a Hub if they don't have enough material to write at least 1,000 words, because it doesn't pay off.

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   pen promulgatesposted 6 years ago

   Valuable insights. Thanks all!

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   Deborah Minterposted 6 years ago

   I believe the average article is thought to be at least 1000 word... But if you have articles that are rich and well done that are 500 words, it should be fine. Some articles on recipes are only 100 words.

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   Pianotekposted 6 years ago

   I try to write at least 400 words but will go higher if I can.  One hub is 435 words and is in the dengarden niche.

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      Kain 360posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Well I was told years ago when I wrote on another account that 400 was not enough. But that's assuming you're trying to attract traffic & not just writing for personal reasons exclusively.

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         Pianotekposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I don't get a lot of traffic on it, but then the hub is about a month old.  I don't know how long it takes before Google discovers it.

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         Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I think you were very lucky to get such a short Hub moved to DenGarden.   It must have included some really valuable information to compensate for the lack of length. 
         
         I'd say you are severely limiting your chances of success by writing such short Hubs.  When you decide to write about a subject, write what you know, then do some Googling to see what else you can find out.  Never, ever copy material from other sites - instead, make notes of key facts or useful tidbits and summarise them in your own words.  Link to the source of your information too (yes, I know you've had bad luck with links, but just remember your link must be relevant to the TITLE of your Hub and you'll be fine). 
         
         Search Youtube for videos relevant to your subject and add one to the end of your Hub.  If you find more than one, insert others in the body of your Hub and talk about them in the text.

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            Pianotekposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I just got a recommendation to add more to a hub that  I am trying to get featured so plan to do that. 
            I have put links on my hubs that reflected the title completely but were rejected.   Were they rejected because they went to eBay?

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               CatherineGiordanoposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Avoid links to ebay or to amazon. HP doesn't like them because google considers them spammy. Also why link to ebay? There is no commission from ebay anymore. If you did it to get a picture of a product, , search for one in Wkimedia Commons and sites like that.

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                  Pianotekposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I usually make more from eBay then I do from Amazon (from other sites). Ebay makes it harder to make money then it used to, but still gives a good commission if you meet the requirements for a sale.  Hub should have eBay again.  There are many things you can buy from ebay that you can't get from Amazon.  It would be nice to have this added choice for our readers.

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                     CatherineGiordanoposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     I was only talking about what to do on HubPages. Other sites may have different guidelines/rules.

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                        Pianotekposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        I have tried a ebay link here and so far they have not passed.  However I found another Hub that had 2 ebay affiliate links on it and wonder what they did to make them pass.  Might be a higher standard or something.

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               Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Bear in mind that old Hubs, published before the new rules, don't go through QAP until the author makes an edit.  So you will find occasional Hubs with links that shouldn't be there.  I haven't seen anything that says eBay links aren't permitted but sometimes they tighten up rules and don't tell us.

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                  Pianotekposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I spent some time writing the best hub that I could using all the good tips you and others have given me, and submitted it this morning.  It had 1 ebay affiliate  link on it.  I am very pleased to announce that it is featured on its first try!

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                     Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Woohoo!

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   Deborah Minterposted 6 years ago

   I believe it is better to keep them at least 1000 words. Some hubs can be less depending on the content.

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      Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I've written long hubs --2500 or 3000 words, and gotten thanks from people who are interested in the topic. People who are more inclined to research something they like are happy to find it all in one hub. When the niches came, I asked the administration about some of the hubs, if I should split them up. I was actually told to take several of them and put all the info in one hub instead of two, or combine them.
      
      There are two kinds of readers. The kind who want fast facts. And the types who are studying a subject and want to learn the most they can. But I have a lot of shorter ones too. It depends on the subject and the reader.

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         Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Jean, I always used to advise people to keep their Hubs below 1,500 words.  At one time, the advice from the experts was "reading on a screen, people's eyes glaze over at 1,500 words and they won't read on". 
         
         Maybe it's because we are all so accustomed to screens now, but Paul Edmondson recently posted that some of the best performing Hubs are up in the 2,000 to 2,500 word range.  So whatever the reason, it looks like the old advice no longer applies!

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            Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I think it's true after more years of reading off of a computer screen, we all got more used to it. Years ago I used to print out anything more than a page or two! But as Marisa and Jesse say, the rules keep changing all the time, so we can't get complacent.

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            TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Recently I was advised by the team to write hubs that were as long as I thought necessary.  This was in response to a comment I made about a hub I wrote that I thought was too long.  Sure surprised me!

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         Jesse Drzalposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Most of mine run 1000 to 1500. I have a few 2000 plus and a few 500 to 700 as well. I don't aim for any word counts, you can tell easily when people are trying to stuff words in length. Not very pleasant to read. Like you said it all depends. Many concepts are difficult to paint with one brush here, so to speak.

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            Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I agree, I'd never suggest anyone write more words just to make a minimum word count.  The words have to be useful and meaningful to the subject and to the reader.  But if I can't hit 800 words, I probably won't bother publishing the Hub.

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               Jesse Drzalposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               I have a couple of the shorter ones on niche. They were taken after I published didn't submit them. They are pretty blunt and to the point though..no fluff so perhaps there was enough meat on the bone there.

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                  Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I was surprised to see another Hubber who'd got a very short Hub moved to a niche.  Learning all the time!

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    Coffeequeeenposted 6 years ago

    Well, I generally try to make my hubs about 800 words long at least.  I do have some hubs between 500 - 600 words, but I do try to aim for more if I can.  Reading the comments has been very interesting on peoples different opinions.  Interesting question to ask, and has proven helpful to me!

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