After a record couple of weeks, my traffic is dropping

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   Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years ago

   I knew it couldn't be that good forever, but I am concerned that it's Healdove that seems to be getting hit.

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      Will Apseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I posted a thread about this, half an hour ago. But it became an unthread. Hope that was a technical issue or this thread might disappear too.
      
      Anyway... sad to see Healdove suffering. A two thirds loss on my solitary page there.
      
      edit: should have said that all my other pages on all the other sites are still doing well.

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      NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, same here.

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      weezyschannelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yes I went from about 2000 hits a day down to under 400! Healdove has taken a bad hit and I don't know why!

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      weezyschannelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, unfortunately I agree that it's Healdove! I've been hit very bad between traffic and AdSense earnings that I don't even want to check anymore.

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   Daughter Of Maatposted 7 years ago

   Yes I just noticed that healdove traffic took a huge dive. I lost 75% of my traffic on healdove and that's most of what I write. All the other sites seem to be doing fine. What the heck happened?

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      sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Me too, I have never seen it that low on healdove.

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   Glenn Stokposted 7 years ago

   I noticed a small drop over the weekend but most weekends have less traffic. However, after seeing your comment, Will, I dug a little deeper and noticed that only my 9 hubs in HealDove are suffering. I'm seeing a cut in half for the past 24 hours on those hubs. We'll have to wait to see if things get back to normal after the weekend.
   
   We also have to consider that potential readers living in Texas and Florida may not be online at this time. But that wouldn't really account for just HealDove being hit, would it?

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      Will Apseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      A guess would be that Healdove took a big hit as a FYML site. So other sites like Toughnickel and Caloriebee might be vulnerable.
      
      Personally, I reckon Google is tinkering with its algos to try to get the FYML sector squeaky clean and will carry on ad infinitum, changing this and that.
      
      Since there are few connections between the niche sites anymore, the rest of the niches should continue to prosper.
      
      We hope...

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         Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I noticed your post earlier, but when I clicked on it there was nothing there. Weird. We are at the mercy of Google. It's been smiling on us for a while, but it seems we have fallen out of favor once more.

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         Alison Grahamposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry Will, but could you please explain what FYML is? Thank you.

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            greenmindposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I believe that should be "YMYL," which means "Your Money Your Life." It's a class of online writing that is generally over-saturated and has been dinged by recent Google algorithm updates.

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               Will Apseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Hmmm. One of my drunker moments perhaps, lol. Or just an example of my hatred of acronyms and stuff like 'iPhone' and 'eBay'.

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            Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Just to add what I think Will left out. YMYL stands for Your Money or Your Life. So, it's anything related to health and safety or finances.

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   Will Apseposted 7 years ago

   I reckon HP need to think about the criteria that Google uses to access YMYL pages.
   
   On the algo front you can forget about user metrics. Popular is not necessarily authoritative.
   
   Nobody knows what Google is up to really, but a quick way of assessing a site would be links and semantics. If semantics tell you a site is offering medical advice and it is not part of the magic circle of sites regularly linked to by high end publications, like national newspapers, that site could be identified as suspect by a bot.
   
   So maybe avoid pages that offer medical advice.
   
   Page 9 of the Search Quality Evaluator Guidelines, states:
   
   'webpages that provide advice or information about health, drugs, specific diseases or conditions, mental health, nutrition, etc' (are considered YMYL)
   
   https://static.googleusercontent.com/me … elines.pdf
   
   That is a big net.
   
   But Google also says this: 
   
   'It’s even possible to have everyday expertise in YMYL topics. For example, there are forums and support pages for people with specific diseases. Sharing personal experience is a form of everyday expertise.'
   
   So recovery pages, at least, are safe, if they have good content.
   
   If a site has no notable figures or organisations involved that looks like a problem, too.
   
   Google keeps repeating one theme in its search evaluation guidelines
   
   Quote:
   
   "Important: For YMYL pages and other pages that require a high level of user trust, an unsatisfying amount of any of the following is a reason to give a page a Low quality rating: customer service information, contact information, or information about who is responsible for the website."
   
   Google ideally wants a landing page stuffed with reassuring credentials as well as individual authority from each page.
   
   Quote:
   E­A­T (expertise, authority, trust): Page or Website?
   The quality of the MC is evaluated by looking at the landing page of the link in the PQ rating task. The reputation of the website is based on the website that the landing page belongs to. Depending on the page, E­A­T may be based on the page alone, may be based on the website, or may be based on both the page and website.
   
   Healdove has only this to offer on its landing page: "Medical knowledge and health tips from people like you."
   
   Here are a few pages that Google considers very low quality, with its reasons:
   .............................................................................................................................................................
   YMYL  page  with  inaccurate  potentially dangerous  medical  advice, Lowest  quality  content
   
   https://static.googleusercontent.com/me … moking.jpg
   ....................................................................................................................................................
   No  evidence  of  E­A­T, inaccurate  or  misleading, no  website  information  for  YMYL topic
   
   https://static.googleusercontent.com/me … achFlu.jpg
   .................................................................................................................................................
   No website info, No  evidence  of  E­A­T :
   https://static.googleusercontent.com/me … 3.4.11.jpg
   .............................................................................................................................
   
   So, I reckon. either ditch anything remotely like medical advice or get credentialled up.
   
   A reputable figure cited as an editor with links to medical associations, hospitals or whatever would be useful but probably expensive.
   
   Expert reviews as mentioned previously, in big quotes on the landing page might help.

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   Chriswillman90posted 7 years ago

   I see why they want to bring in expert reviews/credentials especially for sites like HealDove where Google could easily ding it for lacking expertise on subjects that desperately require them.

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   psycheskinnerposted 7 years ago

   I think overall having niche opportunities for people with particular credentials or expertise would be a good idea.  Although that would probably require using a real name profile which would rule me out....

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7. STAFF

   Paul Edmondsonposted 7 years ago

   Many sites are up, but HealDove took a hit.  It's never fun when traffic gets hit, but on the plus side, the benefit we have as a portfolio of sites is most are doing super well.
   
   We have a plan for HealDove that we are working on to see if we can reduce the volatility of it a bit, but it will take us a while to get it all sorted.  At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised to see it bounce back in a couple of months given the history of this site.
   
   We will keep working on it!

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      Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      It bounced back better than ever the last time this happened, so I'm going to hang tough. Thanks for your efforts.

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   paradigmsearchposted 7 years ago

   That site was put on Google's S list more months ago than I can remember. Some editor, likewise months ago, transferred my hub from there to elsewhere. If I ever find out who she is, she gets major hugged.
   
   Scrap the domain, it is dead. NOT YOUR FAULT.

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      Will Apseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Given that Healdove can do the rest of the sites no harm, I reckon scrapping it would be a bit extreme, lol.
      
      It wouldn't take long to work up the front page credentials, for one thing.
      
      Dig through the site, find all the healthcare professionals (there are a few, like Tahoe Doc) list them, explain that every page is carefully vetted by editors, and generally work up the 'everyday expert' thing into something credible, without overstatement or undervaluation.
      
      Then find a few sympathetic, big deal medical/health types willing to say something good about the site.
      
      Someone must value community support in healthcare recovery. Others might value some aspects of fringe 'medicine' whilst being reasonably mainstream.
      
      Do not mention cyberchondria.
      
      Then see if any of it does any good.
      
      ps: I might write a page about dyslexia, since I seem to be afflicted presently.

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         Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Most of my stuff is not health related, but my top traffic/top earning page is on Healdove. I just got lucky with that one, it was based on personal experience with something a lot of people are looking for with not a lot of information available. I knew that because I couldn't find anything when I was looking for help.
         
         Even if I never made another cent on that, I'm glad I wrote it. So many people have thanked me for that hub. I won't go out of my way to write more hubs on Healdove, but I do think the site has value, and I hope it bounces back again.

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   Kierstin Gunsbergposted 7 years ago

   I think I'd rather have somewhat poor traffic on HealDove than to scrap the site and have nowhere relevant to put my HealDove articles, right? I get a little bit of traffic from there, even today.

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      NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I think PDS might be engaging in some hyperbole.

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         paradigmsearchposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Yep, maybe a little.
         
         However, because of G's animosity towards that site, I think that domain is so labor-intensive for HP that it just might not be worth it. I also suspect another couple domains of being in the same category, but I won't name names.

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            NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I'm no businessman but I definitely do some cost-benefit analysis from time to time as far as how much work I'll put into something, including with work I do here; I imagine HP is no different, no one should put more effort into something than it is worth

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               Will Apseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               YMYL sites might be hard to keep afloat but all those high value ads make them worthwhile, I reckon.

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                  NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  The health ads have value for certain, no doubt I see that the benefit there is tipping the scales; and this seems to be the sticking point, the YMYL articles. Noticeably there has been more effort put into making these articles more credible.

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    jansharesposted 7 years ago

    Dang! And I thought it was because my hub was copied. What a coincidence. I too, am seeing a huge decrease in traffic on one of my Healdove hubs. Bummer.

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       jansharesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       The hub was copied, though. Google complaint filed. Now I'm wondering if the HealDove site could have been copied. We know it's happened before with the entire HP site being copied, categories and all.

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          NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I think the effect of duplicate content is negligible and over-rated. When the search engine sees a duplicate it just ranks one over the other. I have strong doubts a small unknown new site could compete with HP on that account. Either way, the articles from HP will be older and better established, and HP has strong technology, I think it would outdo most copiers.

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             Will Apseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

             Sometimes this is true, sometimes not. If an HP site has penalties and  a new 'unknown' site does not, it can do your page a lot of harm when it copies your content.

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                NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Okay, well, I wasn't absolutely certain, I was going by my experience so far. But that's logical that if HP is already getting hit, then it's vulnerable to being outdone by copiers.
                
                I suppose to some degree I was reacting (mildly) to past hysteria about duplicate content, on the forums. It's borderline ludicrous at times and I've sat back cringing at it at times and sometimes get this itch to throw in my tow cents.

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                   jansharesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                   Thanks, guys. I'm thinking Nate is correct and what's going on has more to do with Google than copied article. It may have been a coincidence that both happened simultaneously for my article. Anyway, I just sent a request to HP to remove my article from HealDove.

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                      lobobrandonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                      Paul did say they are working on something to try and get it to recover though. He did say it may take a while until it gets done. Do you think the hub would do better on Hubpages in case it's not moved to paired life.

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                         jansharesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                         Maybe. It did well on HP before it was moved to niche but it has done way  better on niche than it's ever done on HP. I really think it would do just as well on PairedLife. I haven't gotten a reply from staff yet so we'll see if it recovers in the mean time like it did before.

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                            jansharesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                            I received a reply from an HP editor. My hub has been taken off HealDove and moved to PairedLife. (Yeay!) However, it was clarified that my hub was not moved to help increase traffic but because it was a better fit on PairedLife. Therefore, don't rush to try and get them to move your hubs unless you think it fits better on another niche. Now I'll wait to see if traffic returns to normal. Update forthcoming.

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                               jansharesposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                               Update: The traffic on my transferred hub has recovered nicely on PairedLife. Thanks, HP Editors.

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                                  paradigmsearchposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                  Mine still crap. Something happened.

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                   Will Apseposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                   It is nice to see less hysteria this time around with the problems at Healdove, than we saw last time. But some people rely heavily on HP income and I can understand the panic every time a threat emerges.
                   
                   Panic within the boundaries of reason keeps hunter-gatherers alive. And I reckon we are the online equivalent.

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                      Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                      After you've got hit and recovered a few times you build up a tolerance for it. I remember the first year I was on HP, my traffic was increasing slowly, but steadily. When the bottom fell out, and my traffic dropped to nothing, I just gave up. Fortunately, I didn't delete my hubs, I just quit paying attention to them.
                      
                      If you want to write on the internet, you have to get used to the ups and downs.

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                      NateB11posted 7 years agoin reply to this

                      I've never been successful enough to earn a livelihood online but I do rely on online earnings to pay one bill; at the same time, I see how erratic earnings are online and seek money offline to actually live off of. Admittedly, at this point, it would be scary if I were relying on HP income to survive. It's scary enough out here in non-cyber land.

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    Daughter Of Maatposted 7 years ago

    I agree with the person who said the front page of healdove needs to have articles by those of us who are medical professionals like Tahoedoc and myself. This would give credibility to the website. It maybe an idea to have those of use with medical training actually edit and review the other articles that are not written by medical professionals for clarity and accuracy. Do the editors that look over the medical articles on healdove actually have medical training and experience?

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       psycheskinnerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       I would agree with that. I have seen a number of articles accepted there that are not in compliance with FDA legal requirements or that give potentially dangerous advice.

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          Daughter Of Maatposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I agree 100%. Because of the misinformation on healdove, Google has every right to penalize the site. If you're going to have a health site, you need to make sure it can compete with webMD and mayo clinic. There are a lot of articles on healdove that describe personal experiences. I've read some about cataract surgery that are factually incorrect.  Most patient's don't understand cataract surgery to begin with, let alone be able to write about it factually. Many of the vision/eye articles are factually incorrect and I get very frustrated when one of those articles are listed above mine on the healdove homepage (I've been in eye care for 21 years).
          
          But that's just my 2 cents.

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    pen promulgatesposted 7 years ago

    Very well said NateB11.

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    lobobrandonposted 7 years ago

    The editors have been asking for links to references on articles on Healdove and Caloriebee, but have the editors actually taken a look into these references to make sure that they actually say what the articles say they say? I would think this is not really done because it's a lot of time and work.

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    jansharesposted 7 years ago

    Okay, folks, I'm about done with HealDove. My hub which usually has as much as 100 views a day currently has (wait for it . . .) 18. HP staff, can you move my article off of HealDove and put it on PairedLife? It's really about relationships anyway, less about mental health. Thoughts? I can email you later.

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    Chriswillman90posted 7 years ago

    The ups and downs are brutal, but unlike gambling at least you're always on the + side.

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    jbosh1972posted 7 years ago

    I have no idea what is Healdove but earlier this month my 20 little hubs where netting me nearly $3 daily, now I back down to a buck and a half.  I'd say it is a general downswing.  I really should add more content.  I have a good hub knocking around my head just have to get to it and write.  Even I need to keep it as a draft for a week.

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       weezyschannelposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       Join the dive! It really is devastating. Down to less than 60 views a day from almost 1500
       
       I'm losing big time! Adsense was doing great and I felt my hard work paid off. Had a great 2 month run. I get it fluctuates, but an 80% drop? Guess not

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    Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years ago

    Mine is up a little today, after 5 days of steadily dropping. I hope it's a trend.

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       Daughter Of Maatposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       Most of my health hubs have lost their traffic, however, I took a chance and edited the most popular one and the traffic is holding, and there's been a slight increase in traffic. I won't really know until Monday when we get our normal post weekend traffic spike, but hopefully editing the hubs lets google know they are updated regularly, which is something they look for.
       
       I also added my credentials and experience to my hubpages bios. Hopefully this will help with authority on google.
       
       Mel

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          Sherry Hewinsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          They popped right back up last time this happened, so I'm still hoping for the best. Good luck to you, and to us all!

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    Daughter Of Maatposted 7 years ago

    Is it really a good idea for your editing team to keep moving articles to healdove right now? Shouldn't you be more focused on removing the inaccurate articles until this traffic issue gets ironed out? I would think weeding out the articles without credentials would boost the site's google rating...
    
    Just curious...

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       aerospacefanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       Good point. Right now, that entire vertical appears toxic. If they start moving assets to soon, it could contaminate the other verticals.
       
       They need to shut that vertical (toxic dove) down.

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    Glenn Stokposted 7 years ago

    I just published a new hub and it was moved to HealDove. I sure hope that doesn't hurt it. My other HealDove hubs took a large traffic dive just like everyone else. At least HubPages is working on solutions for HealDove. Let's all keep our fingers crossed.

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       Daughter Of Maatposted 7 years agoin reply to this

       That's what I'm worried about Glen. The last thing we need is new hubs to get penalized by Google just for being on Healdove. Especially if they were doing ok on the site they were on.

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          Glenn Stokposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Well, this was a new hub, so I don't have any reference to know how it would have done on the main site. But even with the drop in traffic, my other HealDove hubs are still performing better than they had been on the main site.
          
          Don't forget, the main site is penalized more than anything, that's why they don't want links going back to HubPages from any of the niche sites. Google lowers your ranking if you link to a low quality site.

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          aerospacefanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Exactly! And moving hubs off toxic dove could spread the ugliness.

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    Coffee-Breakposted 7 years ago

    I have quite a few articles on Heal Dove, and as everybody else's, mine tanked too.
    I think the major problem with heal dove is that it is not niche enough. Because of that, it's a huge website.
    There are two problems with that:
    Firstly, algo changes hits too many article at the same time. Too many eggs in the same basket, if you want.
    Secondly, the theme is too generic, and search engines seem to not like that anymore. I don't like this type of websites either, I always think that: "They efing know everything!"

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    Coffee-Breakposted 7 years ago

    I think is too early to draw any conclusions on the future, though.
    Google traffic moves crazy across my personal websites. I suspect is a new algorithm.

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    Kierstin Gunsbergposted 7 years ago

    Coffee-Break is right. One of my Healdove articles has rising traffic this week.

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       Sherry Hewinsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       Really? Does it get Google traffic?

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    Coffee-Breakposted 6 years ago

    My traffic went up for a couple of days, and then back down. Most of my hub are on healdove.
    I still think this is an algo update. Healdove might still go up, the ups and downs in traffic are due to the "Google dance", and it is supposed to be totally random. I suspect they do this in order to incite scared webmasters to take an action. Any action taken, will result in a feedback for Google's algorithm.
    Stay calm and write more!
    In a couple of week we'll know for sure the faith of healdove. LOL

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    paradigmsearchposted 6 years ago

    My HP traffic across the board has dropped at least a third. Mulling things over.

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       Sherry Hewinsposted 6 years agoin reply to this

       My traffic is half of what it was when I first posted this. Considering that, earning are holding up surprisingly well though. Looking back on my stats for the past six months, it's not sooo horrible.
       

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