I call BS on this moderation

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   Bronson_Hubposted 13 years ago

   Here's the hub in question, a humor piece on Valentine's day in the answer section:  <snipped link>
   
   A moderator looking through the hubs personally stopped by mine, and without rhyme or reason, disabled advertisements saying that the content would disrupt Hubpages relationship with Adsense.  You know, funny they mention that, because a few hours before they did that, I posted this piece about what we can and cannot post using Adsense and Google, spent 3 hours combing through Google, Hubpages, and Adsense's terms of service, and learned a lot of things I already forgot, but thankfully wrote them down in this neatly presented hub
   
   <snipped link>
   
   Here's the moderation comment on the Valentines hub that they disabled ads on.
   
   "The content of this hub has been reviewed by a moderator and it was determined not to be suitable for advertising. In order to protect our relationships with advertising partners, ad serving has been disabled on this hub. To learn more please review the FAQ entry Why were ads disabled on my hub?
   
   Because this hub was identified manually, and not through our automatic filter, this status will not change if you modify the contents of your hub. Therefore, if you do make significant changes please contact us and we will review them as soon as we can (please include the title or URL of this hub in your message)."
   
   I wrote a polite email requesting to re-enable ads, cleaned up anything that seemed even slightly iffy (the only thing that might have upset the Adsense and Hub filters was a quick reference to same-sex couples and curiosity of the stereotypes  of heterosexual relationships apply in some way during Valentines to same sex couples as well).
   
   I thanked Hubpages, thanked them for taking the time to look over this, and politely requested to allow ads.
   
   But the thing is, it's not that offensive, nor is it that good.  It's "cute" at best and mildly pretentious at worst.  It offers some information as well as (hopefully) sparks some thoughts indirectly (I was going for the Kierkegaard effect where after you read it, he gets you thinking without ever explicitly trying to get you to think but it was very deliberate on his part nonetheless).
   
   Anyway, thanks for reading my wall of text, fellow hubbers.  My conspiracy theory is someone probably moderated, stopped when they saw the "Chicks like Valentines" didn't read the rest, and confounded the whole, just like all truly bad readers and dimwits do.
   
   -Bronson

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      NightEmpressposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I totally agree with you.

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         Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Merci, Night!  After blowing off the remaining steam, I'd like to figure out a way to be more objective.

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      Shadesbreathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I know how you feel. But, the conspiracy theory part is what's pissing you off to the point of writing this wall of text (which I did read, and I do feel your pain). There's no conspiracy. There's just dumb, unthinking, illiterate spiders that pop up warnings based on key terms. Then a human moderator comes by and sees the terms, and goes, "yep, those terms are in there." And that's it. The upside of the humans is that they can read it and go, "Yeah, that's the 'bad words' but not actually the kind of reference to that term that is actually 'bad', so, I'll just turn off the ads so the article can remain."
      
      While shutting down ads will piss you off (it has me on a few occasions), you have to remind yourself that the human turned off the ads and left the article up. The spider would have shut it down and cancelled your Adsense account for violation, unconcerned with you or your point because there are a zillion people trying to get Adsense accounts to puke their drivel onto the Internet to cash in on the "great riches" of spam, porn, and empty articles that say nothing meaningful.
      
      So, be grateful.
      
      Go read my "Butt Naked or Buck Naked" hub if you want to see how much reason I have to be incensed too. Mine were NOT just cute. That is a seriously academic piece of grammatical/etymological/linguistic research unequaled on the Internet anywhere--search as hard as you want, and I defy you to find anything like mine--and it got ads shut down for the same, unfathomably insane application of the rules you speak of. So did my commentary on childrearing in the U.S. "Stop Neutering our Kids"--not linking either because that's too spammy, you can go read them if you are interested on your own. Bottom line is, this is a for-profit site, so, they only have to follow the rules they set for themselves, and those are about appeasing a largely automated money-making machine. Logic, reason and even good writing don't matter if they become inconvenient to that ultimate monetary purpose. The human who decided to spare your Adsense account did you a favor when you view it in that light.

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         Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         That's a good point, I didn't look at it that way   I like your style, too!

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      j4funposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't understand why people think they're always entitled. HubPages is a free site. No one is forcing anyone else to publish here. There are a tillion other places on the Internet to "express yourselves".
      
      HubPages have specific terms and agreements with Google. If they don't follow them, they could be dropped then there goes all of our income.
      
      If people want to be free to say whatever they want with out any moderation, they should do it on their own websites. You're right in this HubPages, don't jeopardize our income.

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         Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         You skimmed the post, too.  We'll talk when you re-read it.

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   KCC Big Countryposted 13 years ago

   So you thought opening a "BS" thread and calling them "dimwits" would help?

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, I would disagree, one with this thread and secondly, I disagree with KC's particular statement, with regards to calling people "dimwits". Bronson did not actually call anyone "dimwits". He is pointing out minor flaws in readers and the fact that moderators on Hubpages team have similarities.
      
      It doesn't actually call any moderator a name. Just the action they have taken.
      
      It isn't productive to create this type of negative thread. Which is why I disagree with the thread in general.

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         Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         What kind of tone would you suggest Cags?  After I go through the emo stuff, ultimately I want a solution that's win/win.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            First off, any issues you have with Hubpages, unless needing a specific form of help that hubbers can deal with, should be between you and admin.
            
            The title in this thread, that alone, is disrespectful to those who have to moderate hubs. It isn't an easy task. It's best to keep open communications between hubber and company.
            
            Negativity or tone as you put it, isn't helpful and never productive. A hubber cannot help you with this problem. Thus, the problem shouldn't be in the forums.
            
            Ads being stripped from hubs, and I have three of them, presently, isn't good, but fix the problem, by understanding the problem to begin with. Hubpages has been getting stricter and stricter about what can be suitable material, due to their reliance on Adsense for revenue. The Google Adsense TOS isn't open for you interpretation and is open to the interpretation of Hubpages.
            
            Hubpages TOS is what hubbers must conform to, otherwise, not have the ability to earn.
            
            I hope that helped somewhat, but not likely.

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               NightEmpressposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               So where's the FREEDOM ? Can't we post what we think or what we feel about some issue ?? Wow !! Really ?????

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                  Julie2posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Not according to the TOS love. It sucks because everyone of us has our own style of writing. What should we do? Go to another site if we are not happy? Write like your neighbor? or try to suck it up. I don't know....

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                     Yournewdailydoseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     could'nt agree with you more. I ran into the same exact problem when I started using HubPages. Well, that and they would take my posts down all togetther. I did find a good solution though. I looked this issue up online and I kept seeing the name Blogger everywhere so I decided to check it out. Turns out its just a blog that's ran by google but, there does'nt seem to be any moderators. Your posts can be as long or as short as you want. It is actually YOUR blog , not just the blog that the moderators deem to be up to standards. One of the major things I like about blogger was that you can put 50,000 ads on your page or 0 its your choice, but you can also put other ads on your page like Affinity Click very easily. Blogger just seems to be more user-friendly. So as of right now i just run 2 blogs if hub pages does'nt take my post down, then thats good. If they do, thats still ok because of the fact that at least my post is still on one of my blogs. If you are interested you can check out mine at yournewdailydose.blogspot.com
                     
                     Always,
                     Yournewdailydose

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                        Mrvoodooposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Hosting your own content is definitely the way to go.  You may retain the rights to your own content at HP, but you certainly don't hold any rights to the URL's (far more important).  I'm certain that many hubbers have wasted hundreds of hours back-linking etc. to their hubs, only to find that their hubs get pulled, and banned, possibly months/years later.  Ultimately, you have zero control over your own work at HP.  Which of course, is never a good thing.
                        
                        It might be a little harder to start getting traffic to your own site(s) at the start, but it's definitely a far more worthwhile/profitable endeavor in the long run.

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                        Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I like these answers.  They are pleasing my inner-entrepreneur.  He thanks you.  So do I. 
                        
                        I'd like to learn more about hosting my own site, Mrvoodoo.  Any guides you recommend?

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                        Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I like Blogger, too, daily dose.  What other AdSense-ish types of programs are out there?
                        
                        Also, had a funny thing happen with Blogger.  I typed "big boobs" in reference to the obvious and for some reason that key word pulled in 300 hits in a few hours :S

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                           Julie2posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           I'm going to have to start using my blogger acct. sounds like fun.

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               Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Yeah, I can see how saying,  "BS!"  would not entice someone to shine a friendly light on this situation.  Maybe if I worked in the actual office it would be different and could throw a paper wad at someone in their cube.
               
               The conforming sucks, but I have a blog where I let out every bit of terribleness without censorship to get that out of my system.  So it's about selecting the right place to speak freely.  In this case, I felt that the Hub I wrote did not violate the terms, I wrote an actual hub describing what is and is not OK in the context of alcohol and tobacco (and learned a lot more as a result), and with that fresh in mind, did not find anything other than the same-sex part that conflicted with the Hubpages, AdSense, or general Google terms of service (yes, all 3).

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               Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Cags, it's all helpful, merci buckets

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      Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      KC, I don't like your tone.  You don't like mine.  We should probably never drink in the same room together.  Or maybe we should.  Anything could happen.

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         KCC Big Countryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         LOL......my tone?   I simply asked you if you really thought your approach would work in helping you. 
         
         I don't drink, so you'll have to drink alone.

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            Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Drinking alone would lead to more forum posts like this, but worse.  Evian, KC?

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               KCC Big Countryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Uh oh.....lol   A big glass of unsweetened ice tea would be nice. 

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      Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Makes sense. Most people respond quite well to insults.

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         Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I want to poke you with a stick.

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            Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Ok Probably deserved.

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   NightEmpressposted 13 years ago

   Why not ?
     Moderators sometimes don't take the trouble to read the entire hub. It had happened before.

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   KCC Big Countryposted 13 years ago

   They don't have to read the whole hub to determine if they feel it violates the TOS or endangers their relationship with Google Adsense.

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      NightEmpressposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes they have to. In order to know for sure the hub is in violation of the terms. It's a lack of respect for the hubber.

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It is not a lack of respect for the hubber, if moderators do not read ALL of the hub. There are specific guidelines that are used to deem a hub not of value or against the interests of Hubpages and Adsense.
         
         There are specific words that cannot be used and if they are used, then ads can be stripped automatically. The "topic" of the hub isn't defined as precisely as it should be and is highly subjective.
         
         Just a thought.

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            NightEmpressposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Well, they should read all the hub, and specify which words or phrases are no good and tell the hubber what's wrong with the hub. They never do that. They just send a message saying something's wrong with the article, without pointing out what it is.
            that's why I say it's a lack of respect. the hubber have taken a lot of time to write the hub, so the moderator should take his/her time to read the hub properly.
            Just my thought.

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               Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               That's what frustrated me, too, Night.  If it's just one word that tips off their delicate relationship with Adsense.  Since they did say a real person that went out of their way to read this hub, and it wasn't a spider or bot that caught it, a simple, "You said the word poop.  Unacceptable.  Change it and you get your money back."

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                  Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  yes, I think it's frustrating when they can't be more specific - adsense does seem to be very delicate.  Although poop seems to be okay,  I think.

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               lrohnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               The HubPages team has a monumental task in dealing with all of the hubs that are published here every day. The burden is on you to read and understand the TOS. It's not their job to teach it to you. I don't mean that in a mean kind of way, but they'd have to double or triple their staff if they were going to start doing that.

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                  Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Irohner, re: the burden on me to reead and understand the TOS...  In my wall of text which I do not begrudge you for skimming (if I had to read that again it might put me in a coma) I think you missed the part where I linked the irony of another hub that I posted 3 hours preceding the event.  I thoroughly read AdSense specific policies, Google Inc. general policies for accounts and business, and Hubpages TOS for a similar article on content restrictions and translated pertinent TOS into understandable language pertaining to the subject.
                  
                  The mods are incredibly busy, but the moderation note said it was NOT a bot that moderated, but a person "Because this hub was identified manually, and not through our automatic filter, this status will not change if you modify the contents of your hub".
                  
                  I think there was some foul play involved because it was kind of an existential you choose to make-valentines special or not kind of thing and they might really like valentines day

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         ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ask yourself whether a Google employee would take the time to read the full Hubpage and argue the deeper meaning of the article when deciding whether to delete your AdSense account?
         
         I would suggest that Google operate a very similar filter to Hubpages. I would sooner Hubpages remove AdSense ads on a few of my Hubs than for a spotty over-zealous Google intern to play Mr PC at the expense of my livelyhood.
         
         And I agree 100% with KCC, you emailed the Hubpages team and politely thanked them; you then came on here and told them that there moderation techniques are bulls**t; that is called being cowardly and two faced.
         
         I have 685 Hubpages, I have had ads removed on 9, I subsequently deleted those Hubs entirely. That equates to 1.31% of my primary portfolio; I am more than willing to dedicate 1.31% of my time protecting the income derived from the other 98.69% of my output. Ultimately if you want to write without external moderation then you need to establish your own site, but don't cry wolf if that spotty intern was to delete your AdSense account (which we see so often).
         
         Every major revenue sharing site is becoming stricter as a result of several high profile Google slaps and the recent Google admissions. It is not just there income that they are protecting but yours, show gratitude towards that instead of disrespect; they are being responsive in a fast changing environment.
         
         Just my 2 cents, I am happy to agree to disagree with you.

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            Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I thanked them, they ignored me, and I changed my mind about what I thought of them.  It wasn't a bot that moderated, it was a person who probably really likes valentines day and got upset when I turned it into an existential "you choose what to value it" kind of thing.
            
            I wasn't cowardly or two faced.  I changed my mind about how I felt after going through the proper channels.  So I chose this one next.
            
            It wasn't a bot, and it wasn't a violation of TOS.  I spent a good portion of time reading the TOS for Adsense, Google Inc., and Hubpages before writing a hub on content restrictions for alcohol and tobacco.  The restrictions for other content wasn't published, but I had to read through all of it before writing the hub.
            
            I do like your sagacious point about being grateful over losing a small percentage of my output instead of the whole, and there was one other poster who mentioned that.
            
            But your accusations against my character are misinformed and shortsighted.  It is possible to be upset for a little bit but in general feel gratitude.  That is of course if you remember what it's like arguing with siblings and parents.  Sometimes they piss you off and you go a few rounds, but overall you feel grateful and love that they're in your life.
            
            Same goes with Hubpages.  I'm disappointed you went with the all/nothing approach in evaluating my character.  I've read your Hubs and think they're top notch, I expected more from you in this exchange.

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   KCC Big Countryposted 13 years ago

   I disagree, and we'll leave it at that.

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   NightEmpressposted 13 years ago

   @KC
   You can disagree as much as you like. It's a lack of respect and too much   irresponsibility

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      KCC Big Countryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hubpages is a business.  They have a responsibility to protect their financial interests which also happens to protect everyone else's on this site who chose to make money here.   A few "disallowed" words is all it takes regardless of what the hub is about or how well-written it is.  It's not about critiquing the quality of your hub.  It's about the usage of words or topics that are forbidden or disallowed by Google.  It simply doesn't matter what the rest of the hub is like or about if the disallowed material is there.   I don't find that disrespectful or irresponsible.

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   Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

   If the TOS offense is in the first paragraph, then they don't need to read any furher. Respect for the Hubber? They could have saved his adsense account.
   
   When you're writing about sex, it doesn't take much to run afoul of Google. The cutest or most informational writing can be wrong for a google site. Just the way it is.
   
   Honestly, it's best to have your own sites for non-Google topics and keep them completely separate from your Google sites.

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      Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'd like to know what the words are that violate the terms!  They're totally doing me a favor by creating this website in the first place, but something's up with this one, hence the arrested development plea for "HALP!"

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   Nelle Hoxieposted 13 years ago

   Bronson has the hub been changed already? Maybe I'm being really slow witted. I didn't see anything that would break the TOS. What was wrong with it? I read it twice, the whole thing. Am I missing some salacious double entendre, that I'm not sophisticated enough to understand? I'm mystified.

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      Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The only part that conflicted with the terms of service was mentioning of something pertaining to same-sex relationships (in this case I was curious if same-sex couples experienced the same struggles with hetero stereotypes during valentines day).  What you're reading now is the cleaned up version which I fixed a while ago.  Sent the Email, apologized, gave the Hubteam a friendly yet manly xoxo, and still the ads remain disabled.  Thanks for taking the time to read the hub, too, Nelle.  Maybe they didn't like the pink bathrobe + cigarette?

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         Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I do understand you wanting to vent as this is all we can do besides changing our hubs.  This is merely another aspect of dealing with electronic technology crossed with humans.  Nothing wrong with getting it off your chest.  Yet. 

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            Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I dig the snake

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               Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Welcome to HubPages!  Roll with the punches and you'll be okay.

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                  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm totally shocked by your comment!!!!

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                     Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     I thought you liked rolls and punch!

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   habeeposted 13 years ago

   Google is very picky. Ads on my fun hub about wedgies were disabled, and the most offensive word in it is "butt." lol

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      Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I found that if "butt" is in a title or capsule title, it will disable, but if you sneak the butt in there within some text, it gets by.  Same goes with foreplay.  You can say it 20 times in the text body, just not in the main title or capsule titles.
      
      Also, now I must read your wedgie hub.  This could be the highlight of the evening

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         habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Butt isn't in the title, but wedgie is!

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            Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I see what you did there, and it was masterful.

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               habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               LOL!! Thanks!

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    Bronson_Hubposted 13 years ago

    Re-reading what everyone had to say in this short lifespan of the text wall, you guys showed me that you're the adults that are missing in my life.  I truly appreciate all the feedback and thoughtful replies.  It's the first time I've ever seen a solution oriented forum community on the internet.  Truly.  It's pretty awesome!
    
    Except KC, he asked a question "And you thought...?" designed to make little kids answer it like, "Well, uh, no, I guess..."  Which follows up with a pedestal-ish admonishing of yours truly.  That's the tone I didn't like, and you didn't like mine.  We would probably road rage at each other if we ever drove on the high way  in real life.  We probably already have and don't even know it.

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       KCC Big Countryposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Just for the record.....I'm KCC and I'm a "she".  I don't do road rage and you have detected a tone that was not there.
       
       I simply asked a question to make you think.  I honestly didn't even care if you answered it.

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          Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          "So you thought opening a "BS" thread and calling them "dimwits" would help?"
          
          Going to stop there.  Too many C's.  And other things.  Night!

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    Pcunixposted 13 years ago

    Seriously, though: If HubPages disabled ads on one of my hubs, it is quite likely that the content would upset Google if I put it somewhere else, so why bother?  If I want to say what I said, I can still say it.  I'd have no reason to be upset.

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       Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah I felt better 5 minutes after posting it and reading all the posts from people here.  I think I'm in love with this site.

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    ryankettposted 13 years ago

    For clarification, which of these staff members is it that you believe to be a dimwit precisely? http://hubpages.com/about/team

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       Pcunixposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I dunno.  The first two look pretty bright..

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       Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I'm trying to pick the one that looks like they love Valentine's day the most to adjust to a new conspiracy theory swirling around.

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    Maddie Ruudposted 13 years ago

    Well, since you've deleted the Hub, I cannot review it to see what exactly the problem was.  Please note that none of us work 24/7 and emails sent on the weekend do take longer to get a response.

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       Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yep, the day after the moderation, I re-edited it, cleaned it up, all after writing a hub on the TOS for AdSense, Google, and Hubpages.  Waited.  No reply.  Deleted.  Put it back up, and it's sparkling clean, it will make AdSense and Hubpages happy.
       
       These kinds of things are  what happens when I don't work for 2 days. People who do have harder jobs than me can't reply right away, I get fussy, then throw a sh*t fit on the forums.
       
       Do you think we might need counseling now?
       
       Sorry, I'll go jogging next time I see the this kind of thing materializing!  I kept a copy of the old one that someone manually marked and will send that through email, that one only had one sentence that violated the TOS, and that was iffy at worst hence me contesting it.  In the larger scheme of things it isn't a big deal.  Like I said to that one guy who wanted to flex his e-muscles at me, just like brothers, sisters, and parents, you get pissed sometimes, but you love them and are incredibly grateful to have them in your life (well, can't say that for everyone but you can get the point without having that exact situation in your life).  Thanks for the communication!

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    frogdroppingposted 13 years ago

    I'm supposing the fact that when a hubs flagged and you don't get a concise 'because of the first picture and caption' kinda response it doesn't make things any easier.
    
    But - having been through the hub moderation process several times now - I can only say that the HP team were more than helpful. Funnily enough I just flagged one of my own hubs - wondered about a particular word I'd used, which came to me afterward that perhaps it will eventually trip the filter.
    
    Anyway - looking at what Maddie posted before me you fully self-moderated. For the record I wouldn't take it personally. I mean - look at me ... the much lauded e on my profile, the supposed assumption I get special treatment. I don't. Ever. I get the same as anyone else. Everytime I've fallen foul of the TOS I haven't lost sleep over it. I'm perfectly sure the team have no favorites - it's all just business

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       Bronson_Hubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Si, senor frog, si.
       
       I had a moment of arrested development that, despite the initial immaturity and spinning around a mistake, I could have just deleted it and re-posted it knowing it didn't violate the TOS, which I eventually did.  It's clean as a whistle for the big 3: AdSense the subsidiary of Google the grand-daddy who works with our beloved Hubpages, the partner.  I did a hub on the TOS for all 3 sites for 411 on alcohol and tobacco posting which was among all the possible violations that I duly noted.
       
       Your e doesn't get you any special privileges?  Despite the up's and downs of this emo thread, a lot of funny people came out to share their opinion and it's actually fun to read looking back now.  It wasn't a total wash!
       
       You even get to see people who write hubs about inner-peace and successful business communication totally losing it and going a few levels below the initial tone I started with.  That right there made the thread worthwhile.
       
       And guys!  Stop saying "You need to read the TOS and stop this entitlement, don't ruin it for all of us"!  The hub didn't violate any TOS, someone manually moderated it, it was not a bot that made a mistake, and was probably someone who really likes valentines day, or just doesn't like my face, or both.  Hence I called BS, because it was.

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    yenajeonposted 13 years ago

    Yay this forum was actually helpful to me. So the word "butt" cannot appear in the title even when referring to butt exercises. So what word of the following words is allowed: (if anyone happens to know that'd be great!)
    
    butt-no
    buttocks
    booty
    derriere
    backside
    bottom
    a**?

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       DoorMattnomoreposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Ba-donka-donk? 

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