censorship and an abuse of power

1. 60

   Dave Mathewsposted 12 years ago

   Three weeks ago I was prohibited from giving answers in the "Answer" Section, because I offended some bleeding heart, with something I said in an answer. I did not swear or call names, they just didn't like what i had to say.
   
   A week and a half ago, I was prohibited from giving comment in the "Forum" section for a similar like response. In the forum section, since it is interactive, sometimes people get heated up and offensive, including myself but the worst I would ever do is to insinuate or tell someone they are stupid.
   
   Today I went again to the "Answer" section and was giving  an answer to a question, only to find out, that once again, I am prohibited from giving answers.
   
   I understand that Hub Pages has their rules and regulations to follow and we as writiers also must abide by them but there are some bleeding hearts out there that take offense at the slightest little word and go crying to Hub.
   
   These bleeding hearts cry about anything and everything, that they don't like and Hub listens and invokes its power of censorship, without any kind of arbitration in such matters. I feel this is wrong.
   
   I am not even certain that there is actually a human sitting at a desk, to check out these possible complaints. It might simply be a computer terminal and a certain word trips a warning, and generates an automatic ban.
   
   What ever the situation is I feel that something has to be done to properly investigate complaints so that writers are not unjustly punished.

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      Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      HA!  HP doesn't guarantee fairness, Dave.  No content site ever does.  HP is a business, money overrides fairness.  This is America, it's the way we roll!
      
      
                                               

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      1. 60

         Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Randy what you say may be true but I believe that the authority to take such action is getting out of control, I mean never has any site arbitrarily without investigating taken such steps without a sense of fairness.

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            Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry Dave, but every content site I've written on has the same rules.  Fairness is not guaranteed on these sites.  I've been told this personally by the-powers-that-be of other sites.  Here it is a no-brainer as they have banned me before with no explanation at all, and even one time they claimed was "accidental".    It's useless to complain to those who do not care.
            
                                                     

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   2. 0

      blake4dposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      By the way DM. I could care less, but a lot of people online take ALL CAPS to be a reason to ignore what you are saying. It is considered yelling, you know that right bro? If I am being a dork, I take the hat proudly and scurry away.

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         Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Blake if you think I'm not upset and angry, think again, and if yelling is effective, then why not?

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            blake4dposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            And slowly the dorky poster slithers back to the hole where no capital letters or crimes are ever committed. ( I was just speaking for realtive Internet communications, I know a lot of people who will not even read an email or blogpost that is in all caps, I know etticut shmeticit...but you seemed to want to be herd...) and down the rabbit hole he goes.
            ;-)

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   3. 82

      Attikosposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Dave, I think Hub management is just trying to keep the site from turning into another Netchat flame war zone. More power to 'em.
      
      That being said, you're dealing, given your opinions, with leftists who are reacting both to your posts' content and the strength with which you state it.  The first instinct of the left, whenever it gains power anywhere, even the minute power of complaint in an Internet forum, is to censor dissent. You see it on every leftist site on the Net, from MoveOn to KOS to ad infinitum. They all state openly that people who disagree with their orthodoxy are not welcome.
      
      The only places leftists thrive intellectually is in their own echo chambers. They would like nothing better than to suppress dissent on Hap Pages as well, but I don't believe the managers here will let that happen. Take their aggression toward you and your posts as a compliment.

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2. 82

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   Honestly, I don't think you should care so much about answering random questions on the internet.  Approaching things online emotionally is what gets me/us/people in trouble.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's not so much about answering questions, as it is the prohibition from answering questions.

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         psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         And being very upset that they decided someone isn't allowed to do it anymore.  They get to decide who can play with their toys.

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         1. 60

            Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            The "Answers" and the "Forum" sections are there so that writers can interact with each other. Hub should not be interfering with this interaction, it is not their business.

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               psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Um, it is very much their business, their website and their forum on their servers that they designed and they pay to maintain--for the purpose of getting more people to write more hubs and make them more money.  If you want an un-moderated forums, there are plenty of them out there.

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3. 94

   SmartAndFunposted 12 years ago

   I honestly don't mean to sound rude, although this probably will, but here goes: You could start your own forum that you are the admin of. That way, you would wield the power and make the rules. Hubpages' forum is basically a free service that people may choose to use or not. So if you don't like how it is run, you don't have to choose to use it. You can start your own that suits your personal needs much better. (No snark intended, believe it or not.)

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4. 61

   Browergal68posted 12 years ago

   Whatever the case may be, I agree with you Dave. Where is the fairness? Where has the Freedom of Speech gone? We are getting to the point of being programmed robots. Only answering what we know the "MAN" wants to hear.

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5. 82

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   Freedom of speech is not a principle that applies to a private business.  As mentioned about, why not start your own site?

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      blake4dposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed, freedom of speech is not something you get paid for generally, in fact quite the opposite. You pay for dues to speak for your own opinions. Sometimes you have to pay for your own website. Free speech is a very respectable thing to stand for, but this is free access to high tech servers, ones that you don't own. The owner of the server gets to be their own private island. Free speech is not a by product of anything that runs Google Adsense ads beside your words, not is the freedom to say anything protected on any website that has a Force Majure or Terms of Service agreement. Sorry, this is not America or Earth, this is the Web.

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   2. 60

      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry but what about the First Amendment of the Constitution?

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         blake4dposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Freedom of Information act covers online speech, writing, at least on a website like this. The electronic domain is not part of any country, check your Supreme Court rulings. Your First Ammendment Speech is covered in the material world, but if you publish a book. You can sell it in a store, place it on a stand and sell it in the street , you can even do performance theatre of it and sell tickets, or scream it verbatum on the street for free. But you do not have the right to do that outside the boundaries of the American soil. Internet does not have USA on your webaddress@gmail.com, neither does WWW. It may not be fun, but this realm is not part of America, you are an independent contractor choosing to work for a company that exists on foreign soil per se. You are not an employee of Hub Pages in San Francisco. You are Dave Mathews working over fiberoptic wires independently from your home. Your writing is published in on the WWW and Internet.
         
         As the TOS states clearly here and almost all websites you write for...
         
         HubPages reserves the right to modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Service or any portion thereof at any time, without liability to You or any third party. In addition, HubPages, in its sole discretion, may terminate Your password, account or use of or access to the Service (including Impression services as further described below), and remove and delete any Hubs or Content, for any reason.
         
         Does that sound like free speech is protected by the TOS to you. You do not get paid for free speech for a living at home do you? No. This is a job, contract labor, no matter what we like to call it. The owner of the equipment has the right to do as they will. Your right to free speech is covered only by your right not to speak at all, if you so choose.
         
         But that would be no fun. That is my best answer Dave. Keep on  Hubbing. Blake4d

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            blake4dposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Plus I just checked, you are in Canada anyway. Don't you guys still have an English Monarch on your money...free speech my Arizona arse. LOL

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               psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               What has being a member of the commonwealth got to do with anything?  Recent results suggest Presidents are considerably harder on free speech than Governors General.

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                  blake4dposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  OK My bad, once again I will skulk back to my Hobbit hole. But does the Canadian ( is it called a Constitution there? ) guarantee the citizens of the Commonwealth free speech?

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                     Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Quite extensive rights
                     
                     http://www.unac.org/rights/actguide/canada.html

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                     psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     In Canada it is currently covered under the Charter of Rights and Freedom.  The whole idea as currently expressed originates from England in 1689 Bill of Rights and so could be say to originate from (or equally against, on behalf of parliament) the British monarchy.

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                        blake4dposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Okay I know better than to go to bat with Canadians, I was honest in my ignorance. I am glad to hear it. Then you need to inform Dave, he was arguing the US Constitution...suddenly I was in a tailspin. I am completely unprepared to defend another country and their civil liberties. None the less, we are talking not in the USA, Canada, or Iceland...The Internet and WWW may as well be Mars. The rules are certainly not governed by the American Bill of Rights or Constitution, as you both just proved, quite well.
                        
                        I leave the sword of liberation and justice in the capable hands of your collaborative minds, wits, and the muses of fair Canada to defend this hub when I am gone. 4...3....2...1.... ( Blake4d has left the Internet.)

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                        1. 60

                           Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Blake: Since Hub Pages is American not Canadian only the laws concerning freedom of speech and freedom of press for the USA might apply, furthermore since Hub Pages has their own bylaws possibly the constitution of the US. does not apply.

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                     2. 60

                        Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I am completely aware of My "Rights" under the Canadian Charter of Rights, but since Hub Pages is an American company and not Canadian, the Charter does not apply.

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         psycheskinnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, it doesn't relate to private enterprises.  It applies to the government and public areas.

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            SmartAndFunposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            This is the point that Dave needs to come to understand. HP is a business, and they have the right to moderate what is said on their forums.

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               Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Dave understands that Hub is a business, but Hub permits these bleeding heart liberals, or Communists, or Muslims or whoever to lodge a complaint about some little comment, because they do not like the words used, and Hub without thoroughly examining the comment and its context and the motivation behind the comment, arbitrarily decides to ban someone from commenting. Maybe Hub should first look at the questions being asked and determine if the question is proper to be asked.

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                  SmartAndFunposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  That's how it is, though, and maybe they need a better system, but it's what they are able to do with the resources they have. If you don't like it you can find somewhere else to post. I believe it works both ways for people on both sides of these heated debate topics. You also have the same recourse available to you, which is to file a complaint with HP about posts that you find offensive or hostile. I have seen posters on both sides of these types of hot-button subjects complain that the other side gets better treatment, which makes me think it's probably somewhat equal.

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6. 61

   Browergal68posted 12 years ago

   Ok blake got me there... Just a newbie in an ocean of sharks...

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7. 79

   Healthy Pursuitsposted 12 years ago

   If you're using the Freedom of Speech to be a schmuck, people are going to object, because they have the right to be heard, too, without being slapped down and stomped for having an opposing opinion. Why not just learn to debate with your brain instead of injecting so much negative emotion and aggressiveness into it? It's not like your head will become the next ball in play if your point isn't the winning point.

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8. 82

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   I don't even know which law would apply to a website: owner location, server location or international? [shrug]

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9. 82

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   The tendency to say rude things and stereotype groups as all being the same and all being [something bad] is probably exactly the kind of thing that gets your privileges yanked.

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      Uninvited Writerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      As is attacking people.

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10. 60

    MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago

    Why do so many people forget that freedom of speech also includes the right to tell someone to shut up?  The ONLY entity that doesn't have the right to tell an individual to shut up is the Government.  Any private citizen or business has the right to not have to listen to anyone they don't want to.  Your boss can fire you for saying something they don't like... a business owner can refuse you service... an individual can make you leave their home or property... and Hubpages can keep you from posting or answering questions.  It's a matter of your rights not surpassing THEIR rights to run their business/property as they see fit. Sorry Dave they don't have to listen to what you want to say.

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       paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       That was very well said.

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