Going to College Without Financial Aid

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   MountainManJakeposted 11 years ago

   Should someone go to college if they have to pay for everything?  Will it be worth it, or will the kid just drop out from stress and financial burden?

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      There is absolutely no reason to demand that others pay for your education.  Any child, for instance, that refuses to work and earn their own way isn't likely to work after getting a degree, either.
      
      While true that one is unlikely to be able to pay for a nice car (or any car), a 4g phone, nice apartment with lots of junk food, and lots of play and entertainment while also paying school costs, there isn't even one of those things that other people should be reasonably expected to pay for, either.
      
      It is still quite possible to earn your own way through college.  If you don't want the strain and effort, don't go.

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      1. 65

         MountainManJakeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I agree with you.  I don't think people should beg for hand outs.  However, everyone isn't always able to earn their way to college.  For instance, I got a 3.8 GPA in high school.  I completed all of the classes I needed in order to get the school offered scholarship.  The only problem was that I was in a small school in a small town where the scholarship that was offered would only pay a fraction of the costs.  That school was also no where near where my parents lived.  So I would have to move out, split rent with room mates, buy food and everything else while also paying for books, fees and the rest of tuition.  I chose not to do this.  Those who did ate ramen noodle every day and got fat and lazy.  Their health affected their grades and their lives.  At the end of it all, if you make it through, you have a piece of paper with no relative work experience.  I think we are in a world now where if you want something, don't ask for it, make it.  If you can't find a job, make a job. 
         
         Thanks for the response Wilderness!

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            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Well, I didn't eat Ramen noodles.  It was macaroni & cheese from a box.  No room mates, either - I rented a single bedroom (with closet) in an "apartment" house - bath was shared with 4 other renters and the family downstairs had a second bath.  Shower early or it's cold, cooking facilities was a hotplate on the dresser and walk the 1/2 mile or so to school.
            
            Most today make the choice you did - it isn't worth the effort and deprivation if they can't get someone else to pay for it.  And for many, that is the right choice but for those wanting to go to college badly enough it is quite possible to so by dint of your own efforts.

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            1. 65

               MountainManJakeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Also, when did you go to college?  If it wasn't in the last 10 years this conversation is irrelevant.

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                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  It was not in the past decade.  On the other hand, my son graduated 5 years ago, with no help from me but a place to live for 2 of his 4 years and no loans.  His wife graduated last year - loans, but 4 kids makes it tough to do anything else.  Another daughter in law will graduate next year with no help and not owing a dime.
                  
                  Irrelevant, my eye.  It was possible in the past, it is possible now.  It's just that few kids are willing to accept the effort and deprivation that it requires now just as it did 40 years ago.  Life in the real world, as an adult responsible for yourself, isn't easy, and kids today have very often had everything handed to them by someone else; they just aren't willing to step up to the plate and do it themselves.

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   peeplesposted 11 years ago

   Yes but they should go to a school they can afford. Start out at a tech school where tuiton is lower. They should never get loans. Work their butts off, eat beans and noodles and live a Dave Ramsey lifestyle. Now to be honest I can't say much because when I went to college I was still a ward of the state so my college was paid for by the state, but if I had to do it all over again I would want the reward of knowing I did it myself.

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3. 61

   Zelkiiroposted 11 years ago

   If you're gonna go to college for anything actually interesting and/or fun and/or fulfilling and/or stimulating (English, Art, Theater), then you're just screwed no matter what you do, because society hates those of us who prefer the humanities.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Why would you say society hates those preferring humanities?  We all like art, of one kind or another.

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         Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah, everyone likes art to a degree, but when times get tough, those are the first classes in school to be gutted and the first jobs in the workplace to be slashed.

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            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            True, they don't put much food on the table.  From the work itself - not the income it might produce.
            
            I do have to agree with cutting those classes when something has to be cut.  Far better to cut choir, art and the marching band than any of the three R's.  For the vast majority taking those classes they are for fun, for entertainment, and are just not in the same category as learning how to read or add.  Or even tear an engine apart and put it back together.

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               Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               And worse yet, it makes sense, but...but it still sucks!

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                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes it does.  I now have grandchildren taking music and I would hate to have them lose out on that.  Personally I think that, at a minimum of through high school, some courses need to be there that are designed not so much to learn but to increase the quality of life of the learner.
                  
                  By the time college comes around those courses should probably be limited to those that will use them for income production and those that can foot the bill themselves.  I don't see grants, scholarships, etc. as something to purchase entertainment with.

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4. 72

   Reality Bytesposted 11 years ago

   If it is simply an education that is desired, self study works very well.

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   1. 61

      Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Though it probably won't fly very far on a resume.

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      1. 72

         Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Well that desire is more than just education. 
         
         I talked to someone two days ago working on a Master's degree.  He is still under the belief that there is an overwhelming number of people seeking someone to code personal websites.  He was not aware that people would choose to use Wordpress over spending thousands on a site.
         
         His "professors" also have him believe that there is no money to be made designing apps?

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            Zelkiiroposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Must be Opposite Day where he lives. Designing apps is pretty much printing money right now.

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            1. 72

               Reality Bytesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               IMO, it is the lack of any entrepreneurial instincts.  The professor is more comfortable with a "Dilbert" like existence rather than taking any risks.

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5. 79

   Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years ago

   We are rearing the second or third (or more) generation of kids who are given cars the minute they can drive - and then people are surprised when they expect someone to pay their way through school. I put myself through school while divorced with two little kids.  It took a while, and it was tough, but I would not trade what I learned from it (academically, or life's lessons).

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6. 79

   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   I got my education under a socialist system, which does make life a lot easier
   
   You need to start by applying for every possible scholarship out there.
   
   Then you decide how much you can work without jeopardizing your grades.
   
   Than you are very honest about your chances of getting all the way through the degree.
   
   Then you look at what the earning potential is and what the odds of not getting a job are.
   
   Then you take the best calculated risk you can.
   
   My hairdresser dropped out 3/4 through and financially-speaking she is screwed for the rest of her life.  these things can happen. No-one can help her pay off her loan, and she made what she thought was a reasonable decision and she lost.
   
   Some of you seem to act like there is any choice other than a loan.  A lot of people have families that have no savings and low earnings.  The take a huge risk or they miss out.  It is scary. Their parents are not giving them cars, they don't even own cars. If they choose wrong their lives are ruined.
   
   If the family has the money, heck no I would not make the kid take a commercial tuition loan.  Take a loan from your family at no interest.  That would make much more sense.

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      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      "I got my education under a socialist system, which does make life a lot easier."  for the student at least, not so much for the one picking up the tab.

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      1. 79

         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         That would be me.  I earned enough that i have a fully funded 401k and I will not draw a pension at all.  That alone makes it a net profit for the country.
         
         Socialist countries have their own logic.  It adds up to lower taxes and also more services.  So if that is a problem, problems rock.

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         1. 94

            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Lower taxes I highly doubt.  More services I highly doubt.  I don't think you will find a socialist country that spends half what the US does on just the services of the military.  I also don't think you will find a socialist country that gives it's citizens nearly the wealth capitalism does.
            
            Of course, if you want to call the very few countries with enormous per capita resources (that primarily go into the pockets of it's leaders) socialist you will find a few.

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7. 65

   MountainManJakeposted 11 years ago

   You guys are great.  A bit aggressive, but great.  Keep it up!

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8. 75

   Shanna11posted 11 years ago

   Go to an inexpensive college. Just because you got into a 40k a year school without scholarship doesn't mean you SHOULD go there or HAVE to go there. It may look great, but debt is a scary thing (at least for me).
   
   I work three part time jobs and my grades suffer from it. Not hideously, but they're not as great as they could be if I didn't have to work.
   
   It's kind of an unfortunate circle. I need a scholarship because my parents can't afford to help me out. I need good grades to get that scholarship. I need to work to stay alive to get good grades, and it's extraordinarily hard to get stellar grades while working as well.
   
   So a lot of those who need the scholarship money the most are the ones who are also working really hard and can't always keep their grades up to the necessary level.
   
   Honestly, I'd love to just learn on my own. Give me some books and some practice tests and I guarantee I will teach myself and pass a final exam to prove I know the material. No homework that way-- I would give just about anything to avoid homework. Generally it's completely useless.
   
   That was just a collection of random college-related thoughts I had swimming about upstairs.

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