So YOU Say........

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   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   Although parents say that they encourage their children's individuality, in reality, they want their children to conform to the family construct and to be exact replicas of them. Children who conform to the family construct are rewarded and seen as easy children who do not give their parents trouble.
   
   Conversely, children who are more nonconformist and individualistic by nature are viewed as difficult and hardheaded. Parents usually use overt or subtle methods to make such children conform. Some children are even ostracized or disfavored by their parents because they do not conform.  A few parents even go as far as disowning such children.  Sure, parents "say" that they appreciate their children's uniqueness when the opposite is true in many instances.  Do you agree/disagree with this?
   

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      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That depends on what you mean by conform. By not conforming are they robbing stores, selling drugs and or shooting people?

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         gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         By not conforming I mean not conforming to the prevailing societal modus operandi or particular familial construct.  I do not mean illegal activities at all.   For example, in a religious family, a child decides to become an atheist or be spiritual instead of religious.  Or in an athletic family, a child decides to be artistic and intellectual.  You now see where I am going.   I have written several hubs on this topic.

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            Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It's funny you should bring this up because I've had the very same conversation with a friend lately. A friend is struggling because her second son is nothing like her first who is a math and science kid. They are trying to make him take chemistry and biology in grade 12 while he more interested in the arts. I tried to explain that those sciences would only drag his mark down and make it difficult for him to have a high enough average to get into a liberal arts program. I have one kid in University and another entering grade 12 next year and what I've learnt is they should take what the know will get them a good mark. If math is not your thing an engineer is not meant to be.

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               gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I totally concur with your intelligent premise.  However, MOST parents don't get it whatsoever.  They believe that their children are or should be exact replicas of them.  They contend that if they like or believe in something, then "THEIR CHILDREN' should do likewise. 
               
               They are not intelligent enough or too self-involved to realize that their children are individuals in their own right, not mere appendages of them.   There are many immature parents out there who view parenting as a power game with their children.   There are parents who see their children as inferiors and lesser people. 
               
               They believe that as parents, they have the right to FORCE their children to believe and do as they want, forget about the innate wishes of the child.  That is why most people have less than positive feelings regarding their parents that range from dislike to outright hatred.  Some disassociate themselves from their parents altogether.

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                  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Mostly from a religious aspect I think. Do you know how many times while I was a teenage and even as an adult adults told me that I just have to believe in God. This is something very dear to the religious. I think perhaps to a lesser extent with academics but it still can be powerful. I'm trying to insist my children get at least a University degree before moving on to a community college if they desire. After that they are on their own. I could care less what they believe as long as it doesn't interfere with their education or their relationships with other people.

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                     wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You will push your kids hard into an academic learning program rather than a blue collar trade school?  Why?

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                        Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Because that degree will open doors for them. I also know none of my kids are the outdoorsy geter done type. If they had interest in a blue collar trade school I'd encourage it. I have one studying psychology, one wants to got to film school and either be a film director or animator and one want to be writing code.

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                           wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Understood, and for the most part I would agree.
                           
                           All but the implication that only an academic degree will open doors.  In my 15 years as an electrician (trade school) I have watched as at least a dozen co-workers moved on to bigger and better things.  Mostly in starting and running their own electrical business, but also in gaining an invaluable knowledge base of real field conditions before going on to electrical engineering school.
                           
                           There are, indeed, doors that can open to a trade school graduate; doors that are unlikely to be available to those with an academic degree.

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                              Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              I completely agree, that's why I ask them to get a degree before they specialize. If they wanted to own an electrical service company, why not study business first? One of my kids wants to be an animator, so I suggested film studies first and he agreed. If after film he wants to animate think of the knowledge he'd have compared to others.

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                                 psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 The exception being some very well-paid trade jobs that are still best entered into via apprenticeship.

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                                    Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Are you saying a University graduate can't get an apprenticeship? Most community colleges where I am offer apprenticeship training.

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                                       psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       I am saying several high paying trades still actively seek apprentices straight out of high school, and would be excellent career choices.  And yes, they generally will not select university graduates.  And for good reasons. 
                                       
                                       IMHO, "apprenticeship training" at a college is not the same thing as an apprenticeship where your mentor takes you though your full education to licensing and retains you in full time paid employment throughout this process and beyond until you want to strike out on your own. The day this path to trademanship goes extinct will be a sad day.

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                                          Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          Okay, well Education systems must be different.
                                          
                                          Thanks

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                                             wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                             Apparently.  While my apprentice training was at Boise State University (an academic university) it was from a subdivision with only trade training.  In addition to 4 years of trade oriented classroom training at night, I was required to perform 8,000 hours of documented work history with a contractor before graduating to the "journeyman" level.
                                             
                                             The process is extremely valuable for the more highly skilled trades.  Missing out on either the practical or book side would be very detrimental.

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                                                Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                Electricity, has to be one of the most difficult on the brain of the trades. I've done a little of each, and can tell you wiring requires a lot of thought. At least it does for the inexperienced. I spent last summer trying to figure out what to do with the 5 hidden juncture boxes I found in my basement. I was unable to wrap my mind around the entire project and had to take each section at a time.

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                     gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You have so eloquently and succinctly stated your again intelligently and logically spot on analysis of the issue at hand.  Many traditionally religious people believe that EVERYONE should be as they are or they are errant and will burn forever.   It is hard to convince such very delusional people that there are other forms of belief that are not within their particular purview.    Even in families, many religious parents maintain that their "belief", "faith" is the only legitimate one to their children.   Some children rebel   against such narrow minded stupidity, of course, and go their own way- I DID!   As for me, I do not believe in raising children within a religion, that is stifling.   However, I believe in teaching children sold humanistic and metaphysical ethical principles.   I find that I am the most comfortable with other New Agers, metaphysicians, atheists, and humanists.   
                     
                     This post pertains not only to religious matters; it is easily applicable regarding other matters. There are some sports minded families particularly men who frown upon their sons and other male relatives not participating in athletics and sports.  They consider such boys and men to be well.........effeminate.  There are so many categories where parents and relatives believe that THEIR relatives should be LIKE THEM, no more, no less.  Those who diverge from the family construct are considered to be the odd ones out, the black sheep.   There are people who have absolutely NOTHING in common with their families.  Their families are...............S-T-R-A-N-G-E-R-S!

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   Kids do need to be willing to do as their parents ask on any major issue, because their parents are legally responsible for what they do and how it affects themselves and other people.

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      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      But they don't have to believe what their parents do.

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         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         No one has to believe anything.  People can only effect each others behaviors, not their thoughts.

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