The Jews,Gypsies,Homosexuals,Jehovas Witnesses,Disabled, Free masons and many others were put into concentration camps at the hands of the nazis and still we get people who deny that it happened. Why do they do they deny it, are they afraid or ashamed again I ask why?
I think it all goes back to that old saying, "History repeats itself." This is just my opinion, of course, but perhaps the people who are denying it are denying it simply because they don't want something along those lines happening again. What those people fail to realize is that history only repeats itself if you don't learn from it.
You know your probably right there.
But I mean all that suffering people endured and survived just so that some of society can say it did not happen.
It makes me seethe and reel, what is wrong with people today?
Why concern yourself with what other people do and say? Lead by setting a positive example instead of questioning the thoughts and actions of others and you will no longer seethe and reel with rage.
Yes, it is sad what happened to those people. However, the only thing any of us can do is move on with our lives and not allow it to happen again. Stand up for your beliefs and stop the religious persecution that is going on today. And yes, there is religious persecution everywhere. Muslims are targeted, Pagans are targeted, Christians are targeted, as is every other religion. If you don't want the Holocaust to happen again and you really want to hold these people's memories close to you, spread the word of tolerance as that is what they would have wanted. If there had been tolerance during World War II, there would have been no Holocaust.
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a precious gift and that is why it's called the present.
who are the persons that deny it ?
I don't know anybody with that idea
It should not be denied or disbelived..it is documented history...many things we know , that really have and do happen get denied, because people take their own opinions, make theories and run with it, I think...
The Holocaust did happen and I am very sorry to know that it did...it is just a sad part of world history we do not really talk about in society.
If you could show me those documents. Real ones from concentration camps that add up to several millions. Or at least serious research results that worked with those documents - I will promptly change my tune.
unfortunatly, I have no documents, but I am sure I could find some in my tenagers history book ..we are all allowed our opinions, so I do respect yours ..the numbers I have no idea, I think possibly there were more than actualy documented.
( my Appalachian heritage are german/americans, and the other half of me is Hopi..so I do not dismiss any possibility, I just believe many people did die and suffer due to the Holocaust , just like it has happened with every culture through the history of time )
look at my pages on homosexual victims and then if your still unsure google them and it should come up with the names of the 2 half million jews that died in auschwitz and the 100000 homosexuals not to mention the half a million gypsies that died in that one death camp alone.
I have Dutch Masons in my family tree and it is recorded (family bible) that thousands of Freemason were sent to concentration camps and never seen from again. Masons keep pretty good records. To think millions died is realistic and those that take a different stance on this; lets just say may have a different agenda.
People choose to believe what they want to believe...sad, but true....
thirty million people died nothing to deny . its sad history is full of humanity blood by despite like Hilter
Thank you for mentioning the Jehovah Witnesses. I see you know your fatcs as well. You had the Star of David to which many people knew. But few ever heard of 'The Purple Triangle' to which the Witenesses were known as. They went to their deaths because they refused to denounce JEHOVAH. Some did and were promised to be freed, but they signed the paper and were killed anyway. And those that did not sign were killed as well, but many that refused to denounce JEHOVAH did survive the concentration camps.
Not only the Jews, Gays and Gypsies ... 69 million people were killed in the Second World wide Warring ... during the 1939-45. A.D. Period.
Those killed, were "mostly" innocents.
Those who say, that "6 million" Jews, never died, in consequences of Naziism's induced butcherings ... are either blind, or illiterate fools, or politicians.
But Greater Fools are those, who remember their own kind' 6 million killed in WW II, and see to it that the other "63 million" killed ... are never mentioned !
I think they are deny it because there are lots of unanswered questions about holocaust. I'm from a jewish family, however I'm christian. My granddad have been thruogh all that and he never said anything about lampshades and human soap etc, etc. These horrific stories are pure lies, and that is what these people deny. I believe that the holocaust was a horrible thing but I do not think that we have to pay compensation untill our life ends.
Its possible but you see my family are from holland and in the war my family helped jewish people and prisoners of war and payed the price for it by the gestapo.
My great aunt was sent to belsen and some of the things she witnessed was awful she died a few years ago but the lamp shades are true look up ILSA KOCH ON GOOGLE she was the commandant of buchenwalds wife and an evil bitch x
WOW..I did Google it and she was a very evil person..I do not even think I can use the word human..
very interesting information you have shared. Thank You
People in general are weak-minded and will believe loony conspiracy theories while denying evident history if the right person tells them to or if doing so will make them feel important or excited.
Holocaust deniers are in the same bag as "Bush planned 9/11" nuts and the like. They may have differing motivations but they are all just delusional fools.
The bag needs to be thrown in the river and forgotten.
someone mentioned history repeating itself.... What do you think Obama will be doing when he denies elderly and disabled or terminally ill people like myself health care.
Only the strong survive? hmmmmmmmmm
I never thought about it this way..just to think Obama..History repeating itself..
if it were to happen, I too, am up the creek without a paddle..I am also permanently disabled with some grim health issues building..
I don't even want to think about this anymore..I am not strong, maybe my art talents will keep me alive???
That was the most idiotic statement I have ever read in these forums. Have you no decency or shame? People were massacred by the millions, and you compare yourself to them? Disgusting doesn't begin to describe that statement.
Answering the title question - yes, I can. Based on available evidence (or rather total lack of evidence) I am pretty close to denying it myself.
Maybe you should visit some of the places that have historic accounts and articles from the events of that era... my father visted one of the camps in Germany after the war in the fifties and he did not say it was all make believe he said it was a dreadful place not a bird was singing there.
The British war museum in London did not make the items on display up for show.
May be you should stop assuming that you know anything about total strangers
Lidice in the former czeckoslovakia why not look up that one,
reinhard heydrich was assassinated in prague and in the town of Lidice the ss arrived and a hell of a reprizal was taken out consisting of
all the women and children being sent to concentration camps and every man and animal was shot and buried.
the town scrubbed off the face of the maps and levelled and there is a shrine to that town on the mount of Lidice.
Another town in france had the same thing happen i forget the name but the reprizal i wont forget, the ss brought out all the women and children and locked them in the church and all the men and boys were shot and the women and children in the church were burned alive.
It is true and researchable trust me it was on the tv and on google.
The nazis were so sick they made films of it and the mass shootings and all sorts believe me they really did kill millions they began to gas disabled victims in the 1930s as well lethal injections and they did not begin to gas jews until 1942 but still the nazis were in power from 1933 to 1945 that is a total of twelve years in that time millions did perish.
Misha, as someone who had grandparents die in concentration camps, I find your joking manner distasteful.
I'm afraid, relache, that he might not be joking. Whether he is or not, I also find it distasteful, and I didn't have any relatives involved in that particular debacle...unless you count that I believe we're all brothers and sisters.
It never ceases to amaze me when perfectly intelligent, likable people can argue about something that is clear and proven fact or minimize something that involved entire ARMIES and WHOLE COUNTRIES.
If he's been to the institutions that he implies he's been to, then he's seen plenty of evidence. For God's sake, Hitler and others were notorious record keepers. There are actually FILMS of some of the disgusting experiments they performed.
What more evidence does anyone need?
your very right even in the gestapo hq they had the documents and on arrival to camps they took photos and finger prints
Yes, I'm surprised and dismayed too. I'm afraid that when the WW2 generation dies, people who want to minimize the whole thing will want to "put the whole thing in perspective".
I'm afraid you may be right. This is exactly why history repeats itself (indeed, on a smaller scale it already has, more than once).
Ignorant people abound, but the Holocaust like all holocausts in any country and generation is no joking matter. We must all do what we can to fight atrocities.
It's not joking Relache. While not actively, I am researching this question for a long time, and though I did not arrive to the final conclusion yet, I am pretty close to calling it another great lie of the 20th century.
Just to clarify my point - I am not saying that Jews did not die in German concentration camps. It's an obvious fact - they dyed, and in big numbers. But nowhere close to those several millions that are circulating around. Those likely are grossly exaggerated, like 20 times.
but that's not denying.
Only putting the Holocaust in perspective.
As I said before, Misha is not denying.
Maybe if you could read properly ?
If this is directed at me, I can read perfectly well thank you, and the statement STILL stands. I can understand how it might be hard to believe the number, but that does not make it less true. Many millions of people died, 6 million is a CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE, as a result of the Holocaust; there are EXTENSIVE records of this, many kept by Hitler's goons themselves because they believed that they WERE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG. If he's been studying as much as he says, he's seen much of the same evidence (perhaps more) that I have, and is remaining willfully ignorant; facts are facts.
I understand that there are PLENTY of lies going around this century, but minimizing the suffering off all the people in many countries (NOT JUST JEWISH PEOPLE) who died in German camps is just unfathomable.
Hitler's goal was to wipe the entire EARTH clean of Jews and people he felt were sub-standard. His book outlines his intentions and plans to do JUST THAT. In Europe, he was 66% of the way there when it came to the Jewish people. It was intended to be a worldwide campaign, and given his plans, he actually DID NOT get very far.
I actually regret I got involved in the topic, it is too emotional and I did not complete my research yet, so I lack both data and conviction to defend the point.
I strongly suspect the numbers are greatly inflated, I don't know how much. This in no way denies the tragedy, and as Tantrum said rather puts it in perspective in relation to other tragedies of the 20th century, which were plenty. I just leave it as it is at least for now.
I am sorry Relache if I offended you or any other Jew - it was not really intended like that, and my first post was worded quite bad, as I see now.
I am outta here
If the numbers were inflated or underestimated-- we still can't get our minds around the enormity of this tragedy.
The numbers-- whatever they are, are great and horrible. We need to remember, to keep it from happening again.
Yes, we must remember.
I did not intend to post on this thread anymore, but since you address me directly, I have a question to you - Rochelle, do you remember this also?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_t … utionaries
They also killed Christians and any other than white skinned-toned human beings they hated, as well as handicapped individuals...that would jack up the death toll considerably fast don't you think?
Its not an exagerated figure 6 million its an known estimate because its actually alot more than that what died some not documented but there are a lot of mass graves still undiscovered in germany and europe and in poland there was another camp known as sobibor, many who arrived were murdered instantly it was a death camp, there was an escape which was very brave and a good few got away but those who remained died in gas chamber and the camp was liquidated, now if you dont believe please look it up, There is film about this escape from sobibor please watch it if you have time x
My mother is a German...NOT a Nazi, but not even she denies it. My Grandfather was in the war...Not even he denied it. Unbelief does not alter the truth. Thank God for that!
"Concentration camps were established in Germany shortly after Hitler's assumption of power in 1933. Many of the Nazis' political opponents were arrested; Socialists, communists, Jews, gipsies, homosexuals, pacifists, Freemasons, trade unionists and Jehovah's Witnesses were amongst those imprisoned.
After the outbreak of war, new concentration camps were set up throughout Occupied Europe. Extermination camps were established to implement the 'Final Solution', the systematic killing of more than six million Jews."
from the Imperial war museum web site.
Why not ask them. There is no point in spending any more time here good night.
What's your problem ?
Don't you think if 1 mil. were killed, it's not the same as 6 mil. ?
that kind of 'history' is so updated ! People should move on and forget about numbers. Killing is horrible, no matter how many people involved.
1 or a 1000. Terrible anyway.
I am pointing out that I believe these people were killed even if others do not.. this follows on from an earlier post when we were asked if there was proof.
I really cannot be bothered to argue or discuss something with the people who disbelieve evidence as they are not likely to be persuaded by me or any one else.
but the proof asked was about numbers.
I really think that 6 mil weren't killed. I think it has to be less. Nevertheless I think it doesn't matter if it were 6 mil. or less. What matters is a lot of people have been killed for nothing worthwhile.
Tantrum...good point, you took the words right out of my mouth!
@ 2uesday....yes arguments with unbelieving subjects prove more than not to be fruitless.
But when you think of all those innocent humans who were killed you feel as if you want some justice for them. On the other hand...God will take care of it....
Why would your god do that ?
Take care in what way ?
And the homosexual 'sinners' that died then? What about them ?. Is he taking care of them as well ?
No god will be taking care of anything.
That's my belief.
I mean vengence is the Lord's. I'd rather not get in this discussion here because the topic at hand seems heated as it is. I cannot make you believe in God. I cannot prove something you do not believe in, which seems to be what you are doing here, is it not? Anyways...I respect that you believe what you believe even though I don't agree.
Hey, listen tantrum, I'm sorry for offending you, (but not for what I said...maybe how I said it?)
No hard feelings.....?!?!?
ok i am not saying this debate is rediculous... well... in a way i am because you want to know why people in America do not believe ( some dont) that there is any such thing as to what Hitler did. In the New York times back in the day I believe it was called. America was dealing with a war and even though it Hitler and the event was real it was not very well seen in the Newspaper and people did not speak about if for years it was all hush, hush publically. This is what I learned on a documentary about this and I believe it because Hitler had a reason to kill himself just like thousands of people. If you like my work come visit my hub...
I heard a special speaker once ... she was a really old lady who gave testimony to the fact that she and her sister were taken captive and put into concentration camps. She wrote a book called 'The Hiding Place.' Her name is Corrie TenBoon. I read this story as a teenager. It was a horrific account of their journey. It was my first taste of the evil that humankind is capable of. I cried through most of the book as I joined the sister's in their real life experience.
Excellent and amazing story...Also you should try to read Dietrich Bonhoeffer's story!!!
I saw a drama of Dietrich Bohoeffer's life story... You could have heard a pin drop at the end. My gut was in knots as I watched his story unfold.
Hello there i actually met corrie ten boom when i was a kid, you see my great aunt hid jewish people in arnheim, holland. she was sent to belsen for it and my great uncle shot by the gestapo.
She is a lovely woman plus the film is worse than the book it so sad but i admired her and she was a lovely woman and very brave her and her sister.
100% envious of that experience!
watching the Diary of Anne Frank is hard enough!
What a great honor for you to meet this lovely, humble yet powerful woman. Her life is such a testimony to the POWER of forgiveness. Thanks for chiming in. It is an honor to meet you too. You could probably tell us some stories passed down through your great aunt huh?
yes i could x
I lived in the windmill for a while until i was 4 and then moved to amsterdam with parents before came home to england my mother scottish my father was dutch x
My aunt used to hide the jewish people in the windmill then she would contact the resistance in the city through the usual way via the market stall and then they would come and collect the jewish people and take them to american and british linesx
Only one night it went wrong and an informer came into the resistance my uncle executed, my aunt sent to belsen not before she was tortured of course but she told them nothing she died when i was 5 but she was a brave lady and she gave them hell in gestapo head quarters x
AMAZiNG..You should write a book. This is greatly important content!
its not really because all the other people in the city were involved in the resistance but i have been writing it a bit only changing names because a lot still could get hurt like the informers family and such x
I have written three hubs explaining victims of the nazis why not take a look you might get a surprise x
Sounds like you have a mission and a story to tell .. I'll take a trip to your hubs and look for them.
And it wasn't directed to you. It was to Calpo.
I thought it was clear as I posted beneath him.
It was only a comment, because I thought he didn't read my earlier post.
I have ancestors from the Ukraine region also, none that I know of are Jewish-- but who knows. Suffering has been imposed on "groups" from all regions of the world. I also know of Armenian people who have their own Holocaust. It happens, and is forgotten over and over.
The 'remembering' should not be about revenge or retribution-- but about preventing it from being continually repeated.
We will never know the exact number of people who were killed under the rule of that regime. What we do know is that the annihilation was not limited to Jews, as others here have acknowledged.
My mother's family was exterminated during those years; children, grandparents, aunts, nieces, nephews, only because they were Polish and Catholic. Thankfully, my mother's immediate family emigrated to the US before the Holocaust began. The remainder of her family tree is burned to ashes in Poland.
Our family is one small story. In time, the numbers may become more exact, if the research continues. But I fear that the horror at the enormous atrocity of those years is fading, as the horror of the Armenian genocide faded even before the 1940s.
Are we humans destined to kill each other off from time to time? There are those who say that is the natural order. And so, now, we have nuclear weapons pointed at each other--kill and be killed.
As of now, the record for numbers of humans exterminated under a political regime belongs to the Nazis. How far away are we from breaking that record?
To deny the Holocaust is to deny that it can happen again.
holokautoma..yes it was..YOU FORGOT.
MILLIONS GREEK BROTHER under 400 years slavery under ottoman and juden subjects of the empire?
yes happen..you forgot one million ARMENIANS ww1,from turks?
2-3 million greeks at constntinople.smyrna asia minor..from turks that you that care for israel not say a word!!
for 1 million greeks-pontus black sea!!
for millions germans from eastern europe and eatern germany ..now is not any more at motherland!!
for christians who died from muslims...
for europeans who died from reds
for my country that is today DIED from efialtes..and others
Ignorant people abound, but the Holocaust like all holocausts in any country and generation is no joking matter. We must all do what we can to fight atrocities.
"Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be 'a myth,' it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.
How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Center 'NEVER HAPPENED' because it offends some Muslim in the United States?"
As an American observer and news enthusiast, it is the liberals who want to rewrite American history and say the things you do about 9-11 and not right wing or conservatives. They also have downplayed the Holocaust and that should NEVER be downplayed.
About the Holocaust - if you have ever visited or do visit the Holocaust Musuem in Washington, DC, you will experience the horrific magnitude done to millions of people from different countries. Walk in the shoes of David as his world changes drastically and ends at a young age.
The mood is somber, no one speaks as they walk in the steps that Jews experienced because they were 'different'. When you are finished, you no longer want to take issue with anyone who is 'different' from you, because to do so may ignite evil that was done to these victims, their families and loved ones. It does not matter what the numbers were - or if there were more or less. It was inhuman, incorrigible and evil. It should never have happened and we must NEVER let it happen it again to anyone of any religion, race or different way of life. And we must never forget or deny it.
People who deny those horrific events may not see that there was any wrong doing to begin with. How scary is that? Those are the people we should be afraid of now.
My thought here is this , all you have to have done in life is listen to a WW11 surviving soldier , they can tell you more about the haulicaust that even the books. In America , we stuff our veterans into the forget about them file. It amazes me that anyone can say ,"It didn't happen". Pure ignorance!
To deny some part of history as so terrible and unbelievable is not hard to understand if someone doesn't want to believe that humans can be so evil, or that a higher power didn't intervene.
Elie Wiesel has written the book, Night, which should be required reading, if it's not already, in high school. Any adult who hasn't read it should read it..
HI WG, I have meant to read the rest of the trilogy, but haven't as yet. Thanks for posting. I just took a walk and was thinking about the book Night, and how it had such an effect on me. I think Elie Wiesel is one of those extraordinary humans that we are fortunate was spared to tell the story.
I think it's tragic that we have to wait for history to inform us that a period of time was so terrible. Look at the current state of affairs in our world. Why is so little done? The famine in Somalia is heartbreaking and so wrong. The endless wars.. and we are too concerned with who did what or said this or that.
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