I was digging through some of my research and since a lot of it is philosophy based(meaning it's about answering questions and reasoning), I happen to cross an interesting tidbit I figured I would share with others and see what exactly that they thought about it.
It seems like a lot of people are questioning the Big Bang Theory and wondering what exactly caused it? Thus, setting off a chain reaction of other events, leading up to where we are today.
Now, many people would like to attribute that the God of religion was the one who set off the singularity required for the Big Bang Theory to be valid. And, in one way, I guess it could appear as if "religion" would have to totality of answers.
However, isn't it just as plausible that another conscious human being from another more advance Universe set off the singularity that caused the Big Bang?
I am only bring that up, because from a rational point of view, it is actually more plausible for that to be true than the explanation provided by religion's books.
Not only that, but considering that a conscious human being from another Universe having that kind of power, would be considered a god would they not?
It's just a thought.
Not only could a conscious entity have set off the big bang, their perception of time could be completely different from ours. Their perception of time as to ours could be as ours is to a quark in the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) . From their point of view they could be setting off one of these full-expansion-and-contraction suckers several times a day.
Sincerely yours as one lab rat to another,
but cagsil you said the big bang theory was last night? I'm confused again :
actually Cagsil I think anything is possible and I think it's a cool theory and one that makes sense to me that another universe could exist and create if that makes sense
Better wait a few months. BB is in trouble as of some new info this summer. The general consensus is it probably could not have happened the way previously thought.
We are not sure yet whether the model will need a major revision or if it will eventually be dumped.
Penrose has a new take on all this which gives us a universe with not one expansion, but many, based on recent background radiation data. There are even some that are saying it might be a static universe after all.
At this point, who knows? But as to another universe causing the expansion of this one, that has been a theory for a while, not of course that an individual may have done an experiment with black holes and caused our universe. But definitely about the relationship between black holes and other universes.
So there is still a lot to speculate about, and a great deal of other possibilities besides a god.
When is a theory about the Universe not under attack?
I'm sure that in the state that it is presently, it will be revised slightly. But, that doesn't change the outcome of what I said in this thread- (a) singularity or (b)cause and effect, either one works from the point of view that a much more advanced human being standing at the edge of another Universe would/could be the source which began our Universe's existence.
Yes, it's understood that Black Holes do have some effect on a Universe(s). And, yes I'll agree who knows?, but in this instance, as to the OP which is just a plausible as anything else. Which is the point.
I'm not doubting that. Then again, that also would depend on the definition one applies to a god to begin with. There are many that don't believe it's an entity and is just energy. Many believe in a higher power, but use the word god to describe that higher power, only because the attributes can be used to identify with. And, then you have those who believe religion's god is the primary source.
Right. Well this attack is being taken very seriously. It is going to result in major revisions and may spell the end of this theory altogether. Of course it may not. lol...
I get your point that one idea about a god is as speculative as any other, so really any speculation is just a bit of fun. The BB has always been a model, and therefore not meant to be taken as gospel.
If you don't know better you could create a model that says the moon puts eggs under chickens every night for man kind to eat. The model is sound because if reflects reality. There are eggs under chickens in the morning and people eat them. The facts are there, but there are a lot of facts missing. A model always includes the facts but it does not mean the working model reflects the true sum of all the facts. The model is the working explanation of the few facts at hand,
The fact that the moon has nothing to do with it is irrelevant until you know that. Once you know it it changes the model drastically. Now you have no reason for chickens to have eggs until you figure out that's the way they reproduce. With that bit of information the model is reformed. Suddenly it becomes obvious they are not there for man kind to eat. The original model is replaced.
So what do we know for a fact? We exist. The universe exists. Almost everything else we say about is a model of how and why.
I think the trick is not to believe anything. Wait and see what new evidence and understanding brings.
Interestingly Cagsil, I think that religions in general are often founded on such suppositions. Paganism has its basis in something similar: primative man looks at the world and it is full if mystery for him. He imagines the mechanism behind what he sees as something earthly rather than metaphysical. A culture is then developed around that belief in which thoughts and actions begin to rotate around that one idea.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to explore all such ideas.
The theory of the Big Bang was first presented by a Catholic priest after all.
Religions are a joke in general.
This part I explain as being "shock and awe" effect of being self aware(aware of one's own existence and the world they live in).
This would be understood coming from a primitive human being.
Tradition shows this yes.
It's not reasonable to explore things that are defeated by common sense.
Of course it was, considering he figured religion's god did it and one wave of a hand- "Let there be light and light existed".
well the Big Bang Theory was Gods little joke..he lit a fire cracker and started the whole thing
l have often thought that ´´God´´ brought about the big bang , if that is really how life began in our Universe.
If you thought of how to explain to a simple, pastural people of limited education, then the Genesis account of creation would be an excellent way of explaining how life began to them...
New insight? I had that same thought when I was doing mushrooms in the early seventies. It came from the same cow paddy as the shrooms.
Sure, but like the Panspermia theory, what created those advanced human beings from another Universe?
Using that train of thought? Doesn't dismiss the natural singularity that does happen. My example was for an example to simply say that advance humans could have initiated the singularity. Thus, making the statement that not only could it be a natural process but also that an advance human would be able to obtain the power to do so.
If it's man made (advance human beings) then how can it be a natural process?
This is very interesting. How did I miss this forum/question? Anyway, Yes, I have believed in the Big Bang Theory, but as a spontaneous explosion type of thing. I've never believed another person or God caused it. It just happened. However, I can follow your line of reasoning and logic and it could also be an explanation. We just don't know or have enough scientific proof at this time. I think, someday, maybe eons of years in the future this question is going to be answered. I'd love to be around at that time to see what the world comes up with, but I don't think I have that much longevity in me. I am also a believer in evolution as to why man is here where he is at this time. But, read Nell Roses hub on archeology - the Denisons Man or something like that. I forget the exact title, but you'll recognize it when you see it. It interjects another type of man other than Neanderthal that was alive at that time and could have inter-married/mated with Neanderthal woman etc. I guess this was just discovered recently. I think all this is so interesting.
Thank you Suzette. I figured you might enjoy this tidbit. And, you're absolutely correct, there might not be enough information. However, maybe there actually is to form this hypothesis.
The only drawback is that it does actually defeat of the self-serving god of religion and would mean that human beings are not specially created to serve a god and are only a minor annoyance to the Universe as a whole, as it stands presently.
But, would show that ability that the human species can evolve to given enough time to do so.
It's not bait.
It's rational thinking and it's more plausible than the superiority complex of the god of religion. Not to mention, you go from being something special? to just a dot in the existence of the Universe.
You think too highly of yourself.
Its bait, bait is better when its stealthy. You propose an alternate theory of how our world came to be. You introduce the possibility of a human being from another universe setting off the big bang, you then make this human being like a God. Here is what you are after, you want someone to say that's impossible. Then you can swoop in and say it makes as much sense as an imaginary sky fairy. Try using a less obvious style next time.
Actually, science has already done that quite successfully. No god created Earth. So, defend your belief all you want and make yourself feel special when you're not.
No, I make that individual's ability to be equal to what is imagined by those who are religious, which is plausible for human beings, which is something YOU cannot deny.
Actually, that's not what I was after, so much for what you know. And, anyone attempting to say it's impossible, doesn't understand themselves, much less being human.
My OP already stated that, so what's your point? Oh yeah, you have no point as per usual.
Again, it wasn't bait. It was a rational explanation leading to the same "god" place, without actually claiming it was a god that actually did it. Duh!
And, secondly, as the title says.....Here is something to ponder? Now go back to school and learn something would you.
Ive learned all I need to know about you a while back. You're alternate theory is no more rational than the average Christians theory. Which is exactly why you posted the bait to begin with.
Again, not bait. DUH! It's in the Education forums.
Maybe you should go back to the religious forums, where you might have at least a fighting chance at having some knowledge of the topic.
That's very philosophical, another stock answer followed by a laughing smiley face. You are nothing if not predictable. Have fun with this thread.
For you the mention of anything but a god is bait, repair guy. You are beginning to sound like a one trick pony.
Yes, but how did that being from a different world came to be? It's like opening a can of worms, you'll never get to the bottom of it.
I think people are missing the point all together. No matter what we'll never have a common answer to the question why and how we came to be. And I think that's the whole point of having a human experience - to learn to live the moment and not try to read too much into things. Less is More kind of thing.
I already stated that it was a human being. Or did you miss that part?
That assessment I will disagree with. Sooner or later, the mystics will fade out and eventually be non-existent.
I understand what you're saying.
So the human being could have come from a different universe, set the big bang effect to take place, and then go back only to come back with a few others to populate a planet?
I'm not mocking you. I think it's interesting. I'm just trying to follow the storyline that could very well be a possibility.
I'm just drained, Cags... it's been a long day, but I am interested.
Klara, a human being standing at the edge of another Universe, set off the singularity known as the Big Bang and let the Universe take it's course. Human life is just part of the process.
I didn't think you were. You're too open-minded.
How did he/she set up the big bang? Only by standing at the edge of another universe? No remote control to go "Poofff!" ??? no "BIG BANG" click button???
I figured your question would be how did he/she stand at the edge of a Universe which is supposedly infinite? Yet, you come up with a different question.
First, let me answer the question I figured you were going to ask- having the power to manipulate the Universe. Thus, he/she would have the power to set off the singularity known as the Big Bang.
Having the power to create the singularity.
No remote control needed.
Cags, you're talking/writing to a musician. We are on a different wavelength all the time! and I don't mean it in a good way!
You can't argue with a musician. You'll never win, because we'll change the direction of the argument so many times you'll forget what the hell you were fighting about to begin with!
Why does it have to be a human?
I guess I am a lateral thinker as well
Why not? Humans exist in this Universe.
Why would it have to be anything else but human?
..Because there may be other life, and if we exclude that in our thinking ,then right there we have disadvantaged possible outcomes .
But, I'm not discounting other life. I set a plausible explanation, which is just as likely as any other explanation. However, again I noticed that you chose not to answer the question in the OP either.
You are not discounting other life ,so long as its human
Right. To answer the question directly then. Anything that produced or created the universe and or all in it would be god by definition if the definition of god is that which created or produced the universe.
But while most of us would agree with that, some would not. Some would say a god has to be conscious and supernatural. Others say if nature is god then there is no point calling it god because the word has so many other meanings. Why not just say nature.
But I agree with you, the guy in the other universe that created this universe might be considered god. But he wouldn't be considered a god by his own people. Talent is never recognized first in your own home town. lol...
And then there is the question of how he did it. The process may be natural but he triggered it. So like Andy Warhol's (sp?) soup can, it is only art because he thought of doing it first.
And who or what is his god?
Perhaps the definition of THE god includes being the source of all of it, not just this universe. So how did all these universes get started? The guy that started ours would then not qualify unless he created all the others including his own.
So now we have two aspects to god which are actually the same aspect.
It has to have created it all and it has to be the source. It has to be a cause, not an effect.
So no, in that case the guy that created this would not qualify as the supreme god.
I still say the invisible pink squirrels did it. They live outside the multiiverse and we are their poo.
Adams was probably right. It was the mice. lol...
The mice and swine became politicians maybe?
Was it Rush who sang it ,or the movie Charlottes web
Actually the mice are a reference to Douglas Adam's movie, book, and series called The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where in the mice are the ones who created and rule he world. They run through mazes for us so we will think we are the ones in charge.
I love it when you say man is a "minor annoyance". It is probably so true - in the big picture or great scheme of things we are insignificant. I was a true believer in God up until a few years ago. May be I just finally grew up. I don't know, but sometimes I miss the feeling of security I had when I truly believed. I think all humans basically go through the cycle I have about God. Mother Theresa did. Yes, there are those that never believe from the beginning, but I don't run into too many of those people. How about you? Wait a minute, I take back that question as that has already been asked by that Californiapaloma guy, I think. It doesn't matter to me, so you don't have to answer. But, this I do want to know. The tiger photo - are you one of those rare silver or white tigers I read about? I think you are a unique and rare person, and the rare tiger photo would be so appropo.
I find it almost impossible to imagine that a human could have created the event of the Big Bang. This would mean that there was something outside of our universe; or that a human somehow destroyed existence and it slowly recreated itself. If I'm going to explore that avenue of possibilities, I'm not going to start with a human.
There is no reason to make the leap to God simply because we don't have the answer. I would think the fact that we don't have the answer would be ample reason to question the existence of a god.
Why? Our potential is unlimited. Our knowledge is unlimited and our understanding(wisdom) is unlimited. So, actually it stands to reason that a human being could obtain such ability.
Actually, there are other Universes outside our own. This is already known. As for your secondary statement, the Universe works on a Grand Cycle, it will destroy itself after a specific length of time and start over again. The only thing that was needed was the first singularity to get it started.
I'm sorry that you don't have much faith in humans. It shows if you're unwilling to see how humans could accomplish such a feat.
That's a little short sighted and speculative. Yes, our potential is limitless however; the creation of a universe would be quite the feat. You first have to accept the premise that we are not a unique species. That many completely isolated evolutions would have the human as an end result. I find that highly unlikely and, in line with the assumption of God.
You then have to accept the, as of yet, unproven theory that other universes exist.
Once you accept those two, you have to assume a species of man evolved to the point that it could move between the universes and understood the mechanics enough to feel comfortable creating a Big Bang.
Is all of that possible? I suppose. But, if you believe all of that; you might as well accept the fact that your imagination is also big enough for God.
I have no reason to jump to conclusions when we are on track to find the answers.
It would seem like a great feat, only to those who have a limited imagination.
The only thing unique about humankind is it's consciousness, our awareness of ourselves and the world we live in, and the ability to understand that our actions so somehow control our environment(not all of it, but some of it).
Human existence is just a process of the evolution of the Universe itself.
Other Universes must exist, if one exists then others exist as well. To think that only one Universe exists is foolish and completely irrational.
Which isn't suppose to be possible, from what others claim. Then again, it depends on the definition of a god? As my OP stated at the end? Which seems that almost everyone who has posted to this thread has not even paid attention to. Ironic.
I'm not jumping to conclusions. I only put out a plausible explanation. That's it.
Then why cant my explanation be from a spiritual stand.
Oh I know because you dont deem its 'plausable'.
The bottom line always comes down to Science v God.
For me Science explains what God did ,to which I am grateful.
But lets face it,new theories about everything is being studied and revealed almost daily.
All this new knowledge is wonderful,but not one bit of it will prolong or extend our lives forever.
All the bits in between ,like how ,when ,and who said what ...lifes too short and definately 'falls short' on many counts.
Because, anything spiritual or part of spirituality has been considered not in reality. Thus, debunked as intellectual dishonesty.
Again, you make this about ME? It's not about me. It's about what knowledge is already available to humankind.
It doesn't always come down to that. That is what people make it to be. It's about understanding our own life and explaining the world(and Universe) we live in.
But, you're using the definition of religion's god. Apparently, you don't understand your own religion. Remember, Jesus despised religion and told his followers that the god of the religion of those who ruled was false. It's no wonder why the rulers at the time kill him and then put his teachings into their concept. It was to fool the masses and maintain control of them.
True enough, but also remember, theories are dismissed because they are not based on reality.
And, there's a reason for that. The question is do you know the reason?
I'm sure it appears that way. To those with a limited knowledge and limited imagination.
Again, you avoided answering the question the OP presents. Hmmm....I wonder why that is? Then again, you've no need. I know why.
You're a smart guy, but the only way this falls into the category of possible is; anything is possible. It would not be high on my list of probable causes.
As to the definition of a god. I personally don't think a human could be thrown into that category. Just because they made a Big Bang. A deal breaker for me for the god concept would be if the being were not immortal. Einstein had a mind that blew all others out of the water. He was still no god.
Not as humankind stands now no.
WOW! A human who has the power to create a Universe wouldn't be considered a God? Oh, okay. You keep telling yourself that.
And what precisely tells you that we are suppose to die? Everything you ever have been told? Or seen? But, you're discounting every factor that goes into why we die. And, that seems to be short-sighted also.
True, but Einstein actually never had a chance to finish his work either.
Actually, no I don't. I understand the god concept.
As does everyone understand the god concept. What you are willing to equate to god is quite a bit different than me. An Indian in the Amazon might find technology amazing and magical; however you could easily take a child in the Amazon and teach him all we know, over time.
If a human came here from another universe, with the knowledge you propose; that would be amazing. But, it would be within the realm of possibility that we could learn to do the same. We would all still be human and I would never deign to bend a knee; no matter how intelligent they were. Intelligence, alone, does not give anyone god status.
I would disagree with this statement. Not everyone understand the god concept, but has a definition of their own to use. Which is complete foolishness.
That's because you choose to use your own definition?
Now, who is kidding who?
I'm not doubting that.
I never said it(intelligence) did. I equated the power humans can achieve with the likes of god as it's described by most religions. Or did you miss that?
I'm afraid I'd have to disagree on this point. You can't have a consensus on a definition for a concept such as god. To call opposing views foolishness is pointless.
Actually, I think the primary problem in this conversation is I choose not to use yours.
That sounds vaguely like a statement originating in Nazi Germany. Are you implying that some Ethic groups of humans are smarter than others? Any child is born with the likelihood of having the same potential as the next. Environment and education are the difference.
Apparently not. I already stated you have a lower bar for using the word.
There's a definition for it. Look it up in a dictionary, yet people don't use the dictionary as their definition. Which is what is foolish.
No. You choose not to use the definition located in either a bible or a dictionary. Which means, you make up one to suit yourself.
Ethic groups? Or Ethnic groups? It's already been proven that some people are smarter than others and this cannot be denied. There are even some people who have the potential to be just as smart as others, but have trouble doing so. No grouping required.
I'll agree, but adaptation is another factor.
Which is untrue. Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresence is the highest bar you can apply to any specific definition of a god. I'm not lowering it, but am saying that in due course of human evolution it would be possible to achieve at least most of those attributes.
Interesting. I just googled god concept and got quite a few hits. None of which were a dictionary definition and all were different. That doesn't lead me to change my original argument. I'm curious what effect it will have on yours.
The only comments I'm going to make about the kid in the Amazon argument is; yes that was a typo I meant ethnic and apparently there was some confusion on one other point. Of course some people are smarter than others. But you can't argue that a child from a jungle doesn't have the same potential as a child from a developed nation without sounding aryan.
And, the rest of the argument isn't really an argument. Omniscience and omnipresence. Are you serious?
Again, just proves my point.
I'm not making that argument. I already stated that we all have the potential, however, not every child has the adaptation ability to reach that potential, which is my point. At least not presently.
I said most of the attributes, like Omniscient, being able to see the future and every path one could walk, including what obstacles would happen along the way and including the choices one would have during the journey. It's like seeing an entire puzzle already put together and then ripping it apart piece by piece, to it's smallest component and then proceeding toward building it. As for omnipresence? Not likely, if not totally impossible. But, then again, I did say some attributes. Only reason being is because as far as I am concerned, perfection is nothing more than an individual's subjective perception and not actually achievable by humans. The omnipotent would only be with regards to one's own life and nothing more.
Now, don't take offense. Are you sure you don't have god concept and god complex confused? They aren't the same thing.
So, it is your contention that certain ethnic groups are incapable of adapting? That's the way it sounds. You can't imagine the possibility of a disadvantaged Amazon Indian baby learning and functioning in an advanced society?
And, I repeat. You've lowered the bar. You can't have a few attributes. You have to have them all. That falls in line with every religion that believes in God that I know of.
No I'm not confusing the two.
It seems like we're having difficulty communicating for some odd reason. That's not like us. I am saying that not everyone learns at the same pace and has the same ability to overcome the same obstacles, because of their inability to adapt to change. Which is the reason why there are smarter people. The potential of each is the same, but when it comes down to physically, mentally and emotionally, some are unable to step up.
The god of religion is perfection, which is a fallacy in and of itself, especially with regards to humans. Thus, it's false, unattainable. It only proves that religion's gods are a joke, a mind-f**k on humans. My original point was more about having the power to control and create Universes themselves. Which would be almost the same power religion's gods. You've completely gotten away from the OP itself. And brought in the mystic BS religion has sold to the masses.
If a human being had the power to create a Universe, would that individual be seen as a god? The answer to that question is Yes, just based on that power alone.
Just to answer your final point. I hope you are wrong. Simply because I do believe there is a strong possibility that there are races vastly more intelligent than we are. I'd choke if we met them and people insisted on claiming they were gods.
It's one thing for people to get all warm and fuzzy about a no show deity; but having a race among us being called gods? That is a can of worms I'd hate to have to deal with.
Do you mean Life-Forms are vastly more intelligent?
The human species(beings) regardless of anything are the same. Same potential, including gender.
I never said anything about a particular race among us being called gods. I said a human being with the power to create and control a Universe would be seen as a god. Race was nowhere in my statement.
Ok. I think I'm honing in on the confusion. Are you using the word human to denote any alien life form with our level of consciousness? If so, we are somewhat in agreement on a few points. And my use of the word race didn't imply color or anything. It implied an alien race. A race of people, or another life form from outside of our planet.
I guess if a human life form from somewhere else other than here would be considered alien? Then yes.
Good to know.
Maybe I'm still confused. Are you assuming all alien intelligent life would be humanoid? It still sounds like that.
No, not all. But, I don't discount the possibility that humans similar to us, do exist. As I said before, human beings' existence is just a part of the process of the Universe.
Agreed. I suppose the probability is strong that if there are as many habitable planets as appear may be out there; a good number could contain life forms that have evolved to look similar to us.
So, I take it we're pretty much on the same page now?
Well, not all the points; but I was bored with arguing about the idea of gods anyway. I do think it would be so cool to meet someone who could actually create a big bang, though. Man, the things they could teach us.
In ten billion years it will be child's play. We will all be doing it.
Say... maybe the Mormons were right. We all do get to be god's of our own planet eventually. lol...
So, you buy into the idea that there are humans, on other planets and/or universes. That is so odd. I believe there is certainly a vast array of intelligent life beyond our tiny planet. But human? As I said, I find the conjecture to be shortsighted. What makes our form so special?
It's short-sighted to think that Humans here in this Universe are the only humans in existence.
Nothing makes us special per se. However, our consciousness is unlike, let's say an average animal? To think it not is short-sighted.
I don't see why consciousness would be assumed to be tied to human form. Are you arguing image of God?
You say no god created the earth, but I believe that the Almighty God created the world. If he didn't, how was it formed? Science can not explain it. The Bang Theory makes no sense. When did a bang ever create a life. You mention a human may have created it. Perhaps you are not so far off, after all we were created in His image. One day we will know who was right and who believed lies. The atheist believes there is no God. The agnostic doesn't know. The christian believes. Only one is right. Which do you choose to be?
I'm not a school teacher. Go to the library and look it up.
Science has explained. It's YOU who refuses to accept it.
To you it makes no sense.
The singularity that brought forth the Big Bang, began time and create space. At the same time, Evolution began when time began. Evolution brought forth life.
An advanced human being from a different Universe. Yes. It's just as plausible as the god of religion.
Actually, no we were not created in HIS image. You've been fooled by religion, something Jesus told you not to be fooled by.
Human beings are just a process of the Universe.
I've done the research I need to do. Religion is a hoax. You want to follow Jesus and his teachings, then strip them from religion and eliminate the mystic BS, which is the god of religion. You want to believe in a higher power? Then by all means do so. But, common sense says that it's not the god of religion, that's for sure.
Atheist have a lack of belief in a god.
The agnostic is waiting for more information and refuses to choose sides until more information is obtained.
Christians believe in the god of religion, which is non-existent. They need to feel special for some reason.
None of them are right. As my statement(OP) highlights, a human being who has the power to create(start the singularity) which resulted in the Big Bang..... would you consider him/her a god? Of course you would. That doesn't mean it has any hands on or any judgment of what happens within the Universe it/he/she created. There would be NO NEED for him/her to bother, because the Universe is self-sustaining.
None of the above. I have nor do I hold any religious belief whatsoever.
OK I know I struggle with thinking a lot but imagine the possible number of life forms not in space but in everywhere-my attempt at being deep, and I did well, trust me, thank you and you may now resume regular programming-baby bump?
Good point- if everyone stopped to think about the number of actual life-forms in existence, then just maybe they would realize that there's nothing really special about the human life form.
Thank you for the baby-bump.
We know for fact there are other universes out there. Is there other life out there? I hope so. I don't really think the human race is the only living life out there in limitless space. I, personally, love Steven Spielberg's, view of other life, even in our universe. I believe in ET's out there. Is there proof? Probably not, unless the UFO's I have seen at night are just imaginations. I have witnessed what appears to be UFO's in the sky at night. Not just once, but many times. So, do I think there is other life out there? Yes I do, and I'd love to meet it.
Since we are talking about something that probably will not be proved during my lifetime, I guess I base my opinion on the faith that evolution has probably happened in another universe or galaxy - and the Big Bang Theory, too.(which I believe was spontaneous combustion, but I am willing to entertain the opinion of Cagsil that another human or being could have caused it.)
We know for a fact there are other galaxies, not universes. We can't know that for a fact yet.
Sorry, we know for a fact there are galaxies, not universes. We also know about the black hole - sorry, I thought that was a universe. I'm not a science expert, obviously.
I wish I knew more about science, as I find this topic so engaging. I think it's wonderful to wonder about the universe and galaxies and all that. We will never come to a final answer about God and religion, because it is such an emotional issue for some. Cagsil, I see you changed your photo. You keep us guessing, which is good. Perhaps, you are our "guardian angel.
Throwing a "god" or any form of "creater" into this is just plain mental laziness. The perception of a god or creatuer is an ancient way to satisfy a question that no had an answer. Stephen Hawkin's book points out that the laws of physics can explain how a universe of space, time and matter could emerge spontaneously, without the need for God or creator. Most cosmologists agree that we don't need a god-of-the-gaps to make the big bang go bang. It can happen as part of a natural process
Yes Paul, that's already understood. However, I noticed that you didn't bother to read through the thread either. You simply jumped on the fact that the word "god" was mentioned.
If you need a little clarity? Check out one of Slarty O'Brian's posts about the Big Bang Theory.
Secondly, your post also doesn't mean that an advanced human as stated in the OP could not have created the singularity. Your post only says that it's part of the natural process and my post states that an advanced human could have the power to initiate that process.
Thirdly, I also stated that that individual would be seen as a god, because of having the power to create the singularity, which creates a Universe.
There's only one Big Bang in these forums , and its all about the Blast Off from the trip you guys are constantly on about religion , constantly! berating those who believe quietly in thier faith! What is it man LSD . crack , meth?...I've never seen forums that have the same old wasted rhetoric allowed here !What shallow minded synics can go on and on Cagsil???One would honestly think the big bad Christians were constantly breaking down your door!.......Get over it man!
And, this post has to do with the topic of thread how exactly? WOW!
Did you notice that this particular thread was IN the Education and Science- Philosophy category? Not religion
You are aware this thread is actually in the religion and philosophy forums right? I'm just saying, as it seems you overlooked that.
Yep, everyone who calls you on being an abusive ass are on hard drugs.
Why not try to explain how your god is going to destroy all the people who don't believe in it, that always goes down well.
All the more proof , a constant and scattered messege of the same ole same ole rhetorical crap Arm yourself with the ammo you need to dissprove , 'I Cagsil have all the proof you need ,it just can't be true,..... there is no god !" Time after time , forum after forum , post after post ; the messege ? Dont believe , don't have faith! Waving your arms in the crowds of people in the street! Give it a rest Cags . They believe! and you ....are a jilted ex-Catholic lost in a see of guilt.Thats just Sad man !But , peace to you is what I wish ! Let it all go .
Hey ahorseback, WOW! You sound like a scorned woman, the way you continue to complain about something which has nothing to do with this thread. If you have something to say that's on the topic, then by all means bring it.
I was born and raised by two Catholic parents. I was baptized as a Catholic, communed and confirmed as a Catholic. At the age 22, I dropped all religious belief, which was five years after confirmation.
Sorry to hear.
Congratulations on your escape. Some never do get out of that system.
It's a shame you've not escaped religion. But, good luck trying.
Earnest , now there's a lame an excuse as I have ever heard ! Man destroys man ! Not God ! And just as in creatively coming up these same blinking light messeges of yours. So would you blame god for destroying his people , come on Earnest , admit it , you too are just reaching for stars . And who knows why or where you get this crap load of weak points you constantly use , I am beginning to see the light with dis-believers . You are so unhappy in real life that you just can;t stand to watch happiness around you without looking for your shovel! Put your boots on boys and girls , just another forum where the pile grows deeper and deeper!
Your "god" wiped out all of his "creations" bar 8 people. What the hell has that got to do with man doing all the killing. He sanctioned rape murder and torture all over your ridiculous stone aged mythical yarn.
Show me again how murdering his own creation was necessary for an omnipotent entity, I always get a good belly laugh out of that one.
What a complete stuff up he must have made of his "creation" that he has had to wipe them out whenever he has another psychotic episode.
Your god made himself apparently, then became his own son then murdered himself.. very logical.
No growth there.
Like a bull in china shop, no matter how many china shops ya introduce the bull into, He's gonna do the same thing over and over again.
I don't know why you bother to post, yer in every thread and you read all the answers and still you just plod along repeating the same old stuff.
God murdered himself?
okay prove it by using scripture since you know it so well.
Incidentally, if you want to prove murder in a court of law, you will need a BODY
I post because I have something to say that surpasses your goddunnit.
Why do you bother to post?
Your replies are as popular here as something that gets stuck to your boot.
You can't even agree with other god botherers like yourself.
I'm surprised you would make such an accusation, considering your archaic interpretation of scripture. I thought 'no growth' was something the sect you follow held in high regard .
roses are red
violets are blue
i only wish
a happy day for you
You are becoming a religious troll.
I notice that when you spew out yards of pointless scripture you think you are saying something, though nobody else knows except yourself, but when others quote you back you simply ignore it.
Your ego (god) is out of control in you and you would do well to go back to where you were converted and get re-booted.
That's because the answer is good enough to stand to by itself and any further discussion would be a waste of time. I don't need to defend my posts and i don't worry about people understanding them or not.
Ego is a handy word to throw around but its not about ego is it. Its about perception. Many things can be construed as ego. If the answers i give are too detailed or seemingly deep, it is not my ego talking at all, its knowledge. Knowledge by the Spirit of God, but i don't expect you to know that or to acknowledge it.
If i have missed anything that you wanted me to respond to, please let me know by leading me to the post.
And if to troll means to skip around and give my input on some questions, then i guess, that shoe fits.
Go tell exactly this to a clinical psychologist and they will give you some pills. They will make you feel a lot better.
How do you know? What kind of pills did they give you?
I have many over-opinionated friends and colleagues who think that what they think is god given, they are clearly bordering on insanity. It appears in many different people, here they are mostly old teachers who have been telling kids what is and isn't for so long they lose track of reality.
I am just over-opinionated, I don't think the stuff in my head is important, just mine.
Well I never expected self reflection, I'm impressed and now I feel bad. You guys just aren't any fun anymore.
Many of us were never fun for the religious to deal with. We bring all the bad stuff, like reality, fact, logic, common sense etc.
You know, the sort of thing people have instead of religion.
Now you know thats not bad stuff for you atheists earnest...but they're just words anyway and I'll add one more to your list horsehooey.
P.S. That would be the etc. you mentioned
Everything that has ever been written is just words luvpassion....as for the horsehooey, it is no problem at all to deal with that.
I am often referred to as swine by the religiously infirm here, so a bit of horse sh*t is no biggy.
The etc would be sanity.
Now I'd never refer to you as swine Earnest although I did get banned one time for referring to Mr. Knowles as a perverted pig...Remember?
No, sorry I missed that one. I'm pretty sure Mark would not have reported it though. We are alike in that way, used to fighting our own battles instead of praying to the sky ya know.
Now that was sweet BO. Hope you have a pleasant day also.
Like I said ahorse's I don't buy fairies. That is why I have such a great life.
Your hoping that I am sad or upset is wishful thinking. There would not be one other hubber here who would agree with the unhappy diagnosis, they already know who I am and what my life is like.
You and brothery should marry, he is the other massively unpopular fundy here. You two will be brothers in no time.
Personal abuse and snide remarks won't make the fairy show up, no matter what your preacher told you.
You are just another indoctrinated religious fanatic like the dozens who have been seen off here in the past.
If you want to discuss religion, bring a bit more to the table than goddunnit and you may get a conversation.
I can discuss it in depth with you if you're game enough.
A small warning though, I know your bible from ashole to breakfast time in 3 languages.
Earnest , Cagsil, the greateast minds in research and developement of the ateistic clans. I'll say this, anyone who does so much research into Chrisianity deserves at least the chance to defend himself when called out! So go ahead speak to me in three languages then , use the bible if you truely wish to support your claims of no God! Oh thats right , you cant use the bible you don't believe in it! Earnest , if I wasted as much time as you forum-izing about religion ,I might at least come out of the closet and include your disrespect of all religions . At least then you might break the molds of the usual politically correct dissrepect of just Christianity . But hey , it looks cool in the foum pages doen't it. It would seem you could be all inclusive in your bitter flavored dialog. What of Muslims, Hindu's and and Buddists , are they too included .....or is this just directed at God!? Seems you're being disrespectful of them too . But go ahead hand out your cool- aid packets , we'll mix our own!
Yet, another post to this forum, which doesn't address the topic. *palm to face*
I wouldn't use the bible to do such a thing. Common sense has more BITE than the bible.
Religion itself is to be disrespected, because it disrespect the individual and human beings of all walks of life.
I don't just pick on Christianity, which is a joke, a mind-f**k job on the feeble minded, but as it all religions which perpetuate the hoax of a god, as described by them.
I did it before and I guess I have to repeat myself- you want to believe in a higher power, then do so. You want to call it a god, then do so. But, under no circumstance are you to attempt to rationalize this BS in any of the world religions and then use them to support an ignorant position.
Bitter flavored dialog? And what exactly do you think you just post in the forum? Something that shows kindness? If this is your description of kindness, then I would not want to see what you would do if you actually hated someone or something.
Answered above. Why do you repeat yourself within the same post?
I'm sure you can mix your own, the question is will it taste like sh*t or not. And, by reading this post....you're a lousy mixer.
Can you even read? The muslims have had their fair share of attention on the forums since they begun.
Are you feeling lonely because your insane beliefs are getting attention? Oh you poor little religious thing!
If you wait for the other religiously impaired mobs to turn up, you will see it is all equal opportunity when it comes to impossible beliefs about fairies that kill people.
I KNOW , I know ,when will we Christians all learn that it's ONLY Christians that are being genetically altered before birth, according to you guys.
How Cags , by pointing that the only full time employees in the world today are full time discriminating anti Christians! Just asking ?After all, we want to be fair to ALL religions now Cags .....Dont we ?
Hey ahorseback, please try to make sense when you post. Meaning, try rephrasing your question so it makes sense. As for the religions of the world that perpetuate the god of religion, are nothing more than hoax on the gullible.
Like I said before, which apparently you selective read posts and missed, if you want to believe in a higher power than do so. But, that would be your belief and have nothing to do with other people or their life. Also, if you choose to believe in the god of religion then it simply shows that you've gained no knowledge of the religion you practice.
Again, you're completely OFF topic of this thread. This thread isn't about religion, which is why I put it into the Education and Science category. Something else you completely dismissed. On top of that, you've still yet to answer the question at the end of the OP?
Worry not. Your ridiculous religion is no more or less disgusting and repulsive than all the other irrational belief systems. You are no more irrational than the Muslimists. You create no more hate mongering than them Mussel men. Equally as bad as each other.
Feel better now?
Evolution Guy , Now there it is , thank you ! thats what I wanted to hear! Your truth ! I do feel better truely , but I really worry about the ultra-faithful as yourselves who can believe in in other worlds , other Gods , or that some human in another world ! And even little green men are going to explain evolution for you guys. Talk about blind faith ! I worry for you guys! Faith in other worlds.......but not Here! Hmmmm.
Cagsil, to answer the O.P question , Yes, another world !,another human?, another God ! There is another human on another planet who called himself a God and then created this earth! Do dod , do ododdo do!
Actually I will, Yes , No , all in reverse though cags , see ....first it was an advanced creature like oh ....say the swamp thing ! Yup , and then he marrried Sally Ride and theres the connection ! Evolution guy knows this already ! Sally dros him like a hot potato on pluto I think, and then he ....hes the guy !You know ,and then in a very angry mood BANG !....Big Bang actually . Jealousy always greates new universes!......
I give this one big bang of a YAWN.
Oh yes it could be something else, anything else BUT the God of the bible.
Who created the human being in the your posts example? and then who created his creator?.. how did a human being become so advanced as to set off the big bang?
Maybe its not human at all but a race of vastly superior beings..
I am glad that having the right answer leads me out of this thread real quick.
The god of religion is a hoax. There's no need for it to exist and that's been proven through the theories already made available.
You don't know that and cannot prove your conjecture.
I can see that you didn't read through the thread. You must be proud of yourself.
That's not the point.
This is also already discussed in the thread and had you read it instead of just spouting, then you would have known that.
You with a right answer? Only in your mind dude.
The answer is completely, utterly and totally correct.
.....exiting cheerfully, stage right
Cagsil , "The god of religion doesnt exist, theres no need for religion " Who says so,YOU?....You have been calling Christians fools for ever man , but just because YOU say it so doesn't mean it is! Thats my whole point! You don't get to decide for me or anyone what to believe! You are a Catholic drop out ,so you get to decide we cant believe either? Uhh Huhh! See the logic cags ......there is none.
Common sense says by definition there would be only one true religion and that would be to understand your own life through religiously introspection of self. It's a shame you don't know that. Jesus was right in that regard- they know not what they do.
Christians are not fools. They just don't know any better. Their actions are what IS foolish.
You have no point as per usual.
When an irrational belief is made known to you and it's same as the belief you hold, and you don't re-evaluate it, then it's you who are wrong. Ironic, that you fail to see or understand that. I'm not trying to decide what people believe. I am simply showing the irrationality for what it is and hoping you see what the irrationality is doing to your life.
This statement is a complete lie. I didn't drop out, because as I said earlier in this thread- I completed everything that was needed to be done and then five years later, I dropped the irrational belief.
Yes, it's common knowledge ahorseback, you have no logic, because everything you believe is based on irrationality. Therefore, you cannot find or use any sort of logic.
So lets see "I" don't make any sense ! But you think that some cosmicly advanced society created an advanced form of what ? A Superior human being that set off an explosion that created the "Big Bang Theory " which possibly created the known and unknown universe that we now know today?as Earth ....... Have I got this right Cagsil ?... Simplified! You ,who don't believe in the possibility of God !,........But does believe in a supior being from another world that snapped his fingers and Poof ! Created this one! OH !, why didn't you say so Cags I misunderstood the question ...........well now you're making sense ...I'm so gad you explained that awesome possibility to me. Uhhh Hmmm!Doo do dodoo do do do ......
Reading comprehension problem...continues to exist for you.
This statement seems to be on target. You did manage to comprehend what I said. YAY!
The god of religion? I hold no belief in or of and the possibility of it in existence isn't a possibility, but is an improbability.
I only made the thought plausible more so than the god of religion which you seem to believe in. The question at the bottom asked if you would consider that human a god? Most would, providing that human did have such power.
Cagsil My man , he would have to show proof of I.D.......:-}
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