If anyone needs the definition of misogyny, look no further than here.
I don't agree with you often but I do this time.
So denying someone abortion is hatred.. I udnerstand that, but motivating someone to make a choice against abortion is not hatred, it's motivation.. Hatred is like this "want an abortion, that will be $250 dollars.. No don't tell me about the rape, I don't want to hear your life story.. ". If nobody cared what you did, would freedom of choice matter..
I'm the "anti-meh"
I hate indifference, it's like "nobody cares, so why should I"..
I can't even explain how wrong that statement is without turning it into a personal attack.
However I will say if you've never been held down and forcibly had another person's penis shoved into one of your orifices then you shouldn't be trying to tell the person who has how something beautiful can come out of it.
That is not only insensitive it's also completely and utterly clueless about that woman's experience. It's also completely reprehensible that you would be trying to influence any decision that woman makes based on your opinion of what she should do with the result of that experience.
Okay so you are saying it's like you were in a nazi death camp and I'm discussing how you could turn that into a good situation.. I know that feels wrong to you, but traumatic events have a way of making one make choices that would seem crazy to others.. Example given, Ayn Rand was traumatized by the effects of socialism, she took on a life of pushing capitalism, somewhere down the road she found that pro-capitalism had its flaws and in effect developed a different perspective about capitalism that you really should not ignore the people who are effected by the choices that are made in the interest of prosperity.. I personally believe that pushing anyone to do something just because you can, is wrong..
I'm not talking about pushing women to not have abortions or otherwise, I'm just wondering how those on either side can be more effective with their communication, but I took it from the Christian perspective.
The trauma in my life is my parents divorce and one really strange one, which feels like rape to me, being given a tool to master (a 3D package that I developed an understanding in, and foresaw a potential of making a living doing) and a software company made the choice to remove that tool from the marketplace because they felt they didn't want to support that software, but the effect on my end is a loss of trust in commercial software.. And don't tell me that is a crazy perspective, because unless you have had it happen to you, you wouldn't understand the perspective.. And I can understand that I don't know what being raped is like.. But I've watched plenty of documentaries on the subject, about the lady that was raped and sent a innocent black man to jail due to a mistake she made in the identification of the black man.. I watch documentaries the way some people read books.. I'm practically addicted, the only time I might not watch a documentary is when it is about some subject that doesn't seem interesting, like a documentary about some species of fish..
Oh and that documentary let me see if I can dig it up...
You still don't get it. I would be just as angry if someone walked in and said "Oh my God you are pregnant by your rapist, get dressed we're going to get you an abortion"
I don't care what traumas you have gone through in your life, you haven't went through the same trauma as the hypothetical woman in this scenario. So you have absolutely no right to have a voiced opinion either way.
I also don't care about your documentary. Not in the least.
You say Meh..
Okay fine.. But I will keep doing what I'm doing.. I have a right to voice my opinion.. Or do you want me to shut up, because that's a form of rape, I don't know if you know it but that is a form of Rape.. What does a rapist do, cover's the mouth so the rape victim can't hear the scream.. What are you doing to me?
Unfortunately I think he is.
Apparently rape is a good thing that is like being told to shut up. It's almost as bad as your parent's getting divorced and he knows this because he watched a documentary on it.
Oh my goodness!
I honestly think the whole thing borders on (if it isn't actually) hate speech.
I read the thing about forcing someone to shut up and felt myself gag, seriously.
I honestly thinks he equates it to being forced to do something you don't want to do.
I don't think it's hate speech but I do think it's complete lack of empathy and understanding. I seriously think he just doesn't get it. He keeps comparing it to things in his life that have caused him distress. It hasn't occurred to him that it's not the same. Not even close.
I'm reacting far too strongly to it to even be able to form coherent responses, to be honest. I think you're right...I don't believe he gets it at all. There's also the problem of his not really listening to anyone else.
Lucky for you.
I tend to keep talking when pissed off. Being struck dumb has it's advantages
And what's with all the video crap? How is that even vaguely related?
It does indeed - and it doesn't happen to me often. I thank God for it sometimes. But it's not like you're not making sense.
That's good. You do realize that what I'm typing and what I WANT to say are two completely different entities?
Of course, of course. I've known you long enough to know what you're really thinking about this. Oddly enough, I deleted the last sentence of that post I just put up. I was going to congratulate you for having not committed a bannable offense as of yet. If I typed what I thought, I might actually pull down my first forum ban.
*giggles* I was wondering for a second what would happen if I lapsed into Italian. Then someone would just translate it. I'd get banned anyway.
Maybe....but it would sound really pretty when read aloud. My dad used to swear in Italian all the time when I was little. It always sounded so nice...lol If it wasn't for the tone of his voice, I'd have never known the difference!
I use "affanculo" a lot because it's unrepeatable by the small ones. It's also my opinion of this thread. It does sound kinda nice spoken though.
Oh, I'm adding that one to my vocabulary.
I don't speak Italian, unfortunately. My grandparents were both gone by the time I was three and my dad had no reason to speak it in the house. I wish he'd taught me. I actually know more Polish from my time in the convent. Of course, I didn't learn to curse in Polish from any of my sisters.
I don't speak it fluently but I understand it perfectly. I'm sure you can understand how that happens.
Now I have a full German mother-in-law who's teaching me the finer side of German language. She's like Sophia on Golden Girls.
I hope to be like Sophia when I get older. My mother was Dorothy. So much so that I wonder if they didn't spy on our household to write for her character! So funny - I practically live on the Golden Girls. I watch it first thing in the morning, and fall asleep to it almost every night.
I can...I'm that way with Spanish. I heard it spoken all the time while I lived in Chicago and worked for years with several women who spoke Spanish.
Proving that you STILL don't know anything about rape.
Rape isn't being told to shut up. It's not like a divorce. It's not an interesting documentary.
But there is no way I can explain it to you because you keep trying to compare it to the little traumas in your own life. You can't. It's not LIKE anything you've experienced... unless you have been raped.
You can have any opinion you like, please continue saying it.
But you are being incredibly offensive and I'll keep letting you know that until you stop.
You feel so strongly about this issue, I understand.. But you won't be effective at fixing the world with the attitude that nobody has a valid perspective.. I guess youa re saying, only rape victims should talk to victims.. Everyone else should shut up.. I can understand that, but don't say I can't say what I am saying..
I deleted the article because I noticed the forum I put it in hasn't had any topics in months..
You have this to say about the Christians, at least they want to care.. Most people wouldn't.. Maybe you can find some, but how many people actually care? Seemed we cared more about Maria Shiavo's condition than actually caring about the person and the family.. That hyper-focus is evil. I'm only trying to make people more effective at the issues they are pushing not stuffing the idea down peoples throats that people shouldn't have the choice of an abortion.. See there is a double standard already, we are against abortion, but it's okay to send a 21 yo kid to war.. Both is wrong, so what is the real point of pushing the abortion issue, it's a lack of focus, killing is wrong, but you can't stop people from killing people, you can only stick up for that fact that you believe killing is wrong.. Christians against killing shouldn't want killing to be "common place".. But they seem to feel okay with sending someone to the electric chair..
I'm saying the act of feeling hatred toward someone is equal to killing.. When you condemn someone like calling me a mysgonist, I feel like you are killing me. You are writing me off.. It's not unlike the indifference of the modern youth, "meh".. *shrug*, Like I care what you think.. I'd wonder if I was a woman, what you would say to me, but that I'm a man,I'm hating women.. That's so typical..
I'm saying that you are so concerned with the product of a rape that it obviously never occurred to you that trying to influence the mother's decision is unethical.
You have no empathy for her. That is obvious in the fact that you are essentially saying:
"You were raped. That's Great!!!! Now you can have a child you didn't want by a man that you hate/fear more than anyone else!!! What a blessing!!!
So yes I have written you off. While your statement might not be actual hatred for women it is completely and utterly disregarding what they have been through. Indifference is almost worse than hate.
I'm not influencing the mother's decision, I'm influencing the Christians approach to influencing the mother's decision.. Which is more effective you think, to say it is killing or to drive the point of possibly giving life to a child?
See you are getting too emotional about this, and I'm only talking about semantics and approaches to motivation. I'll never have the perception that Abortion is good because it's bad from many angles, but from your perception, your world view has built up lots of evidence in favor of it, and so you can't see it as wrong.. So we will never agree on that point, but if you were to help a friend push a point of how to choose life, and ignore the abortion issue altogether, would that be more effective than would the point of "killing".. What would compel someone to keep a baby? Another world view that I don't agree with but could possibly be the stance of a really farout form so fiction, imagine a millionaire who compels women that have been through rape to keep their babies so they can be bought off to be used in science experiements.. Now being a pro-choice advocate, how would you feel about that? That's something that would make a Christian freak out.. It's the world view that gets in the way..
I'm only interested in people being more effective at compelling others to make wise choices.. I just can't imagine making killing/death common place, that's my perspective. But if I detached my emotion from that feeling, I'd have to wonder what other crazy notions people might have against or in support of abortion, and see what I can do with that to bring out what people feel and make it more effective.. It's about being effective communicators, not about discussing the issue at hand.. I really personally don't feel strong about abortion, I feel strong about killing, and I think those pro-abortion and christians that stick up for electric chairs, wars, etc.. It's all bad to me.. Even surgery is pretty bad unless it is really required.. Rape is bad.. There is lots of bad stuff, I don't even have the perspective that I'd want children myself, but it bothers me to sit by and watch someone push an issue without stepping outside of their focus and seeing the issue from other angles.. You seem to have a focus to that is diametrically juxtaposed to that of the Christian view against abortion.. I'm really not there, I'm off on the side sort of laughing and crying at it.. Look this is ineffective it won't work.. People will do what they do, the position one should take if they feel a certain way is to position the argument from the perspective of one who was compelled not to have an abortion and found the benefits of it, rather than to be forcibly pushing with rage against the victim of rape.
That's all.. What bothers me more than anything is systematic indifference.. Choosing to ignore people because you haven't a hope in the world of getting anywhere with anyone.. Let people do what they do.. So what if you want to commit suicide see if I care, hey I know where you can get some really effective shotguns..
How did that make you feel?
If my friend were to become pregnant by rape I would support whatever decision she made WITHOUT GIVING ANY ADVICE AT ALL. I am not qualified to be a rape councilor and you obviously damn sure aren't.
Why do you feel it's any of your business anyway? Why do you feel it's anyone's business but the mothers?
I am a Christian. I don't need you influencing my approach to influencing a mother because I don't want to influence a mother. As a matter of fact I don't want ANYONE of any religion or nonreligion to influence the mother. 1. Because it's nobody's damn business but the mother and 2. Because you are trying to influence someones decision based on your opinion when you have no vested interest in the outcome. In short you are giving "advice" on something that you don't have to live with. You are trying to influence a life that YOU don't have to live.
Thirdly, you really don't see how saying how great it is that a women is pregnant after a rape is so unbelievably stupidly insensitive that there is no word in the English language to adequately describe it?
It didn't make me feel anything... because if I truly wanted to commit suicide I wouldn't need your input and I would know where to get a better gun for it than a shotgun.
Why on earth would you think I would require or desire your input on it?
Because you replied to my discussion, you seem to be only wanting to rape me by forcing your opinion on me without letting me have an opinion..
Look, I'm sorry about your ordeal, but would it be better that I just ignroe you and reply to other people, you can say what you will I will just not reply..
If you were a women I would chalk it up to pure vileness. As you are a man I am assuming its because you could not begin to comprehend what a rape actually does to a women.
Men get raped in jail all the time, you think you are alone in that experience, everyone goes through traumatic experiences..
Divorce is a form of rape on the children, it's forcibly removing one from the arms of those they love, that's the trauma I had.. I guess you could find some argument to communicate how I could see your perspective from the position of one that has been traumatized by divorce.. But that's a pro-choice a attribute is it not, to choose to divorce.. You care not what the repercussions of that experience are, because you probably haven't experienced it.. Everyone has unique experiences, everyone has a say.. Nobody has a right to shut up anyone..
You just choose to ignore..
But when you say "I don't care what you say" that's not the same as ignoring, that is telling one that their opinion is irrelevant it is effectively the same as saying "shut up"..
Divorce is not a form of rape.
Rape is forcing a penis or an object into another person's body.
Divorce is a civil proceeding that dissolves a relationship.
They aren't even remotely similar.
I don't even know where to start.
First, I find almost nothing as annoying in a forum as when a person talks nonstop by replying to his/her own posts.
Second, I think you're way off the mark here. I think you mean well, but just don't know how your words actually sound - especially to women.
He seems to be under the impression that women who have been raped want the opinion of some random stranger on what to do with the resulting pregnancy... and that it is somehow "help" to tell them that if they think of the baby/embreyo/zygote/ whatever as an unwanted intruder and a constant reminder of being violated that somehow they should change that view point into thinking of the rape as a positive thing.
I would rather have someone calling me a murderer than someone telling me I was wrong to think of a rape as a negative event in my life.
There are so many people who believe that. I just don't think they have any idea how vulnerable, how fragile, how easily destroyed a woman can be in/by a circumstance like this one.
I getcha, honeybun.
No, I have had experiences of being with a Christian mom (she 70+) who believed that all life was worth saving, she raised a infant girl who was born prematurely, she is now in her 20's.. And it was about as hard for me to understand her (the 70+ yo mom) intense need to do away with abortion using the point that its killing a human being, and we had discussions on this point from time to time, and I never was effective at swaying her opinion on the matter. She also had taken care of children with down syndrome and severe birth defects.. If you want a challenge, I can give you her number, you will not get anywhere with her.. When I started this message that's who I was thinking of, not women who have been raped.. A side effect of her intense feeling, where it went strange is she stuck up for the right to own a gun and fight in wars.. It seemed so contradictory.. But when you raise a controversial topic, you get people bashing you from all ends, making you up to be the devil.. It's really wild when it happens too..
Guys keep in mind, text messages are ineffective at communicating emotion.. So you can read all sorts of things into the imperfections in my texts because frankly I didn't speak until I was 5 and have had communication difficulties all my life.. But words cannot communicate effectively as a video can.. That may be why this hubpages is experiencing popularity problems.. ???
The brain is a interesting thing.. You have holes in your vision, it will fill them up, if you lose an arm you will still feel like you have one.. It's also possible that I can say things and your intent to find wrong in me has me saying something else.. So just consider it.. The brain can play tricks on your perception.. BTW, I personally believe that why people commit violent acts in mobs is that they lose accountability and therefore can carry out any fantasy or justify their acts in reference to those they were around.. I once went to a comedy club for a dating function, and mind you nobody in the club was married, everyone was single, the comedians could not get anyone to laugh because all their material relied on the behaviour of mobs and making people feel embarassed about relationships.. But I did take a saddistic pleasure in watching the comedians squirm doing their tag-team attempt to make a crowd of single people laugh, it was like an hour and a half I think they just gave up..
Now I know how they felt..
While I empathize with that situation it has absolutely no bearing at all on the discussion.
Unless your mother also believed it was right to tell a women that had been raped that it was a great opportunity for growth and development.
And by the way her opinions were not a side effect of her experiences with a disabled child. If they were then all women with disabled children would feel the same.
I'm totally ineffective of communicating anything at this point, I'm going to eat my supper and watch some documentaries..
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