Can America achieve real Democracy

1. 60

   dutchman1951posted 13 years ago

   The formula for real democracy is a process that is profoundly populist.
   
   It is the faith that:
   
   The majority of people, Over time,
   Given access to enough accurate information,
   And the ability to participate in a free and open debate,
   Can Reach decisions that will:
   1. Benefit the whole of society,
   2. Protect liberty,
   3. Extend equality,
   4. Preserve freedom, and thus
   5. Defend democracy.
   
   Do you think America as a whole can achieve this? Could we as a Nation ever come togeather to do this?

   replyreport
   1. 60

      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ...no!

      replyreport
      1. 60

         dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         agree!

         replyreport
   2. 61

      uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Democracy is five wolves and four sheep voting on the lunch menu.

      replyreport
   3. 59

      Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The only way America can ever achieve true Democracy is to destroy the Constitutional Republic we were founded as.
      
      Accurate information is one requirement you can not count on. Nor can you count on most people checking to see if the imformation they are receiving is accurate. Lies are presently accepted as fact and yet this doesn't stop the efforts to achieve democracy.
      
      Democracy doesn't protect liberties, It allows the majority to determine who gets which liberties and who does not.
      
      Democracy doesn't extend equality, or preserve freedom, unless you are part of the mob that is currently ruling.
      
      A Constitutional Republic is the only form of government that benifits society as a whole, protects the freedoms of all, the liberties of all, and extends equality to all. These are the reasons those who are attempting to rule by mob rule, have tried so hard to convince America that we are a Democracy. If the masses belkieve that the majority rules, they will be inclined to join the mob to achieve the belief that they have the right to decide for others. It's working pretty well and considering the declining intelligence levels in this country, it is no wonder. That old song about the flag is a perfect example. And to the Republic for which it stands is ignored while the country argues about the addition to the song made in circa 1955. I do believe Francis Scott Key knew a little more aboiut the early day's of this country than those who never finished high school today do. I wonder why he didn't just say...And to the Democracy for which it stands. Democracy is just another arguement that too many people feel is actually worth having. If you do some research you will find that nothing about America was intended to be a Democracy. I believe the first time the phrase Democracy was used to describe America was in the early 20th century.

      replyreport
      1. 61

         uncorrectedvisionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         We are a republic and it is as a republic that we survive.  It is the Army of the Republic that fought the Confederacy in the Civil War not the Army of the Democracy.  I hope we never become a democracy - I can think of nothing more dangerous to liberty than democracy.  Try this thought exercise.  You have 250,000,000 people making far less and living far less lavishly than 50,000,000 of their fellow citizens.  Should the majority have the right to vote the personal, private, individual's property into a pool to be shared by all? What if the vote was 150,000,001 to 149,999,999 to take all the property from those in the minority vote and give it to the majority.  Democracy is rule of the mob and it frightened the founders.  It is 5 wolves and 4 sheep voting on what is for lunch. Good to be a wolf, very bad to be a sheep.

         replyreport
2. 71

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   Not with the current level of chosen ignorance, for which, has too many people either living in fear or barely living, while the upper 1% does what it feels like.
   
   However, I do have several hubs dedicated to politics and social issues. I'm sure in combination, could deliver upon it, but it would take quite a change from what is considered normal.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree Cag, it would take a real change of heart I believe. Not sure any more, that we could even attempt to do that as a group. Much less as a Congress or Senate, I am begining to believe. 
      
      your spot on about the 1% I think.

      replyreport
      1. 71

         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         A change of heart? Maybe. But, I am more incline to talk about willingness to understand self more than anything else.
         
         Too many people simply don't understand their life and rather not take the time to learn about it. They are operating on the same knowledge and understanding of the previous generations of family and traditions, for which, do not work any longer.
         
         Society, humanity, must evolve it's way of thinking, to move forward. That means, more people need to be more consciously active about certain aspects.

         replyreport
         1. 60

            dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I see your points here, I have to agree, I really do.   
            
            I guess it's Fear of loss maybe, fear that some-one else will not participate like possibly you would. Fear of some one becoming maybe more devious in their intent than the other person, all fear and mis-information I think. Lots of ignorance.
            
            and it boils down to so much missed opertunity and lost time, and we miss it and miss it, and miss it again. 
            
            I guess I am reflective here in a way, I stopped writing my Hub page, I just dont like, anymore, the angle and approach I had with it.
            
            With the exception of the Poetry I put on, I just dont like it anymore. I am begining to think it is going to have to come down to people first, not political position and opinion. We need healing in this world, a lot of it to.
            
            I don't know, It's just we, myself included, seem not to have a solid grip on stuff. Not the right info or something, but not enough about people, space dignity, appreciation for others maybe...can't define it. But the whole feel is wrong to me now.  Don't know why...

            replyreport
3. 73

   Jeff Berndtposted 13 years ago

   The problem is that not everyone (even people of goodwill) agrees on what it means to benefit the whole of society, protect liberty, extend equality, preserve freedom, and thus defend Democracy.
   
   Some think that the best way to protect liberty is to ensure that government is as weak as possible, so it can't infringe upon your individual liberty (or that of your corporate neighbor, who might be violating your property rights by polluting your property with their unwanted by-products).
   
   Some think that the best way is to make sure that government is strong enough to intervene on your behalf (because as an individual, you don't have anywhere close to the resources necessary to fight a court battle with a corporation as your opponent) to stop your corporate neighbor from violating your property rights.
   
   The problem is that in practice, both of those ideas are flawed. in one, the corporation can do as it pleases and the individual gets screwed royally*. In the other, the corporation spends money to influence elections, causes regulations to be written in such a way that the corporation can do whatever it wants, and the individual still gets screwed royally.
   
   At least with the second option, the corporation's power gets checked a tiny bit, since they have to at least pretend that they haven't hired a lackey in Washington, and the lackey in Washington has to at least pretend he doesn't work for the corporation.
   
   *Which is funny, considering that we had a revolution to abolish royalty.

   replyreport
4. 60

   dutchman1951posted 13 years ago

   good points here, very

   replyreport
5. 64

   TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

   I think this speaks to the original question better than I ever could:
   
   
   
   "By a divine paradox, wherever there is one slave there are two. So in the wonderful reciprocities of being, we can never reach the higher levels until all our fellows ascend with us.”  - Edwin Markham

   replyreport
   1. 60

      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      profound Spider, very.

      replyreport
      1. 64

         TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you - I only wish I could take credit for it!! At least I found it

         replyreport
6. 87

   Shil1978posted 13 years ago

   Why only America, what about the others? I don't think "real democracy" exists anywhere. It is an ideal IMHO. I'd be happy to stand corrected on this though!!

   replyreport
   1. 60

      dutchman1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It can be anywhere you choose.  If you like to you can apply the question to what ever country you are thinking of.  I was thinking about Americans because I live here. And was reflecting on this last current mid-term election and our nations divide.
      
      But...is it realy an ideal?   could it be possible..? Could we change and accept this..?

      replyreport