The Antikythera Mechanism

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   lovepsychic161posted 13 years ago

   The Antikythera mechanism is an ancient mechanical computer designed to calculate astronomical positions. It was recovered in 1900–01 from the Antikythera wreck. Its significance and complexity were not understood until decades later. Its time of construction is now estimated between 150 and 100 BCE. The degree of mechanical sophistication is comparable to a 19th century Swiss clock. Technological artifacts of similar complexity and workmanship did not reappear until the 14th century, when mechanical astronomical clocks were built in Europe.
   Jacques-Yves Cousteau visited the wreck for the last time in 1978, but found no additional remains of the Antikythera mechanism. Professor Michael Edmunds of Cardiff University who led the most recent study of the mechanism said: "This device is just extraordinary, the only thing of its kind. The design is beautiful, the astronomy is exactly right. The way the mechanics are designed just makes your jaw drop. Whoever has done this has done it extremely carefully ... in terms of historic and scarcity value, I have to regard this mechanism as being more valuable than the Mona Lisa."
   The device is displayed at the National Archaeological Museum of Athens, accompanied by a reconstruction made and donated to the museum by Derek de Solla Price. Other reconstructions are on display at the American Computer Museum in Bozeman, Montana, the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, the Children's Museum of Manhattan in New York, and in Kassel, Germany.

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      melporposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Lovepsychic161, I was just reading your forum post about this device. I read about it approximately two years ago in an article in "Scientific American, December 2009 issue, page 76". It is a very interesting piece of equipment for it time. If you want to get more information on this ancient device I suggest you read this article. There is a lot of information here. Good luck on writing about this and welcome to hubpages.

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         lovepsychic161posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         i stumbled upon it in the net. did you know that there a are still numerous discoveries for the past 50 years that scientists are still clueless till now?
         
         thanks. best regards!

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            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I do know of some, but would like to know all of them.

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               lovepsychic161posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               for starters, here's a few:
               The Baigong Pipes
               The Giant Stone Balls of Costa Rica
               The Baghdad Batteries
               The Bloop
               
               

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                  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Thank you, I will enjoy these.

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                     lovepsychic161posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Your welcome!
                     
                     If you, yourself, have found other similar things, please share them as well.

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                        earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I will, thank you.

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   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   Wow! Great information and fascinating that it was made so early.
   
   I will try to find out more about this. It's very exciting to find bits of history that don't fit what we believed was then known.
   Thanks for this.

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I just found this working model. It is even more amazing than I thought.
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eUibFQKJqI

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   superwagsposted 13 years ago

   That really is absolutely incredible! Amazing stuff. I cannot believe that they could predict eclipses!
   
   Incidentally, I've met the Prof quoted in the OP - but he was giving a talk on groundwater pollution. I want to know how a hydrologist ended up on this project?! I'm off to investigate  -I'd quite like to know how you get to cherry pick projects from all disciplines too!

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   CMHypnoposted 13 years ago

   You should put together a hub from this info - all us history/archaeology types would love to read it!

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      True. I think this would make a wonderful hub. I agree there would be many who would enjoy it.

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      lovepsychic161posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      please do make one and invite us all!

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   recommend1posted 13 years ago

   If I remember rightly - this mechanism depends on the understanding of how the solar system works, ie the planets going around the sun.
   
   Why would anyone be surprised that this kind of mechanism did not continue in normal production for the next 1500 years as the christians turned the clock back to zero - is why it was the 'dark' ages, the dumbing down of the population through misinformation and terror - sound familiar ?

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes it is a mechanical calender with the capacity to track the then known planets.
      You are right about the dark ages too.

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      just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is one of the weaknesses I find in the argument against Christianity. Exactly how did you come up with the conclusion that this device and any information like it were buried by the evil Christians? I didn't catch that in the documentary I saw on it, or the information I just looked up online.

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I think the point being made here is not so much that "evil Christians" conspired to remove all traces of the Antikythera mechanism specifically.
         
         That mechanism, if shown to be completely authentic for its time, is a symbol and beacon to the ingenuity of men in a time when superstitions, myths and a host of gods ruled mankind's mindset, a monolith of achievement that could have changed the world had it not been for the rule and influence of superstitious and mythical thinking.
         
         Had it been the other way round in which mankind embraced such a mechanism as to trigger their thinking processes rather than fall prey to faith based beliefs, Galileo might very well have been the first man on Mars rather than the his plight of being a shining example of the Inquisition and the atrocities of the church.

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            just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Unfortuntately, that isn't what was said at all.  Recommend1 wrote:
            
            Why would anyone be surprised that this kind of mechanism did not continue in normal production for the next 1500 years as the christians turned the clock back to zero - is why it was the 'dark' ages, the dumbing down of the population through misinformation and terror - sound familiar ?
            
            I don't think the point was lost.
            
            
            
            Since this mechanism was obviously created during a time in our history when gods and superstitions abounded. It appears to me, someone already was thinking. Of all the gods that abounded, none stood in the way.
            
            But that isn't really the point, and I am sure you are intelligent enough to see that.  Idle speculation is pointless.  Neither you, or I, have any idea what course history might have taken without Christianity. Blaming it for everything from spilled milk to lost devices is inane.

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            qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Beelz:
            Excellent response!
            Thumbs up!
            Qwark

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         recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         The weakness lies in your statement.  You require 'information' from the source itself as though the source is the arbiter of the information - when it is just an informed article about this device, not the device itself or its creator.  Then you cannot find 'information' on the internet and so you question my statement - when what you find on the internet is mostly just somebody's   'statement'.
         
         The inability to apply reason is why people blindly follow, and the reason why many people 'follow' religion, or any other ideology.
         
         I took the 'fact' of the existence of the device that is claimed to be made BC, along with the 'fact' that the true nature of the workings of our solar system were common knowlege BC, some say back to Stonehenge several thousand years before this time, then I put that information with the general supression of information by the christians through the charming habit of torturing and burning anyone who knew anything as witches and wizards.
         
         Thinking for yourself is allowed, reason is how we find out most things, following the disinformation trail through the internet only leads to more confusion because those people who have no reasoning ability endlessly repeat the nonsense they are fed to fill the world with their ignorance.

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            just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Well prejudice can taint your ability to come to rational conclusions. But, those who are prejudiced are usually blind to the fact. Please proceed.

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               recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               So . . .   because I appy reason, then give you an outline of the reasoning . . . you conclude that I am prejudiced.
               
               

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                  just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Not in the least. It is a reasonable line of thinking, but  you conclude with an assumption and state it as fact. Your assumption is based on a preconceived notion born of prejudice. There is more than one possible answer to the mystery of this device. The assumption you choose to  end with gives insight to the ones you will, most likely, always end with. Hence, you didn't really think that hard at all. You were inclined to end that way no matter what facts were presented.

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                     recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     So you have a preconception that I have made an assumption.
                     
                     It is not an assumption or preconception that scientific knowledge was violently suppressed under christianity, this is why it is called the dark ages.
                     
                     It is not an assumption or preconception that scientific devices, along with the ancient accumulation of knowedge, was destroyed and hidden from the masses to keep them in ignorance.
                     
                     It is not an assumption or preconception that these scientific advances were kept and developed by the Islamic areas of the world, which is why they were advanced technically and in general civilization and won the crusade wars.
                     
                     It is not an assumption or preconception that mathematics was also brutally suppressed, the Islamic world gave us modern mathematics and christianity denied its use to its people for hundreds of years while they argued that evil would spill into the world through the hole in the zero.  These are all facts that I used in consideration of my brief comment about this device.

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                        just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Thank you, for proving my point.

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                           recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Now you have lost me.  You have no argument or information to back your vague insult that was a response to my comment - and you think I am somehow 'proving' your point ?
                           
                           I guess I am thinking and you are just a christian then ?

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                              just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              No. I'm not a Christian..I'm not an atheist either. I have no affiliation at the moment. Gives me perspective..
                              
                              Like I said, and you eloquently verified; you have preconceived notions of Christianity that taint your ability to consider alternative answers to this mystery.

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                                 recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 and this is your assumption only - and you continue to talk abaout nothing when you could be answering my 'accusation'.  I think you are just unenlightened but I would not presume to call you names over it until you prove yourself to be so.  Want to try proving it, either way ?

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                                    just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    I'm not at all sure what more you want me to say. You have drawn a conclusion with insufficient evidence presented. Your reasons for coming to that conclusion are presented as a diatribe against Christianity. I think you said it all.
                                    
                                    Were you presented with any mystery from any point in antiquity, you could use that argument and feel as sure of your conclusions as you do right now.
                                    
                                    Thus, you probably didn't spend a moment in thought over this one. You reached in your head, pulled out prejudices already formed and presented them as an answer.
                                    
                                    It's kind of like when the dingo ate the baby. It may have happened once, but that's not the answer to every missing baby.

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                                    Slarty O'Brianposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    All she is saying is that you do not know for a fact that the device was suppressed by the church even though you know there was suppression of science by the church.
                                    
                                    She is right. Where as we know that Galileo's work was suppressed, we don't know anything about this particular device or it's actual history, but you are making statements that assume it was suppressed by the church in fact.
                                    
                                    I don't think you can fault her reasoning. There were a lot of ancient inventions that were lost without the church's help, Of course you could be right too. There is no way to tell for sure unless we find some record of it being suppressed.

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                                       just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       Thanks for stating that a little more clearly. The problem I have with assumptions is they provide a convenient roadblock to the search for answers.

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         melporposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Recommend1, the device was found in a shipwreck underwater by divers off the coast of Antikythera Island.  Christianity have absolutely nothing to do with this device.

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            just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            And they think it predates Christ. I think it's humorous that there are those who believe the early Christians were time travelers.

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               mohitmisraposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Desperately trying to find a flaw to blame Christianity like all the evil in  the world arose because of  Jesus , you used the correct word "inane".
               what else can they do. ?
               Its habitual.
               
               Ask beezlebum about Chi energy/

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      Sara Tposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      from what i've read on the mechanism, it is actually designed around the theory of everything else revolving around the earth. however it appears to have been pretty accurate, considering. and seeing as only one was ever found, you have no proof that there was ever a "production line" spitting these out. it was more probably the work of an individual who, for some reason we will never know, only made one. after all it must have been very time-consuming and exhausting to make even one item so precise with the tools available at the time.
      
      i honestly don't know why this thread is under "religion and philosophy", nor do i understand what the point of the thread is since the OP reads like an article and does not pose any questions. however trying to claim that christianity conspired to cover up the existence of such a device is too far-fetched in this situation. the early christians tried to cover up a lot of things - pagan holiays for example - but there is evidence of that. there is no evidence linking christianity to the antikythera mechanism.

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   melporposted 13 years ago

   Guys, how did this become a discussion about religion? We are talking about an incredible, complex, device built about 2000 years ago and discovered in 1901 accidentally by sponge divers.

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      recommend1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Just from a random comment from me about how this,other 'advanced' devices, mathematics, medical and general knowledge were buried for 1500 years by christianity until the Renaissance broke the 'dark' ages.  This comment arose because I perceive a similarity between those times and the current 'information' times where countless bits of ignorance and superstition attempt to bury the light of reason.

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   lovepsychic161posted 13 years ago

   hey, the comments are overwhelming, thanks. just to clarify, so far i've read, no known evidence would suggest what it is used for and how it is used. to date, these assumptions are still not verified.
   
   if something pops up though let me know. but sure thing, if it messes with time, we can't afford that to work--butterfly effect, you know.
   
   best regards guys!

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   dutchman1951posted 13 years ago

   this device is facinating to me, like a global positioning system based on stellar rotation, amazing

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      Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's no mystery at all!  It originated in Atlantis, of course!
      
      
      
      
                                       
      
      
      
      
      Just kidding, but perhaps mechanisms such as this might have helped perpetuate the myth of the fabled "Lost continent."

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         lovepsychic161posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Not at all. Great writers and renowned person in the past have not deemed the idea of a city such as Atlantis to be false.
         
         For instance, in Plato's account, Atlantis was a naval power lying "in front of the Pillars of Hercules" that conquered many parts of Western Europe and Africa 9,000 years before the time of Solon, or approximately 9600 BC. After a failed attempt to invade Athens, Atlantis sank into the ocean "in a single day and night of misfortune."
         
         The philosopher Crantor, a student of Plato's student Xenocrates, is often cited as an example of a writer who thought the story to be historical fact.
         
         Proclus, Marcellus, Zoticus, among others also claims the same.
         
         The search for this city is neither conclusive nor has been stopped. Similarly, it would not be an insult to associate such with this, since the mechanism was found by sponge divers at the bottom of the sea near the island of Antikythera, a Greek island community in the Ionian Sea just above the Mediterranean Sea where most of the historically proposed locations are in.

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   paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

   The Antikythera Mechanism
   
   The new discoveries confirm that the mechanism is an astronomical analog calculator or orrery used to predict the positions of celestial bodies. This work proposes that the mechanism possessed 37 gears, of which 30 survive, and was used for prediction of the position of the Sun and the Moon. Based on the inscriptions, which mention the stationary points of the planets, the authors speculate that planetary motions may also have been indicated.
   
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

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    paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

    As one atheists put it here atheism surfaced only in eighteenth century; so there is all probability that he Antikythera Mechanism was made by someone having faith in the Creator-God. Science has been an important part of the truthful religion, always.

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    paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

    There is all probability that the Antikythera Mechanism was made by someone having faith in the Creator-God. Science has been an important part of the truthful religion, always.
    
    As one atheists put it here atheism surfaced only in eighteenth century

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