Shooting Bin Laden

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   marwan asmarposted 12 years ago

   The Americans went into the compound, and shot Bin Laden point plank under the noses of the Pakistanis. Is this a fair assessment?

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      dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Marwan, yes, very fair. They intended to kill him, never capture I believe.
      From the statements made and released, I think it was a pre-determined conclusion they were going to do this.

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   2. 88

      Shil1978posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, that's fair. They had good reason to not inform the Pakistanis. Apparently, the Pakistanis tipped Osama and the Taliban leadership about a prior attack ordered by Pres. Clinton, so this time around, they just didn't want to take a chance. I don't believe for a second that the Pakistanis were not aware of Osama being in that house.
      
      The Pakistani ISI has been playing a double game with the Americans/allies since day one. Their ultimate aim is to install a friendly govt. in Afghanistan. The moment the Americans leave, they'd partner with the Taliban and Al-Qaeda remnants and work to destabilize the current Afghan Govt.
      
      I am not sure what Obama can do about this, but it seems crazy to me that they are giving the Pakistanis high-tech military equipment and aid, when they are working to undermine US goals.

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         qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Shil:
         Pls explain why the majority of we Americans say things like:
         "I am not sure what Obama can do about this,..."
         Obama doesn't make the decisions.
         There are 4 facets of American gov't to be considered in making final decisions i.e. the pres, the congress, the senate, the supreme court.
         Obama is just the titular head of country! He can suggest and veto but ways are available to "get around" his vetoes.
         It's bothersome that most of us Americans don't understand how gov't works and blame 1 man for our woes when in a Republic those who are voted into office, at all levels, govern!
         Vote smarter Americans! You are a scary lot!
         Qwark

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         1. 88

            Shil1978posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Well, let me clarify. I am not an Obama hater. What I meant was that the Pakistanis are a deceptive lot and aren't going to pursue American interests. On the contrary, they will try to sabotage American plans and put American lives at risk.
            
            When I said that I meant what Obama and all the rest of the American govt. combined can do about this troublesome "ally" or foe rather? How are they going to make Pakistan fight the terrorists targeting the States and other European allies. It seems to me that the Pakistanis are only interested in fighting the elements that pose them a direct threat.

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         qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Shil:
         Evidently you didn't read a prior post of mine.
         Here it is:
         "Pakistan needs the 7.5 billion dollars promised them over the next 5 yrs (our tax $'s hard at work.)
         Pakistan will give lip service to both its and our needs to satisfy everyone from everyside.
         Politics is controlled by money!
         People are expendable and replaceable!
         Why is that so hard to understand?
         The "game" is being played and the masses propagandized.
         The chess board is alive and all sides are dedicated to making the game look real to all watching and, importantly, nobody "loses face" in doing so...
         ...and the rich get richer!
         Qwark

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         1. 88

            Shil1978posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I am aware of the $ being given to Pakistan in the name of "military aid" to fight the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, though I am sure all of these $ would end getting diverted to fund a future war with arch-enemy India. The "game" is being played by Pakistan. They know full well that the US can't stay in Afghanistan forever. They are biding their time and providing support to the Haqqani network and their likes to wage their war in Afghanistan.
            
            Until and unless countries such as Pakistan are made to give up all kinds of support to all kinds of terrorist groups, the threat of another terrorist attack won't go away. It will just be a matter of time before the next big terrorist attack. Pakistan is a big problem and I am not sure the Obama Administration or any other that would come in the future know how to handle it.
            
            Remember, this is a country with nuclear weapons and no one quite knows how secure these nuclear weapons are. So, how does one handle Pakistan and make them accountable and perhaps secure their nukes? How??

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               qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Shil:
               
               Of course!
               
               You just made my point! TY.
               
               I'm looking at the "big picture," you are breaking it down to specifics.
               
               You and I will never know what the under-the-table machinations are.
               
               My mind collects trivia, categorizes it, fits all the pieces together and macro concepts appear.
               
               I set the "trivia" aside for referrence.
               
               I view the reality of human immaturity, its burgeoning ineptness and understand that as the world shrinks, in terms of human contact and activity, the more complex becomes the game of "oneupsmanship!"
               
               As I said, it's a deadly, childish chess game that no one can win, but persuasive propaganda can be created that keeps the masses, TEMPORARILY, sated and controlled.
               
               Now that Bin Laden had been eliminated "with prejudice," we shall see what effect his death will have on the game.
               
               It's their move.
               
               Qwark

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2. 79

   earnestshubposted 12 years ago

   I don't know what the truth is yet, but I do know that Pakistan is in trouble at home if they helped, and trouble abroad if they didn't.

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      Shil1978posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Lol - they sure are in trouble either ways. Either the Americans managed to take advantage of blind spots in their radar/air defense network - the supposed 'stealth' helicopter might have helped as well - or the Pakistanis consented to the raid, but don't want to take credit for their involvement. I believe the former is the more likely scenario.

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3. 65

   marwan asmarposted 12 years ago

   In all honesty, it seems that they did know given the security cooperation between the two countries, and may even be in cahoots,but as you are implying the domestic imperatives mean they keep a low profile.

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   1. 59

      DTR0005posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What is the reaction in Jordan to this? Both governmental and popular reaction.

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      1. 60

         dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Jordon will morn Ben Lauden, then the radical element will march and burn flags etc... Get all latherd up, so to speak, I believe it is already happening some.
         
         The Gov. in place there will allow it I think,  because it takes the emphasis off of rebelion against their  Dictatorial Regieme thats in place. Gives them a common enemy; the U.S.A..

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         marwan asmarposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Its all quite on the eastern front. The government is agauinst terrorism of any kind; the people's mood is subdued esp concerning BL

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   2. 79

      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I see you get my drift. It is an almost impossible squeeze for Pakistan, as it is their people who will get hammered unless the current round of meetings can find a story that can be sold to the enemy within.
      
      It's a lot easier to criticize when we don't have to wear the repercussions as Pakistan does in my view.
      
      They have already lost thousands to the Taliban and other terrorist groups within their borders and don't need the screaming masses making up lies any more than we do. Hard to stop the American partisans from pretending to support Obama because it would be political suicide to do otherwise, then short sheeting him and Pakistan on the way through.

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         dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think, guessing or at best betting on our congress and senate in the U.S,-  from looking at their past history.,  That the aid to Pakastan will remain in place, but I have to agree here, we need to get to the facts not the lies. There are real and innocent people there that will get hammerd either way in this mess.

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   Pearldiverposted 12 years ago

   I think they are all debating how his pet dog was able to walk him through the streets of Pakistan, San Diego and London, Without Any Body
   
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/74693#post1620148

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      SomewayOuttaHereposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      ...wow!...I didn't realize...is that true? 

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         Pearldiverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         We didn't get a chance to ask the vet - but apparently he'd not seen him coming or going

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   qwarkposted 12 years ago

   Pakistan needs the 7.5 billion dollars promised them over the next 5 yrs (our tax $'s hard at work.)
   Pakistan will give lip service to both its and our needs to satisfy everyone from everyside.
   Politics is controlled by money!
   People are expendable and replaceable!
   Why is that so hard to understand?
   The "game" is being played and the masses propagandized.
   The chess board is alive and all sides are dedicated to making the game look real to all watching and, importantly, nobody "loses face" in doing so...
   ...and the rich get richer!
   Qwark

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   1. 79

      earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I admit the money is a motivation Qwark.
      I also admit that politics is a putrid business but there is still the truth that Pakistan will be evil to many regardless of which side they support.
      I don't think the truth will all come out until there are changes made in Pakistan.
      
      Of course the best course of action would have been to stay out of Afghanistan and Iraq, then maybe none of this would have happened.
      
      I agree, the rich get richer.
      
      Halliburton got rich doing a fifth rate job of rebuilding what was recklessly blown up in Iraq.
      They destroyed a beautiful city and half the country .....all this to go after Suddam, one man.

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         qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Earn:
         "I also admit that politics is a putrid business but there is still the truth that Pakistan will be evil to many regardless of which side they support.
         I don't think the truth will all come out until there are changes made in Pakistan."
         I agree with that.
         What are the chances that change will be realized?
         Zilch!
         As long as a 'bankrupt" nation keeps pledging money to any nation, they will "kiss ass."
         We are "fudging" a little on the 7.5 billion to Pakistan. We haven't sent them much yet.
         Russia went broke In Afghanistan. We're headed in the same direction.
         The game goes on!
         Qwark

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      dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      you may have something here qwark, sounds like it exactly to me.
      
      Power=money, everything else is fadder, including people

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         qwarkposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Dutchman:
         Yep!
         Qwark

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6. 79

   earnestshubposted 12 years ago

   Some interesting ideas and good information in this thread.

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7. 67

   Pearldiverposted 12 years ago

   It is interesting that our PM today started talking about his need for more dollars (currently 5mil) in his personal security budget. Apparently he has threats as a result of our troops in the Poppy Fields.  Top SAS Boys in their environment.
   Here comes the Stage Three Security rollouts I would say.  This Really is All BS..and they are slipping changes through under the smokescreen of Arab Uprisings etc.

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8. 71

   thisisoliposted 12 years ago

   Maybe now that Osama is dead they can go after the people in Saudi Arabia from where the 9/11 plot originated lol.

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