9 million Americans have had NDE episodes....

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   aguasilverposted 12 years ago

   Would be interested to see what comments folk make about this video:
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFxc67bL … n&NR=1
   
   Dr. Pim van Lommel is a cardiologist who has experienced many patients having near death experiences, and noted the changes in them afterwards.
   
   I was amazed to hear him quote that nearly 9 million Americans have had NDE episodes.
   
   Please try to watch the whole video before making a comment.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Wow - that is shocking - nearly 3% of Americans did not die. That is incredible. Amazing really! Shocking stuff. What conclusions do you draw Agua? Is your Invisible Super Being Real after all?
      
      Does god almost, but not quite, kill people to prove he exists? Do you think people actually go to heaven and come back? From what you have told us about your experiences and knowing heaven as you do - I find that surprising.
      
      How many people found themselves stood in front of a Super Being and being judged?
      
      Must have been a lot huh? Was He wearing Judge's robes n stuff?
      
      

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         aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Did you actually watch the video? (all of it?) or are your preconceptions so firmly implanted that your eye blur and fade when something you cannot agree to comes into your vision?

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            Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Preconceptions? I don't have those. My own NDE has no bearing on what I think of other people's internal, subjective experiences.
            
            Am I speaking to your god now - or you?

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               aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               So I presume you did NOT actually watch what this Dr spoke about?
               
               Actually he was not making any reference to God at all.
               
               You would not need to write to speak to God, just be prepared to listen to Him.
               
               What DID you experience in your own NDE?

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Seen it before.
                  I know. It is majikal afterlives.
                  So - are you speaking for him now - or am I speaking to you? I get confused - you are so much alike.
                  I no longer share personal experiences on HP forums.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      John: I hate acronyms with a passion. They show total laziness, in pronouncing the full term of the words being used.
      
      So nine million Americans have experienced an episode. How is this significant to anything?

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      John to a Born Again Christian, this is something we should view and take in our stride, for We Know, that regardless of whether satan desires the life of a person or not, God and only God has the right and the power to request or demand one of His Children report home to Him in heaven and if it is not according to God's perfect timing and according to God's perfect Will, that person will not die their physical death, for God is not finished with them on earth.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I watched the video and identified many woo-woo claims. This clown wants all science to change to include subjective experiences as fact.

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         aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         This 'clown' is a qualified cardiologist though, and started of as a sceptic, so I guess he is harder to decry, especially as he does not mention Christ or indeed any religious aspect, all he wants is to have science investigate and research what he has witnessed and documented.
         
         What are folk afraid of, the fact that he may have discovered a truth?
         
         Penicillin came from an accidental observation, and the guy who suggested that doctors washed their hands between patients got drummed out of the profession... why are rational scientists unprepared to investigate anything that challenges their perceptions?

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            Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry you don't understand. These are internal subjective experiences. There is no way of measuring them. None. They are in the person's head. If we one day discover the ability to objectively measure these experiences, no doubt it will become a science.
            
            For the time being - we are incapable of doing anything like that - so - it is still in the realm of woo-woo.
            
            You do know what "science," means - right?
            
            Why do we have to be "afraid," because we don't consider woo-woo to be science?
            
            Seeing as you ignore reality - no doubt your narrow minded perceptions will never be challenged.

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               Aficionadaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               
               Hi, Mark.
               
               Actually, there has been some scientific research on another type of internal subjective experience: the perception of pain.  That is one thing that is also very difficult to measure from one person to another.  Still... when I was going through Lamaze classes and reading about childbirth (30 years ago), I learned about a research project that had studied people's perception of pain and, believe me, it helped me immensely when I was in labor.
               
               That was a type of psychological study, of course.  When intelligent and committed researchers continue making similar studies - and affirming or challenging them - the methodology should be able to improve.  But I agree (of course) that it will not be possible to verify the results in the same way that scientists can verify the rate of growth of bacteria or similar physical measurements.  But it seems to me that that speaks to the importance of doing research - to continue to refine methodology in disciplines that are harder to study and measure.
               
               BTW, I have not seen the linked video.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Good oh!
                  
                  When you have watched it - see if it has any likely bearing on reality.

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                     Aficionadaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     It was interesting, but I don't think I learned or heard anything new. I've read books and articles about NDE's for decades, and a lot of what I've read was similar to what this man said. As much as I would love to believe these are glimpses of an afterlife, I have also read that certain drugs and brain conditions may be the same as or similar to what has been described by those who say they have experienced NDE'S (as Habee said).
                     
                     I know two people that I know of who say they have had one. Both were Christians before the experience and remained so afterward. But I also know a Christian woman who was considered to have gone through clinical death and brought back from it, and she was surprised that she did not have an NDE.
                     
                     Back to the video - I wonder where he got the figure of 9 million? and I wonder whether the people who noticed the changes in the NDE-experiencers were truly objective. That is, were the changes observed by people who were unaware of the NDE?
                     
                     Then, on the subject of measuring things objectively, I can see two aspects of NDE's that could be measured in a concrete way (and perhaps have been already): one is whether the rate of them is any different among patients who have been given certain pharmaceuticals than the rate of them among the overall NDE-patient population; and, secondly, whether the rate of occurrence is any different among people with certain personality types. Of course, in order to get any sort of accuracy, scientists would have to be fairly confident of an accurate rate of self-reporting, and that can only take place when there is less stigma and ridicule attached to reporting them. That seemed to me to be one of the major points of the video (besides selling the book).
                     
                     John, I understand what you said about wanting to be able to report on an experience of that type afterwards. But, like the people you mentioned, one of the people I know who had one said that she cried for days afterwards because she didn't want to come back to this life, because what she had experienced had seemed so warm, loving, and beautiful - whatever it actually was.

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                        aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Thank you for an intelligent and considered response.
                        
                        I can imagine that folk who came back would be upset that they had to leave what they found, if the reports are factual, it's a great place to go to!
                        
                        I can also understand they may be less than willing to share the experiences for sciences sake, but until we do start studying this, we may be missing vital information that would help folk make sense of things.
                        
                        If the Dr's statements were correct, his findings would make a radical change in how human consciousness was viewed, and we may make a leap forward in understanding.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, a "Cardiologist" - do you know what that is?
            
            
            
            No, he doesn't, he wants science to change entirely to suit his agenda.
            
            
            
            No, the fact that he is spreading false information and is deceiving others.
            
            
            
            Strawman argument.
            
            
            
            Nonsense does not challenge scientists.

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   habeeposted 12 years ago

   My mother and my sister-in-law both had NDEs. My sister-in-law was able to tell the doctor details she witnessed while she was clinically dead. BTW, she's a completely rational, no-nonsense registered nurse.
   
   I started a hub about their experiences a while back. Guess I need to finish it. lol

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      aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Good idea!
      
      Strange as it may seem I would be open to experiencing a NDE, as long as I could come back and report on it!
      
      On the other hand folk who do come back seem to say they wanted to stay where they were at!
      
      Oh well, I guess I will find out at the right time!

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   habeeposted 12 years ago

   My family members didn't see a supreme being or any dead relatives. They were able, however, to relate activities that went on when they were "gone." They didn't see a tunnel or a light, either, which can often be reproduced clinically with drugs.
   
   How ya been, Mark?

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      Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Busy. I did not see any dead relatives or Majikal Super Beings or tunnels either. Weird huh?

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         habeeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         No FSM?

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            Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I sensed her presents.

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   tea4meplzposted 12 years ago

   peace,
   i dont  think using acronyms is  that big of a deal in a setting like a chat/message forum.. i mean doc or not, relax.. its just not that serious

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