Where is an Illegal Act Rewarded!

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   rhamsonposted 8 years ago

   In America of course. If you go to a foreign country either legally or illegally and stay there, is it right to expect citizenship be awarded to you? The term "Anchor Baby" is now offensive to the PC crowd because of why? It speaks the truth! Many come here ready to drop a baby or through other circumstances become pregnant, and claim the rights of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution securing a right to remain even though it was based on an illegal act of being here.
   
   "The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868, as one of the Reconstruction Amendments. The amendment addresses citizenship rights and equal protection of the laws, and was proposed in response to issues related to former slaves following the American Civil War." [1]
   
   Much legislation and Supreme Court arguments have been spawned by this legislation yet we scratch our heads and continue to allow it to continue. I don't much like Trump but on this issue I agree that we should send them all packing. The method for the ones born here to return should have some special considerations. Where I stray from Trump is that we need to eliminate the employer drunk fest of hiring low wage illegals. Fine the HELL out of them and if they reoffend require jail time.
   
   [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

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      Don Wposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Let me play devil's advocate. If you are born in the United States to parents who are in the country illegally, should you be sent away from the country you have grown up in, possibly the only country you have ever known, to a country you don't know and have possibly never even been to? What "special considerations" could make that fair to a child or young adult? And doesn't that prompt the question and answer: where is the act of being born, punished? In America of course.

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      1. 72

         rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         If my parents knowingly crossed a border illegally and then decided to have a family I would expect to be treated as a family member of them. The parents made the decision for them just as they make the decisions to clothe and house them as they please. What does the illegal act teach the children? If you do something illegal and get away with it long enough it doesn't matter? Because the circumstances change ie. being born in the US, it erases the wrong? It's alright because it didn't hurt anybody? Not really? Why even make a rule if it is just one of those fuzzy laws based on a it doesn't matter because a relative will be affected philosophy?
         
         Because of the lapse of enforcement of the immigration laws we now have a huge populace that do not give a sh!* about us or our country or improving the country. Why did they run away from their country and not work for change there. Because it is far too easy to run away to America and realize the American dream of freedom and opportunity bought by others sacrifice and blood. They could have joined the Army and earned it much easier than taking the shortcut of sneaking into the country and setting up house. Many are here to escape their impoverished or corrupt governments and in the process take jobs not bothering to learn a thing about us or our language. Are they Americans? Maybe Central Americans. On the other hand we have employers who hire them at illegal cash wages and abuse every employment law there is in making their profit. Whole industries have been affected and the corporate masters love them. Look at the meat packing industry where illegals are rounded up by the hundreds, no fines assessed and then hire hundreds more the next day to do the low wage jobs they cannot pay Americans to do.
         
         The children of these illegal immigrants should be allowed special dispensation on the list of legal immigration entrance. To gain a permit and entry they must learn the language, our government, our history and have a plan for gainful employment before being admitted and granted full citizenship. That is more than what their parents did for them with their illegal act. If they did this they may just have a greater appreciation for where they came from and where they are going.

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         1. 82

            Don Wposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I get what you are saying, I really do, but apart from the ethical implications of directly punishing a child for an illegal act committed by their parent(s), there is also the small matter of the constitution, which says: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside [my emphasis]".
            
            Regardless of how it came about, these children are citizens of the United States, and therefore have the same rights and protections as other citizens. Creating exceptions based on the immigration status of the parents, could be the start of a very slippery slope. One of the ideals the US is founded on is equality (no ruling class deemed superior - or inferior - purely because of the family they happened to have been born to). I think removing citizenship (and the rights that go with it) from thousands of existing citizens, on the grounds of who their parents are, would be a corruption of that ideal.
            
            Reminds me of the line from Orwell's Animal Farm when the animals write a manifesto containing their ideals. It starts out saying "All animals are equal", but then as the self-interest of the leaders increases, the ideals start to be amended and it becomes "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others". As we know, that book is an allegory of how Soviet communism started out with pure socialist ideals, but then became corrupted and distorted by the unbridled self-interest of its leaders. I'd hate to see the Great Republic Experiment go the same way.

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            1. 72

               rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               In the very first  section of Section 1 it states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" defines the validity of the person in question. Is this an exception to include those committing an illegal act? No. They are put to the litmus test of being subject to a lawful review of their actions in the place they are before being allowed citizenship. If the mother is here illegally and is not held accountable is it likewise acceptable that the person she is birthing is anymore entitled to citizenship in spite of the illegal act?
               
               I am not saying the anchor baby is devoid of options because of their innocence in their parents unlawful act. Deporting the family with a special exception for the child's return is more than fair. Is it fair that those awaiting legal immigration entry into the US are penalized by waiting while illegal immigrants are granted an exception because of their expediential subversion of the law? Just because a loophole found in a law devised to service the many freed slaves after the Civil War has been created by clever lawyers does not mean it applies to those committing a criminal act.

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            2. 89

               GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Don, I think describing it as "punishing the child" is misplaced in the context of discussing the constitutionality of our birthright citizenship, (Anchor babies), issues.
               
               There is another thread also discussing the "subject to the jurisdiction..." phrasing of the 14th Amendment. You might find it interesting to see how the two competing ideologies are supporting their interpretations.
               `Anchor Babies` and "subject to the jurisdiction of the United States"
               
               GA

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                  Don Wposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks I'll take a look.

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2. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 8 years ago

   I would see this compassion for children, who are not capable of being responsible for any crime, as one of the better parts of the US legal system.

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