Trump Jr. public written confession: attempted collusion

1. 67

   ptosisposted 6 years ago

   "We are now beyond obstruction of justice."- Kaine
   
   Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, said any time you're in a campaign and you get an offer from a foreign government the answer is "no."
   
   Trump Jr. on Tuesday tweeted email chain and  was told before the meeting that the harmful information on Clinton was part of a Russian government effort to help his father’s presidential campaign.
   
   Pence is gasping a huge sigh of relief that this happened a month before he joined the campaign.
   
   http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-jr … d=48557183
   
   "No person shall knowingly solicit, accept or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation," reads Title 11 in the Code of Federal Regulations, section 110.20 (g). A contribution can be "anything of value," including negative information about a political opponent.
   
   https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
   
   Trump Jr., Kushner and Manafort would have to "ask for something, and it would have to be an express or implied ask"  - Hansen
   
   "Solicitation need not be successful in order to be illegal"  - Bauer
   
   It is illegal to solicit, accept or receive contributions and donations ― which includes things of value such as opposition research from foreign nationals.
   
   
   
   

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      promisemposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      He is throwing himself under the bus to protect his father. In response, Trump supporters will once again deny everything.

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         ptosisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         45th said in a statement read by Huckabee Sanders that "my son is a high quality person and I applaud his transparency."

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      2. 69

         AshtonFireflyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Exactly. It's really mind boggling seeing the outrageous efforts to justify and explain things like this. And yet, those who dislike Trump are the ones accused of ignoring truth in pursuit of a bias. You know what they say, point your finger at someone, and there's four pointing back at you. Sounds like a lot of projection going on, on the part of the truly biased here. Unbelievable.

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   2. 96

      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      From what I see, a Russian (perhaps on behalf of the govt., perhaps not) offered "dirt" on Clinton.  Jr. set up a meeting to talk - no mention of whether he got that dirt or not.
      
      Isn't this what happens every day in the US?  Do we really believe that no citizen from any other country either published or gave dirt to the campaigns (both of them)?  Does that mean that all of these people "colluded" with the campaigns to further their own cause?  If so, why is it so terrible that it was a Russian in this case?
      
      I see we've gone from not accepting payment for services rendered from a foreign official to not accepting information (as spies do, as dignitaries do, etc.) from any foreign citizen.  Are you sure you wish to claim that as a reason for Trump's (either one) "colluding" with Russia?
      
      But perhaps we mean different things for the term "collusion".  Tell me - do you think Bill Clinton "colluded" with the AG, was that "collusion" intended to have any affect on the election (such as keeping Hillary out of jail) and DID it have any effect (keep her out of jail, alienate thousands/millions, or anything else)?

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         Will Apseposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Al Gore was offered classified info on Bush junior during his election campaign. He reported it to the FBI and did not use it.
         
         Gore was old school. The Trumps are no school.
         
         Your country gets what it deserves and it ain't often honorable candidates.
         
         If the Trumps did take the info, they will have some favors to do in return (mabe the gift of a small Balkan country, lol). If there is a tape, it might be useful for the purposes of blackmail.
         
         And these people are 'draining the swamp'?

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            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            You don't see any difference between a citizen getting classified information and getting street gossip?  How odd!

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               Will Apseposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               Public discourse in the US is so degraded that nothing matters, apparently, beyond your tribal affiliations.

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                  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Sonny, your obnoxious spewing of hatred for the United States and its people has reached the end as far as I'm concerned.  See you around.

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                     Will Apseposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Hit a nerve, lol.
                     
                     There is only one way out your country's problems. Get back to a respect for the truth. A little respect for individuals would do no harm, either.

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                     Live to Learnposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     His posts can be quite irrational.

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      2. 67

         ptosisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I'm just stating the law, you disagree with the law - well not my problem.  I'm not claiming anything. I am merely posting Trump Jr's confessional email chain and highlighting the damming  evidence.
         
         and the"whatabout-ism" of Clinton is a very weak counter argument. It won't hold up in court in your defense.
         
         There's a word for someone who colludes with a foreign power to subvert democracy and overthrow political norms.
         
         Robert Mercer owns Cambridge Analytica, an American company based in London is another story that connects Canadian Facebook data collection company. It must be serious since tried to hide the connection of a foreign (Canada) company helping US elections.
         
         https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ … -democracy

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            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Why won't it hold up?  Clinton got off because no one else had been charged - why not apply the same reasoning to Trump?  If no one else has been convicted, then he can't be either.
            
            But no one tried to "overthrow political norms": it is [b]normal[/i] in America to throw mud, and the more the better.  Again, what is different this time?  Just that the information came from a citizen of a foreign country?

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               ptosisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               "Again, what is different this time?  Just that the information came from a citizen of a foreign country"
               
               DUH!  Wow -  you FINALLY got it. How many link and excerpts of the law did it take for you to finally get it? It's like pulling teeth for you to admit Trump Jr. did something wrong/stupid.
               
               923. 18 U.S.C. § 371—Conspiracy to Defraud the United States
               52 USC 30121, 36 USC 510 —Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

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                  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I spoke to several Scottish people last year, and about the election.  Was I wrong/stupid to do so?
                  
                  In typical liberal fashion, this whole anthill (Trump Jr. actually conversed with a Russian citizen!) is blown into a mountain.  Can't you find something truly wrong, stupid, illegal, immoral to whine about?  Something beyond Clinton's actions, that is?
                  
                  And to decide that a "contribution" is information is what is wrong/stupid.  As is deciding that speaking to a foreign national is "collusion".  Even you have to recognize the massive spin necessary to to make such statements.
                  
                  Tell me - do you believe that when a Russian and American diplomat get together and talk that the Russian is only concerned with the welfare of the United States?  Or will (s)he limit their words to what they think is in the best interests of Russia?

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                     ptosisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Why are you ranting at me? Scots, Clintons, diplomats? WTF? You are sputtering.
                     I didn't write the law, I didn't interpret, I quoted lawyers  and both GOP/Dems.  What do you have? Blathering about Scots? 
                     
                     Section 30121 of Title 52, makes it a crime for any foreigner to contribute or donate money or some “other thing of value” in connection with an American election, or for anyone to solicit a foreigner to do so. Legal experts struggled to identify any precedent for prosecutions under that statute, but that phrase is common in other federal criminal statutes covering such crimes as bribery and threats, said Richard L. Hasen, an election-law professor at the University of California, Irvine. Courts have held, in other contexts, that a “thing of value” can be something intangible, like information. - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/p … paign.html
                     
                     statute includes an “express or implied promise” to give something of value. So in that sense it may not matter whether the thing of value was ever actually provided. - http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p … story.html
                     
                     A contribution does not have to be monetary in nature, according to Paul S. Ryan, an attorney with watchdog group Common Cause. He said incriminating information about Clinton could be considered a contribution under the act. - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t … SKBN19X009
                     
                     
                     Before sputtering and foaming at the mouth with random letters strung together in an attempt to make a coherent paragraph - let's agree to argue over the question: Was the  Federal Election Campaign Act violated? The statute includes an “express or implied promise” to give something of value. So in that sense it may not matter whether the thing of value was ever actually provided.
                     
                     In order to debate that -  you need to know what it says.  Disagreeing with what the law states is not a defense. Until you acknowledge FECA  - there is nothing to discuss with you.
                     
                     https://www.fec.gov/legal-resources/legislation/
                     https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_Electio … ct_of_1971
                     
                     Did Donald Trump Jr. break the law by meeting with Russians to gain dirt on Clinton?
                     Yes,No, Maybe, I Don't Know - just answer please without going off on a tangent deep into left field.
                     
                     IMHO,  Yes, Don Jr. probably violated federal election laws only because non-partisan legal experts say so  - not just one source, many sources with links -  repeatedly.

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                        wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        I "blather" about Scots because it is apparently a tremendous no-no to talk to foreigners.  Doubly so if it has anything to do with an election in the US. 
                        
                        As far as it being illegal, I think you answered your own question: "Legal experts struggled to identify any precedent for prosecutions under that statute"  They struggled, mightily and long, because it was wanted so badly, but just isn't there.  You know, and I know, that Trump JR will never see the inside of a court room over this matter, and rightly so for he has done nothing wrong.  Attempts to gather information, regardless of the source, is not illegal, it is not stupid, it is not wrong.

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                           ptosisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           Michael Iscenko's lawyer, Michael Horn, said, "Experts disagree about whether the material was semen or saliva,"
                           
                           It's still bodily fluid.
                           
                           Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Calif.) introduced an article of impeachment in the House, seeking to remove President Donald Trump from office for obstruction of justice. Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) co-sponsored the article.
                           
                           

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                              wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                Sad, isn't it, when party politics take priority over the needs of running the country.  Such people do not belong in the hallowed halls of congress.
                              
                              But no, you don't get to change the charge from "high crimes and misdemeanors" to "obstruction of justice".

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                                 ptosisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                 Hallowed halls? (choke * gasp!)
                                 Man - what are you smoking?
                                 Or is it an edible?
                                 
                                 Roaches have higher poll numbers than Congress does.
                                 
                                 
                                 I feel that you are a bot.
                                 
                                 “The more we argue with them, the more they know about us,” he says. “It all feeds into a circular system. What we’re seeing here is new era of network propaganda.” - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ … h-facebook

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                                    wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                                    LOL  That "hallowed halls" was intended as sarcasm - the more accurate and realistic description is the "cesspool" of DC. 
                                    
                                    When we visited Edinburgh Castle in Scotland, we were told that the gardens next to it used to be a small lake.  For centuries the refuse from the castle and city were drained into the pond, to the point that a condemned woman, tied and weighted, was thrown into the lake where she floated on the muck.  She was released and survived the "execution".
                                    
                                    That's how I view those "hallowed halls".

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2. 67

   ptosisposted 6 years ago

   
   
   Rinat Akhmetshin confirmed his participation to The Associated Press on Friday.
   
   The Russian government has denied any involvement or knowledge of the June 2016 meeting. Asked Friday about Akhmetshin, Russian President Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told reporters: "We don't know anything about this person."
   
   
   Akhmetshin has been identified as a former officer in Russia's military intelligence service known as the GRU. He has denied that, saying he served in the Soviet Army from 1986 to 1988 after he was drafted but was not trained in spy tradecraft. He said his unit operated in the Baltics and was "loosely part of counterintelligence."
   
   

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      So we ask, we get answers and decide we don't like them so will make up our own.  What's next - don't bother to ask and just assume whatever we like is true?

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3. 67

   ptosisposted 6 years ago

   Making false statements in a security clearance application can be a felony,
   Jr. admission is just the tip of the iceberg..
   
   Should Jared Kushner Kushner be stripped of his security clearance?
   
   Jared Kushner lied on his SF86 national security form, not once, not twice, but 100 new additions have now been added to the the amendment. The meeting with Veselnitskaya came to light only after Kushner filed an amended SF-86 form.
   
   It was actually on a admended SF-86 security clearance application filed by Kushner that led to the revelation of the meeting between himself, Donald Jr, Paul Manafort, Natalia Veselnitskaya, Rinat Akhmetshin, Rob Goldstone and Anatoli Samochornov and an 8th unnamed person.
   
   Court documents allege that Akhmetshin masterminded the hack and dissemination of private documents belonging to a mining company in 2013.
   
   Veselnitskaya occasionally made her FSB links explicit. Veselnitskaya reportedly told the group’s leader that the FSB would come after the organization if a human rights group in Russia continued to investigate corruption of one of her clients.
   
   They weren’t minor omissions—he didn’t list a single foreign contact on the original form and we now know that he took three highly sensitive and, perhaps, even sinister meetings with Russian operatives.
   
   Sign if you agree: Suspend Jared Kushner's security clearance until the FBI has concluded their criminal investigation into Trump's ties to Russia.
   https://www.dailykos.com/campaigns/form … -clearance
   
   Lest we forget - it's not just Jared -
   
   DOJ released a redacted SF-86 of Jeff Sessions that shows a checked box stating he did not have any contact with a foreign government in the past 7 years.
   
   “Jeff Sessions is our nation’s top law enforcement officer, and it is shocking one of his first acts after being named Attorney General was to mislead his own agency about a matter of national security,”
   
   No, I'm not shocked -  par for the course for Corruption Inc.  The whole crew are appalling and detestable liars
   
   
   Meanwhile, the web of Ruskie ties grows like a cancer..
   
   Gref, Khachaturyants, Sberbank, and Sberbank Capital in a NYS Federal lawsuit alleged they were complicit in efforts by close Putin associates to fraudulently take control of a Russian granite company.
   
   In March, Sberbank brought on a new attorney to fight those charges—a lawyer who has become a household name this year.
   
   The lawyer was Marc Kasowitz. He now represents the President of the United States. Yeah that one who Threatens Stranger in Emails: ‘Watch Your Back , Bitch’
   
   The man, a retired public relations professional in the western United States who asked not to be identified, read ProPublica’s story this week on Kasowitz and sent the lawyer an email with the subject line: “Resign Now.’’
   
   Kasowitz replied with series of angry messages One read: “I’m on you now.  You are fucking with me now Let’s see who you are Watch your back , bitch.”
   
   In another email, Kasowitz wrote: “Call me.  Don’t be afraid, you piece of shit.  Stand up.  If you don’t call, you’re just afraid.” And later: “I already know where you live, I’m on you.  You might as well call me. You will see me. I promise.  Bro.”
   
   The ProPublica story report was that Kasowitz is not seeking a security clearance even though the Russia case involves a significant amount of classified material.
   
   Since the story was published, his spokesman issued a statement disputing several parts of the story: “Marc Kasowitz has not struggled with alcoholism,” Sitrick wrote. “He has not come into the office intoxicated, attorneys have not had to go across the street to the restaurant during the workday to consult Kasowitz on work matters.”
   
   
   
   
   
   
   ლ,ᔑ•ﺪ͟͠•ᔐ.ლლ,ᔑ•ﺪ͟͠•ᔐ.ლლ,ᔑ•ﺪ͟͠•ᔐ.ლლ,ᔑ•ﺪ͟͠•ᔐ.ლლ,ᔑ•ﺪ͟͠•ᔐ.ლ
   One day this will make a great movie
   
   Is Robert Mueller Barred by Attorney Ethics Rules From Serving As Special Counsel?
   
   'potential for conflict here arises from the fact that “Mueller’s former law firm, WilmerHale, represents Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner … and the president’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort, who is a subject of a federal investigation.” - http://www.redstate.com/diary/LearnedHa … l-counsel/
   
   Jamie Gorelick, is stepping back from the case, and Abbe Lowell, another attorney representing Kushner, will now be in charge of the inquiry.
   
   Gorelick “will continue to work on the matters for which we were originally retained, with regard to ethics compliance, the SF-86 process, and related issues,” she told POLITICO on Friday.
   
   Gorelick said Kushner decided on the change.
   
   "As we have stated, once Bob Mueller and three of our partners left the firm to form the Special Counsel's Office, we advised Jared to get independent legal advice on whether to continue with us as counsel," she said. "As a result of this process, Jared decided that Abbe would represent him in the Russia-related inquiries. We are currently helping Abbe’s  - http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/1 … sia-240576
   
   “If you are looking for an example of a campaign coordinating with foreign country or a foreign source, look no further than the DNC which actually coordinated opposition research with the Ukrainian embassy,” said White House principal deputy press secretary Sarah Sanders. -
   
   

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Have you not seen the latest?  There was an American citizen, name of Rinat Akhmetshin, that was at that terrible meeting of evil minds.  He has not only lobbied, but he was in the Russian army as a non-com only 30 years ago!
      
      We now have Trump JR., Jared, a Russian attorney and a third American citizen, a lobbyist working on arranging American adoptions of Russian infants, all gathered on that terrible day.  It has become obvious that evil was afoot!  Execution is too good for them - all need to be eviscerated, drawn and quartered and beheaded in the public square!  Let's hear it for the witch hunt, which has produced a rabbit pellet out of the mountain of feces comprising Washington! 
      
      McCarthy and Hoover are alive and well, "protecting" our great nation from the ravages of communism!

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4. 67

   ptosisposted 6 years ago

   https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/worl … skaya.html
   
   Mr. Akhmetshin talked openly about how he had worked with a counterintelligence unit. The meeting was arranged on the claim that a Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, would provide dirt on Hillary Clinton. In his own investigations over the years, Mr. Akhmetshin has acquired a reputation for obtaining email records, information from spyware and other data that appeared to be drawn from Russian hackers.
   
   Court papers filed in November 2015 on behalf of the Kazakhs’ company, International Mineral Resources, or I.M.R., described Mr. Akhmetshin as “a former Soviet military counterintelligence officer who moved to Washington, D.C. to become a lobbyist” and “developed a special expertise in running negative public relations campaigns.” The lawsuit was withdrawn in 2016
   
   __________________________________________________________________________
   https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/14/opin … on-hacking
   
   Rob Goldstonewas writing to Mr. Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., to claim that he had “high level and sensitive information” from a Russian government official to “incriminate” Mr. Trump’s Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton. Rob Goldstone may look like a bit player in this story, but he is an avatar of the new power brokers in the age of politics as entertainment.

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Mr. Akhmetshin is an American citizen (did you forget to mention that or intentionally leave it out?) that 30 years ago served a stint in the Russian army as part of their counter intelligence.  Is it this that makes him evil or his work to make Russian babies available for adoption in America?
      
      As far as running a negative PR campaign; he can't hold a candle to Ms. Clinton - perhaps we'd better include her, too, in the investigation?
      
      But far more important - I heard on the news tonight that our vaunted investigators are now demanding a list of anyone that entered Trump Towers that day.  McCarthy is alive and well!  (Will they want the names of every person in the state next?  Will the entire country now considered to be a communist risk?)
      
      Truly, this is getting really comical.  The desperation to find evil communists coupled with the total lack of results leaves me ROFL.  Every time another terrible threat is screamed out it turns to dust.

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5. 67

   ptosisposted 6 years ago

   Rinat Akhmetshin, purveyor of fine 'kompromat'
   
   "The conspiracy charge by its nature does a very good job of encapsulating the big picture of the entire scheme — everything that went on — and allows you to list all the different steps they took, all the different crimes they either committed or were trying to commit .... "The thing about conspiracy is you don't have to succeed. You can have a conspiracy that gets thwarted by the government or some other thing happens that makes it impossible for you to carry it out, and you can still be prosecuted for the conspiracy itself."  - Randall Eliason , former federal prosecutor who worked public corruption and government fraud cases.
   
   
   Rinat Akhmetshin said, 'We literally walked in [Trump Tower] without any security check.
   
   If what he said is true, that would be a security breach of Trump Tower. Perhaps somebody who was already inside the building had opened up a fire door to let him in.
   
   Akhmetshin said on Friday that Veselnitskaya brought a folder with information about an American hedge fund operating in Russia that she believed was funneling money to the Democratic National Committee. She spent years researching this stuff, he said. She left the folder with her hosts at Trump Tower, Akhmetshin said, adding that he had never seen its contents and doesn't know the details of what was in it. I didn't prepare the document, he said.
   
   “It’s a really serious investigation, and there are people that are going to go to jail,” - Harry Litman former DOJ atty.
   
   Orange in orange.
   
   
   
   Planning ahead for a 'Club Fed' for the entire crew & himself?
   
   

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      "The conspiracy charge by its nature does a very good job of encapsulating the big picture of the entire scheme — everything that went on — and allows you to list all the different steps they took..."
      
      On this we can agree.  Consider the steps:
      1.  Claim that Trump Sr. has connections with Russia.  When that fails...
      2.  Claim that he "colluded" to rig the election.  When that fails...
      3.  Claim that Jr. met with Russian govt. officials for the same reason.  When that fails...
      4.  Claim that a Russian intelligence agent was at the meeting.  When that fails...
      5.  Claim that Russia gave information to Jr about Clinton.  When that fails...
      6.  Claim an American entered through the fire door at TT because security "failed" to check ID of every customer.  When that fails...
      7.  Expand the search for evil communists to anyone entering the business that day.  When that fails, well, we wait with baited breath to see what the conspirators come up with ne...Wait.
      
      You're talking about the supposed communist conspiracy to rig the election aren't you?  Not about the desperate conspiracy to find (or create) dirt on Trump or anyone faintly connected to him?  Sorry about that - carry on!
      
      (Please remember that I've never knowingly spoken to a communist, never attended a communist meeting and have never even seen Putin.  Never been to Trump Tower or any Trump golf courses.  No evil communist connection here!)

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         ptosisposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Russia is no longer a communist country, please set you time machine back to 2017 please.

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            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Good - the thrust came through.  McCarthy is alive and well, whether "communism" or "Russia".

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   ptosisposted 6 years ago

   "Whether or not Donald Trump colluded with Vladimir Putin’s covert operation to subvert the 2016 campaign, the public record is already clear that Trump, knowingly or not, had aided and abetted Russia’s war on US democracy. He did so by repeatedly ignoring evidence and denying Moscow’s role in the criminal hacking of Democratic targets and the subsequent release of stolen emails

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Execution.  Immediate.
      
      It's the only possible answer when someone unknowingly and unintentionally commits what others declare a crime in order to remove that person from duties they were legally elected to perform and they can't find any other method.
      
      (Have you ever heard the tale of Chicken Little?  Or "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?  Both are pertinent here.)

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   ptosisposted 6 years ago

   “Only a hypocrite, a cynic or a fool could argue that this development can be innocuously explained,” - Dan Rather
   
   Why is Jr. Twittering joke emails about big feet and Mario Bros?
   http://www.collegehumor.com/post/705193 … mpaign=RSS

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I guess that's the point: WHAT "development"?  That Jr. had a meeting (with unknown discussion) with a citizen of Russia (although she continues to be portrayed as having "Kremlin connections", so has Trump Sr. all while those making the claims produce nothing whatsoever to support that claim.
      
      So WHAT development?  Only the one in the conspiracy theorists minds, and that can never, ever be "explained" to them.

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   ptosisposted 6 years ago

   Ike Kaveladze's identity was confirmed by his attorney, Scott Balber . 8th person ID'd in Clinton dirt meeting
   
   The office accused Kaveladze of setting up more than 2,000 shell companies in Delaware on behalf of Russians, and then opening bank accounts for them. He then allegedly funneled more than $1.4 billion in Russian and eastern European money through the United States.

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