When is the right time to talk about gun control - NOT banning guns, but sensibl

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   ChristinSposted 12 years ago

   When is the right time to talk about gun control - NOT banning guns, but sensible controls?
   
   Why is it whenever the subject of gun control is brought up people get so hostile and angry about protecting guns at all costs? Do you need an assault weapon to hunt or protect your family?   Isn't it time we realized this control is not a ban?  How many more mass shootings have to occur before we have the difficult conversations about proper care and treatment of the mentally ill and YES, common sense gun controls.  We have tougher restrictions for getting drivers licenses in most states & the idea of ill trained people with concealed carry permits is frightening!

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   Jack Burtonposted 12 years ago

   8 million people with CCW permits over decades in dozens of states with no problems and Chris finds this frightening. Says more about Chris than CCW holders.   And one can mouse to my hubs and find out more in five minutes about so-called assault weapons than some people have learned in a lifetime. Yes, you can hunt very effectively with one and they are very good rifles for many types of game. But I like it that Chris seems to think that not letting people have one is somehow not a "ban." This is what passes as "common sense."  BTW... driver's licenses are not mentioned in the Constitution with the phrase "shall not be infringed".

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's Christin - and the ammendment talks about a militia - a citizen militia - which equates to properly trained.  I'm sorry but I don't trust that everyone who has a gun permit is properly trained in dealing with crisis situations.  Prove me wrong!

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Doesn't work that way Christin... if you want to take away people's rights  the burden of proof is on you to show that there is some special reason to. And the word regulated doesn't mean "government controlled". Actually the g-word is not in the 2nd

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think all of the gun accidents and mass shootings in this country meets that burden of proof.  What is so wrong with regulation to prove you know how to properly own and handle weapons? We have to prove we can drive cars safely for crying out loud.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      80,000,000 gunowners in America. Yesterday 79,999,000 did no harm to anyone. And you think it is "reasonable" to burden those law abiding citizens who do no harm with need to "prove" something  because of the actions of the .001 percent who do?

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes I do, most car owners yesterday didn't have accidents. They still have to be licensed and prove their ability to drive safely.  Guns are far too dangerous to not be regulated properly.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Find me cars in the Constitution and then we'll discuss it further. BTW, cars don't have to be registered if kept on your own property. People don't need a license to drive on their own property. This is known as "basic research about a subject"

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      how many people are you killing with your car on your own property? to have it in public you indeed have to be licensed and prove your ability. The constitution doesn't say you have the right to endanger others

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      And that is exactly the way virtually all CCW laws work. The person has to be licensed by the state to carry the gun in public. But you're not posting about that... you want EVERYONE to be registered and licensed.  Even the 78,999,000 who do no harm.

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      and how much training do they have to get before being issued the ccw permit? I'm quite positive it's possible to get a ccw permit without proper training which puts everyone around that person in potential danger should they overreact

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       Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Quite sure does not equal reality. Some people are "quite sure" the world is flat. Again, you are able to offer no proof that there is danger from the 8,000,000 ccw holders regardless of the training they've had. You only "feel" about it. No reason.

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   ChristinSposted 12 years ago

   I should also say I've grown up around guns and gun lovers - I am not for taking guns away but it's time to exercise some common sense.  Those who buy into the fear mongering that everyone packing somehow prevents violence are not looking at accurate facts - mass shootings have increased since the passage of so many conceal carry laws.  If, in fact, concealed weapons reduced the number of mass murders this wouldn't be the case. 
   
   Also, no one wants to talk about how to keep guns out of the hands of those not mentally equipped to own them.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Surely u realize that virtually all the mass shootings, just like the one today, were done in "gun free zones" where those with CCWs wouldn't take their guns. Don't u think this might make a difference in how effective CCW can be in these situations?

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I also realize most citizens don't have the hours of training it takes to learn to shoot in crisis situations.  Tell me one time a cc permit holder stopped a mass shooting Jack.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      U know full well that virtually all mass shootings have taken place where those with CCWs are banned. yet u repeat yourself.  Why?http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/14/do-civilians-armed-with-guns-ever-capture-kill-or-otherwise-stop-mass-shooters/

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      and you know full well an improperly trained citizen with a gun is a further danger yet you repeat yourself - why?

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      8,000,000 ccw holders in dozens of states across decades and christin can't quite bring any evidence that they are a "danger" to anyone, let alone themselves. She should have hundreds of thousands of examples. Or tens of thousands. Or thousands.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      8,000,000 million ccw holders across decades in dozens of states and christin can't find the evidence to back up her claim about them being "dangerous". But it makes her feel good to post it and that is all that counts.

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It's not about my "Feelings" it's about common sense methods to help the mentally ill and yes, to reasonably control who has access to guns and to ensure they have the proper training to not endanger others. Your arguments are all "feelings" based.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Chyristin apparently doesn't know that the adjudicated mentally ill are not legally allowed to have firearms. She wants to make it "double illegal." I gave the numbers... she gives bupkis. Which of us depends upon "feelings."

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      There should be accountability for those who legally own and allow their guns into the hands of the mentally unstable.  Also, the aurora shooter purchased guns/ammo. current laws need to be better enforced - any sane person can see that.

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       junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Not all gun sales require background checks. Not all background checks include mental health checks. Most mental health checks are not affirmative.

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       Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       It is illegal to privately sell a gun to someone who is unable to have one because of mental health issues. We can make it doubly illegal to stop people from doing this. And make it doubly illegal for mentally ill people to purchase or steal a gun.

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       junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Wrong as usual Jack. It's illegal to get CAUGHT selling a gun to someone with a DOCUMENTED mental illness. Doesn't do anything if no one is watching, or checking, or if someone is undiagnosed. Plus not all states submit their records to NICS.

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       Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       That's like saying that it is only illegal to rob a bank if u get caught. You'll go far with that argument.  And my phrase "unable to have" means "unable to have."  If Junk doesn't like something then it is "wrong". Facts don't matter to him

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       junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       It isn't illegal if you never know. You might not have to check (some private sales) or check but have incomplete databases. Virginia Tech shooter shouldn't have been sold a weapon. No one got in trouble for that.

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       Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       BATF states that u can't sell a gun to a person u know can't own one or  to buy a gun if u know u cannot have one. If EITHER one knows, it's an illegal sale. The seller is off the hook criminally  if he doesn't know but  can face a personal lawsuit

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   junksellerposted 12 years ago

   "High profits, being necessary to the shareholders of arms manufacturers, the right of the people to be shot by maniacs, shall not be infringed."
   -2nd Amendment of the Constitution
   
   At least a decade ago. We regulate lots of things because they are dangerous. Guns should be no different. Cars require training, licensing, testing, and registration, and a person can be prohibited from their use based upon their activities (a DUI for example). Guns should be the same way. ALL sales should be registered, everyone should be licensed, trained, and tested and should undergo a mental test and a background check. All of these things should be renewable every so often. Gun owners should also be held responsible for letting guns out into the wild if the are used in the commission of a crime. Certain weapons and accessories with greater capabilities or fewer legitimate uses can have greater restrictions placed on them. That all seems pretty reasonable to me. It doesn't ban guns. It holds people accountable. That's where my vote goes.
   :

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      After a shooting spree junk always wants to put restrictions on the 80 million gun owners who didn't  do it. Not a single thing he wants would have stopped today. But that is what passes as "common sense" in todays world. Feelings, baby, feelings.

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I completely agree with this.  There is absolutely no reason reasonable people should be opposed to proving their ability to responsibly own and use a weapon.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with Cristian... There is absolutely no reason reasonable people should be opposed to proving their ability to the government to responsibly, rationally and logically compose a letter to the editor before they send it off.

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Jack, that's stupid.  Weapons are designed to kill and they are dangerous.  Writing a letter to an editor is not dangerous and does not kill people.  Be rational - seriously.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Freedom is freedom, christin. It's not parceled out by which ones you like or don't like.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Freedom is freedom. It's not parceled out piecemeal based upon the ones you like and don't like.

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      the populace should also have the "freedom" to live peacefully without worry that mentally ill, ill prepared, and untrained people are running around with guns Jack.  Freedom isn't just for you either. No one is trying to take your guns away.

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      junksellerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm free to vote for representatives who will enact gun control legislation. And I will. How do you like that freedom Jack?

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      that "freedom" is non existent christin. You're depending upon other people to do your bidding so that you "feel safe". True freedom does not require actions or non-actions from others. What u want is servitude to your desires. Desires (not rights

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       ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       You are without reason Jack, your arguments make no sense.  When a system is broken it is the duty of all of us to work to fix what's broken. You can't or won't see that truth so I'm done discussing it with you.

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       Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       less than .001 percent of gunowners hurt people with their guns. This is christinas idea of  "broke". And this is the "common sense" that she thinks she is able to apply to the issue of protecting others from those who seek to do harm to innocents.

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   Justsilvieposted 12 years ago

   We have been talking about guns for years, however…
   
   The gun lobby is too powerful. It is about the money made in sales of them more than the 2nd Amendment rights.  Most things are about money.
   
   Also you have to deal with the paranoid screaming loudly who think we will be invaded by a foreign power or who fear our government. I guess most don’t realize we are more afraid of them then the other two scenarios.
   
   Hollywood is also strong influence and guns are romanticized, by many because of it. And owning big guns makes you bigger, stronger and seems to increase the size of your genitalia. If someone thinks I am kidding do some searches on Youtube and see how idiotic grown people can act when they have a gun in their hand, especially a big one.
   
   So all these people will scream loudly if you even say the word control and can come up with endless stats that if we arm the whole country we can be safe!  Yehhaaa The wild wild west all over again!
   
   And politicians can’t get together on when or what to eat for lunch so getting some solutions from them is a joke.
   
   This country is so divided on what gives our life quality we may never find a solution nor even start a real dialogue towards one, no matter how many of our children, family and friends we have to bury.

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I share your sentiments and it's very unfortunate that those of us who are rational can't seem to ever dominate a conversation over the screaming lunatic fringe.  Sad.

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      Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What is really sad is the rational outnumber the fringe, but they scream louder!

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Gallup reports A record-low 26% of Americans favor a legal ban on the possession of handguns, while 70% are against it. It is clear who is extreme and who is the majority.  Screaming lunatic fringe = someone who bests me in a argument.

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Jack no one here said a BAN - reasonable CONTROLS are NOT a BAN.  Why can people not comprehend this?

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      Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This why you can't have a discussion on the subject, even those who just want a sensible discussion get shouted down by the people who seem to think control mean a total ban or at least tries to convince the ignorant of it.

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I hear you Sivie, but this mentality is precisely the reason we NEED to have these conversations and we need to stand up to the bullies who think their gun freedoms trump our right to safety.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Okay, christin... then you are fully in favor of people owning AKs and ARs? And 100 round magazines. And owning as many guns as they like. Even ginormous .50 caliber rifles. Even tiny small guns that are easily hidden.  I am happy to hear that.

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      ChristinSposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      no reasonable person needs to have those kinds of weapons.  You can have standard weapons as people always have there is no need for the average citizen to need military grade weapons.  Get real.

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      Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      hmmm.... christin first said "no one here said a BAN - reasonable CONTROLS are NOT a BAN" and THEN she says she wants to determine that people can only have certain firearms that she approves of. Sure sounds like she wants to "ban" a bunch to me.

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       Justsilvieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Again that is why there are no solutions, because your words already start the discussion with a STOP! You want it all! No compromise no ears for another solution!

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       Jack Burtonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Okay, just... then you are fully in favor of people owning AKs and ARs? And 100 round magazines. And owning as many guns as they like. Even ginormous .50 caliber rifles. Even tiny small guns that are easily hidden. Or do you say "stop"?

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