Here is one answer to the oil crisis

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   SparklingJewelposted 15 years ago

   check out the video I posted under "the energy non-crisis" it goes into the connection with the US administration and the oil companies around the world and the economy. the IMF and the World Bank are the powers that be...US government is just a pawn of big money.
   
   this man claims to have sat at the table with the "powers that be" of the world

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      Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yep, just like all the other conspiracy buff, wannabe elites out there.

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   thranaxposted 15 years ago

   There is no oil crisis.

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   knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

   Been seeing this argument for years, peak oil, out of oil, plenty of oil. Doesn't seem to be a definitive answer. But two things are factors. China and India with a billion people each are gobbling more oil from the world market tightning supply. And Iraq with the so called 2nd or third largest reserves has been
   stifled from world markets by the US occupation. And of course
   Iran, the reason for all the world's problems, has also huge reserves, and the US congress is apparently doing everything possible to take that off the market with a proposed Iranian boycott.

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      thranaxposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      When it comes to oil, there is no crises in the US. We own it, we have the rights to the fields, and if we don't have the rights to them we will do it the way we did it with anything else that stopped us, we will take it forcefully. There is no reason why we should be paying $4+ a gallon of gas. Its bs. It might be a crises everywhere else, but not here.

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   SparklingJewelposted 15 years ago

   I am not saying there is an oil crisis. but the answer is the story of what has been happening in full detail. and the continuing manipulation of the system
   you guys are missing the point. watch the video and hear what this guy (a simple baptist minister) has to say. he spells out a very convincing story of the plan and who is behind it. he got it into a small book with the help of one of the big guys of oil that was ousted for telling him the important facts of the plan.
   
   he and his family have lived through death threats and he has been trying to inform people for years that big oil and the banks have  been thwarting energy innovation and that all of congress knows what is really going on, but few have spoken up about it because of the money involved.
   
   the more American citizens that know, the  greater justice that can be brought forth
   
   do your own research with the information he spells out and see what you come up with
   
   I am not a heavy duty researcher or conspiracy buff...you never know... he may have important information that could help get things changed

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   knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

   Sorry but couldn't get your link to work or any other utube link from Google's search page on him. Don't quite get you. One minute you seem like a right winger, and the next a tin-foil-hat conspiracy nut. Personally I lean more toward the latter as myself that is.

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      SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      just because those are the only realms you choose to set your self ( or anyone else) within, is not my problem.
      
      Listen to yourself. limiting your own ability to look beyond possibility constricted by others' perspective.
      
      People would do better by themselves to not be so narrow and constrictive when it comes to information and especially about oneself and others. There is truth in everything. It just has to be sorted out from the chaff of confusion
      
      try typing in directly from the address I put in the other thread.
      
      i am not right-wing or left-wing completely, i have particular issues that I am more one than another, but a person mustn't put themself in boxes just to be comfortable  and go along with the mass consciousness

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   knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

   thranax 'There is no oil crisis.' You may be right. Think there is a lot of demand which would create a floor price. But there is plenty of evidence that specultion is the problem. Also that if true, the problem could be fixed in about ten minutes, by congress closing commodity trading loop holes, or the fed by raising interest rates. Chances are........

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      TheCapnposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I think refining capacity is a problem as well. We haven't increased refining capacity in quite some time; you can have all the oil in the world, it won't do much good if it's not in a usable form. Either way you can tell there's price manipulation in one form or another.
      
      SparklingJewel: Can't seem to get that video to work, do you have to type in manually?

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         pgrundyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         There is an oil crisis. Our own government determined this in a Department of Energy report from 2005 commonly called "The Hirsch Report." Google it. What's happening right now perfectly fits Loss Mitigation Scenario Three in the report. That's why you see the US government doing basically nothing at this point. They know it's already too late to mitigate the effects.

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            SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            yea, the oil crisis is that the big oil heads and world banks are keeping things from being corrected for whatever reasons to supply oil to the world...there is plenty of oil in the world, it just needs to be retreived and  processed.
            
            Frankly I would like to see less of it being used for things that are polluting the planet, like plastics...and of course I'd like to see energy efficient cars that use other forms of energy.

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               TheCapnposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I'd like to see an alternative fuel that works well and doesn't pollute during the manufacturing process. It seems  that every time I read something about an alternative fuel, I read about the emissions involved during production and how the lack of emissions during use doesn't outweigh it. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not pro oil and I definitely don't support offshore drilling or any of that nonsense, our environment has had enough. I just wish we could find something clean that gave us as much energy as a good ole fashioned gasoline combustion and was cleaner in production and use too.

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         SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         yes, that worked best for me

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   knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

   This is another address for the Lindsey Williams video.
   http://video.google.com/
   videoplaydocid=3340274697167011147&hl=en
   (Naw - I can't get it to work - must be a conspiracy)
   Try type in 'lindsey williams' into Google. Should give a working video the second slot on the page.
   This guy may sound a little crazy to a lot of people, a master of suspense. But from all my many years of research, pretty much everything he says is true. 'Ye though I walk through the valley of the shadow ...'

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   Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years ago

   So would I SJ, so would I.
   
   
   

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   Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

   I think everyone is approaching this from the wrong angle.
   
   We should be looking at ways of creating a new economic model that does not rely on massive over-consumption.
   
   Just wait until China and India start consuming resources at the rate the US and the UK do.
   
   Then you will see an oil crisis.

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    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    'new economic model that does not rely on massive over-consumption'. That's socialism - not allowed in America.

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       Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Don't think it is socialism - and don't think socialism is a solution either - based on USSR and other "socialist camp" countries experience

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    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    No, I wasn't meaning socialism. I was talking about the fact that most of the stuff we buy is designed, built and marketed to go out of date very quickly. And we therefore over-consume.
    
    Should I really buy a new MP3 player because this years model is 12% thinner and the mandatory software update doesn't support the old model?
    
    Do you really need a new car  because the old one doesn't meet the new emission regs when making the new car in the first place creates more pollution that the car will do in its lifetime?
    
    Do you really need a new pair of shoes because the fashion this year is 3 inche heels and yours have 3.5 inch heels?
    
    Does it make sense to buy tomatoes that have been flown half way 'round the world and individually packaged in boxes of 8?
    
    Does it make sense to sell pre-washed potatoes in a see through bag? The grocery stores sell potatoes that have been washed in warm water and exposed to large amounts of light. Guess what - try buying unwashed potatoes and keeping them in the dark - see how long they last before going off compared to the shit you buy in Krogers lol
    
    All this is designed to make us over consume and perhaps more importantly - throw things away needlessly. And the current economic model will fall apart if we tried changing it. Stop spending by 75% and see what happens to the economy. Therefore we need a new model.

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       Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Very good point Mark.
       
       We live an existance based around Greed, bingo.  You hit the nail right on the head.  How do you economically provide for this?  Overconsumption, as you adequately pointed out.  How does one solve this?  Hard question to answer when people are wired to want more, better, faster, nower.

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          Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          The first thing we need to do is to lose the "God bless America, Saddam Hussein was evil and we are freeing the world, here is a McDonald's franchise, the Chinese are polluting the planet  attitude."
          
          Easier said than done with Fox news spoon feeding the ignorant masses appropriate "news" all the time.
          
          See any relationships between religion, mass media and corporate marketing?
          
          Me, I have made a few choices.
          
          I do not subscribe to organised religions
          I do not watch the "news"
          I do not buy new stuff unless I absolutely need it
          I do not fly
          I do not buy out-of-season vegetables and fruit
          I do not drive unless I must
          I leave packaging I do not need at the grocery store checkout (annoys the life out of them and I am banned from at  least 2 chains)
          I do not buy newspapers
          I do not spend money with "global" companies except when that is my only option - which is sometimes the case, I must admit
          
          Which means I lose out sometimes. But.........

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             RFoxposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I subscribe to Buddhist philosophy, which puts emphasis on moderation and avoiding overconsumption.
             I don't watch the "news" either, over here it is the most ridiculous farce of a news broadcast.
             I do not buy new stuff unless I need it.
             I do fly: I am a travel junkie and it's also part of my work. So I have to compensate for this in other ways in my life. I can't wait for them to invent a more fuel efficient airplane!
             I do not buy out-of-season vegetables or fruit.
             I don't own a car. I use public transport or walk. If I do buy a car in the future it will be as energy efficient as possible and I will only use it when I have to.
             I do leave packaging when I can, I recycle where I can and I shop mostly at a market that voluntarily did away with plastic bags and over-packaging. I have cloth grocery bags and the grocery company is an ethical company that thinks about the environment, that provides ethically produced food, that gives to charities and that provides recycling right in the store.
             It does cost more for groceries but I think it's worth it. They also make a lot of food in store and use local bakeries for their bread, cheeses etc.
             I read my news online and listen to podcasts.
             I always try to buy local as much as I can.
             
             

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                Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Ownage.
                
                Can I marry you?
                j/k
                
                
                
                /me high fives RFox!
                
                

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    SparklingJewelposted 15 years ago

    Well, I'm on a role today about this kind of stuff. Mark you are so right, that is basically the core of the problem. But in order to stop spending, many things would need to change. We would have to re-organize to get more local produce grown, which would not only improve price but our health as well.
    When I found out my yogart and meat were produced here in the states then sent to China for packaging I was floored! Who needs that  meat or yogart!   think of the loss of nutrients and possible bacteria it all picks up in its travels, YUCK!

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    RFoxposted 15 years ago

    Over consumption is most certainly the biggest issue we face. Everything trickles down from that. Nothing is ever enough for people.
    More, more, more. Bigger, bigger, bigger.
    
    Growing up in Australia I was not indoctrinated into the capitalist, consumerist view of the world.
    
    I don't know what it's like for kids there now but I was always taught that lifestyle and what you do with your free time was more important than what you own.
    
    In other words, going to the beach, traveling, playing backyard cricket with the family, being outside, having fun was given a much greater emphasis than TV size, what kind of car you drive, how big your house was, what brand name clothes you wear etc.
    
    The emphasis was on 'working to live' not 'living to work' so you can buy something you can't afford.
    
    When I first came to North America I was shocked. Yes, I had watched American TV but I couldn't believe the materialistic life that people embrace here. Huge trucks, huge houses (that cost insane amounts of money to heat!), large restaurant portions that are wasteful, no real recycling programs, people working 70 hours a week because of all the loans they take to own the latest toys on the market. It's really ridiculous.
    
    Buy, buy, buy...spend, spend, spend....consume, consume, consume. This is why there is an energy crisis. This is why a lot of the problems we encounter over here exist.
    
    And Mark is right...the economy is set-up for overconsumption. If it stops then recessions hit, the stock market plummets, interest rates go up. It's a disaster!
    
    But that's why Capitalism is not this great thing that everyone wants to think it is. Corporations and greed run rampant under this model and it affects all of us.
    
    I just watched a great documentary last night called "Why we fight". Definitely touches upon these ideas. I would highly recommend anyone to watch it.
    
    That's my 2 cents.

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       Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Come to think of it, the Greed that is becoming apparent to me from these statements in this topic commenting on our form of capitalism reminds me of "The Lorax" by Dr. Seuss (lol?).  You guys ever watch The Lorax?

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    TheCapnposted 15 years ago

    "But that's why Capitalism is not this great thing that everyone wants to think it is. Corporations and greed run rampant under this model and it affects all of us. "
    
    I think there's a difference between Capitalism and Corporatism.

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    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    I agree. I have no problem with capitalism per se, but currently the only way it is working is by persuading people to over consume and be extremely wasteful.
    
    I am really careful with the packaged goods I buy, but still am appalled at the amount of packaging I throw away every week.

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       thranaxposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Well extra packaging helps the box company etc make money to be reintroduced to the system. Without the inefficiency, not enough money would be put back into the system.

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          Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Precisely - That is why we need a new model. This one is very wasteful and relies on over consumption.

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             thranaxposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I am not sure people will be willing to accept the change. I mean, this will also put a lot of packaging businesses out of business-destroying jobs to make the economy better? Has to be a pretty dam good plan to pull this off.

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                Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                lol
                
                My point exactly - The current economic model runs on this. un-necessary packaging and needless waste.
                
                I would rather pay five times the price, use 20% of what I use now and have no waste - wouldn't you?

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                   thranaxposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   I wouldn't want to pay 5 times the price lol , But I agree saving on what we use will help the planet-but when did making money and saving the planet matter? If a corporation makes money by doing so they normally won't stop. How will they make as much money without putting something small at a very high price that most will not buy lol? Think about it...when you go to a fancy restraint you get a small thing in the middle of the plate that looks great, but is 3 bites and $99.95. People would rather buy something that gives them more to eat, even if the package is wasteful for a cheaper price. By cutting down on the packaging people think you cut down on the product. Apparently people scale the packaging with the contents inside.
                   
                   Also buy cutting down on packaging it increases the chances of something to break. Think about a bag of chips..40% Chips 60% Air. They would all crush with  90% Chips 10% Air. The same goes for boxed crackers. The best innovation in packaging, which doesn't cut it down to the levels they can is the Pringles Potato crisps containers. Those cylinders don't waste as much packaging for there product-but there more expensive for the amount you get. Thats why pringles will NEVER outsell other chips that come in bags of 40% chips and 60% air.

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    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    I do not subscribe to organised religions = check
    
    I do not watch the "news" = I keep track of the propaganda.
    
    I do not buy new stuff unless I absolutely need it = me neither.
    They call me a cheap date.
    
    I do not fly = Wonder if I can and not on 'No Fly'.
    
    I do not buy out-of-season vegetables and fruit. = Hate fruit and
    a minimum of veges.
    
    I do not drive unless I must = Have to drive the spaces what they are here, but the minimum. Just an old hippie.
    
    I leave packaging I do not need at the grocery store checkout (annoys the life out of them and I am banned from at  least 2 chains) = Everything is recycled here.
    
    I do not buy newspapers = Like my paper even though it is fairly right wing in the most liberal county in America. The paper gets
    smaller and smaller -$$ and they don't seem to be able to figure it out.
    
    I do not spend money with "global" companies except when that is my only option - which is sometimes the case, I must admit = My markets are privately owned and good companies.
    
    I identify myself by what I know, and not by what I own, which isn't much really.

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    TheCapnposted 15 years ago

    I don't want to say that we're doomed but convincing an entire nation to end it's policy of overconsumption is a tough sell. We're probably the only species on the planet that has any grasp of the concept of conservation but that's only because some of us are smart enough to see that overconsumption will eventually wipe out all of our resources. I think it's more than just simply telling everyone to start conserving, it's going to take flipping some sort of switch off in evolution that has been telling us to "consume, consume, consume" for the duration of the existence of our species.

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    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    I appreciate that. But it is only recently that we had the facility to over consume. As a species, in evolutionary terms, we were always limited by the availability of resources. No longer.
    
    Now - we can consume resources from all over the planet. How many things to you own that say "Made in China." ?
    
    We need to change our habits and accept that just because we can, doesn't mean we should.
    
    Tough sell? Oh yes lol

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