Coronavirus Update: Everything is Under Control
Don't worry, President Trump just announced that the Coronavirus is under control.
Here's his exact quote:
"It's a very contagious virus. It's incredible. But it's something we have tremendous control of"
So, no problems. Yay!And just like that all my worries are gone. Lol.
I take his words as the exact opposite of reality, as anyone with any sense should. Remember the "stable genius" claim?
You have to wonder what's wrong with him. He's deranged. He's literally wired to never admit anything is wrong with anything remotely connected to him. Everything is always great. He and his people are always doing a great job.
Politics is a weird world, but anybody I've ever known who was worth a damn was always highly self-critical. Any boss I've ever known who was worth a damn always took responsibility for the people who worked for them. Trump is the complete opposite of that. How can anyone respect it?I think some are so embedded in his presidency they can't admit to being wrong about him...no matter what he says or does.
It's like a well known televangelist getting caught with a hairy hooker and confessing his sins before his millions of viewers and asking for forgiveness.......and they fell for it.Randy, when you elect anti-science morons and anti-government zealots and encourage that people question scientific inquiry you end up with citizens who don't know anything and don't believe experts.
Heck, why even believe this thing exists. Those scientists are all liars. And President Trump is contradicting those experts as we speak because he still thinks he knows better.
We all knew Trump was dangerous and now we're really finding out just how much.No, we didn't all know how dangerous he would be as there are plenty of his enablers still denying it and looking the other way.
Hey! He can't even get his tongue under control, so WTH?
There really isn't much that can be done about the conoronavirus, other than taking the usual, well-understood precautions like washing your hands, not touching your face, avoiding crowds, and so forth. (Some people tell me that they have avoided getting the flu for years just by avoiding children.)
The flu goes around every year and most people get it. It runs its course because eventually most people are immune because they've already had it. And when spring rolls around, UV light from stronger sunshine tends to kill it off.
The actual government strategy at this point is to slow contagion enough that hospitals are not overwhelmed. There is no expectation of actually stopping the contagion--which is simply not possible. I am not sure I see any sense in attempting to slow the contagion on the theory that this will ensure there are enough hospital beds, since there is no effective treatment. If you were admitted to the hospital, they would monitor your vital signs and, in extreme cases, put you on a ventilator--in which cases your survival rate would be improved very little, if at all.
One promising treatment which is apparently not being used in the US, but was successful in South Korea, is an anti-malarial called chloroquine. (Don't expect it to be prescribed or administered, should you get coronavirus.) It has also occurred to me that installing UV lights in public places and in your home would be an excellent approach. UV lights are used for disinfecting scientific labs and for decontaminating surgical equipment. Most likely, there are not enough of them available at the present time.
Bottom line: No government actions will save you, or even help much, except in cases where they offer good advice about hygiene and social distancing.
The government measures that have been put into place are causing massive job losses and business failures and will end up cratering the economy--and will accomplish nothing, long term."The government measures that have been put into place are causing massive job losses and business failures and will end up cratering the economy--and will accomplish nothing, long term."
I didn't realize you were an expert on viruses, Vile. So you feel it should be treated as an ordinary strain of flu with everyone going to wok as usual? I do believe the experts would disagree with you. Where do you get your info on the coronavirus?Randy, I'm sure you've noticed that the general consensus among a number of conservatives in this forum is that the real threat is government overreach and that we just need to let the virus run its course and let the chips fall where they may. If that means 2 million deaths, then that's just how it is. If it means our health care system is ransacked and nobody can get health care for a few months, then so be it. The police state is a far bigger threat than the virus.
What do we expect from those who thought electing a con man was a good idea, Crank? We've discovered just how difficult it is to unbrainwash his supporters. Some will eventually see the light, but others will remain in the dark no matter how bad it gets.
Some would argue that all politicians are con men. The bigger argument, for me, is electing those who consistently undermine science. Then, when an emergency arises that requires scientific expertise, their supporters don't trust the scientists because those elected officials have spent their time telling them that scientists are quacks.
Randy, my comments about the coronavirus are the conclusions one must inevitably reach, if the the information presented by the experts is true. Plus of course the relevant information (to the extent it is known) is widely available, in case you are interested.
One bit of information asserted by experts is that this virus may be more highly contagious than usual. While all we really have are estimates, the R0 ( reproduction number, or R-naught) for coronavirus is estimated to be 1.4-4.8, while the H1N1 of 2009 was estimated to be 1.46-1.48. This table gives the R0 of several diseases, for comparison.
Disease Reproduction number R0
Ebola, 2014 1.51 to 2.53
H1N1 Influenza, 2009 1.46 to 1.48
Seasonal Influenza 2 to 3
Measles 12 to 18
MERS around 1
Polio 5 to 7
SARS <1 to 2.75
Smallpox 5 to 7
Wuhan Coronavirus 2019-nCoV 1.4 to 4.08
Another bit of information attested to by experts is that the coronavirus has a longer latency period than the normal seasonal flu. That is, one may be infected with coronavirus for 14 days or more before developing symptoms.
If this information is correct, the coronavirus is substantially more difficult to stop or eradicate than the seasonal flu.
Nor do I know of any instance in which the seasonal flu has been stopped or eradicated before running its course. Presumably, this is true despite the CDC's and the health-care community's best efforts. We may thus infer that this is because it just isn't possible.
There appear to be two factors that halt the seasonal flu. The main one is that after a certain percentage of people have had it and are thus immune, the R0 drops to so low a figure that the disease can no longer propagate itself. (I think the estimated figure on this "herd immunity" is 65%-75%.)
It therefore follows that the coronavirus will burn itself out after around 65%-75% of the US population has had it and has become immune--and not before.
Another possibility is that this, like other seasonal flu illnesses, will disappear with the advent of spring and summer, which bring the virus-killing effects of UV light as sunlight becomes stronger. There have been some questions about whether coronavirus contagion is diminished during the warmer seasons. Some diseases do flourish through warmer seasons, but when they do it seems to be because it has other vectors of infection besides the air or contaminated surfaces. Examples of this would be fecal-oral routes (as with polio) or insect vectors (as with yellow fever or malaria) or sexually transmitted diseases (like AIDS)
To tell you the truth, my assumption has been that the coronavirus will largely disappear with warm summer weather--and then come roaring back in the fall and into next winter.
We have no effective treatment methods. The disease will disappear when we reach 65%-70% immunity (due to having the disease) within the population. Attempting to slow the infection rate (which I believe is the avowed strategy of the CDC) will only prolong the problem--unless the time is used to develop some effective treatment method.
Slowing the contagion to ensure that there are sufficient hospital beds (and maybe ventilators) is not a great strategy either. In order to treat infectious diseases in hospitals, negative-pressure hospital rooms (such as the type of facilities formerly used for TB patients) are needed. Today, such facilities are virtually non-existent. Without negative-pressure hospital rooms, admitting a coronavirus patient to the hospital pretty well ensures that everyone else in the hospital will be exposed, including the health-care personnel. So you will have a situation in which all those hospital patients whose health is already severely compromised will also become infected.
The best strategy, if you are in a high-risk group due to age or to a compromised immune system, is to self-quarantine until the virus has burned itself out due to high levels of immunity among the general population.
The strategy of closing businesses is a bad idea that can only lead to large numbers of unemployed, who will be unable to pay their rent and other bills and buy groceries (assuming groceries remain available), as well as widespread business closures and bankruptcies.Very interesting and compelling argument. What do you think is keeping current scientific minds from making a similar argument? Too politically dangerous? Saying you can't do anything about it and it just needs to run its course wouldn't get anyone re-elected.
Isn't the current effort directed to try to keep the healthcare system from getting overwhelmed, so that at least those who get it can be treated if we flatten the curve of infection?
I must ask... What do you feel the president could have done differently, other than his way he is communicating at his press conferences. It is very obvious he is not giving some American's words they would like to hear? I can see your point in regards to his lack of communication skills.
I have found his task force very efficient in most cases doing the very best they can. I have appreciated the president closing our boarders to China with good speed, as well with all the precautions that were quickly put in place. In fact, I believe he set precedence.
I am an RN and worked in a large hospital during the H1N1 crisis. I can tell you we worked under these very same conditions that are being seen today with this virus. I can also tell you the yearly flu season always caused problems in regards to supplied and staffing. I never witnessed quarantines, lockdowns or actually nothing of what we are seeing with this virus. NOTHING... I totally appreciate that we have a president making every attempt to help stop the spread and decrease death due to this virus.
Does it make you feel better to ignore the good that our president is doing and consent are on his lack of communication skills?
H1N1 was horrible, and very little was done. Oh, we were provided some pretty words from the president that st in the WH at that time. But, have a look at the death toll... You seem to appreciate sarcasm, and my last statement was meant to be sarcastic. But, true.
I can honestly say, I never played the blame game while H1N1 ravished the world. Because you know what, it was a virus that came about quickly. I did not make a health problem political. I find your sarcasm uncalled for in the face of this kind of crisis. But, I expected no less. To quote GA from one of his recent posts -- "I am glad I am not you... "
Why not reevaluate what is being done to fight this virus, and get behind the people that are working so hard in a dire situation. That includes the president.
If you want to look at an aspect of this problem that you can vent your sarcasm towards, how about all the pork Nancy tried to add to the bill that was meant to help with the virus put food on the table or pay their rent. Nancy chose to concentrate on the arts, energy, public broadcasting, and many more ridiculous things. Now that subject is one anyone could vent their sarcasm at. She actually has held up help to those that need it due to her lofty all kind of crazy BS. So no problem, YAY!
How about your gal --- YAY!Is this a serious question or a joke question? What could he do differently? I don't know. How about stop talking, lying, spewing misinformation that leads directly to people doing things that will get them killed?
You know what's sad? His supporters are the only ones who listen to him anyway, so guess who is going to pay the price for his lying and misinformation? You and those who listen to him and believe him.
Trump is literally standing on Fifth avenue blowing holes in the people who support him and you all are just taking it.
Largely for my own benefit apparently, I've been tracking these statements here:
https://hubpages.com/politics/forum/347 … oronavirusConcentrate on deeds. In the end, that's what will be what helps in fighting a virus. "Listen to him" I am considering deeds, outcome. I could care less about statements you have twisted into your own context.
So very dramatic... I see you did not respond to what Nancy is doing to help with this crisis. her deeds speak very loudly, do they not? LOL
Your comment is fluffy, no substance just a lot of indignant nonsense.
Did I ask --- How about your gal? Do you choose to ignore this nut job? I assume by your attitude and past comments you support the Democratic party. Are you proud of Nancy for holding up funds with all her "crazy" when some need funds to feed their families or pay rent?
Can you defend her deeds? I can defend Trump's actions, his deeds. His words would mean little to me. As Obama's did during the H1N1 crisis. They were pretty, but as I said check out that death toll. Facts are just facts. Words are pretty much not so important if you lost a loved one.
It's clear we look at what is important very differently and respond to what is important very differently. I look at facts, deeds. In my opinion, you are dramatic, look at the smallest elements of a problem, and are willing to look past deeds and facts to support your agenda.I notice you failed to mention what McConnell wanted in his bill, Shar. He wanted the big corporations to be able to use the stimulus money to buy back stocks and give large bonuses to their CEOs like they did with the stupid tax break.
How about your guy? Yay!Proof, please, of yet another baseless claim? Show us that McConnel wanted corporations to get money to buy back stocks with. Or give bonuses to CEO's. Please.
The GOP seemed to be on board with blocking buybacks. Not sure where Randy got his information. I have been looking around and all I could find is the Dems wanted the language that pertained to buybacks clarified and made stronger. I could find nothing that they wanted to include stock buybacks in the bill.
We were discussing what the President is doing in regards to the virus crisis. Trump has stated he will not be on broad with big business being allowed stock buybacks in the new bill. He is the final word, and he can veto a bill that would allow buybacks. I say he will keep his word. In regards to the GOP, I have not found information that they added any form of buybacks in the bill. I have read the bill was thought to have weak language in regards to buybacks that the Dems wanted to be clarified, and made stronger.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … s-stimulus
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/19/trump-s … louts.html
https://www.rollcall.com/2020/03/20/tru … out-money/
I trust the president will veto a bill that would include buybacks.I don't in any respect think the president lies. He certainly misquotes, talks about things he has no expertise at, and often gives his opinion on what he has read or heard.
I certainly trust he will do what he said he will do. As a rule, he keeps his word.Yes, once more. I have provided my feelings on multiple occasions in regard do I think the president lies. I have also provided why I felt the media misleads the public by not providing full contents of specific statements that they are labeling as a lie. I don't think it intelligent or wise to not consider the full content of a statement. Leaving out all information leads to context problems.
This is my opinion, I don't seek to change your opinion or insult you or anyone else for their opinion. In the end, you must really realize I don't care what anyone thinks of my opinion. I am very comfortable with it.
Ultimately, I don't insult any individual's opinion.
I have insinuated, pointed the finger at a group based on their opinion, and added an insult to my comments. One gets as good as they give... It well appears some feel they can insult another but are not accepting of getting what they give out. I find this hypocritical. I have come to know what to expect from individuals on this forum. And have no problem respecting their individual opinions, and personalities. You may not like my opinion, but I have a right to it and am very comfortable with it. I guess it would be easy to jump on board the groupthink train. Just never did, and not about to now.
" What could he do differently? I don't know. How about stop talking, lying, spewing misinformation that leads directly to people doing things that will get them killed?"
That's pretty much the answer I get when I asked what he should have done. "TRUMP LIES!!!", as if that would have halted the virus in its tracks. Nothing more than spewing vitriol at a president you don't like, while admitting that there was nothing he could have done that would have helped significantly.Do you not see that the weeks Trump spent minimizing the seriousness of the situation caused many people to carry on without taking precautions and unnecessarily exposing themselves and others to potential death? Do you not see these same Trump believers still proclaiming this an invention of the media? Do you not see Trump fans now echoing the president's stupid idea of lifting restrictions by Easter? My husband, who is at high risk was "assaulted" by a stupid Trump fan on Sunday who came to our house when I was out walking and my husband was in bed sick. These stupid people are endangering others and Trump makes it worse with his stupid lies and narcissistic "hunches." I, for one, am sick of him and his dumbass supporters who defend his every lie and ignorant comments. And, yes, I am angry, because this is now the difference between life and death for many, many people.
You all need to get a freaking clue and stop defending such mind blowing stupidity.Geez, Panther, I am sorry to hear to hear about "your better half", and hope that all goes well.
This all isn't going to go away by Easter....
It's understood, it is talons time.So...he lies. And something new - a Trump fan assaulted your husband - obviously a failure by Trump to control every individual in the country.
Isn't that what I said? "HE LIES!!!" is the only answer I've gotten. Not a single suggestion on what he should have done differently, what actions he should have taken that would significantly decrease the problem.
Not defending Trump, just noting that all those screaming about how terrible his actions have been have not a single improvement to suggest. In other words, they have no complaint, just more Trump bashing, this time over the virus.This is the problem. People who think a leader lying and spreading misinformation during a crisis is not worthy of criticism and is merely bashing. Unbelievable.
No, Trump is not responsible for every individual's actions but you won't even hold him responsible for his own actions and words. Words that encourage other stupid people to do stupid things.Still nothing about what should have been done differently. That WAS the topic, you know - the complaint that Trump should have done things differently. Should I assume you have no suggestions to offer - that there is nothing he did wrong outside of make statements you don't like? All of his actions were appropriate, given the circumstances, except for running his mouth?
If so, shouldn't you be singing his praises for taking the actions he did take?"All of his actions were appropriate, given the circumstances, except for running his mouth?"
His actions are "running his mouth." With misleading statements or even downright lies which help very little in this situation. Why doesn't he simply keep quiet and let those who know about the virus speak? Because he can't stand to be outside the circle and never will be able to stand it.What he should have done differently is TELL THE TRUTH.
What is so hard for you to understand about that?Why is it the Trump supporters don't care if he lies or not? We see it all of the time on these forums. Some are even happy he does because those on the left detest his dishonesty. I just don't get it!
What's so hard is that running his mouth is not taking actions. You've complained about what he DID (not said - DID) but have nothing to offer that is any different.
Do you think telling the truth - as you see it now, not as he saw it then - would have stopped the virus from entering the US? Would it have prevented a single case of illness? If he had told the press that it was a vicious virus, killing large number of Americans, would those people playing at the beach, eating in restaurants, going to sports events, have all stopped and stayed home? Or would he have been laughed at and ignored? Think about it. And think about the numbers still doing it AFTER we understand better how dangerous it is. Then, setting aside your hatred for Trump and ignoring him altogether, see if you can honestly think it would be any different now had he "told the truth" that is understood now. And while you think about that, think about the near total destruction of our economy (that we depend on for survival) should there have been a national panic.In other words, his lies did no harm? If Obama had lied at the rate Trump does, the Right would have kicked his ass out of office the first year of his term.
Just admit it Dan, you don't care if he lies...This is just ridiculous. Spreading misinformation is an action but you know that.
Do you feel good about what you are saying here? Are you comfortable with saying that lying is not an action, especially when it is done by your leader, the one who should be responsibly steering all of us through this crisis? Really, wilderness? This is what you are stooping to, just so you can defend a liar? Why are you degrading yourself for a man who would lie during a time of crisis just to make himself look better?
So, If I am understanding you correctly, you are all worked up due to some of Trump's statements. Have you been pleased with his problem solving, and task force? What he has initiated to make an attempt to decrease spread and death from the virus? How is Trump killing people? If he would have done nothing as Obama did with H1N1 one could say he promoted a virus to run its course doing very little. Trump has the entire country pretty much shut down and has taken every possible step to decrease problems with this virus.
As I said, not sure you comprehended my comment in regards to Trump's statement. I could care less about his missteps with press statements. I care and respect his deeds...In the end, all the well-spoken words, and all the BS adds up to nothing but words. If a president can't produce solutions he has failed. I consider Trump's problem solving right on the money.
Again I note you just won't address your gal. I wonder why? Her words are always well taken by Dems. Her deeds speak pretty loudly, now don't they. LOL
Oh, are you tracking what he is actually doing to stop the spread and the death toll? Are you in your home as we all are in the form of self-isolation? Has any other president ever taken steps to financially help citizens that are not able to work during a crisis such as we are all going through? Maybe, you might want to stop criticizing and start being grateful for what he is doing.
I am waiting for you to address my questions.You couldn't care less about his lies and misstatements?
That says everything anyone needs to know.
And you give him all the credit for helping citizens? Interesting. That was Congress. Sounds like you owe the Democrats some thanks for looking out for the worker and average person and not corporate America.
I do love how you all turn to blaming Obama for everything, like your orange-haired Messiah. What I'm sure about with Obama is he consulted the advice of his medical experts and initiated policy based on how the virus was spreading.Not blaming Obama for anything. Just pointing out how differently he treated a virus crisis. he was well-spoken with his words. But did nothing to stop the spread or death toll. I pointed out something you just did not want to hear. Trump has also listened to the advice of medical experts. My Man, he shut down the country! Due to listening to experts. H1N1 was a killer, as is this virus. Both presidents handled their given crisis differently. Obama was known for flying below the radar. Why call names? Why so belligerent?
Do you intend to address Nancy's holding up the bill? Guess not. Just easier to bash Trump. It's getting old."Just before Sunday morning's meeting, Democrats revealed what they are still opposed to in the stimulus package. According to a person familiar with the negotiations, Democrats say the language would allow for corporations to keep bailout money while still firing workers, that the bailout money would have virtually no restraints and that there are very weak stock buyback restrictions."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre … s-n1166021I love how you went from Obama did what he could, to did very little to did nothing.
You base you comment on the spread and death toll. Do you know those number are estimates (which is the way CDC does, even for the flu), not the reported cases/deaths?
Also, those numbers are from April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010. You know this, right?
Right now, the numbers we have are reported cases/deaths. Not estimates. There's almost 1k deaths and the pandemis is not even 3 months in.
Btw, from CDC:
"CDC’s response to the 2009 H1N1 pandemic response was complex, multi-faceted and long-term, lasting more than a year."
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htmFlu season is from Oct as a rule until Feb, four months. H1N1 was one of our most devastating flus we ever have experienced in a very long time, it was with us for over a year. We had little to no control over it, and it killed people of all ages. I can tell you that due to my own experience working as an RN for a large hospital. We had a morgue that was kept full much of the winter of 2009, many deaths were children, babies. So, don't tell me about the numbers...
"While everyone is in a panic about the coronavirus (officially renamed COVID-19 by the World Health Organization), there's an even deadlier virus many people are forgetting about: the flu.
Flu season is hitting its stride right now in the US. So far, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000."
( to date --- the USA has 65,652 and 931 Deaths in three months)
"The CDC also estimates that up to 31 million Americans have caught the flu this season, with 210,000 to 370,000 flu sufferers hospitalized because of the virus.
(To date -- we now have 65,652 verses 31 million that suffered from the 2019 flu)
RELATED: Why Do Some People Die From the Flu?
The official toll of the 2019-2020 flu season won't be known for months. The season itself could last until May, and only preliminary estimates will be available until data is finalized.
"The current flu season has been difficult but it has not reached epidemic threshold,” infectious disease expert Amesh A. Adalja, MD, senior scholar at the John's Hopkins Center for Health Security in Baltimore, tells Health. “In the next couple of weeks, when more data is available, it will become clear just how severe the season was given that we had an initial dominance of influenza B and now dominance of influenza A H1N1."
When a second strain begins to dominate the flu season, this can cause the season to last longer, explains Dr. Adalja.
RELATED: Influenza B Is Dominating This Year's Flu Season. Here's What You Need to Know
So how do these numbers compare to flu deaths in previous years? So far, it looks like the 2019-2020 death toll won’t be as high as it was in the 2017-2018 season, when 61,000 deaths were linked to the virus. However, it could equal or surpass the 2018-2019 season's 34,200 flu-related deaths.
Overall, the CDC estimates that 12,000 and 61,000 deaths annually since 2010 can be blamed on the flu. Globally, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that the flu kills 290,000 to 650,000 people per year.
The annual death rate depends on the specific strain of the virus that is dominant, how well the vaccine is working to protect against that strain, and how many people got vaccinated, says Dr. Adalja. The flu is harder to fight off for specific populations, such as infants and young children, the elderly, and people who are immunocompromised due to chronic illnesses such as HIV or cancer.
In recent weeks, however, the spotlight has been firmly on the new coronavirus, which the WHO officially named COVID-19 on February 11. The concern is justified, as more than 1,000 people in mainland China have died from the virus—a larger number than those who died from severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in the 2002-2003 SARS epidemic. To date, there are 13 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the US.
RELATED: Surgical Masks Are Selling Out Because of Coronavirus Fears—but Do You Really Need One?
That doesn’t mean Americans don’t need to worry about the flu. In their guide to preventing coronavirus, the CDC recommends getting a flu vaccine and taking everyday preventive steps to help stop the spread of germs (such as avoiding close contact with people who are sick, covering your mouth and nose when coughing or sneezing, washing your hands often, and cleaning and disinfecting frequently touched surfaces at home, work or school—especially when someone is ill). It’s also important to take flu antivirals if they’re prescribed to you.
The fact that people are more concerned about COVID-19 than the flu virus is no surprise, says Dr. Adalja. “Anytime there is a new emerging infectious disease that is shrouded in mystery with a lot of unknowns, it captivates people in a way that a regular virus that people deal with on a yearly basis won’t,” he says."
https://www.health.com/condition/cold-f … very-year.
I provide that very link here and have read it well. The response was not at all complex it was multiple lengthy studies which while people died, and finally, a vaccine was produced. I suggest you read that link very carefully and thank god if you have children they did not acquire H1N1. I helped wrap and freeze many little children due to not much of anything being done by our government. So, please don't tell me about any flu. And just be thankful we have a president that is trying to save lives. So hate Trump if you will. He is working to help prevent death, Obama did nothing. And yes I compared, and yes I have pointed out the negative. Just like many do here daily about a president that is doing his job.
I am sick and tired of this kind of negativity, it sickens me. This is a crisis as was N1H1. At least we have a government that is trying to prevent death and financial hardships.You can quote all you want. But again, you didnt understand what you read. Im not "telling you about numbers", the CDC is. Even in your quote says is an estimate. Why, because numbers are "significant undercount". The same is true for the flu, again, according to CDC.
I dont hate Trump. And I could care less what sickens you and bla bla. I was pointing out your flip flop and fake outrage. Also, sharing information for those who care about facts.
Trying to mix things with the flu does not change that. But then again, you're a Trump follower and he again used the flu to minimized the current pandemic. So good job!The estimated deaths at the lowest estimate from the death rate of the 2019 seasonal flu have well surpassed the numbers we are seeing from this new virus. The CDC considers hospitalizations for flu and death reports that were considered caused by complications of flu. The low end of the estimation is obtained by those values.
II am in no respect going to argue how the CDC estimates yearly flu cases or deaths that result in each year from common yearly seasonal flu. Anyone that does the slightest research in regards to numbers will realize as of yet Covid19 is not producing the death rate than H1N1 did, and in many cases will not reach the number of deaths for yearly seasonal flu.
As I pointed out one can consider the low estimate of the CDC.report on numbers that were infected with H1N1, as well as death rate far, surpass the Covid19 stats. It is apparent the Covid19 stats will be hard to calculate due to many are not been counted due to not becoming ill enough to report their illness. But the death rate, that will be verified better than any other flu due to the deaths are being counted daily.
I presented an article that gave an educated evaluation of yearly flu and evaluation of Covid19. The article provided stats that were collected by the CDC. The author was clear in regards to the stats are estimated stats.
I don't in any respect feel the need to defend my statement in regard to my opinion. I came to it due to my own experience with H1N1. And the fact that it was handled poorly. And if I were to say anything about how Trump is truly handling this flu crisis from day one, I would say --- Good Job!
Tell that to Boris Johnson. I'll bet that would be a lot of comfort to him.
I know this thread represents business as usual on the internet and,in some ways, that's refreshing. We need to keep normalcy as much as possible. But give us a break.
When the administration first enforced a travel ban the left screamed xenophobia. Was it? In retrospect?
When Trump followed government guidelines on when to get tested, because we don't want a further shortage of test kits due to testing with no symptoms, how did the left respond?
How much has left leaning media pushed a conspiracy theory that Trump is going to 'cancel elections' in an attempt to preemptively undermine any attempts to fully call for social distancing?
How often has the left cheered liberal cities refusing to work with the federal government? And now how many on the left are whining that the federal government isn't moving swiftly enough to act in their cities?
You can certainly laugh at those trying to get all sectors of our economy and government working hand in hand to help America during this crisis. I prefer to support the efforts, give leeway since this is a situation never addressed by the feds before, and reserve criticism.
Let's get through this, together. I'd think we have bigger things to do than sit around and complain about those who have an unprecedented and urgent series of problems to tackle.Trump's ban on travel from China has been cited as one of the good things that he did by the Left. I saw a piece on CNN just yesterday.
Unfortunately, he cut funding to the agencies that deal with this type of thing, so we were left unprepared.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be gaslighted by you or anyone else. This is the conservative dream come home to roost. Misinform the public. Elect people who don't believe in science. Elect people who don't believe in government. And then whine when scientists and government are needed and it all doesn't work.
Trump has stood in the White House until the very last second saying he knows more than the scientists and spreading lies and misinformation. Did you not notice that after after speech he gave, a mass of clarifications had to come from the White House because of all the misinformation.
Everyone who wants to get tested can get tested (still not true). People will get free health care...
Your conspiracy theories are coming from the right wing garbage you eat.Tell yourself whatever you need to in order to get through this. I simply find it sad but you aren't the first who goes by the adage 'if you don't have anything good to say about something, come sit by me.'
The most important thing we can all do doesn't need government guidelines, unless you just need to be told what to do at every turn. If that be the case then of course the government falls short. I was already doing everything suggested. Did it from the moment the first case appeared outside of China.
I just hope that in the midst of your criticisms you are doing what you can to ensure you aren't part of the problem.Well, I agree that's good advice and I'm glad you are following the scientists. Unfortunately, a great number of your fellow right-wingers aren't. They are dismissing the seriousness of this and downplaying the advice of the experts because they simply don't believe "experts".
Be sad all you want, but the environment created by the everything is a hoax and everything is a conspiracy crowd has created this situation. In such a dire emergency, the uninformed and the hoax crowd are seriously dangerous. And that includes President Trump. We got to witness that first hand.
I realize that there's a much larger philosophical conversation to be had here about our two party system and the terrible choices we must make and the need for a viable third-party, but that's an entirely different conversation and a long one, at that.
Your plea for togetherness might be better received if it didn't contain a litany of criticisms of "the left" while ignoring the very dangerous fact that quite a large percentage of people, mostly Trump fans, spend their days on social media claiming this is an invented crisis and bragging that they 're not changing their behavior one iota.
This really, really pisses me off, as my husband is 72 and at high risk. These dumbasses live in my community and are endangering the lives of my husband, my family, and my friends. That is far worse than the mostly legitimate criticisms leveled at Trump, who has been slow to acknowledge the severity of this crisis.p
That said, I agree with your point but would feel it were more sincere if it wasn't basically another rant about "the left."Hey. There's problems coming from both sides. I just commented on the left because the left is driving this thread.
This is kind of like when everyone was criticizing the FBI when the towers fell. I was just in shock because something like that had never really happened before and, before that day, I couldn't have imagined it happening.
It's easy to criticize. Someone else.Okay, absolutely. It's impossible to prepare for things that have never happened before. And if you're asking me for truth, even had Trump done everything exactly right, it's entirely possible we'd be exactly where we are.
That said, the right-wing elects anti-government, anti-science zealots into positions of power. They don't want government to work and they don't want to follow the lead of scientists. They simply don't believe scientists. How can we respond to a crisis like this with those types of people running things?
Then add to that, Trump standing up there lying about insurance, lying about testing, and lying about everything being under control? How does that send a clear message. Every address he gave until very recently was followed by a litany of corrections. One things that's necessary in any crisis is effective communication."They don't want government to work and they don't want to follow the lead of scientists. They simply don't believe scientists."
Do you actually believe this drivel? That those on the right don't want government to work or that they don't believe scientists? Recognizing that a great many from the left are virtually praying for Trumps economy to tank big time (failure of government) it still doesn't mean that anyone wants general failure of government.
As far as lying about being under control, when has government ever not lied to the people? It ialways spins the truth to try and get the reaction it wants whether it be fury, fear or something else (money, perhaps). Whether half the story, exaggeration or outright lie, government will always say what it thinks will produce the "right" reaction. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth is, and never has been, part and parcel of government "communication".Are you saying Trump and his admin haven't told more lies than any other to date? Where do you draw the line? Or do you?
Yes, I believe that. I can quote you a thousand different statements by right-wingers about how scientists are just hoax-creators. And the purpose of conservatives is to create a very limited government. That's all well and good, but it's unlikely to be able to respond well in a crisis. Conservatives mostly want to neuter government and privatize most functions.
As I mentioned to somebody else, this is obviously a complex subject and we tend to have to vote between a conservative government, which errs toward limitations and not working and a bloated government, that also doesn't work great and costs everyone an arm and a leg. Those are some crappy choices.
Your second paragraph is well-taken. Government, under few, tells the truth. And bureaucrats play a lot of CYA.
So I'm just boiling things down. The right-wing has been promoting an anti-science agenda for a long time. It's been promoting an anti-intellectual agenda for a long time. University's are just full of evil liberals. It matters.As an aside, have you seen the reports about spring-breakers in Florida? Maybe Mike is correct. We should all just take our chances because nobody is listening and nobody cares anyway. Young folks are just gathering on the beaches as if social distancing is a total fabrication. What difference does it make if stuff like this happens? Regardless of what the rest of us do, this thing will spread.
My roommate listens to that late night talking head who seems to do nothing other than mock our president. It is so boring and old by the NWO crowd. He's saving this country for the rest of us.
Good. Don't listen to the professionals because your president knows more than all of them put together. Remember, it's simply a "Democratic and media hoax."
And "we've stopped it." Also, "we have it under control." You'll be fine....
"Isn't the current effort directed to try to keep the healthcare system from getting overwhelmed, so that at least those who get it can be treated if we flatten the curve of infection?"
Well, yes. As I said above, that is the strategy. It just isn't a good or useful strategy. Absent effective treatments, there is little point in hospitalizing people in the first place--and, absent, negative pressure hospital facilities, it is a VERY bad idea to hospitalize coronavirus patients.
What people do not seem to realize is that slowing the rate of infection will merely prolong the pandemic. Instead of burning out in four months or so, the pandemic will last for about a year, or something in that general neighborhood.
Around here, the schools and the public library are closed--and even our local health clinic for low-income people. Restaurants and bars are closed in major metro areas.
I suppose this might not be a bad strategy, as it is possible that the virus will die out around the beginning of May, as is typical of the seasonal flu. If so, I would also expect it to return in the fall.
In any case, I hope that the plan is not to keep the national economy on lock-down for a year or more. The resulting economic depression would be far worse than a degree of excess mortality among the elderly and immune-suppressed--most of whom could self-quarantine with a little help from the community. If a government program is needed, a good one would be to provide self-quarantine assistance to the vulnerable.
If we could gear up to protect the vulnerable population, it would be far better to let this burn through G-pop, so that the self-quarantine period for those who are most at risk would be only about four months, as opposed to a year or more.
As to your question, "What do you think is keeping current scientific minds from making a similar argument?" I have opinions on that.
Are you aware that world trade has been collapsing for some months now? Did you know that we are in the midst of a world-wide financial crisis? I don't mean the stock market. I am referring to a massive collapse of the banking/financial/monetary system, which has also been ongoing on for some months (long before coronavirus appeared on the scene).
I pay little attention to the MSM, so I don't know if they have been covering this. I doubt it.
Suffice to say that I think the pandemic and the systemic collapse in the banking/finance sector are related--and not in a cause-and-effect kind of way.
Another answer to your question is simply that the authorities are under tremendous pressure to "do something"--or at least appear to be doing something. And the public appears to expect and demand salvation from that quarter. IMHO they would be better off appealing to the Tooth Fairy.What is your medical expertise?
Ultimately, you are proposing a solution that most of the other libertarians on this web site are proposing: do nothing because the police state is worse than the virus.I may be mistaken but Britain began with that strategy, until they realized it was foolish. They've changed their approach. I would think Italy would be a prime example of why that makes little sense.
Here's more on chloroquine: https://drive.google.com/file/d/186Bel9 … HnGbj/view
Italy is an interesting case study. It has a very high population of elderly. (Most of the young people left.) Italy also has a large Chinese population (300,000), mostly in Lombardy, who flew back to Italy after the Chinese New Year, mainly from Wuhan. Hence, excess mortality is unusually high.
How would slowing the contagion have helped them? How would the availability of hospital beds have helped them? Putting the stricken in hospitals merely spreads the virus, absent negative-pressure facilities, and would save few if any lives, as there is no effective treatment (that is being used).
Most likely the virus will burn out quickly in Italy--with a mortality rate no higher than if they had succeeded in slowing the contagion. The same number of people die, either way.They are making decisions on who dies, because of a lack of ventilators. The medical staff are overwhelmed. Slowing down the spread would have made life saving ventilators available to more in need. Unless, you see old people dying without adequate care as acceptable.
That is precisely what the right-winger, conspiracy theorists are saying on this web site. Let it run its course. Let people did. Those deaths are meaningless compared to the economic catastrophe we are going to face. This is exactly what Trump was saying. Don't worry about it. We've got it under control. It'll be over in a few weeks.
I've only seen one person advocate that course of action. You say right wing conspiracy theorists as if that represents a lot of people. I think there are a lot of left wing conspiracy theorists on this site. Maybe we both just feel the need to exaggerate?
And give Trump a break. What do you want him to do? Suggest we all put our heads through our legs and kiss our butts goodbye? Calm. We need to stay calm and positive. That's his message.Nope. There are many people on this board speaking from a conservative point of view using conspiracy web sites for their daily news and advocating for doing very little about this and letting it run its course. Those same sites pushed Pizzagate, climate change as a hoax, vaccines linked to autism, Sandy Hook as a hoax - all of it.
They are saying that the police state is worse than any outcome from the virus.
And I'm sure they're still worried about the government coming to take their guns.I worry about liberals using this crisis to their advantage, but is it really unwarranted? Pelosi had one simple job to accomplish. Address this crisis in a bipartisan fashion. She failed miserably.
Did she put out fake reports like, "we've stopped it?" Or did she say it was a "democratic and media hoax?" Who said these things?
Randy, LTL is worried about liberals. In all this? Pretty amazing. Liberals don't need to do anything really, just let people honestly evaluate Trump's handling of this and the effect his initial inaction has on the final death toll. You would think people would be worried about the denigration of our scientific community and the lack of confidence they have in science during a time when we really need the guidance of science.
Face it Crank, Trump's supporters trust his hunches more than our scientific community. You can't cure stupid, as my grandma was wont to say....
Randy, how do I keep from being frustrated? It's like all these people don't realize the negative impact of years of anti-science rhetoric. What happens is that it renders your supporters incapable of distinguishing between fact and fiction. How are they able to suddenly pivot and accept that scientists are actually the ones we should be listening to?
If Trump tells them to believe the scientists, they'll listen. But he won't without having to admit he doesn't know more about the virus than they do. It's a pride thing...
This doesn't make any sense at all given recent developments. What are you talking about?
I was confused by her claim myself. Probably something she heard Sean or Rush say...
Trump may have just lied again about the availability of surgical masks and medical equipment. Or, as usual, he said something without all the information.
And the number of those hospitalized under the age of 50 is skyrocketing. Your information is junk. The right-wing theory on COVID-19 is that it's all overblown and we should do nothing except party on the beaches of Florida and let the virus run its course.
Such an argument, of course, necessarily deflects blame from President Trump for not taking this seriously sooner and listening to the scientists, who I'm sure were just trying to figure out a way to profit from all this virus stuff.You did notice she ignored your question of her experience with such viruses and instead used a known conspiracy site to back up her opinions. DOH!
Yes. She's a conspiracy theorist who frequents junk web sites. I could find better information inside a toilet stall at my local bar.
Live to Learn, my information is that virtually everyone who is put on a ventilator for coronavirus dies anyway. This is based on information coming out of China; Everyone who was put on a ventilator died.
The survival rate for people who are put on a ventilator for other reasons is said to be only 49% while still in the hospital. The mortality rate during the subsequent year is 70%.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=238541Just in: Trump says the FDA has approved Chloroquine for coronavirus.
I guess the question is whether adequate supplies can be produced quickly in the US.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/wat … y-briefing
Once again, if you are relying on the MSM, you are probably unaware of ANY of this information.It was front page on CNN. Zerohedge is another of these pro-Trump web sites that publishes conspiracy theories regularly. So, you know, do us all a favor and stop elevating your supposed independent research, non MSM garbage. I've seen this over and over again - I'm so superior because I don't read the MSM. Instead, I rely on a right-wing conspiracy site for my news.
I'm just offering you the facts about the virus. They are widely available. If there is some specific item of information you dispute, it would be helpful if you would name it. It would be even more helpful if you would provide some evidence that support your disputation, or some line of reasoning.
One thing I have often noticed about liberals--and sometimes even conservatives--is that the expectation that they have some reason or evidence for their beliefs is an utterly novel concept to them.Earlier today, I had a conversation with my daughter, who is a respiratory therapist in a local hospital with two coronavirus patients. She has treated at least one of them and had some contact with the other. (I wasn't clear on whether she had treated both.)
I mentioned to her that statisfics showed a 49% in-hospital survival rate of patients placed on vents. (That means that 51% leave the hospital in a box.) She said that it seemed to her that the survival rate was better than that, just based on her experience. So she started googling studies to confirm this. She found one quickly. It was a small study, but stated that the in-hospital death rate of patients placed on mechanical ventilators (the more invasive kind) was 79%.
So--if you wished to dispute this particular point, you should certainly be able to find studies to support your belief.
Information is available. You also presumably have the capability to reason therefrom. If you refuse to seek information and refuse to think and reason, and choose instead to parrot MSM bleatings.... Well, I guess that's how you wind up a liberal.Who the hell are you responding to, Vile? Do you actually know how to properly respond, or are you purposely trying to confuse the issue?
In case you would like to look at a clinical retrospective study giving the survival rate of COVID-19 patients placed on respirators, you can view the statistics here: https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPd … %2930566-3
Outcomes for patients placed on both invasive and non-invasive respirators is in the table on page 5. (I wasn't able to copy and paste the table here.)
This table indicates a survival rate of 5% for the total of both types of ventilation: Out of 58 patients placed on ventilators, 3 survived. I trust you can do the math on this yourself.Well, Randy and Crank, since you were dismissive of my posts without providing any specifics as to your points of contention--or offering any arguments--I supposed you did not believe the statistics on the efficacy of ventilators. That is, after all, the only point you could dispute.
Admittedly, my assumption was perhaps unwarranted, since you both seem reluctant to air your actual objections. I guess you want prevent people from answering your objections by refusing to state them. (Only you know what they are: it's a secret.)
Since there is no other treatment available in hospitals, and it is presumably your belief that it is crucial to "flatten the curve" of contagion to ensure the availability of hospital beds, it seemed likely to me that you might want to dispute the survival rate of patients placed on ventilators.
This link is to a retrospective study by The Lancet (previously posted above), showing a 5% survival rate. https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPd … %2930566-3What is your medical expertise aside from being able to search the internet and find right-wing conspiracy web sites?
So, again, I would suggest that you (Randy and Crank) provide some data and reasoned arguments, both of which are heretofore missing from any of your comments.
I think that response makes perfect sense. It's just that when I see somebody using right-wing conspiracy sites, I just don't want to waste my time with them because it's really long odds that they can tell truth from fiction. Like, and I use this reference frequently, Pizzagate. You tell me you believe in Pizzagate, I'm just not talking to you anymore because, well, why?
Wow! She used the word "heretofore," Crank. Don't question her authority.
Here's link to the article citing the Lancet study: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=238556
Crank, evaluating the "quarantine" strategy does not require medical epertise. It merely requires a desire and willingness to seek out the data, and ability to think and reason. And--of course--an interest in discovering the truth.
I am interested in making a truthful evaluation of the government strategy. You (and some others here) are not interested in whether an idea is TRUE or not. You are merely in whether it is AUTHORIZED or not. You do not ask yourself, "Is this true?" You ask yourself, "Am I allowed to think that?" and even, "Am I allowed to think ABOUT that?"
If you wish to dispute anything I have said, you need to produce some facts and reasoning that show why you think it is not TRUE. You have said you think it's not true. Why? What are your reasons?
So far, all I'm hearing are logical fallacies: The "appeal to authority" and the all-to-familiar ad hominem fallacy. (Apparently, too, you do not consider a retrospective study from The Lancet to be authoritative. Perhaps you should explain why.)
Your employment of the "appeal to authority" fallacy is suggestive of a person with the mind of a child--who either cannot or will not think and reason--or of a person who knows himself/herself to be of subnormal intelligence and who must therefore rely on the judgement of those whom he/she believes to be of at least normal intelligence.
Your employment of the ad hominem fallacy is suggestive of a person who lacks emotional and intellectual maturity--whose mental age is roughly that of a middle-schooler.
Give me some reasons for disagreeing with what I have said. I haven't heard any yet.I disagree with you because you use established right-wing conspiracy sites to inform your thinking.
Given how Trump supporters reason these days in defending his consistently misleading and false statements, your perception of my intellectual maturity puts me in the upper echelon of those folks, so I thank you.
I should add that there's definitely a soft spot in my heart for any site that names itself after an Arthur C. Clarke reference. There's no way that one is all bad. Can't be. Not possible.Asking you where you got your opinions, or what your credentials are, is only logical if you are a stranger. Learn a better flounce than...."how dare you ask me!"
How about your educational background? Your posts are well-reasoned. Degrees? In what subject? Advanced degree? Your articles are mostly about making soap. Chemistry maybe? I'm not going to insult you about that because my wife makes soap and lotion, so I might get in trouble if I try to relate soap-making to any lack of intelligence. Also, my wife is doing lots of COVID-19 research and I'd believe her assessment of it, so I don't know, you're starting to hook me a bit now.
Crank, you still have not mentioned a single fact or reason to dispute anything I have said.
Sorry, but my estimation of your maturity and intelectual capacity was informed by your use of logical fallacies, along with your apparent belief that such arguments are acceptable.
Mature adults are expected to support their views with facts and reason--not with ad hominems. I will not speculate as to why you are incapable that status and apparently do not even aspire to it.I have no evidence that using facts and reason with right-wingers and/or Trump supporters makes any difference at all, so why waste the effort?
As to you inquiry about my educational background, it is relevant to none of the points I have made. All that is required to reach the conclusions I have presented is the most elementary understanding the behavior viral infections, and an ability to reason ones way to conclusions. Any person of normal intelligence may do so.
The inability to do this indicates the mind of a child, or of a person of sub-normal intelligence. The unwillingness to do this indicates perhaps more sinister possibilities. A slavish reverence for sacrosanct "authorities" would most likely arise from some personal misfortune in ones education and training, as well as, I think, a moral deficiency amounting to intellectual cowardice. Men can, after all, be trained like dogs, but not all men will consent to remain the moral equivalent of dogs.
If your intellectual inquiries are restrained by your requirement for an imprimatur, you are in a very bad way indeed.Okay, so let's discuss intellectual training. I'll show you mine if you show me yours. To repeat, I've never seen a well-reasoned, factual argument move a Trump supporter or a right-winger away from a falsehood so I tend not to waste my time with it.
I will say that, if I was just judging by your vocabulary and sentence construction and the way you present your arguments, I would assume you are quite intelligent, unlike the President.
Randy, I freely grant you permission to use the word "heretofore." I know the word astonishes you.
No, the word doesn't astonish me. But you do...
If I used the word"antidisestablishmentarianism" in a sentence, would you think better of me?
Here's a more recent podcast: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=238562
Now, if you don't believe the guy, explain why.Oh, and by the way, Randy, sticking your tongue out at someone rather than addressing their argument reflects poorly on your level of intellectual and emotional maturity. Not only do you reason like a child, you act like one.
I'm so pleased you're taking the time to psychoanalyze me, Vile. I'm sure you have qualifications for this as well.
You neglected to cite those again. A mere slippance of the mind perhaps?
I'm damn sure the numbers are very high then what are being communicated. It has spread over 170+ countries all over the world and many countries don't even have proper testing for this. So, these are not accurate number. We should act responsibly and start social distancing to avoid another catastrophe. I found a live map of corona virus spread:
https://coronavirushit.com/live-map/
It shows updates as verified by the countries. We should keep an eye on this and educated ppl to stay healthy and wash hands frequently.
Love for all!Please everyone, go directly to any Corona Virus map by typing the URL directly into your browser and not clicking on links. There's one by Johns Hopkins that's being mimicked by Russian hackers and it has some nasty malware on it. Not kidding.
Well, being a person of normal intelligence, I am able to gather information, think, and reason. You seem to be deeply resentful of people who are able to do these things--and use three-syllable words.
You seem to be unable to produce and data or line of reasoning to refute what I have said. In fact, you have nothing whatsoever to say. You have presented no facts or reasoned arguments--because you cannot refute what I've said using facts and reason.
None of this is hard to understand and figure out. One does not need to be a credentialed astronomer to surmise that the sun will rise tomorrow--at least not if you are a person of normal intelligence.
If thinking and reasoning--and big words--are so troublesome to you as to arouse your resentment, perhaps you should ask yourself why you are unable to perform these functions that are easily within the capability of adults of normal intelligence (though not typically in children). One would think that you would at least aspire to have normal intellectual functionality.Okay, keep trying this tack if you like.
I've explained, I've seen no reasoned argument used no matter how well sourced that's turned a Trump supporter away from a falsehood.
Why are you afraid to discuss your intellectual training?
All I'm saying about vocabulary is that it's usually reflective of intelligence, so I'm giving you a compliment. You should take a look at how the President uses words sometime. Here's a link for you:
https://vocabularyzone.com/undeniable-l … bulary-iq/Often those who use "big words" as you call them, are making up for their lack of intelligence or education. There's that...
Yeah, I know a person like that. My ex's wife. She barely made it out of high school and uses $5 words where 25 cents will do. Now I make sure to use words like "ain't" and "fixin' to" when I'm around her. (I have an MA.)
- I do the same around people who think they have a superior vocabulary, Doris. "I reckon you kin, relate"..
Randy, if I were you I would re-think this idea of relying on "authorities," rather than doing your own thinking.
These are the people who told you to eat transfats for 50 years, who told you that "subprime is contained," and who imprisoned Galileo for saying that the earth revolved around the sun.
Now, an old friend of mine was able to explain that last one to me. He said, "Well, the sun USED to revolve around the earth. As soon as the earth started revolving around the sun, they [the Church] changed it."I depend on many different sources of facts, Vile. I even watch Faux News to keep up with the latest conspiracies spun there by the non-journalists.
Crank, I have no problem with intellectual training. I think our schools should try it.
The schools in your state don't do this already? This explains a lot....
Now we are getting somewhere. Whatever self education you have provided yourself is superior to anything I may have received at any of our prestigious colleges or universities. Do I have that right? So already dismissing any degrees I may have as worthless. What direct experience do you have that suggests our colleges and universities do not provide rigorous intellectual training?
And, oh look, here we are once again. Our institutions of higher education, of learning, do not provide adequate training. It's only the poor, lost soul, searching the internet, who can provide us with the information we need. All those scientists, the vast majority working for research universities throughout the world, have inadequate intellectual training, so we shouldn't believe them.
We should get our information from right-wing conspiracy web sites. Don't believe the scientists. Believe me! I have superior reasoning skills and an internet connection.
So you're okay with him downplaying the danger of the virus? Has the virus "stopped"? Do we have "tremendous control" over the virus? Are such claims helpful or detrimental to those wanting facts at this time?
I feel the task force team is providing factual information and facts. Trump is certainly adding his options instead of just keeping to the facts. I am not sure what he meant by tremendous control over the virus, he did not explain his opinion. So, it leaves one to form their own opinion on what he said. I don't think we have control over any brand new virus. And, we never have, it takes time to research any new virus to obtain some forms of control over it. The only real control would be a vaccine that works.
We have flu every year, and at one time or another, each of these flus was new to us. We conquered them with research.
Are Trump's statements detrimental to those that want fact? I listening to the experts for facts. I don't consider the president an expert on viruses. I give him credit for the people he has selected for the task force. His statements don't upset me. His opinions as a rule shock many. I doubt if he is going to change his personality for anyone. That is very clear.Indeed, he's not gonna get any smarter, that's for damn sure!
I consider him a smart man, a man that is not afraid to face a problem and go out on a limb to solve it. He is transparent, he uses common sense, and he just does not play with the politically correct, and never will.
Well then, you can explain how he lost his two casinos. It takes an idiot businessman or a crook to achieve that feat.
Where was his common sense then? And don't get me started on Trump University or the Trump charity foundation. But you can explain those common sense fiascos as well, I'm positive!Randy, losing business, in my opinion, does not reflect their intelligence. Most of the very rich have the ability to "take a chance" and promote their ideas. Our country was built by such people. I have no intent to research why his university failed or his foundation. I do know the gambling industry was in dire straits in 2009 due to our failing economy.
"The unemployment rate rose to 10 percent in October 2009, the worst since the 1982 recession. Almost 6 million jobs were lost in the 12 months prior to that. Employers added temporary workers, too cautious about the economy to add full-time employees. ... But the outstanding balance of all loans made went up 5 percent."
Many businesses went belly up in 2009. Trump made attempts to stay afloat with the aid of Carl Icahn. But failed at keeping his casinos solvent.And many who labored on the casinos only got paid pennies on the dollar for their efforts. Trump dare not go to New Jersey, just ask people who were ripped off by the "stable genius."
As for the Trump foundation, it was shut down with neither Donald, Ivanka, or any other of the Trump family able to conduct such a charitable entity again because of their spend donated money on personal items.
In other words, Trump using donated money to have a portrait of himself made for $25,000.Randy, it is clear the court ruled against Trump and find him 2 million dollars to right his wrongs.
Yes, many people lost their jobs due to the bankruptcies of his casinos. This is, unfortunately, a part of life. When businesses go under, their employees are out of work.Yes, but how many times must a businessman have this happen to him before he realizes he isn't a good businessman, Shar?
This is why no US banks will lend him money. No Bank want's to lend money to someone who won't--or can't--pay it back?
So he goes to Deutsche Bank, which has a rather dubious record of money laundering for Russia. Why is this when he's such a great businessman?Randy. the bottom line, I have supported Trump's job performance. I have been clear in regard to my feelings about his personality, his character. I have defended some of the problems the media has caused by reporting false stories when they were clearly false. I have not defended his many clearly horrible statements. I still believe he is doing an excellent at his job.
I voted for him on due to his agenda, not his personality or his character.
His reputation proceeds him. He is blunt, he gives his opinion too often when he should not. I find this very acceptable. I dislike canned speeches and a man that is afraid to say what he is thinking. That's just me, condemn me, burn me at the stake... I am not willing to condemn his job performance. I am not one that will join a herd just to be part of it. To stay under the radar.
A question --- Besides what you feel in regards to some of Trump's opinionated statements, ( I don't care about all we need is assurance, we need facts we need truth, we need comforting).
What do you think of the task force Trump created, and the closing of the borders to China one day after our first case was reported, his asking Congress for three bills to help the medical field, the citizens financially, and so much more? Do you think he has done a good job to quickly address this horrible problem?The task force is fine, but 2 months too late as Trump's WH team didn't follow the NSC playbook guidelines, Shar.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics … r-BB11IjMW'Other recommendations include that the government move swiftly to fully detect potential outbreaks,'
Trump was on it quickly shutting the borders to China, then shortly after to Europe and Uk. He followed by making it a national emergency.
"the playbook urges, repeatedly advising officials to question the numbers on viral spread, ensure appropriate diagnostic capacity and check on the U.S. stockpile of emergency resources."
Trump quickly and daily worked with his task force to work on getting equipment, needed test kits, and mobilizing governors to take actions on precautions statewide. He s doing a good job getting the equipment that is needed and was not in our stockpiles.
"The guide further calls for a “unified message” on the federal response, in order to best manage the American public's questions and concerns."
Trump has given daily press conferences to inform the public on what is going on, as well as takes questions from the press. This is unprecedented.
I read the article, and it appears Trump used the Playbook with good speed.. I have to point to H1N1 once again. Obama totally ignored this Playbook. This playbook pretty much was followed by the numbers. Not sure this author did a very good job bashing Trump with after reading the actual playbook... She tried, but no cigar."But according to a previously unrevealed White House playbook, the government should’ve begun a federal-wide effort to procure that personal protective equipment at least two months ago."
You read it?
"Obama totally ignored this Playbook."
The NSC devised the guide — officially called the Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents, but known colloquially as “the pandemic playbook” — across 2016.As of today, the U.S. now leads the world in total infections. Based on the current growth rate, it will get much worse in the days and weeks ahead.
Trump's foot dragging to protect his resorts and casinos will kill a lot of people.Unfortunately, he has led America to be #1. Can't say the rest of the world didn't see it coming
- The playbook wasn't written when Obama was coping with the flu. so how could he "ignore'" it? Duh!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets … li=BBnb7Kz
And there's this:COVID-19 is a nothingburger. So far this year Italy has 7,503 COVID-19 deaths, and in past flu seasons there have been 41,066 and 43,336. Not much of a "catastrophe."
Also, Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx have both walked away bigly from the "scare everyone" prediction that 2 to 10 million Americans are likely to die if we don't lock down cities.
There have been as many as 14,000 UK deaths during past flu seasons. As of now, the UK death rate from coronavirus stands at 578. A recent Oxford study indicates that as many as 50% of the people in the UK may be immune (due to having been infected and recovered).
So, basically, half the people in the UK have already had the virus, and no one noticed. And with an immunity rate that high, the virus is about done there.What a grossly irresponsible post and another example of Rush Limbaugh BS. It's this kind of post that will lead to more deaths.
Coronavirus is 2.5 times more infectious and more than 1,500 times deadlier than the flu.
Numerous experts and governments including UK estimate that as many of 50% or more will become infected if they don't stop it now.
The only reason that a lot more people aren't dead is because governments don't listen to Rush Limbaugh or you. The world is not flat.
https://www.msn.com/en-sg/health/medica … ar-BBZSMHMWhen you reach a 50% immunity rate, you are very close to the point where the virus burns itself out. If the R0 were actually 3 for this virus, that would be in a few days. (It is unlikely that the R0 is that high, and it would decline with increasing immunity in the population.
The people who are irresponsible are those who are spreading fairy tales.
But maybe you prefer fairy tales to math.Actual death rates do no bear out your statement that it is "more than 1,500 times deadlier than the flu." Deaths are 1,201 out of 83,545 confirmed cases. That give a 1.4% death rate.
The number of confirmed flue cases in 2017-18 was 128,892 and the number of deaths was 80,000. That gives a death rate of 6%.
Show me some math that supports your statement.You are comparing the current death rate of all current cases in the U.S. with the 2017 / 2018 death rate of closed cases.
The current death rate of closed cases in the U.S. is 41% (1,321 / 3,210). That rate will decline as the number of closed cases increases.
The worldwide death rate of closed cases is 16%.
Someone who catches coronavirus today doesn't die today. They take weeks to die. It's why you can't compare the current death rate with total current infections.
Your 2017 / 2018 number also are wrong. The CDC estimates that 61,000 died and 45 million were infected for a death rate of only 0.1%.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden-av … 7-2018.htm
In a typical flu season, 36,000 people die of the flu.
This article (dated 2-7-19} says that, "Last year, more than 80,000 people died of the flu and its complications in the United States, the highest death toll for the disease in at least four decades." I checked elsewhere to confirm.
https://weather.com/health/cold-flu/new … odFSHvkw..
For the COVID-19 virus the US now has 1,201 deaths.
If people would look at the actual data, they would not be quite so alarmed.Promisem:
The Diamond Princess outbreak gives us a very good example from which to calculate the mortality rate of the virus, based on closed cases--a very good case study.
AMONG THOSE INFECTED, the death rate on the Diamond Princess was 1.4%. That is according to this site: https://epidemic-stats.com/coronavirus/diamond-princess
According to Wikipedia, there were 3,711 passengers and crew aboard, of whom ten died. So..... The death rate among all who were aboard was 10/3711 = 0.00269 = 0.269%.
It's also worth pointing out that older (often elderly) people are heavily over-represented among cruise ship passengers. So we have only a 0.269% death rate (among the total population), even among a group of people who are much older than a cross-section of the US population, along with a death rate among those actually infected of only 1.4%.Interesting that the 1.4% death rate among confirmed cases on the Diamond Princess is an exact match for the 1.4% death rate of confirmed cases in the US as a whole (1,201 out of 83,545 confirmed cases).
I is likely that more than 1,201 deaths will occur among the present number of confirmed cases, as these cases are closed.
On the other hand, I'm not sure how good a match we have between the two in terms of the age and stSate of health of those actually tested. On the Diamond Princess, everyone got tested. In the US population as a whole, there are some major constraints on who gets tested. Maybe things have changed, but the last I heard, if you have the flu and ask to be tested for coronavirus, you will be refused unless you have recently traveled to China, Italy, or Iran, or have had recent contact with someone who has tested positive. (I know this because one of my daughters has been ill with the flu and was refused a test for coronavirus for those reasons.) So in effect we are only testing people who are very ill--probably enough to be hospitalized--and who are very likely disproportionately older and infirm.
While the passengers on the Diamond Princess were disproportionately older adults, they were probably not in really awful health, or they would have stayed home. Plus there was probably a decent percentage of younger, healthier people.
Deaths from coronavirus tend to be among those known in medical circles as "frequent flyers"--meaning they have a history of being in and out of the hospital on a regular basis for COPD or other issues.
My point is that, due to the likely differences in the populations of those tested, I suspect that the 1.4% mortality rate seen on the Diamond Princess would be about the same as among the general population of US confirmed/closed cases, if those tested were an "apples to apples" comparison.There are some countries that have an unusually high mortality rate, such as Iran, and there are some other countries where the virus has been little more than a blip on the radar, such as Japan, even though Japan undertook very little in the way of prevention. No one really knows why.
There have been speculations that climate may play a role. On the other hand, it is now confirmed that the virus is also transmitted via the fecal-oral route, so some have speculated that this is the reason why there is a huge problem in countries in which is is customary to eat with your right hand and wipe your caboose with your left, and passes almost unnoticed in countries like Japan, whose culture is very fastidious in matters of hygiene.MizBejabbers, it appears that Boris Johnson has received the memo: https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/inte … IxYP0E9IvU
The UK government has downgraded the coronavirus; it is now no longer a threat.
In an earlier comment I mentioned that an Oxford study indicated that probably about half the population of the UK was immune to the coronavirus.
I then speculated that (being as 50% is pretty close to the 70% you need for a virus to burn out) the UK was within a week or two of reaching this burnout point. If the R0 were actually 3, the burnout would have occurred within days, so I was being conservative.Did this memo go out before or after Boris Johnson contracted coronavirus?
It's really going to be fascinating to review these comments in about 18 months. I mean, I hope she is right but since the people who actually know stuff are saying otherwise, I doubt it.
Instead of waiting around, you could go look at the data and compare it to the mortality rates--both overall and for flu seasons--for past years.
Why would you think that Boris Johnson contracting the virus is relevant to the discussion?
Not to rub it in or anything, but the MSM has lied to you once again.
No one doubts you like Fox News for your "facts," Vile. Did you believe Hannity when he said the virus was a Democratic and media hoax? And then changed his tune when it wasn't?
Randy, I believe I know how to use the calculator on my desktop.
Randy, how 'bout you? Can you use a calculator? Are you able to google prior years' infection rates and death rates?
Yes, I can indeed use a calculator, and I also know how to google the Armstrong dude you use for "facts."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_A._Armstrong
Another ex-con you're putting your trust in, Vile.
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