I am still very much on the fence when it comes to this topic. With health nuts saying doctors will tell you anything, and vaccines cause side effects. Then you have doctors, saying without them our society is doomed. With the recent outbreak, or what we are told is a recent outbreak of diseases that would have been prevented if parents vaccinated, what do you believe? It is no secret that the media will dramatize anything that is the "hot topic of the month". So what is really going on here?
Why in the world would you believe a bunch of hotheads with nothing but a handful of anecdotal "data" to offer when multiple, long term studies have also been done? Particularly when those hotheads think a time correlation indicates a causal relationship.
There is a difference between knowing something and believing it based on a story from Great Aunt Mabel's second cousin's husbands mother.
Last year 10 children died in California in the worst whooping cough outbreak to sweep the state since 1947. In the first six months of 2011, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recorded 10 measles outbreaks—the largest of which (21 cases) occurred in a Minnesota county, where many children were unvaccinated because of parental concerns about the safety of the standard MMR vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella. At least seven infants in the county who were too young to receive the MMR vaccine were infected.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic … ccination/
This is a tough one. While it's obvious that vaccines have eradicated some pretty nasty diseases, the US, which offers more vaccines (dose-wise) than other nations - has a higher infant mortality rate. Something is a little screwy there.
Vaccines are good. We know that. Can too many be bad? That's what this study addresses:
I would not hesitate to vaccinate an infant today - however - we need to hold Big Pharma accountable as well.
I could care less what either side of the fence has to say. My two oldest have and will continue to be vaccinated and my youngest has not had a shot since 6 months old and won't have another until she is old enough to make decisions for her self. She reacted poorly every time, and to me it simply was not worth the continued pain it would cause her. Is there a possibility that she could catch something? Yes. She could also die every time she moves, goes outside, gets in a car, etc. As her mother I do my best to keep her healthy, feed her healthy foods to keep her body at it's best and protect her from illnesses in that way. Just the same as I protect her from car accidents by driving safe and her wearing a seat belt. Vaccines will not be part of her childhood and neither will any thing else that causes any form of suffering.
Except perhaps, when your children catch one of the diseases for which they haven't been vaccinated.
Diseases that were literally a thing of the past are resurfacing again, specifically and only to the children who don't get vaccinated. Healthy foods will not stop these diseases from finding their victims.
You are correct, but what are the odds of the only child I have that isn't vaccinated getting one of these diseases? I'd bet her odds of getting into a car accident are much higher, yet I continue to let her get in cars.
Yes, the statistics on car accidents and deaths is very high and people still drive every day. However, with driving, you literally cannot prevent all accidents from happening, yet you can prevent the diseases from infecting your child with vaccinations.
Notice that your example isn't valid?
You realize all vaccinations are not 100% effective right? So again they are a precaution that has no guarantee. In case you missed the part in my first post, I am not anti vaccination. I am anti vaccination for MY youngest child.
And, no vaccination is 100% positive children will contract the disease if exposed and the more children who are not vaccinated will only increase the possibility of exposure.
Yes, there are many misconceptions regarding vaccinations, of which you've presented a few already:
http://www.historyofvaccines.org/conten … t-vaccines
AT NO TIME HAVE I SAID I AM AGAINST CHILDREN GETTING VACCINATED!!!!! NOR HAVE I STATED ANYTHING AS FACT, SIMPLY MY OPINION. You are obviously in favor of all children getting vaccinated. Great. But don't assume it's a one size fits all thing. My daughter was admitted to the hospital at 6 months old with an allergic reaction to one of the shots that was mixed in a 4 vaccination at once needle. They couldn't even determine which of the 4 vaccinations she had an allergic reaction to. Why would I risk her life again in a way that she has already showed an intolerance to? Should I kill her while trying to keep her from getting killed by something else? As I said in my original statement, my two oldest children get every vaccination. I am not against vaccinations, I think it is a case by case situation, and in my daughter's case, she will not be vaccinated.
Severe allergic reactions are extremely rare, a child has a better chance to become a billionaire than fall prey to a vaccine. Of course, doctors are well prepared to treat children who get those allergies. Refusing to give a vaccination because you're afraid of an allergic reaction is not valid.
Can you not read? She already had an allergic reaction!!! IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED!! SHE IS ALLERGIC TO ONE OF THE 4 VACCINES GIVEN THAT DAY!! You are arguing with someone for no reason. You just like being argumentative!
Sorry, but that's not a reason to not vaccinate your child against other diseases. The allergic reaction can be dealt with by doctors.
So you believe that even if a child is allergic to the vaccination it should still be given?
Peeples - if I read your posts correctly - you have two older children that you vaccinate regularly? If so - it sounds to be as if you're making a fair decision by not vaccinating the child who has shown a prior allergic reaction.
You know - this is a deeper subject than it appears on the surface. It's been a few years since I last signed the approval form for vaccines, but I clearly remember the clause that warns parents of side effects, including a risk of death.
On the other hand - I'd hate to see the diseases controlled by those vaccines sweeping the planet again.
I think that as long as *most* kids are vaccinated, we as a society are protected. I live in an area that is largely populated by old-order Mennonite that have their own schools and do not vaccinate. Every few years, someone starts talking about the subject that so many unvaccinated kids could put the rest of the community at risk. To my knowledge - that's never happened, but I suppose it's always a risk.
A link to autism seems dubious because kids were getting a batter of thimerosal-based vaccines before the 90s, when autism started rising. But - there has to be some explanation as to why we're seeing skyrocketing rates of autism. Hopefully, someone will figure that out soon.
You're vaccinating 2/3 of your children - and you have a good reason not to vaccinate the third. I see nothing wrong with that.
Correct Howard, I have vaccinated 2 out of 3 of my children and only stopped vaccinating the 3rd when she had a reaction that landed her in the hospital. I agree with the concept of keeping the majority of the population vaccinated. I think the rise in autism has nothing to do with vaccinations, and instead has to do with the fact that society has finally started acknowledging that behavior issues don't always equal a spoiled kid that hasn't had their butt whipped enough. The rise in most mental disorders simply comes from improved science and understanding of the human brain. I may be wrong, after all I happen to have a vaccinated autistic child, but I place the reasoning on his diagnosis as being more aware as a parent instead of his shots.
By this reasoning people contribute to the resurgence of measles, and polio will be next.
If you child just cannot have a specific vaccine that has nothing to do with the risk of anything. So why bring that in at all?
Woah guys. I did not post this because I agree or disagree with anything. I do not have any children, therefore I have not had to make this decision. I was just curious as to why anti vaccines have become a big movement. I was vaccinated (not for chickenpox) as was my husband. And most of our friends. All well, and healthy today. Which is why I was so curious as to what exactly might have started this anti-vaccine movement.
Can't be positive, but it appears that a couple of people put their heads together and found a handful of kids that were vaccinated and later developed autism.
The autism was then blamed on the vaccinations (without reason to do so) and it snowballed out of fear and the growing recognition that autism is not rare. When people become afraid (and they are) reason goes out the window - the result is a huge PR campaign against vaccinations and a resurgence of the old diseases that used to kill and maim so many before vaccines became available.
The polio inoculations of the 50's had DNA from animal cells and have caused the high incidence of cancer in otherwise perfectly healthy baby boomers. See Dr. Tent's You tube video about Auto immune disorders.
The current vaccine mixtures contain preservatives, heavy metals, and substances not even revealed. I am quite convinced that vaccines have caused autism. When you have an innocent population which has more than half of its children developing autism…you have to suspect anything and everything! Why not those inoculations??? Measles, I had. Mumps, I had. Chicken pox, I had. I got stronger by catching these diseases. Its how the body learns to fight off the foreign germs.
You can prevent Whooping Cough by having a well heated home and good nutrition. It can also be treated with antibiotics.
I worked with children with autism and many of the caretakers reported that they witnessed changes AFTER the child was vaccinated. I heard this time and time again, "They looked right at us smiling and cooing, and then after the immunization, a high fever, crying, and diminishing responsiveness ..." They had photos to prove it.
No one wants to listen to these parents, nannies, special needs caretakers or therapists... they remain the unheard. (We don't even need a study, verifiable or not, on rats or primates.)
Yes, vaccinations are vital to the health of the population, but lets give smaller doses at one time. Children do not need to get vaccinated for everything on the same day! Spread it out and make it safer for the more sensitive babies. Every baby body is different in what they can handle. Some childrens' livers cannot filter out all the preservatives and additives. It is the luck of the genetic draw when anyone vaccinates according to standard practice.
You are making a false assumption - that because event A happened after event B that B caused A. It is a false assumption and very rarely turns out to be true.
No one listens to your nurses because they can provide no proof of causality. Only a correlation in time with a small percentage, a correlation that does NOT show causality. And yes, studies ARE needed if you wish to prove something. A handful of anecdotes prove nothing except that people become afraid of nothing at all, and for no reason.
Will smaller doses provide adequate protection? Your proof?
Children do not need to get multiple vaccinations in one day (assuming parents can and will take additional time off work), but neither is there any reason NOT to do it that way.
Which preservatives and additives cannot be filtered out by livers?
You're right it is the luck of the draw, but not from a vaccination - whether autism happens has nothing to do with vaccinations in spite of your claims to the contrary - it is the luck of the draw. You have no evidence whatsoever to indicate the two are connected, only that one sometimes follows the other and that is NOT an indication of causality.
Your proof that animal DNA injected into children causes cancer decades later? And if it is true, what does that have to do with today's vaccinations?
If the terrible substances not even revealed are in vaccines, what makes you think you have any idea that they are there? Because you have decided vaccines cause autism, without any viable study showing a causal relationship? Because there is a time correlation does not mean a causal relationship; swimming pool drownings have gone up as the proliferation of nuclear power plants did. Think nuke plants cause pool drownings?
From the Mayo Clinic (a better source, I fear, than Kathryn Hill):
"Vaccines do not cause autism. Despite much controversy on the topic, researchers haven't found a connection between autism and childhood vaccines. In fact, the original study that ignited the debate years ago has been retracted. Although signs of autism may appear at about the same time children receive certain vaccines — such as the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine — this is simply a coincidence." (http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-livin … t-20048334) Is that your reason for suspicion - the original, retracted study? Or the fear-mongering that is going on now by people without the training OR knowledge to make the claim?
Why not suspect (and eliminate use of) innoculations? Because they save millions of lives yearly world wide, that's why. Suspect all you want, but until proof is found, not a mere correlation in time, leave the vaccination program alone.
I had chicken pox, too, but not polio. Not TB. Not diphtheria. Not tetanus. Not meningitis. I didn't have any of the old killer diseases...because vaccines have virtually eliminated them from modernized countries.
And yes, pertussis can be treated with antibiotics...often in a hospital setting when it has produced pneumonia. Notice that; with antibiotics - antibiotics that have the exact same connection with autism as vaccines do. With holding the vaccine, then, produces a disease requiring a cure with the same risk as the vaccine! And you ask why not give the vaccine?
Interesting that you are sure that vaccines cause autism when the evidence says otherwise and you think it's good to treat the deceases one would get as a result of not vaccination with antibiotic when a link has been found between antibiotics and certain kinds of autism.
Who here thinks we were better off before vaccines?
If their ancestors were some of the survivors that did not get the disease, producing the gametes that now give that opinion, they cannot be using reason to come to it.
Well, good. I would rather believe both of you than listen to all the mothers and caretakers who told me they "suspected" immunizations. Thank you!
You are right there's no proof. But shouldn't we be extra careful? Do closer research and better questioning of the parents whose children do have it?
I have not heard of a link between antibiotic use and Autism!?
See, the onset of autism happens to coincide with immunization. So the moms will tell you that they know the kid got autism from the immunization. However it's has been demonstrated that antibiotics remove all the gut flora and when the child is young enough the proper or normal balance doesn't grow back and some are left with one or two kinds of gut flora that affect the mind in a negative way. Once gut flora has been established it stays. Look it up. Probiotics are essential after a dose of antibiotics.
We ARE extra careful. Multiple studies have been done to investigate the veracity of those unsupported claims; not one has show any truth at all in them. What else can you ask for? To the best of our knowledge, after trying hard to prove the allegations correct, they are totally false. How can we be more careful while still protecting our children?
You haven't heard of a link between antibiotics and autism - neither have I. That's why I say it has exactly the same link as vaccines and autism do. Some infants get antibiotics and eventually develop autism; some get vaccines and eventually develop autism. No causality in either case, but it does happen as a coincidence.
Why would you question the parents who have had their kids develop autism? Do you really think they are capable of showing the vaccines caused the autism, or do they simply say that because A (vaccines) happened first then A caused B (autism)? False conclusion as we all know, so why would we ask parents if vaccines caused autism in their autistic children?
Well, every child who has ever eaten food has developed Autism. Clearly we must do away with this "food" nonsense!
OMG, you're right! To include both bottle and breast milk; this will be a massive blow to the breast-feeding crowd, but when you think that every child with autism has drunk milk prior to the autism, it must be done.
And with breast feeding on the rise, we see a corresponding rise in autism. A clear causality chain and definite proof. We must be extra careful and make more studies before allowing that breast out of it's coverings!
Well, I am now QUITE sure that it is cellphone use and excessive electro magnetic radiation in the environment!… Come on guys it has to be something UNNATURAL!
Not cellphones - infants don't use them and mama's phone plastered to her ear is too far from the ovaries to mutate them.
Radiation, though - that's entirely possible. We need to double the Van Allen belts and keep solar radiation away from our kids. Or would the magnetism there cause more autism?
"Do closer research and better questioning of the parents whose children do have it."
As in research… diet, drug use history, lifestyle/ environmental influences…Questionnaires of some sort… It is hard to follow the human population… Are questionnaires politically or morally incorrect ? Too nosey? I guess so.
I think we'd all love to see more research into the causes of autism - one day we might be able to curtail it if it's not simple genetics (and it doesn't seem that it is).
But that research has nothing to do with vaccines - that possible correlation has been exhaustively studied and the results are in. Whether you like them or not, whether you believe them or not, whether you ignore them or not, the results are in and the conclusion is negative - no link between vaccines and autism.
Ignorance, denial, rejection of facts and evidence from the religious right who operate on irrational beliefs systems instead of reality.
Oh, look. It's this topic again. And I get to post this again:
To be serious, let's just briefly assume that yes, the world has gone mad and vaccinations cause autism. Let's just say that that really is a thing, just for a moment. Consider this:
Would you rather your child be autistic, or would you rather they be stricken with polio, diptheria, smallpox, or any number of horrific microbial abominations that vaccinations would have protected them from?
Not a fair question. Not fair. How did mankind get along without vaccines?
1796 First vaccine for smallpox (the first vaccine ever developed)
1879 First vaccine for cholera
1885 First vaccine for rabies by Louis Pasteur and Émile Roux
1890 First vaccine for tetanus
1896 First vaccine for typhoid fever
1897 First vaccine for bubonic plague
1921 First vaccine for diphtheria
1925 First vaccine for tuberculosis
1926 First vaccine for scarlet fever
1927 First vaccine for pertussis (whooping cough)
1932 First vaccine for yellow fever
1937 First vaccine for typhus
1945 First vaccine for influenza
1952 First vaccine for polio by Jonas Salk
1954 First vaccine for Japanese encephalitis
1954 First vaccine for anthrax
1957 First vaccine for adenovirus-4 and 7
1962 First oral polio vaccine
1963 First vaccine for measles
1967 First vaccine for mumps
1970 First vaccine for rubella
1974 First vaccine for chicken pox
1977 First vaccine for pneumonia (Streptococcus pneumoniae)
1978 First vaccine for meningitis (Neisseria meningitidis)
1981 First vaccine for hepatitis B (first vaccine to target a cause of cancer)
1985 First vaccine for Haemophilus influenzae type b (HiB)
1992 First vaccine for hepatitis A
1998 First vaccine for Lyme disease
1998 First vaccine for rotavirus
2003 First nasal influenza vaccine approved in U.S. (FluMist)
2006 First vaccine for human papillomavirus (which is a cause of cervical cancer)
2012 First quadrivalent (4-strain) influenza vaccine
2013 First vaccine for enterovirus 71, one cause of hand foot mouth disease
(I wonder how my son came down with Scarlet Fever at age 7? He had all the prescribed vaccinations!) He fought it off just fine, BTW!
My grandmother didn't (fight it off) - crippled for life by polio she had a very tough time of it. The highlight of her childhood was getting a horse so she could get to school, several miles away - you see, she couldn't walk and had to scoot about on her butt.
Polio - very nearly wiped out in this country, but making a come back as we quit vaccinating against it.
I don't believe children are vaccinated against scarlet fever - at least mine weren't. My father was, in the army when he went overseas, but the kids weren't. Was yours, or are you making a case for greatly expanding the vaccination program?
The best type of vaccination would be very expensive: unpreserved and unadulterated with weird substances. I would approve of that.
You are right; I guess Scarlet Fever had become a non-issue. My mother was so surprised when my son got it.
by sannyasinman 6 years ago
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