Measles Outbreak: A Subject Both Libs and Conservatives Can Support

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  1. crankalicious profile image91
    crankaliciousposted 7 months ago

    We're seeing measles outbreaks in both Washington and New York.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/30/health/m … index.html

    Perhaps we could get some political agreement, since there's so much argument in these forums. I contend that people who don't get vaccinated for Measles (and pretty much all other vaccinations), unless they have a very specific medical reason, like they're getting chemotherapy, are idiots.

    So, to be clear: people who don't get their kids vaccinated for Measles are idiots. Morons. And beyond that, should be sued for endangering public health. They should be financially libel for the damage they cause.

    Both liberals and conservatives are part of this idiot group that don't get vaccinated. Anti-vaxxers are from both political persuasions.

    1. MizBejabbers profile image89
      MizBejabbersposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      I agree with you. Personal freedom today takes precedence over responsibility to society, and idiots, as you call them, are allowed to endanger public health. This is one area in which I wish we could go back to the "good old days" of required vaccinations to be able to attend school. At one time schools required proof of vaccinations for childhood diseases before the child was allowed to be enrolled. State law allowed for certain religious exceptions, but you had to prove that your family was a practicing member of one of the accepted denominations such as Christian Science, or provide a valid signed medical statement that the vaccination itself endangered the child's life.

      Most of us who went through any of the childhood diseases have enough sense to not want our kids to suffer them. I say "any" because somehow I had a natural immunity to mumps and chicken pox and escaped them, but my siblings did not. Measles, mumps, etc. are bad enough, but nobody in his right mind would leave his child susceptible to polio. Especially not after seeing her little friend in an iron lung for months, and then watching her weak little legs as she stumbled around on crutches! But today younger generations wrongly believe that these diseases have been wiped out, but all it takes is for one unvaccinated family to visit an area in which they still exist to bring them back to life. This is what is happening today, all because in 1998 The Lancet irresponsibly published a report of a flawed study by Dr. Andrew Wakefield, a British surgeon and researcher. We can only guess that the doctor was out to make a name for himself, but he accomplished nothing but looking foolish and bringing back dreaded childhood diseases by arrogant, skittish parents. One man's paper, unbelievable, but foolish people believed him without validating his falsehood or waiting to see if it were true.

      https://www.medicaldaily.com/history-au … ons-294474

      Personal freedom has eclipsed responsibility to society. I really hate to see the suffering that my peers and siblings went through being revived. I don't recall of ever hearing of a case of autism until I was well into adulthood and my own vaccinated children were grown. Please, people, get real!

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

        My grandmother suffered from TB as a child.  She was in her teens before she got a horse and could finally go to school; it was much later that the family could afford to see a doctor and get the leg braces and special footwear that finally allowed her to walk.  Poorly, but walk.

        Sure, let's bring back all these old diseases that we've conquered in this country, all in the name of personal freedom to risk our children.

        1. MizBejabbers profile image89
          MizBejabbersposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          That doesn't sound like TB, are you sure you don't mean polio? With TB the victim was usually put away in a sanatorium for months or years until he or she improved. I've known several people to whom that happened, including a neighbor and a family member.
          It was the description of her waiting for leg braces that caused me to ask. Both my husband and I had light cases of polio when we were children. We lived about 40 miles apart but didn't know each other then. Neither of us needed braces, but it left me walking with a heavy gait that to this day, I'm sometimes teased about. I'm not crippled; I just walk heavily. He and I both developed hip problems at an early age.

        2. crankalicious profile image91
          crankaliciousposted 7 months agoin reply to this

          Wilderness, so where do you think this personal freedom for vaccines is coming from? Usually "personal freedom" is more of a conservative concept, but in this case, it's also coming from liberals who think that anybody should be able to do whatever they want whenever they want no matter how it affects others. Perhaps it's an extension of being able to decide what is put in one's own body, which tends to be played up more in liberal politics. Seems like this is not a political issue and more of an issue for a particular social set.

          I live in a very liberal town and we have low vaccination rates for Whooping Cough.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

            It comes from fear and from a decision that the individual can coast on the shirt tails of the rest of society rather than taking personal responsibility to do their part in protecting the whole.

            1. crankalicious profile image91
              crankaliciousposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              So it comes from the thought that the individual doesn't have a responsibility to the rest of society, right? Or that my personal needs and/or fears are more important than the needs of the whole.

            2. crankalicious profile image91
              crankaliciousposted 7 months agoin reply to this

              I also think a lot of people think vaccines are dangerous. They actually do the calculus and come up with the answer that getting the shot is more dangerous than getting the disease.

              People just can't do math and risk assessment.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                " I also think a lot of people think vaccines are dangerous."

                Yes, that's the fear part.  And they may be right in that the vaccine produces a higher chance of getting the disease than not being vaccinated.

                But if true it is true BECAUSE everyone else is getting that vaccination and taking the risk.  If no one did, it would reverse and the chances of the disease would far, far outweigh the risks of vaccination.  It doesn't take much math (but probably more that and anti-vaxers are capable of) to figure that out.

                1. MizBejabbers profile image89
                  MizBejabbersposted 7 months agoin reply to this

                  At one time the flu vaccines were produced from live viruses, but that hasn't been so for years. We older folks remember the reaction being nearly as bad as the disease, but a bad reaction rarely happens anymore. People remember this and fear the flu vaccine. I do know one lady who can't take a flu vaccine because she is allergic to eggs, but a valid reason like that is very rare. The link of childhood vaccines to autism really was "fake news" that too many people believe. I believe you are right about the idea of personal responsibility not being important anymore.

                  Some people remember the shots as being painful, but they aren't nearly as painful as they used to be.

    2. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
      Kathryn L Hillposted 7 months agoin reply to this
  2. Glenis Rix profile image96
    Glenis Rixposted 7 months ago

    I agree. The same goes for the annual flu jab. Flu epidemics have killed more people than measles and small children plus oldies like me are particularly susceptible. And yet I read in the news that a high percentage of staff employed in the health services don’t get vaccinated. It ought to be mandatory for this group.

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      Interesting.  What I read, and hear from the many hospital workers in my extended family, is that flu vaccinations are a requirement for employment.  Some have no problem with it, some scream to the skies about being required to get one, but they all get it if they wish to continue to work at their job.

      Wonder which is correct?  Or more correct, for I'm sure that something less than 100% of hospitals have that requirement, and some likely request but do not require it.

    2. crankalicious profile image91
      crankaliciousposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      You are absolutely correct. The flu is deadly. While the vaccine doesn't always work, perhaps it should be mandatory? Given the amount of work days businesses and government lose to people contracting the flu, it makes sense that people should be getting the shot.

  3. theraggededge profile image99
    theraggededgeposted 7 months ago

    I would never put an MMR vaccination in either of my younger kids. Call me what you like. Vaxxers always think that it's okay to insult people who don't agree with them.

    And herd immunity by vaccination is codswallop. It's not possible. You have to have 98% of the total population vaccinated. That's the total population, not just kids. From 100 down to 1 day old.

    In any case, if your kid is vaccinated, you have nothing to worry about. If your child has a compromised immune system, then you have to take extra care and make sure s/he only socializes with vaccinated kids.

    And... if you are looking for a reason, my eldest had the measles vaccination and had a horrible reaction to it. Lasted for six months. Complete personality change and a painful lump the size of a walnut on his thigh.

    And it seems that the US government also thinks that vaccines are dangerous:

    "As of March 30, 2018, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program had paid $106.5 million (THIS YEAR) for 283 claims since the beginning of the 2018 fiscal year. Drugwatch’s legal partners are accepting vaccine injury cases.

    Since 1988, over 18,426 petitions have been filed with the VICP. Over that 29-year time period, 16,555 petitions have been adjudicated, with 5,581 of those determined to be compensate-able, while 10,974 were dismissed. Keep in mind the CDC estimates that only about 10% of adverse events are reported. Total compensation paid over the life of the vaccine injury compensation program is approximately $3.7 billion."

    1. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
      Kathryn L Hillposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      wow!

    2. Sheila Ann Myers profile image83
      Sheila Ann Myersposted 8 days agoin reply to this

      I don't vaccinate my kids at all. I did vaccinate my okder two when they were little because I didn't know any better and they both had severe resperatory problems, ear infections and were sick constantly.. My two year old hasn't had any of that! He is the healthiest of my three kids. I personally know 3 families who have a child who became permenantly disabled from vaccinations. People need to do their research and stop believing the mainstream b.s. who are in cahoots with the pharmaceutical companies.

      1. Live to Learn profile image83
        Live to Learnposted 8 days agoin reply to this

        That's your choice as a parent. My son came along about the time this debate started gaining momentum. I bought into it, briefly. Until I saw the illnesses in full force on documentaries. I suppose, allowing the herd to take all the risks so your kid may be safe makes sense to you. It seems a little selfish, though.

        1. Sheila Ann Myers profile image83
          Sheila Ann Myersposted 8 days agoin reply to this

          You can always find a documentary that favors your opinion, but I am talking about real life situations that I have witnessed. We're not talking about cattle, were talking about children and the "herd" isn't at risk because my children aren't sick.

          1. Live to Learn profile image83
            Live to Learnposted 8 days agoin reply to this

            The herd isn't at risk because they are vaccinated. Your kid is healthy partly because he isn't being exposed to unvaccinated children who carry those diseases.

            1. wilderness profile image95
              wildernessposted 7 days agoin reply to this

              With the proliferation of travel outside the US it is almost inevitable that child WILL be exposed sometime in the future.  All those measles cases being reported did not happen because of the lack of exposure to the disease.

            2. Sheila Ann Myers profile image83
              Sheila Ann Myersposted 21 hours agoin reply to this

              There are a lot of kids who are not vaccinated who my children are around every day.... We are all healthy and doing just fine... And we don't have to worry about our kids getting brain damage from vaccinations.

          2. Aime F profile image83
            Aime Fposted 8 days agoin reply to this

            “Real life situations that I have witnessed” is called anecdotal evidence and there’s a reason it holds absolutely no weight in a discussion about science.

            You’re certainly entitled to your opinion but let’s not pretend it holds a candle to actual scientific research that supports the safety and efficacy of vaccines.

            1. Sheila Ann Myers profile image83
              Sheila Ann Myersposted 21 hours agoin reply to this

              There is a lot of evidence of children being harmed from vaccines.. The government doesn't let that evidence get out to the public because they have an agenda. Believe what you want, and yes, I am entitled to my own opinion, as are you.

              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 20 hours agoin reply to this

                You are indeed entitled to those opinions.  We all are.  Right up to the point that they harm others, which is where the anti-vaxxers find themselves.  It's much like the drunk that knows he can still drive (drunk) better than the average driver because he's done it a hundred times without an accident.  And he has a friend that does the same thing.

                1. Sheila Ann Myers profile image83
                  Sheila Ann Myersposted 20 hours agoin reply to this

                  I find it strange that you would compare my keeping my child safe from harmful chemicals to a drunk driver... That comparison makes absolutely no sense whatsoever... Refusal to let the government inject my children with harmful chemicals that could permanently handicap them or even kill them, is actually just plain being a decent parent. Drunk driving is... Well,  it's just drunk driving.

                  1. Aime F profile image83
                    Aime Fposted 20 hours agoin reply to this

                    And what happens when everyone else decides to be a “decent parent” and the diseases we currently vaccinate against start killing children again? The only reason you’re able to sit there and inform yourself with alternative facts and create yourself this special narrative is because the rest of us are protecting your kids.

                  2. wilderness profile image95
                    wildernessposted 20 hours agoin reply to this

                    Except I made no such comparison.  I made a comparison to your lack of actual research, using a few anecdotal experiences, to the drunk driver doing the same thing.

                    Refusing to protect your child from diseases that disfigure and kill, based on nothing but someone saying there was a time correlation between a vaccine and noticing autsim, is about the same as a drunk saying "See I got home fine - I can always do it!".

                    (I don't see any actual figures and statistics showing vaccines cause more harm than the diseases.  Or any harm at all, for that matter.)

            2. Sheila Ann Myers profile image83
              Sheila Ann Myersposted 19 hours agoin reply to this

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              Vaccines Injuries and Deaths Increase in Government Vaccine Court – June 2016 Report
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              Vaccine-Injuries-and-Deaths-Report-June-2016

              by Brian Shilhavy
              Health Impact News Editor

              Every day, people in the United States are being injured and killed by vaccines, and those numbers are increasing. This is a fact that is not in dispute, as the Department of Justice’s quarterly report on vaccine injuries and deaths clearly demonstrates.

              And yet, the government’s official public statement about vaccines is that they are safe and effective, and should be mandated for all people. Any opinion or presentation of facts to contradict their position is vigorously suppressed and censored in the mainstream media all in the name of “public health” for the “greater good.”

              The American public is largely unaware that there is a vaccine court known as the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP). This program was started as a result of a law passed in 1986 that gave pharmaceutical companies total legal immunity from being sued due to injuries and deaths resulting from vaccines. If you or a family member is injured or dies from vaccines, you must now sue the federal government in this special vaccine court. Many cases are litigated for years before a settlement is reached.

              Once every 3 months the Advisory Commission on Childhood Vaccines meets, and the Department of Justice issues a report of cases settled for vaccine injuries and deaths. As far as I know, Health Impact News is the only media source that publishes these reports each quarter. Past reports can be found here.

              The most recent report was issued on June 3, 2016 which covered the period from 2/16/16 to 5/15/16 had 206 cases adjudicated. 116 of them were listed in the report (see below), specifying the vaccine, the injury or death, and the amount of time the case was pending before settlement.

              85 of the 116 cases settled were for injuries and deaths due to the flu vaccine, making the flu vaccine the most dangerous vaccine in the U.S., harming and killing more people than all the other vaccines put together.

              Page-1-june-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-2-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-3-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-4-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-5-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-6-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-7-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-8-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-9-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-10-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-11-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-ReportPage-12-6-2016-DOJ-Vaccine-Injuries-Deaths-Report
              View the full report here.

              Public Largely Unaware of the Vaccine Court: Most Cases Never Litigated
              the-vaccine-court

              In November of 2014 the Government Accounting Office (GAO) issued the first report on America’s “Vaccine Court,” known as the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP), in almost 15 years. Most citizens of the United States are not even aware that there is something called the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, and that if you suffer harm or death due to a vaccine, that you cannot sue the manufacturer of the vaccine, but you must sue the federal government and try to obtain compensation from the Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund,which is funded by taxes paid on vaccines. The amount of money currently sitting in this trust fund is over $3.6 BILLION, as of September 30, 2015.

              As I noted above, Congress gave the pharmaceutical companies immunity against lawsuits for injuries or deaths resulting in vaccines in 1986. Prior to this time, there were so many lawsuits pending against pharmaceutical companies for injuries and deaths due to vaccines, that the pharmaceutical industry basically blackmailed congress and told them that if they did not grant them legal immunity against the liabilities of vaccines, that they would quit making them. These vaccine products cannot survive in a free market, they are so bad.

              The November 2014 GAO report criticized the government for not making the public more aware that the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program exists, and that there are funds available for vaccine injuries. Therefore, the settlements represented by vaccine injuries and deaths included in the DOJ report probably represent a small fraction of the actual vaccine injuries and deaths occurring in America today.

              Vaccine Injuries are Seldom Reported
              The U.S. government keeps a database of reports documenting vaccine injuries and deaths called The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). The problem is that very few medical officials ever report vaccine injuries or deaths, either because they are not trained to recognize them, or due to pressure within their profession to not report them. To admit that vaccines do cause harm is professional suicide for most doctors and medical professionals.

              Hence, the quarterly DOJ report on vaccine cases only represents a tiny fraction of the actual cases that exist.

              One place we can get a glimpse of the amount of vaccine harm that is being caused in the U.S. today is to look at emergency room visits. As one can see in the report above, with most of the settlements being cases of harm caused by the flu vaccine, Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) is the most common injury suffered from the flu shot. GBS is a debilitating disease that attacks a person’s own immune system and damages their nerve cells, causing muscle weakness and sometimes paralysis. It is very similar to the symptoms one may see with polio.

              If you are taken to the emergency room with signs of GBS during flu season, chances are one of the first questions the doctors will ask you is if you have received the flu shot recently. GBS is also listed as a side effect of the flu shot in the package insert.

  4. Glenis Rix profile image96
    Glenis Rixposted 7 months ago
    1. theraggededge profile image99
      theraggededgeposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      Yeah.. and I don't vaccinate my dogs either.

  5. Live to Learn profile image83
    Live to Learnposted 7 months ago

    When my son was little, anti vaxers were prevalent. They had me scared, but watching a video of kids who had preventable diseases cured my fear. Those against should look at what can happen if they choose not to vaccinate.

  6. RTalloni profile image89
    RTalloniposted 7 months ago

    Washington state, a gateway for the world to pass through (and settle) in the USA via both a southern border in California and its northern Canadian border, not to mention Sea-Tac, requires that all schools require vaccinations. A state emergency has been declared. Many of those measles cases are attributed to anti-vaxers and there is national concern over the outbreak. 

    Many anti-vaxers there use the religious exemption, but most of the time it is personal preference. Some also have children's parties for the purpose of spreading the specific diseases, which is first mind-boggling, then enraging. They were protected from these diseases by vaccinations but are forcing their children to suffer through the dangerous diseases, not to mention putting others at risk? 

    Reports indicate that safety concerns about the vaccines are the main reasons parents hesitate to vaccinate. The truth is, there are real concerns and we should have ongoing discussions. The medical community should watchdog drug companies because error by manufacturers is a valid concern, though perhaps not as big a concern as some purport, after all, they do want to stay in business. We need to consistently weigh the issues carefully.

    Sharing information on people's experiences with these diseases serves to open some eyes, for instance, Death of Olivia at roalddahl.com , but willfully subjecting children to them rather than studying useful information has provoked some teens to fact check their anti-vaxer parents reasons for refusing vaccinations. Where this will lead has pros and cons and will certainly be interesting to watch.

  7. Kathryn L Hill profile image80
    Kathryn L Hillposted 7 months ago

    Getting measles and fighting it off is good for the immune system and future generations. We were designed to get the measles and fight it off. If you get the measles as a kid you have immunity for life. Not so much if you get vaccinated.

    But let it happen naturally. Don't have parties to induce it.

    1. MizBejabbers profile image89
      MizBejabbersposted 7 months agoin reply to this

      What turnip truck did you fall off of? (dangling participle intended) It may make the immune system stronger against those diseases, but those "harmless" diseases cause blindness and deafness in some children and mumps can cause sterility in an adult, but that's ok as long as they don't get autism from a vaccination. Many a child may not go blind, but will have his or her eyes weakened and require strong correction for the rest of his or her life. But hey! that's good for the optical industry, right? The hearing impaired kid can get hearing aids, and the sterile adult can go adopt a couple of those children pro-lifers advocate must be born regardless of survival potential. Oops, I forgot, there aren't enough of them to go around so U.S. citizens are having to go to overpopulated foreign countries to adopt them. So yeah, getting those diseases is good for society...if you are filled with corporate greed and are otherwise self-serving.

    2. Sheila Ann Myers profile image83
      Sheila Ann Myersposted 8 days agoin reply to this

      Exactly Kathryn!!!!

 
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