Are alternative medicines / New Age Medicines ethical?

1. 43

   Mikeydoesposted 13 years ago

   Geez I keep adding stuff and adding stuff, if you can read this God bless you.
   
   Well some people know, but many do not. I was nearly banned. Cancer was a part of my life(I have never had cancer, just to be clear) when I was young and it continues to be to this day with my great aunt.
   
   I was just about to go to work in the morning, when I somehow came across a hub(hub hopping I think) about how this guy that claims he CAN 100% cure cancer with a special tincture, and along with many other outrageous claims. I am not sure if it was was the actual guy or someone else however.. Anyways when I read that I SNAPPED in my head for a second. Boy was I anrgy
   
   In my mind at that exact moment I pictured a poor young boy with cancer bald, sick, frail (more specifically a friend when I was 11 he 9, possibly younger), and this "Doctor" standing right next to him with a big fat smile on his face. Telling him its okay buddy "I'll cure your cancer." Knowing full well his method in no way is sanctioned by doctors or anyone for that matter.
   
   So lets give these people false hope and endanger their lives AND charge them money for it....  With these thoughts heavy on my mind I lost my cool...
   
   "I am completely and utterly disgusted that you would give people false hope for your own profits. Sickening. You are killing people off for your own gain. I would punch you right in the face if I saw you sir."
   
   Honestly I completely forgot about it, seconds after. The point I was trying to make was, it IS NOT OKAY to claim to cure cancer. Hubpages is an EXTREMELY powerful tool, people with cancer or who will eventually get cancer WILL read it. And if ONE person reads that and believes it, and ends up getting cancer... guess what? THEY CAN DIE. Depending on the cancer, DEATH CAN BE PREVENTED. To me this is in no way ethical. On top of that, they are charging these people money!
   
   Believe me I'm grinding my teeth right now just thinking about that. And there is no reason everyone shouldn't be a little PO'd.
   
   Alternative medicines and new age medicines can be a saint to some, but if it isn't practiced by respected doctors, it is not a cure. Many of these methods are great for relaxation, but it is a proven fact that you can use a plunger rather than needles(for acupuncture) and get the same results.
   
   Many people who are told they are going to die turn to alternative medicines. Like it is their only hope... ABSOLUTELY NOT! If a doctor is not enthusiastic about you living, FIND A NEW DOCTOR!! PLEASE!!! People have lived by switching doctors, had they turned to this guy's methods that could have easily died!
   
   That being said: after having an uncle and a childhood friend die of cancer. It really is a subject that hits home to me, having someone die of cancer, especially at that young of an age, can really affect someone. Apparently it affects me greatly.
   
   Hubpages wrote me an email saying that do not tolerate it threatening other members. And I told them I apologize for being in the wrong for what I said. He also wanted my info to report me to the police. HAHAHA.
   
   Maybe I shouldn't have said I want to punch him in the face, because I really did want to(at that exact moment, which is okay, because I didn't do it). In no way am I going to go looking for this guy either, its pretty obvious that was not my intentions. Just like I would have wanted to punch Hitler in the face. Or someone who murdered someone or raped someone. I would want to punch them in the face as well. Have I ever punched any of these people? No, but lets put it this way, if someone in my family got raped or messed with wouldn't you want to punch that guy in the face as well? Key word, want to. This guy can loosely be called a murderer. In my books he is one.
   
   Total number of people Mikeydoes has punched in the face - 0
   
   Total number who's lives Mikeydoes might have potentially save - ???
   
   I have had several success stories about women I know with cancer ALL WHO prevailed due to chemotherapy. If these women were to get their information from this guy AND I QUOTE
   It's an OUTRAGE—
   Chemo Drugs and Radiation are POISON!
   
   That is just one of the many sickening things this guy claims taken directly from here
   http://www.thedoctorwhocurescancer.com/
   
   I let my emotions get the best of me, and for that I am extremely sorry. It is obvious I had no real intention to punch him in the face. But this guy has 400 followers(which turns my stomach). With 400 followers it makes him seem that must more trustworthy among all the comments he gets.
   
   He threatened to call the police on me, I really should be doing that to him.
   
   I mean for God's sake read this.
   
   HOW TO MAKE YOUR LIFESAVING TINCTURE:
   
   Making an herbal tincture is really, really easy.
   
   You need three things to make the tincture:
   
   Habaneros peppers, enough to fill your blender
   Garlic cloves, one or two bulbs
   Cheap vodka or brandy, or Apple Cider Vinegar with "the mother" (cloudy stuff at bottom)
   
   Nothing justifies that comment as it isn't allowed at hubpages. And for that I am overwhelmingly sorry. All this was going to be was my little piece of mind to just one guy, but I guess he wanted it public. Probably good for his sales.
   
   end rant
   
   Okay well am I way off base? I may not have done things the right way, but to me he is taking people's lives in his hands and in many cases threatening their lives. And its not just him, there are plenty of people who claim healing powers. Of course doctors aren't going to save every life, that is a given. If you are serious about living, It is important to find the best doctor, period.
   
   Having this guy with his arms wide open waving, hey come over here! Buy my book read it, it is easy to see why doctors are noo good, look how many people have died from cancer! They went to doctors and died, so forget that come here. I cure cancer, as you can see on my hubpages, there are no traces of death on here. Obviously it works, come on and buy it. No need for a doctor.
   
   Assuming it is a curable cancer, this person will die if not properly treated.
   
   It can't get any more unethical than this in my opinion. If I am wrong please tell me, because, I am convincing myself more and more and just getting myself more upset at this guy. Luckily this is only on my mind when I am on the computer.
   
   Once again I made like 30 different paragraphs and stuck them everyone, like a normally do. Sorry for that as well.

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2. 83

   Jewelsposted 13 years ago

   You have to define more what you mean by alternative medicines.  Void of the voodoo of witch doctors preying on the gullible and desperate, and who I find abhorant, there are many alternative and successful treatments for cancer. 
   
   Depends on what cancer you are talking about.  At what stage it is etc. etc. etc. etc.
   
   I personally would seek alternative treatment over conventional medicine.  The reason being that of those I've spoken to who have undergone chemotherapy and/or radiation treatment all say they would not do it again.  But having said that - they are alive to say that, but the cost was high.  Every person who underwent conventional therapy are now seeing a naturopath to clean up what's left of their health.
   
   I also have friends in the conventional medical profession who are looking to get out, or have left because they don't like the direction it has taken - ie the big pharmaceutical companies and the lack of real caring that is needed to cater for human health.
   
   I don't for a minute believe placing crystals over your chakras will cure cancer.  Is this what you mean by New Age?
   
   It is becoming more widely accepted in the mainstream medical industry that meditation is a helpful tool for many who are ill.  However, as a wise guru would also tell you - meditation alone does not cure your ills. But a more holistic approach is always a good direction to take if you want a balanced healthy life.
   
   Eating McDonalds and drinking Coke and then expecting the medical profession to fix your diabetes - that's not a good way of thinking.  A more holistic approach would work - don't eat McDonalds, don't drink coke or sodas.  Eat more fresh vegies and fruit etc.  Get plenty of exercise and rest.  Make sure you have sufficient minerals in your body.  Learn to know how to tell if you have sufficient sustenance also is a good move.  Take care of stress - learn to relax without getting drunk - that's intelligent.   This by definition is holistic.
   
   I have to ask - Is treating every illness known to man, be that physical or psychological, using synthetic drugs ethical? 
   
   Ethics in this world is going down the toilet.
   
   Please don't punch me in the face

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   1. 70

      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Nicely said Jewels.

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3. 63

   Lisa HWposted 13 years ago

   Mikey, most people have a button (or two or three or six) that, when pushed, sends them to the "edge".  I won't say "over the edge" because I, personally, don't see saying, "I feel like..." as at all the same as "I'm going to find you and ...."  (or even, "I'm going make sure your online reputation is destroyed").  One might even wonder if the individual in question clearly knew you weren't really threatening but didn't like your candor and decided to give you as a hard a time about it as possible (in other words, capitalize on your reaction).
   
   Then, too, the individual may be someone who doesn't have a lot of connection to other Hubbers in the community, who posted the Hub to sell the book, and just isn't tuned into how heated some discussions can get on here. I suppose you can't blame the individual taking the comment more seriously than, maybe, it should have been. 
   
   I've had people push buttons over things that are of far less importance than something like cancer (far, far, far, less).    I haven't been pushed to expressing the feeling of wanting to punch someone (), but I've got my share of over-the-top, long-winded, rants that are full of remarks that I hope will make the person feel really, really, small.
   
   When I get pushed into that kind of thing, the only way I let myself just forget it (and hope other people understand) is to remind myself that what pushes buttons for a lot of us is very often tied to our wish to stand up for someone else, or to protect someone else, who is more vulnerable.  Once in a while, if I feel personally attacked and am in the mood, I'll "go close to that edge" on my own behalf, but it isn't usually what sets me off.  Anyway, the thing that helps me get past any embarrassment I feel for having "run a little wild" is always the hope, and belief, that most people see what can get someone going, know it's often a matter of wanting to stand up for someone else, and understand that sometimes buttons get pushed.  Maybe I give people more credit for understanding than they deserve, but I don't think so (at least not when it comes to those people who mentally balanced grown-ups).   
   
   I think most people on here (especially if you look at that forum thread that mentions the "punching thing"  ( ) pretty much had a good idea about the kind of thing that probably led to that "punching remark".  I think the whole comment incident is something that has already blown over for the most part.  (Of course, anyone would be wise not to use words like "punch" in the future.    ).
   
   I guess I thought it was worth replying here, not just to acknowledge the thread you put so much into, but because "unfortunate verbal incidents" are so common on here (and other Internet sites); but also because, even though I've not yet been pushed to say anything that even remotely implied any kind of threat, boy oh boy, am I ever guilty of not being able to "just ignore it" and, instead, going into a "I-need-to-verbally-smack-this-person mode".
   
   It isn't at all that I'm implying that a non-tolerance (for even hints of violence) policy on a site like this isn't a good thing; but so often, some things do just get taken far more seriously than would be warranted.  I know there has to be a policy, and I know that when faced with a complaint the HP team has to act in accordance with that policy.  I'm not second-guessing any of that.  It's just that I think a discussion, about some of the very benevolent/benign motivations that can be behind some "losing-of-cool" online, wouldn't be a bad thing.
   
   Glad you weren't banned over the incident; and judging by the support for you people showed on another thread somewhere, I'm guessing a lot of other people are glad you weren't banned too.

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4. 76

   sunforgedposted 13 years ago

   Hey Mikey! Im almost in complete agreement. Your comment seems pretty tame to me, but I guess, I just must have used the internet for more than 5 minutes
   
   I do think there is way more validity in the power of the body to cure itself than you seem to be acknowledging .. and peppers, garlic, vinegar are all strong immune boosters - so i dont think the entire practice of homeopathic/naturopathic medicine shouldnt be frowned upon because of one bad "messenger"
   
   But the specific messenger is vile in my book - I did a quick glance down his link line and he is very accomplished marketer who is using every trick in the book, squeeze pages, exit pop ups , copywriting appeals etc etc. Such tripe should be booted straight out of HP under the "dubious products" line of the TOS
   
   Ill repost my feelings about that fellow here in my support of your reaction. (youll see that most understood the difference between a threat and strong language http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/68172  .. but hey, some people have to wear velcro shoes, have to be careful not to offend i guess)
   
   
   
   
   and this particular author has been called out many times for his dubious marketing practices:
   
   (calls himself a doctor here) http://cancerfighter.wordpress.com/2008 … pper-cure/
   
   
   
   
   but careful reviewers have noticed the same dubious and slick marketing practices that i have
   
   http://www.amazon.com/review/RVGQ4JWS8K … ;linkCode=
   
   
   Hal licino - former prolific hub author chose to take the time to write this "dangerous medical quackery hubs should be deleted"  http://hubpages.com/hub/Dangerous-Medic … Be-Deleted
   
   
   http://hubpages.com/hub/An-Open-Letter- … n-HubPages
   
   (Hal never pulls any punches and Ive rarely agreed before but these are some great rants)
   
   I think you will find that many people would very much agree with you Mikey .. but its not the message thats the problem, that should be clear - traditional western medicine has lots of flaws, big ones and from what I gather this guys book at least points that stuff out - and homeopathic meds have a place - this authors decision to use devious and manipulative marketing practices suggests that marketing and moneymaking is more important than healing ... its clear to me at least

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5. 76

   sunforgedposted 13 years ago

   Since the author chose to make a ridiculous stink and post threads and contact HP over a benign comment that should at worst just been deleted and forgotten ...
   
   
   http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/microsites/c … ndex.shtml
   
   Making false claims about cancer cures is one of the pet peeves of the FTC
   
   You will see a nice "file a complaint " link
   
   https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/
   
   
   
   
   hosting these kind of hubs is actually equally as dangerous as spam or adsense iffy content

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6. 43

   Mikeydoesposted 13 years ago

   I don't have much time this morning so I breezed through this, I can't wait to check out everything when I get home.
   
   Interesting points Sunforged. It is obvious I am no doctor and I am sure that pepper and those other things CAN boost your immune system. I've never heard of anyone going to any of these methods, so I can't say it does not work. I eat those things every day, so at least I got that going for me.
   
   TY Lisa, well said. Certainly bring valid points there!
   
   Jewels!!! Punching people in the face is in my past, you lucked out this time! You have very valid points. I am currently unaware of any alternative medicines or new age medicines that I would turn to to cure my ailments. I would love to hear about some, I just personally have done some research and found a lot of negative feedback. Especially on certain methods, which would be obvious to even you. Andy Kaufman at the end of Man on the Moon went to a miracle healer, only to be extremely disappointed, which was another thought that popped in my head during that comment.
   
   So assuming you are right and there are certain methods, there are still many out there that are no good. These are the methods that I am no doubt talking about. At this point I'd still say 95-99% of these methods and medicines are bull. But hey I would love to be proved wrong with peer reviewed papers and doctors. I can't just take people's words for it on the internet, if you know what I mean.
   
   Penn and Teller have episodes on both new age and alternative medicines. They usually do a good job, check it out if it interests you. This is part one of alternative medicines.
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qkXR9mflOo
   
   Thanks for your responses.

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7. 65

   Flightkeeperposted 13 years ago

   I think a lot of traditional treatments for cancer have worked but they can have huge side effects.  There are certain alternative therapies that have worked.  Definitely keep an open mind as to which will work and you have to be rigorous with your research and work with your doctors.  Even then, those are not 100%.  Given that, I understand why you would punch that guy out who makes that ridiculous claim and false promise that his tincture will cure cancer 100%.  Sunforged gave the best answer and report the charlatan and keep reporting every time you see it somewhere.  You are doing everyone a favor by doing so.

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   1. 43

      Mikeydoesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I would like to see an actual method that works, people say there are, but I honestly can't say I've heard of one. If it is from a witch doctor I'm running for the hills. In fact I wouldn't trust my life to any of these methods, like I said. Hopefully I'm wrong and at least one works, but until that day. My recommendation is find the best REAL doctor you can. Preferably at a top notch facility.
      
      I hear they work from people all the time, but do they actually? I have never seen proof that shows they worked.
      
      There are many ways to trick the brain in to thinking it works. Anyone would feel great after these methods. These methods pray on tricking people in to feeling good directly after said treatment is done. If I get you to relax and focus my time on one of these methods, there is nothing to them. When you get up you will certainly feel great, and when I ask you how do you feel, most of the time you will say fantastic! What was actually fixed or solved? Nothing. Hopefully you would be smart enough to go to the doctor, because there is no telling what disease/cancer you have. Maybe it could be prevented.
      
      @Sunforged - Thanks for the support and links. I certainly DO agree that our body has more healing powers than it looks like I am giving it credit for,. If a person gets cancer, they themselves can prolong their life just by how they go after it. IF people really want to live and battle then there is no doubt that they tend to live longer. I am sure of that. There are so many false methods out there, I have yet to find a legitimate one. But like I said show me one, and I'd be happy. I still will have a bias I am sure, but I think that is a good thing. I think about it in terms of the actions I would take. I would consult several doctors, the more the better.

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   2. 83

      donotfearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Intravneous vitamin C can put cancer into remission, I'm told.

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8. 67

   superwagsposted 13 years ago

   I am in complete agreement Mikey. This has been a personal hatred of mine for some time. The idea that herbs can cure cancer is banal, particularly when represented as an alternative to proper medicine rather than to be used in addition.
   
   I have found numerous hubs on here listing "cures" including everything from vitamin B-17 to green tea. Let me reitterate to anyone who is wondering;
   
   THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT ANTIOXIDANTS OR HERBAL "MEDICINE" CAN HELP EITHER PREVENT OR CURE CANCER.
   
   At best it gives people false hope, at worst it can be extremely dangerous.

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9. 65

   prettydarkhorseposted 13 years ago

   In China, there are alternative medicines for serious illness but usually prescribed by Chinese doctors (system of medical school is different there, the use of herbal can be prescribed by MDs).
   
   With cancer, a MD who specializes in the specific ailment should be consulted at all times. People who are desperate will try anything  and misinformation are scary
   
   I agree with SF and understand Mikey's reaction about the issue.

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   1. 83

      donotfearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      To answer the question:
      
      YES, alternative medicine is ethical.  The FDA doesn't want you to know it, though.  They aren't looking out for your best interest.  Most of their "approved" drugs are poison for our bodies.  When a natural cure is found the Big pharma doesn't want you to know about it because it takes profit from them.  Big Feds don't want the cures know about either.  It's all about greed.  That's why you never hear about natural cures from the media: the media is controlled by Big feds and big pharma. 
      
      By the way, I don't think all FDA drugs are bad, either. It would be the same as saying "Natural cures are nonsense".  It's all about money and power at the sake of the health of the people.

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10. 83

    donotfearposted 13 years ago

    An example of how money/greed overrides the health of the people: A comment from one of my hubs on Lyme disease shows how the Department of Health in Arkansas is deliberately not reporting all the cases of Lyme disease in the state merely for the sake of tourism.  Read on.....
    
    "I contracted Lyme in AR along with many other species of Borrelia, erlichia(2types)and that was just the start. It was a battle to get properly diagnosed as I was told by AR soca I had ms, lupus fibromyalgia Cfs and many other things. I was positive for all of those autoimmune illnesses oddly enough. I am also DNA positive for bb '(borrelia burgdorfer aka Lyme') and many others.
    
    
    Lyme is very alive in AR so don't let them tell you differently. When my dad called the state health dept to report my case they told him they would rather not because AR is the natural state and it's economy based on people coming to hike, float the buffalo, and other outdoor activities so they don't like to report such things. Yeah.....I was shocked as well. So much so that I called the them head of the dept myself who oddly was a vet (human state health dept and head a vet???) Anyway he repeated the same words to me. Yes I am on the list just so you know. There's nothing right about hiding and misleading people. We are in a very sad situationbin AR as it's one of just five hot spots in the nation for Lyme but diagnosed as some type of autoimmune disease. Scary."

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11. 43

    Mikeydoesposted 13 years ago

    Still don't got me thinking it is ethical

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