1984 written 1949 predictions comes true - society/governing/politics

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   tsmogposted 16 months ago

   Discovered an interesting article sharing what occurred in the book - 1984, written the year 1949 by Orwell that comes to fruition. Link following.
   
   6 Predictions From Orwell’s ‘1984’ That Came True Today by Truth Theory (3/22/23)
   https://truththeory.com/6-predictions-f … 0R4Qfb6D3E
   
   What say you? If you read it do you see other things unfolding today from within the book. How about Brave New World by Aldous Huxley? Maybe Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury?
   
   Ten science fiction selections at the next link is an article titled: 10 Science Fiction Books That Predicted the Future with Eerie Accuracy.
   https://thefantasyreviews.com/2023/03/1 … -accuracy/
   
   Have you read any? Can you see parallels with today?

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      Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      I’ve seen all these as films, rather than reading the books (I know, a lazy approach); and yeah, it’s easy to draw many parallels between these films and modern society.
      
      By the turn of the 21st century (a little later than 1984) Britain was rapidly becoming a country with more CCTVs per head of population than any other country in the world.  And thinking about Fahrenheit 451 (a great film), the one thing that springs to mind is the controversy in America over banning books.

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         tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

         Thanks for sharing! I think I read about half of the titles. Their content is wandering around my brain somewhere. I feel like rereading them while comparing them to what unfolded since they were written. I think the Star Trek and Star War stories were good predictors too. Of course, not only with technology, but they were excellent social commentaries too.

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            Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Yes, Sci-fi such as “Star Trek and Star War stories were good predictors too. Of course, not only with technology, but they were excellent social commentaries too.”
            
            As you probably know, a common technique used in writing sci-fi is to draw a line between the past and present, and project it into the future – a technique which can be quite predictive.  One thing that springs to my mind is NASA’s research into an antimatter rocket engine that could one day help mankind to explore the stars:-
            
            I don’t have any up-to-date research on the subject, but I did find  a couple of old NASA articles that gives some insight into research that NASA has been conducting in this area, along with the more technical information on Wikipedia:
            
            •    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/p … ter_TS.pdf
            •    https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/202 … 001904.pdf
            •    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter_rocket

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               tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

               Not only blows my mind, but swoosh, goes over my head to some extent. Thanks for taking the time to find those articles. I read the first grasping the big idea and ideal of what is sought to be accomplished. Amazing. "Warp speed, Scotty! "To boldly go where no man has gone before.".
               
               The second article I bookmarked to place in a folder for later. I did read a couple of pages. With a giggle, skimming the article, my brain was on hyper-drive to remember what calculus remained floating in my brain.
               
               As time arrives I seek to read the dualism-quantum mechanics paper (Measurement phenomena) first. I have an interest in the philosophical perspective. I am sure questions will send me to research this and that to gain clarity. Probably next month.

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                  Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Yep, I know how you feel, when you delve into it, it is mind boggling - which is part of what I think fascinates me to quantum physics

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         DrMark1961posted 16 months agoin reply to this

         Not sure what sources you have been reading, but it is not banning books but keeping graphic sexual material out of school libraries. Parents can still buy these books at book stores if they feel they are appropriate reading material for their children as they are not banned.
         
         The link is to a politician reading from one of these books.
         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBhy_vlgKS4

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            tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            A good demonstration of the controversy with the video as well as the point being they are banned in schools in some states while not a complete ban nationally.

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               DrMark1961posted 16 months agoin reply to this

               Yes, and after I added that reply to Arthur I noticed that they were calling it a book ban on that video! Do you know of any state that has prohibited the sale of any of these books (which is actually what a book ban would be) or just prohibited them from being stocked in school libraries?

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                  tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  No, not in bookstores to my knowledge. Inspired to poke about from your post I discovered a thorough article about the topic. I skimmed stopping to read here and there while observing the graphics about school book bans, with a grain of salt. It is: Banned in the USA: State Laws Supercharge Book Suppression in Schools by Pen America - Freedom to Write. The graphics are worth a skim alongside the subheadings.
                  
                  https://pen.org/report/banned-in-the-us … n-schools/
                  
                  Agreeing the two examples that were read in the video my position is those books definitely should not be in K-12 schools. I am sure there are many others.
                  
                  Edit: Having many friends from HP who self-published gave cause to wonder what Amazon/Kindle policy is with subject matter.
                  
                  Edit, again: We do know what HP policy is if one reads the Terms of Service (TOS). I think with thought these two apply.
                  
                  contains or depicts nudity, sexual activity or violence or is otherwise unlawful, libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, indecent, lewd, suggestive, harassing, threatening, invasive of privacy or publicity rights, abusive, inflammatory or fraudulent;
                  
                  Would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party or otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law;

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                     DrMark1961posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                     Credence has pointed out that the list of books in his state also contain books about race theory, which I think is a pretty ridiculous reason to ban a book. I think anyone able to read Das Kapital or Mein Kampf should be allowed to do so, as those books contain important lessons about humans.

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                        tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                        Agreed, yet what age/school grade is appropriate? My sister-in-law is a school district supervisor and my niece a sixth-grade (11-12 age) teacher. I would be curious to learn their thoughts, however in family gatherings politics and religion stuff is taboo. Of course, one must consider I and they live in California a blue state.

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                     DrMark1961posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                     Wow, that link is interesting but so bogus. They claim that the poll showed 7o% of parents opposed book bans, but of course they do not mention how the question was phrased. If you ask "Do you support the banning of books?" most people will say no. If you say "Do you support the purchase and display of pornographic books at the library where your kids attend school?" 70 percent or more would say they support banning those books.
                     
                     That site also defines a ban as anytime a book has restricted access. According to those standards the historical books in public universities are also banned since they are not on the shelves available to the public.

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                        tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                        I get your point!! Like I shared I said with a grain of salt. Their methodology, unlike what Pew Research does at times, did not offer the questionnaire.

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            Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Well, the sources I have been reading, is the forum on this subject on HP; just observing the banter between the two sides – Admittedly I didn’t follow all the discussions on the HP forum closely, just dipped in and out, as it’s  subject matter that isn’t that relevant to me.
            
            So thanks for your clarity.

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               DrMark1961posted 16 months agoin reply to this

               I think you were right and they are calling it banning, but in my opinion it is not a real ban, just making some books not available in some school libraries.

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                  Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Perhaps censorship might be a more appropriate word?
                  
                  School education is one area where censorship would seem appropriate; the difficult part becomes in deciding what is apocopate to censor, to achieve a balanced view, and who makes those decisions.
                  
                  On scanning Google, I came across this statement ”A Ballantine Books version of the book Fahrenheit 451 which is the version used by most school classes contained approximately 75 separate edits, omissions, and changes from the original Bradbury manuscript.”
                  
                  As you know, films have censorship e.g. in the UK the main age groups classification certification being:
                  
                  •    U = Universal (any age).
                  •    PG = Parental Guidance e.g. leaves it up to the parent to decide whether they children can watch it.
                  •    12 = should be over age of 12 to watch.
                  •    15 = should be over age of 15 to watch.
                  •    18 = only suitable for adults.
                  
                  I’m sure the film censorship in America is similar?
                  
                  But another type of censorship in films that I have been aware of for a long time is that films released in America often have sex scenes edited out, whereas in Europe they’re not; and films released in Europe can have some of the violence edited out, whereas in America those scenes are not cut.
                  
                  One example that springs to mind is the British comedy-drama film made in 2009, based on true events, called “The Boat That Rocked”; it tells the true story of the fight between the UK Government and Pirate Radio in Britain in the 1960s; pirate radio ships that operated around the British coast, just outside of British waters.
                  
                  The film released in Britain is 2 hours 15 minutes long.
                  
                  The film was edited for the American market, renamed “Pirate Radio” and had 18 minutes (mostly sex scenes) edited out – so it’s only 1 hour 57 minutes long in the American version.

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                     Nathanvilleposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                     A couple of years ago we visited the LV18 lightship (as featured in the film “The Boat that Rocked”) while on holiday in Harwich.
                     
                     The LV18, now permanently docked at Harwich as a tourist attraction, is a light vessel (mobile lighthouse) built in 1958; it’s the type of vessels used for pirate radio in the 1960s off the coast of England, and is the last of its kind. 
                     
                     The Marine offences Act, which under a Labour Government became law in the UK on 14 August 1967, with the consent of the EU, extended the powers of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 to beyond the territorial waters of the UK, so that British Officials could legally (under international law) apprehend the radio pirate ships, and all aboard (outside of British waters), allowing the British Government to force the radio pirate ships to cease operating.
                     
                     Many of the pirate ship DJ’s (Disk Jockeys) were subsequently employed by BBC Radio, who prior to 1967 had a monopoly on the music broadcasted in Britain, and who heavily censored the music industry (which is why pirate radio had existed e.g. push back against censorship) e.g. the BBC refused to play Rock & Roll music (like the Beatles and the Rolling Stones etc.).  But after 1967, the ex-pirate ship DJ’s employed by the BBC were given free rein to play what they wanted e.g. Rock and Roll (no more censorship).
                     
                     So in their defeat, a victory by the pirate DJ’s for freedom from censorship in the music industry.  The BBC now organises an annual event for surviving pirate radio DJ’s to gather on board of the LV18 to run a nostalgic broadcast (by the BBC) in tribute to the days of pirate radio:-
                     
                     Tom Edwards (Pirate DJ at the time) on Radio Caroline (one of the pirate radio ships at the time) 50th year Reunion on board the LV18 Lightship https://youtu.be/I9aCv_z9VqE
                     
                     Official Trailer of the film: https://youtu.be/CZ3xNmqxZQE

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                     tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                     Interesting! The first form of censorship, kind of, is the screenwriter adapting the novel/book with what to put in the script. And, then we could consider the director censors the film with his personal concept of how he desires the actor to portray in collaboration with the actor's interpretation of the character, set design, etc.

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      CHRIS57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Many SciFi books paint a gloomy future with dystopian societies. And sometimes similarities to present developments show up.
      
      Somehow i have the impression that Orwell already had real world examples like the Soviet Union to look at. He used this in "1984" and hinted this in "Animal Farm" from 1945.
      
      If you allow, i would add to the list of books:
      "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood (1985)
      "Day of the Oprichnik" by Vladimir Sorokin (2006)
      
      Day of the Oprichnik books were subject to symbolic "Flushing down the toilet" by Putin followers (A real world reminiscence to Bradbury`s F451?)
      The satyrical content describes why and what is happening right now in Russia.
      
      In my opinion "1984" as well as "Day of the Oprichnik" don´t make predictions but take the beginning of social developments to a logical future. Look like prophecies but are not.

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         tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

         Accepted! Appreciate the view. I am certain 'real life' experience plays a role in an author's composition. Makes you wonder about "John of Patmos" composing the book of Revelations. Just what the heck did he experience to base the book on and so forth? I'll ponder at a later time.

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            CHRIS57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Interesting that you refer to the Book of Revelation. An ancient example of doomsday literature. The book seems to reflect more on natural catastrophy scenarios than on dystopian societies and uses these scenarios as threats.
            
            A more technical prediction can be found in Ezekiel´s description of innovative wheels (Ez 1:15) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecanum_wheel
            
            I have to be careful about religious texts. They are mostly written to actively control and guide people. On the other hand SciFi literature tries describe future technical and social developments. Totally different approach, me think.

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               tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

               Agreed! My brain was triggered toward articles written about ancient visitors from 'space' whatever that is with the Mercanum Wheel. Thanks for sending me there.
               
               Yes, religion has blessings and curses, doesn't it? I feel sci-fi also is a commentary on societies and cultures. It gave rise to me to take a couple of Sociology classes to further my understanding. One that was instrumental was Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. Have you read it?

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                  CHRIS57posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Yes, i have read the book, even though in its early German translation where locations are Berlin and Northern Germany and many British industrialists referenced were replaced by German equivalents of that time. Only Henry Ford remained untouched.
                  
                  Anyways i think that "Brave New World" is an exception from his oevre due to the projection into the future. His other novels are more describing his humanistic views reflecting his own upper class life. Something he has in common with German writer Thomas Mann.
                  
                  I also read "Time must have a Stop" by Huxley and was kind of disappointed to not find any hints to "Brave New World".
                  
                  I would like add to dystopian literature:
                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel) by Yevgeny Zamyatin.
                  For me this novel is the forefather of this type of literature.

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                     tsmogposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                     Thanks for the reference! I should share the provided link does not go to the novel. However, guided by your recommendation and curiosity I found it.
                     
                     Sharing . . . A truth from my perspective, through personal discovery, is that of bias or perhaps a sense of nationality. In other words, I had not thought of authors of other regions/nations exploring the topic - dystopian societies.  The article you shared for We brought that discovery. It was interesting discovering in that time period the influence of one author upon another. I guess to an extent one can say - networking. I thank you for that!
                     
                     Interestingly, for me, I have been playing around with reading about linear thinking in contrast to non-linear thinking. I thought of that with the contrast of the society as it is inside the Green Wall vs. outside. In an odd way, I drew a parallelism. Unsure if they are there or not?
                     
                     The bottom line is I learned something new, so thanks!

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