With so many talented writers here at Hub Pages, I have been thinking lately, that an open space for writing and poetry collaboration should be a fun and very rich idea. An opportunity for our talented writers to be able to mingle and create hubs or poems that are constructed from the collaboration of two or more of us. I believe this would be a great way to not only get to know other talented writers but also open up a new world of beautiful creations that would enrich the experience of writers and readers as well.
I don't write poetry anymore but, quite honestly, I'd rather see a mentor program than a collaboration project. The are some really really good poets here, but a vast majority are rather awful. I realize that poetry is subjective, but I'd say roughly 85 percent of the poems I read on this site were written by individuals with no concept of any poetic standards. Stream of consciousness poetry is great (I guess) but there still are elements that make a poem a poem instead of a random slew of words vomited on a computer screen. Traditional rhyming verse is also okay (again, I guess) but some don't seem to realize that meter is kinda vital... terminal rhymes don't help much without it.
Well Melissa I agree that there are many standards in literarture that make poetry what it was intended to be in the beginning and I also agree that there should be mentorship for those who would like to learn how to construct a poem based on those standards as well. But unfortunately and with all respect I must say, that these are also very old yet traditional standards and this is a world that is in constant change and most of us try to evolve into new ways of portraying the beauty of emotions turned into words. I believe in the beauty and the symetry of meter and standards of a stanza and a verse but I also believe in the freedom to express what a heart and soul feels without necessarily caging it into rules and regulations. What's the fun in that? Where is the freedom of the feeling expressed into the poetic form? Where would the beauty end if we try to restrain it? Dunno if you have read my poetry or the beautiful poetry that I have had the honor to read from other fellow hubbers but I have been blessed to have a gift and that gift was given freely to me by God, therefore I set it loose for it to fly. If it happens to follow standards of metric, well great but if it doesn't, I have found that it still touches the hearts of many and that in itself is a blessing to me.
*Smiles* no disrespect intended and none taken. I took the time to look at a few of your poems (and lyrics) after you posted. I have no problem with free verse and yours poems seem to be done well.
I agree that poetry doesn't have to rhyme (but I will still argue that if it DOES rhyme, it needs meter). However, at the basis of poetry is poetic language...(meaning that word choice was designed to create an image or invoke an emotion in the reader)
"I had a dog
ate his food
is not poetry. I have read quite a few poets on here that were good and I enjoyed. There were quite a few poets that I have disliked, but still acknowledged that they were writing poetry. Then there are the ones who are not writing poetry, they are throwing a five minute collection of flat words up on a computer screen.
I will agree that I can be rather elitist when it comes to poetry, which is why I don't write it anymore. It's not a disrespect to aspiring poets, but rather a love of the genre. There are some forms I like better than others but I'm not really all that bound in form. (Except if you say you are writing a specific form of poetry and fail at the requirements of that form) but I do insist that some effort be made to actually create a work of art. That requires actual work and a creative process.
I can tell, very easily, when someone has spent five minutes on a poem with no thought to word choice, imagery, emotional reaction, or any other aspect of poetry that makes it an art form.
Hehehe you are really wise and I love that about a person. It makes it worhtwhile to have a nice conversation or discussion.
You are right about many writers not really dedicating the time and effort to construct something beautiful and worth to be called poetry. But I also understand that this is somehow a start for a great mentorship program like you suggested Melissa. I think many would really benefit from a program like this. May I suggest you could be the one to establish and direct this workshops? I think it would be really awesome if you did. I can't help but to notice the passionate stand from where you defend our beloved genre and I think many would be honored to learn from you. Including myself. :-)
I have been in love with poetry since I was in third grade and I have never found a better way of expression for my heart and soul and it is my artistic way to free my passionate being. But I know many out there who have just started and really would need help. You and me are not too far apart from the same point of view... hehe
Really good points you make..
I personally have Never learned anything about poetry form, structure, styles or anything! Absolutely Nothing... I just write my pulse...
I have recently read about how incredibly hard poetry and haiku are and how one should write and construct poetry. I am really interested in what I have started to read (and I guess- learn).
But, as I said.. in the absence of any direction or formal training.. I have found that my pulse seems to understand how a poetic heart should beat!
A lot of people seem to enjoy the words that fall on my pages... or am I just imagining it? I really don't know!
*Smiles* Haiku is my weakness. (I have a couple articles-not hubs-floating around out there if you are interested) It is structurally difficult, but there is so much more to it than the words, there are a plethora of factors that define Haiku that have nothing to do with it's structure. It's rigid structure and brevity, instead of setting up a formula, actually encourages much deeper thought to word choice and imagery.
Most of the classic forms of poetry work the same way. They make you focus on word choice and clarity of message. As poetry is intended to be read allowed (even if it is only in your reader's head) attention to meter is paramount (not necessarily counting syllables, but at least a design for smooth reading and appropriate word emphasis)
I don't think I've read any of your poems, but I'll go look just to satisfy my own curiousness.
I have read two poems out of maybe a hundred that followed some sort of iambic meter.
I'm pretty new around here but from what I read so far it seems like a lot of people favor free form poetry with no meter.
Many poets assume that free form is easier. The fact is GOOD free form is ridiculously difficult to produce. Lots of words that don't rhyme, however, IS ridiculously easy to produce. I see a lot of it mislabeled as poetry, it isn't though.
I've written poetry on here and all I have gotten is great comments from fellow hubbers. Melissa, I'm sorry to hear that 85% of the poems you've read on here you didn't like. When I write my poetry, I write it from my heart. Some of them are 'fun' ones that bring a smile or two. The rest of them are pretty intense. They are all real life experiences I've had. With the latter ones, a vast array of emotions may well up within the reader. Unless of course the reader has no compassion or empathy or just flat out doesn't care. I use the gift that God has given me with writing to hopefully touch the lives of others. I hope to touch many.
I feel for what you have said here. I too have received this gift fro The Almighty and I let His spirit guide me to write most of what I publish here with the hope that it will touch the souls of those who are open to His love, and even those who are not so open have been touched by it. Many won't understand the importance of this assignment but I have encountered so many that do care and understand and are able to be moved by it.
I believe when you open your heart of hearts to pour it on a verse and express your inner self, there is no better way to show the artistry of your soul or show what the Father has created in you. And whether it rhymes or not, I believe if you do it with true honesty and real feelings, and if it moves someone who was in need and touches the heart of those who seek then it has served the purpose it was intended to serve.
Much poetry does come from the heart. I appreciate that. I understand it can be an intensely personal experience and quite therapeutic.
What I am about to write next is the reason WHY I don't like conversations like this and likely wouldn't entered this conversation if not for my pain medication.
Diary writing also comes from the heart. That doesn't make it good writing.
Poets and aspiring poets are frequently extremely touchy about any criticism of their own work and of the genre in general. There's a couple of problems with that... firstly, vanity publishing preys on these individuals that think that just because something is touching to them, that if will affect others the same way. Secondly, if someone is unwilling to accept criticism, they never get any better.
Poetry, as is any form of writing, is a form of art. All arts, while extremely creative in nature, benefit from some sort of knowledge of the fundamentals. Photographers know about lighting, painters know about brush strokes and paint textures, musicians have some concept of music theory.
Poetry is no different, but for some reason aspiring poets often get so caught up in the "self-expression" and "beauty" that they neglect even the basic understanding of the art form. In many cases they are no more poets than a toddler hitting a car with a hammer is a mechanic.
I am without compassion or empathy, but caring about a piece of writing is not my responsibility nor is it the responsibility of any reader. It is the responsibility of the writer to express themselves well enough to engage the reader.
"I am sad" doesn't engage me. "So often have I wept that my pillow cries for you" might... If (and this is a big if) the triteness doesn't put me off.
I respect your point of view here but I also believe that this forum was opened to encourage other poets to join and enable the creation of poetry in collaboration and not really to define what poetry should or should not be or look like or to discuss if the poets here in Hub Pages are or not worthy of being called poets at all. Perhaps, that could be the subject for yet another forum.
I believe that art in its true expresiion is not caged or controlled. Disciplined? Yes, there are teachings and lessons for those who were or were not born with a natural talent, but in my opinion, one who was born with a real talent could benefit from the discipline of standards and/or regulations but does not really need it if the talent is innate. It is a human condition I guess, to try and regulate and control everything that flows in beauty and freedom. But to accuse someone of being unable to accept criticism is a little rash. I am sure that many people here would welcome criticism well and with an open mind and heart. After all, we are all eager to learn. Even those who consider themselves really great. Art is freedom of expression nevertheless. If we crowd it and corner it with regulations then not only does it take the freedom away from it but it also makes it something of a discriminative environment secluded and directed for those who can really master it. To me that is just more prejudice. To be open to learn more and make your gift even better, that is a must for those who really want it to be that way. I include myself in this group. But to those who are just starting or those who are more sensitive or the ones who are just looking for a way of expression and those who find healing in writing freely without having someone scrutinize their every written word, it is a way of feeling free and finding an outlet to what oppresses them, not a test of their capabilities. And even if their poetry doesn't follow meter or rhyme fundmentals, even if it just says "I'm sad", it has my respect as a writer, because art and expression doesn't need a form or pattern, it needs feeling.
The rules about form aren't as strict as they were at one time, but that doesn't mean great poetry is not being composed. It's fine to break form, or combine different forms. I've read plenty of very fine poems these last few weeks, and I'm still reading. Quite a few of them were written in distinct forms. While form and structure is important, a good poem will communicate effectively what the poet wants to say. I've read some using form which didn't flow, and I've read free form poems that flowed beautifully. Much of it has to do with layout and how the poet wants it read, syllable stress. Tom Rubenoff has a great hub about breaking free from form. http://tomrubenoff.hubpages.com/hub/Breaking-Form
This are nice words indeed rebekahELLE. I too believe that the breaking of established forms is something that reveals the trends of evolution and defines the way a writter or a poet breaksthrough. Being an artist, whether you are a singer or songwriter or poet or whether you create beautiful traditional paintings or more modern ones, it's a matter of daring to break patterns and keep an open mind and heart. And any form of art communicates an expression, a feeling from the artist that ways caged and is now being set free. It is not about vanity, but about true expression of self. Thank you fo sharing Tom Rubenoff's link. And for your point of view. I should understand that you write poetry as well? I will stop by and read some of your work. And extend an invitation for you as well to read mine.
After all , I opened this forum to encourage other poets to work in collaboration.
Thanks for that --- Did you mean 'read aloud' rather than read allowed?
If so, then I guess that I understand much that I do, as a result of music and an ability to learn and play by ear. Cheers for your comments.
I know you didn't ask for an unsolicited review on your haiku, but you are getting one anyway. You have wicked awesome imagery. Great word choice, and you are perfectly structurally sound for modern haiku. Traditional haiku would require a kireji, which is there on some -but not all- of your poems. Purists would kick their heels, but then again purists argue that it is impossible to recreate traditional haiku with the English language.
The only real negative I would put in is that some of your haiku aren't really haiku, they are senryu. A requirement to Haiku is either a direct reference or an inference to nature and/or the seasons. Senryu is structurally the same, but addresses the human condition in some way.
Either way, you are very talented at both forms.
I can't really imagine collaborating with anyone else on any kind of writing. I just don't see writing as a "collaboration thing". I REALLY don't write much poetry, but I REALLY can't imagine collaborating on poetry. Maybe it's just me.
Poetry for me is personal so I couldn't see myself collaborating with someone on that. All my poems are based on my personal experiences and feelings. They are my way of expressing those experiences.
Maybe a novel collaboration would be more appropriate for me.
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