How To Fix the Debt Crisis in America - A List of Top Ten Suggestions to Solve the American National Debt.

How about just plain budgeting. How money is budgeted and spent in Washington is different than anywhere else. There are $billions$ of growth automatically built into the budget each year and any attempt to keep that growth rate down is called a cut by the demagogues in Washington. There a further $billions$ in off budget spending. There is a massive entitlement called Social Security that threatens to sink the whole ship if not reformed. The collision with that iceberg was foretold in the 1980s and no real effort has been made to change course.

End war on drugs (savings = $500 billion per year according to Rolling Stones article), end medicare/medicaid and deal with health care at a local level (savings = $703 billion according to Wikipedia), end all foreign conflicts and close most foreign bases with goal of cutting military spending in half (savings = $250 billion per year), end department of energy (savings = $29 billion per year according to Wikipedia). This would be over $1.4 trillion dollars savings per year. There are a ton of little programs that need to end too, but the above would be a good start.

We need to start prioritizing budget items. If there isn't enough money for everything, then lower priority items wouldn't receive any funds that year.

There is a lot to be said for refocusing the "war on drugs" money to drug treatment( on the state level) Medicare/Medicaid would be far more efficiently handled by individual states. It is long past time for the Europeans and Japanese to pay for their own defense. Energy, Education, Labor, Commerce, Transportation should all be eliminated as cabinet level departments and have their responsibilities either folded into Interior and Treasury or devolved to the states.

Here's a suggestion with sacrifices on both sides of the aisle.

Modify Social Security to increase the age, as well as the income cap.

Go back to Clinton level tax rates. That was the only time in the past 30 years that this country has operated in the black.

The conservatives need to start being honest. Not all spending is created equal. We need to invest in our educational system and in our infrastructure. We also need to invest in developing new industries that can provide the jobs needed to sustain the middle class.

And we need to cut our military expenditures significantly.

Wasn't the $800 billion stimulus for infrastructure? How many children does the Department of Education educate? How much energy does the Department thereof produce? Defense is a Constitutionally charged responsibility of the Federal government but a retirement program is not.

Lowered tax rates do not produce deficits, spending does. If anything lower taxes produces increased economic activity resulting in more revenue. The Black Budgets of the Clinton Era were all produced by Republican Congresses. The two years Democrats had Congress under Clinton there were record(until that time) budget deficits.

@ucv

Tax cuts do produce deficits. And you are correct, under a Democrat president, the Republican Congress passed a budget that included tax INCREASES, and then turned around and cut taxes under a Republican administration. Notice that tax increases as well as spending cuts were necessary then. They will have to be part of the solution now.

Which is why saying that the GOP can fix this deficit issue in humorous to me. They could have fixed it when they held the White House, and both chambers of Congress for 6 years.

This GOP line of lower taxes producing more revenue is patently false as it only accounts for 2 sides of the equation, spending and revenue. It doesn't take into account that the shortfall is usually made up by deficit financing.

Consider the budgets of the GOP standard bearer, Ronald Reagan. He lowered taxes, and took in more relative revenue, but also tripled the deficit. Please be honest about the equation. You can't totally ignore one major component when discussing this issue.

Ronald Reagan made the usual mistake when dealing with Democrats on spending cuts, he believed them. The Democrats had control of Congress under Reagan and offered two-to-one spending cuts to tax cuts. Reagan got his tax cuts but no spending cuts. Revenues rose but spending rose faster. That was one big reason behind Reagan wanting the line item veto.

As for Bush and spending. He was anything but a conservative and it was reflected in how poorly he lead the government. Dennis Hastert and Tom DeLay also - finally - got their hands on the coffers and wanted to do what Democrats do so well, raid them to buy votes. Many Republicans were disturbed by this hence the massive defeat of Republicans in 2006.

The work of Art Laffer clearly demonstrates the power of tax cuts.

I will never say this to my sons, because I want them to have some hope for the future, but I think we are finished as a free people. Too many of us believe that the state exists to transfer property from one citizen to another. Nearly half the population pays no Federal tax. We have thrown the border open as if importing people from a barely literate, third world economy will restore and enlarge a technological 1st world economy. We do not understand what money is.

We refuse to look the liberal who would strip us of liberty and tell him, "Dare to, sir and die." We are finished.

Interesting hub, voted up, useful and interesting. I appreciate that you backed up your arguments with some links rather than just writing a rant.

UCV

I find your assertion that the "liberal" is attempting to strip anyone of liberty interesting, but misinformed.

I think a huge portion of the problem we face is that Americans tend to have very short memories where our history is concerned. As such we tend to value rhetoric over substance and facts.

America has always had 3rd world immigrants that were always to blame for whatever problems were faced at the time. Earlier in the 20th century if you were Italian, or Irish you were the Mexicans of the day.

The role of the state is to do the things we as individuals cannot. Infrastructure, defense, fiscal policy. For all of talk of how much of the population pays no federal tax, the other side of the coin is never discussed and that is how much of the wealth is controlled by only 10% of the population. 71%.

The bottom 50% you previously mentioned control only 2.5% of the wealth in this country.

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wea...

The reality is that, yes, income distribution is real. But it isn't taking from the rich. The reality is that it is going TO the rich.

I remember watch this topic in the Oprah Winfrey Show. Oprah try to reveal about many Americans was trapped in the debt, but finally the audience got the solution at the end of the show. I love your tips and I hope many people will love to read this hub. Thanks for writing and share with us. Vote up!

Prasetio

...well I`ve got two strikes against me - lol - I am apolitical and I live on the poverty level (in Canada) but I DO KNOW ONE THING FOR SURE - I am in debt to you because you have been loyal to me and supported my writing and you are such a marvelous writer yourself (be sure to see my comment to you on MISUNDERSTOOD BEAUTY) and I certainly love your passion and concern here ....

lake erie time with a full moon 12:48am

Every Canadian I have met has been a fair minded and decent soul. I love your country and I don't think of it as America's ice box but I do like the notion of our cousins to the North.

O Canada!

Our home and native land!

True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,

The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

The perfect hub for our times. You make a powerful point that it will take action on several fronts to balance the budget and begin paying off the accumulated debt. Not everyone will agree with each point, but if we can get people thinking about the REAL issues, we can make progress.

Hi Vix, I like your style and I will voraciously read your work as soon as I can. Here is the opening paragraph to my one government rant "Parity"--

"What I propose is a class-action suit on behalf of taxpayers to declare unconstitutional any benefit, wage or protection for any government worker that is more than that given to a taxpayer in a comparable job in the private sector."

I don't know how much that will save, but I bet it will be considerable.

I also think that we can follow Granny's advice by using the time-tested "No taxation without representation." Creating a debt that cannot be paid by this generation means that we are intentionally taxing the unborn who, obviously, have no possibility of representation in the creation of their tax bill.

Now, do I think the politicians will do this? No, they won't, but the Supreme Court might.

Raising our collective voices as you mentioned in your poll, needs to happen--especially online. Look what happened in Egypt because of internet connected patriots. If a networked populace under a dictatorship can change the way government works, why can't a democracy?

We start small. Find a way to tie an elected representative to a popular internet vote of his or her constituents. If a number greater than that which elected them wants a vote to go a certain way, it goes that way or that politician is not reelected or worse is impeached. We have to start somewhere to move back to "of the people, by the people."

Keep up the good work Vix. We hear you and we are ready. =:)

I totally agree with this hub poetvix. I am from the UK but most,if not all of your points here are things i agree with and think could and should work here. Great work. Michael.

Wow i did not know the debt had actually gotten that high, great hub thanks for the read.

From all the long involved discussions and comments you might have enough ideas for ten more hubs.

Fixing debt crisis is not easy. Thank you for your brilliant sharing. It is really awesome!

How ya doin Poetvix ? I am nowhere near smart enough to solve the problems that beset us here. But most of the points you made are common sense solutions that probably have no chance of being utilized. A couple I would like to throw in are bring the troops home because the war machine is far to expensive and I really do not think we need all the bases we have overseas. In regards to lobbyist they do need to be eliminated. And we also need term limits on politicians as well. Many in congress have been in politics and in congress for 40 years are more.

Also we need a flat tax. Our tax code is far to complex for anybody to comprehend. A flat tax insures everybody pays the same rate with no loopholes.

First let me say Poetvix this is a very good topic and you presented it very well. You dissected the current dilemma nicely to a certain degree. What most continue to forget is we HAD a balanced budget and a SURPLUS. Clinton presidency gave us with a few good years of milk and honey. Not saying that we didn’t have pressing problems but America was indulging lavishly and comfortably. But remember, in his first term there were bitter frictions and bickering amongst the political forces in office. But the American people stood by Clinton allowing him time to change the dynamics of partisanship of our elected congressional disputes all in the name of what’s best for the country. But instead of keeping with this ideology to stay with the people’s party, WE switched and it has cost us dearly... As Americans we are a country of convenience with right now attitudes. If it doesn't work NOW, we get flustered and retreat to something NEW... WE as a people must learn patience to weather the storm by sticking to what we voted for and hold your elected officials accountable. The executive branch of government (the president) ONLY has limited powers. It’s not like the current president can wave a wand and the legislative branch say, let’s do it! Take in the last election, we decided to give the Republicans the upper hand again and it has cost us a downgrade of our rating. Right now most Americans are thinking of switching back to Republican rule for 2012. If Americans to exclude the two percent of the wealthy Americans vote to change the party, everyone better hold on to your boots because the Republicans and the Teabaggers are willing to guide this country straight off the cliff... Believe it; you just witnessed it a week ago...Only the strong and wise will survive...

It is so good to see someone so able to rewrite history in such a way that it comforts them like anesthesia. The 1994 mid-term election turned out the second largest number of incumbents since the 1930s(the largest was 2010.) For the first time since the Civil War a sitting Speaker of the House lost his House seat.

Clinton's first two budgets offered record deficits, modest though they were by Obama standards. The new conservative Republican majorities in both the House and the Senate passed balanced budgets, paid off those portions of the National Debt allowed by Bond rules and created the "Clinton surplus." Though the actual amount and reality of that "surplus" is frequently debated.

One thing we know for sure is that once the debt ceiling was raised, the man who said government must learn to live within its means, the Bluffer-in Chief, BHO committed hundreds of billions to new spending.

poetvix - I must say I like your style. But remember, some people don't like facts. They would rather make them up as they go along. President Smirksalot isn't my favorite either. LMAO

The Frog

@ poetix

I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of the worst ever and place a vote for the previous administration.

For all the talk about the levels of spending, the major drivers of the increase in spending are the automatic increases in SSI and Medicare programs. Both outside the control of the Executive Branch.

Here is an interesting math fact from Politifact.com:

If you subtract the share for federal transfer payments ...it turns out that government spending as a percentage of GDP actually declined between 1963 and 2010, from 22.5 percent to 19.3 percent.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements...

Regarding destroying the nation, it would be prudent to remember that this recession began under the previous administration. As did the policies that are the major drivers of the current debt: tax cuts, 2 wars, Medicare expansion. Actual numbers here.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3...

Here's an interesting fact for the Tax Enough Already folks: We currently pay less in total taxes as a percentage of total income than we ever did at any point under Reagan.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr190.pdf

And as much as conservatives decry the individual mandate, it is ironic to note that the leading voices against government administered insurance all have government administered insurance.

@ucv

You are correct that it took a GOP House to finally deliver a balanced budget. That however, required raising taxes AND cutting taxes. It made sense then.

We've had many discussion over several threads and my principle has always remained the same. I'm not as much interested in partisanship as I am in what has been shown to be effective.

I believe it is safe to say I attempt to be fair. By today's standards, even Reagan wouldn't be considered conservative enough. Not the myth of Reagan, but the actual man.

I get it, we need to make cuts. I agree with starting with our military. As well as changes to our social net programs to make them more viable long term.

But to only balance the budget on the backs of the elderly, poor and middle class is something I cannot agree with. For one simple reason.

Since 1980, most tax cuts have overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy. Over that same period of time, EVERY tax cut has added to the deficit.

This country's growth has been financed by borrowing from our descendents. The Baby Boomers have benefited the most as a generation from this trend. The only way to ensure that they is a legacy to leave them is to pay back what we borrowed from them before we leave.

End of the day, any serious discussion about the debt will have to include tax increases. Its the only way to fill in the gap.

poetvix - Now don't go to getting me blushing Texas Princess. I'm just your everyday, straight shootin' Frog Prince. It seems your article here has some of the liberal persuasions panties in a knot. Good for you but it's hard to counter facts.

Even if you post a link to the facts, don't expect them to click and read.

The Frog

@Poet

I'll deal with each point individually.

About the net neutrality ruling, you've actually got it backwards.

"The rules are designed to, in effect, keep the companies that own the internet's real-world infrastructure from slowing down some types of websites or apps -- say, those belonging to a competitor -- or speeding up others for high-paying clients.

For average internet users, the vote affects whether government will guarantee they'll continue to have access to all Web content, regardless of their internet provider's wishes, and whether they'll get that content as quickly as businesses or individuals able to pay more for it."

This is the actual rationalization for why net neutrality was upheld. I read the links you provided, but this is an issue I followed with a bit of interest as it affects our ability to access content on the net.

In essence, net neutrality is what we currently have. All you can access for the same price. What service providers were seeking was to justify charging some customers more for accessing certain content.

Legal arguments aside, I personally am against anything Comcast is for.

Tanglewood - Your rationalization of why Net Neutrality has a hole in it. Explain to us why the federal government is putting its tentacles into the internet using this smoke screen as a justification? It sounds good but it si just more over reach by the bloated central government that they have created, at our expense let me add.

Poet - I go to the grocery so I see it in living color. If one watches the commodities market they see the inflation there. If one visits the gas pump, they hit another BINGO. Obama's policies have done nothing but make a bad situation worse, yet some people still kneel at his altar. Go figure.

poetvix - Now we're cooking. I always usually like the way a Texas woman thinks because they bother to think. Then you add that good caffeine buzz and WOWSER! A mind is a terrible thing to waste and our liberal citizens should be mindful of that.

I'll send you a new link visa Hub mail for something AI think you might enjoy dear heart. The heart of a poet is qa good heart :)

poet - Sorry about my typing. Just put a dunce cap on me and have me sit in the corner for an hour. LMAO

poetvix - I won't present a defense against that, There is no way I can because you nailed it! LOL

a few writers here stole my thunder.. but let me just say.. yeah this was worth the read.. It won't help pay down the debt.. but it was worth the read..

Are you running in 2012? you have my vote.

Very disturbing is it not!? I like how much research you have put into this!! :) Weldone.

Rhonda, I have researched the foreign aid a bit and found that the numbers are rather small if you consider 25 billion as "small". We provide aid to a lot of countries but the top 10 get the bulk of it. The majority of these countries vote against us in the UN on key issues as much as 75% of the time...wow look what money buys! Your points are well presented and you get the point across that while we cannot kill elephants with one shot, we can certainly knock down some small things. These begin to add up if you stay the course. MediCare is good in principle but as you point out needs some reform in term of fraud and mistaken payments which I have seen estimated as high as 90 billion dollars annually. No...don't investigate just scrap the program and move everybody to ObamaCare with the same results. Our leaders keep doing the same things over and over expecting different results...the true definition of stupidity in action. Along with their actions, there are plenty of people in America, both legal and illegal, looking for a block of free cheese and anything else they can grab. For all the homeless people and those willing to beg rather than work, I have yet to see an Asian person on welfare or out begging for handouts. They all work and they make a living any way the can because they have too much self-respect and esteem to take handouts. Many Americans could learn much from such a culture. Washington must be cleaned out, scrubbed down, fumigated, and restocked with new trout just before we run all the lobbyists out of town. Thanks for a good article. WB

Poetvix, you have written a brilliant hub. I wish I had a brilliant comment to add to your discussion but I don't, so I will just wish you well, and keep doing what you're doing, and thank you for the follow.

@Poetvix,

Sorry it has taken me awhile to respond to your rebuttal to my response but I am trying to get acclimated in this new environment as well as making sure I provide truth to this great dialogue. Anyway, I am always open to read and understand what people think while learning how one arrive at their beliefs. In other words, I am okay with one disagreeing with me when seeing it in a different light when I’m at least provided with facts to a rebuttal. You seem to be a open-minded person to hear facts and that’s what motivates me to engage in honest dialect.

You stated: The stimulus stunk and worse it's gone and there is no getting it back.

Fact: Well actually the $787 billion stimulus increased employment between 1.4 million and 3.3 million people, compared with what employment would have been otherwise. That’s according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office despite false Republican claims that it did nothing. Be not confused by what is said vs. documented factual information. Simply put, more people would have been unemployed today if not for the stimulus bill being signed by President Barack Obama into law on Feb. 17, 2009. Ask the employees of General Motors to verify this claim…

Other Fact: According to Recovery.gov much of the money committed towards stimulating the economy, under President Obama's stimulus plan, is in process. This includes $172 Billion has been spent; $157 Billion is in process; $251 Billion is still left to be spent; $93 Billion worth of tax cuts have been issued; $119 Billion worth of tax cuts are remaining to be issued. Only 29.62% of the stimulus money has been spent…

In my opinion the stimulus should have been larger but the Republicans refuse to pass anything larger so President O took what he could get verses nothing…

Read more: http://greenanswers.com/q/121250/energy-fuels/alte...

Check out: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill, also see Factcheck.org

Let's to be clear here is what’s been PAID back from the stimulus plan…

Committed Invested

Funds paid back: ($118.5 billion) ($118.5 billion)

New initiatives: $172.9 billion N/A

TARP total: $700 billion $356.2 billion

http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/...

So you see it did add value, saved jobs, and helped companies avoid putting the dreaded sign we have come to see so frequently, “Out of Business” signs that have gripped many businesses across this great nation. Most importantly we did in fact receive a lot of the money back but no one’s talking about that...

More jobs need to be created true, and TTanglewood posted several ways below.

He stated a key point; we need to invest in our educational system and in our infrastructure. We also need to invest in developing new industries that can provide the jobs needed to sustain the middle class. Don’t know if you knew this but if you haven’t been following the administration’s initiatives several projects have been offered to congress to act on. Congress has the legislative powers to create this balance not the president.

@Poetvix

You mentioned in your article about not understanding how states are choosing infrastructure over education. Your quote was; I would like to address one department on education. “I find it typical ooberment crazy that the literally millions of dollars for thousands of school districts did not go for new programs, more teachers, but no, the vast majority of it went for "infrastructure" type things”

I am currently writing my first hub soon to be released about this very issue of a current administration initiative put forth for all states to participate to receive federal funding for education. It’s called, A Race To The Top. A great opportunity for states, local governments and school educators to create a working model that would have a huge probability of being adopted by schools across the country that would better educate the future brains of tomorrow.

Out of 50 states, 40 actual participated and did the work to submit ideas to be contenders in the race for this funding. As the saying goes, “God bless the child that can create its own.”

You must ask yourself how important does the politicians in your state value education? Did your state participate?

I see you reside in Texas who elected NOT to participate. Maybe the reason the Texas educational system lacks funding and opportunity to fix a broken system because it didn't participate.

Americans must be asking and demanding a change the majority of America voted for in 2009. Not always look to change the presidency but changing how we the people allow local, state, and congressional officer’s to not take accountability verses complaining with words to change a system. It is up to us to change by contributing to change by participating (literally) verses waiting for others to fix what’s broken with through political posturing.

I would like to address your two comments where you stated;

#1. “The Obama administration has done more to destroy this nation than all other presidents throughout the history of the U S of A put together”.

#2. “The policies they support, in my opinion, are at best loosely termed as socialism.”

Let me begin by saying you stated this was your opinion but I would like to address this with facts. Using the word destroy is very complex and can have a profound effect on ones thought process. But for the purpose of this discussion let’s discuss the positives this administration has created since in office that can be viewed as good for the country and provide a clearer path to rectify your notions of worse.

Since taking office the current administration made approximately 500 promises to Americans prior to receiving the votes to put him into the White House. Was he voted in on emotions or did you and others look at what his promises were prior to voting him in?

Promises are made to be kept so let’s see how he has done in two and half years to help us understand how if previous presidents performances put him in last place. I won’t go too far back but for practical purposes I will provide a real sense of destroy verses enhanced.

The Obameter Scorecard

Promise Kept 142 (In less than 3 years in office)

Compromise 42

Promise Broken 43

Stalled 72 (Republicans unwilling to compromise)

In the Works 207

Not yet rated 2

Check out: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/o...

George Bush Scorecard

President Bush made a lot of promises during his 2000/2004 presidential campaign. The record shows it was all talk. He has too many to list so please go to link below to see for yourself. But you don’t have to go too far because you are experiencing his failures today…

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/2004/...

Clinton Scorecard

The Congressional Budget Office reported a budget surplus between the years 1998 and 2000, during the last three years of Clinton's presidency. After a failed attempt at health care reform, he attempted to fulfill another campaign promise to overturn the policy banning openly gay men and women from serving in the armed forces garnered criticism from the left for being too tentative in promoting gay rights and from the right who opposed any effort to allow gays to serve. Congress inserted the ban into a defense spending bill which Clinton signed, but he subsequently modified the ban by implementing a Department of Defense directive known as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", which allowed gay people to serve in the armed services. He supported ratification of the North American Free Trade Agreement by the U.S. Senate. He also expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit, a subsidy for low-income workers. According to Whitney Tilson and Glenn Tongue, "During the 1990s, the Clinton administration pushed Fannie and Freddie to support more lending in low-income communities and used the Community Reinvestment Act to encourage (some would say coerce) banks to do same."

I just wanted to name a few things he accomplished from his pledge prior to his presidency to pro

#2

I just wanted to name a few things he accomplished from his pledge prior to his presidency to prove a point later. But as we know him today he is most famous for being the first president to ever create a balance budget surplus…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton

Reagan Scorecard

Reagan is the Republican’s champ and I would like to explore a little of his pledges because he seems to be the Republicans hero of a sort. As his scorecard reveals, Reagan spent his years as President attempting as he had promised to cut taxes, lessen people's reliance on government, and increase national defense. In his presidential time in office, the Iran-Contra Affair brought scandal to the presidency when it was discovered that the government had traded weapons for hostages. Though Reagan initially denied knowing about it, he later announced that it was "a mistake." I guess most forgot about this piece of history with Reagan. But overall, Ronald Reagan was president during the longest period of peacetime prosperity without recession or depression. He renewed self-confidence, stimulated economic growth, curbed inflation, increased employment and national defense.

A thought; it is pretty damn easy to do great when there aren’t any crises at home or abroad.

Jimmy Carter, George Bush Sr., and Harry Truman scorecard can be found at; http://en.wikipedia.org or also in the nationalarchives.org

Well it seems President Obama isn’t the worse ever president after all. His ratio promises rate is currently at approximately 60% in less than three years. That’s pretty damn good for one term giving the crisis he has been dealing with of late… But let's evaluate:

The Healthcare initiative that Clinton attempted to pass, Obama signed into law in 2010. The DADT policy of Clinton to sweep under the rug the burning issue of gay equality, Obama repealed which now allows civil unions for gays to move forward in their quest to live openly with freedom to the same equalities we all have rights too... Such legislation allowed another state to pass civil unions in New York for gays. His administration just signed a recent bill to cut the national defense spending of the Reagan years that will reduce useless military spending. He has enacted a timeline of bringing all troops home from Iraq leaving only a small number in arrears for training. He has drawn down troops from Afghanistan to be completed by 2012.

What’s disturbing is; Americans know George Bush mislead (lied) US about weapons of mass destruction, he didn’t’ know where Bin-Laden was, and knowingly allowed the Taliban’s to move to Afghanistan on his watch.

Did you not know when we were attack on 9/11 the US government allowed ALL of Bin Laden’s family to board planes a week later to retreat from the United States? Did you know Bush knew we were going to be attack prior to it happening? Don’t take my word for it check out this link and see utube video.

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/world/Bin-Laden-...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdXW1rlNyyU

It’s sad to say but four presidents have been looking for Bin Laden and here come the worse President ever by your standards ordered a military hit killing the number one enemy on the FBI’s list in less than three years in office… That should make you wonder… But the real question is; are your sentiments for this president based on not being in the know or emotionally driven assumptions?…

He has since STOP payments of $300 million yearly to Pakistan for supposedly helping the US fight the Taliban. In case you weren’t aware, Pakistan has received about $7.4 billion since 2001 from the US government. Hum, these payments capture a few of our GREAT presidents writing checks without a strategic plan to ever stop. No more since Obama. Maybe we can now use this money to help create jobs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43001186/ns/world_news...

Bush has never admitted to his lies and misdirection creating the collapse of powerhouse, America to this date. Even Reagan admitted to his lies when the truth became public. President Obama couldn't possibly be the worse. How could any president clean up the blunders of Bush in three years? It would and is simply impossible...

#Part 2 regarding socialism. Everyone harps that socialism is a bad thing in one hand but over 22 million Americans and counting are uninsured, on welfare, or using medical assistance from the government. That means when those Americans get sick or injured it is tax payer dollars in the emergency room or Medicaid and welfare from Uncle Sam which is socialism. Let’s venture to include educating our children. Children in America go to public schools that are funded by the government. It would be unthinkable to ask every Americans whether they can afford it or not to pay for their child’s education. Without the funding for public education (socialism) would America’s school system exist? When chatter rings out about socialism most forget they receive and take for granted those socialist programs they or known family member and friends depend on to survive. The fight right now held on Capitol Hill from Americans is not to touch social security and social service programs.

Let’s be clear and understand the value of socialism verses condemning the very essence of its worthiness…

Many are grateful today for what is believed to be a socialist presence in 2011...

Don't take my word for it ask those right here in Texas struggling to stay abreast with those social life lines that have kept them from being homeless and hungry...

There are a number of conclusion put forth in the expose' by ConsciouzMindz which fail the litmus test. First, it really does not matter how much Obama or any other president does to get rid of money spent on a particular item (i.e. Pakistan) if that money only ends up the the pile of "spent money" and the deficit nor the debt is reduced. That is simply robbing Peter to pay Paul. Two, the Bush Administration repeatedly warned Congress that the provisions put in place by the Fair Housing Act had created a situation in the financial community which was not healthy and needed to be addressed. The warnings fell on deaf ears and the mortgage market collapse. This bubble which eventually collapsed was the product of the Clinton Administration in simply another attempt at socialism in trying to use the government to leverage a home for even those totally unqualified for home ownership. The reins were relaxed so much that insanity took over where greed had not already run in. You speak of Obama using money saved in other places to "create jobs". For all the government wants to be and do, there is no basis to say that the government "creates jobs". The government, by reducing its presence and complications...i.e. shrinking...provides a regulatory climate in which the private sector makes a determination that invest in America is worthwhile and jobs spawn from those investments. Jobs are created because there is a "business need" for them and no other reason except for maybe the position of "temporary government census-taker". You speak of those things which our current taxpayer dollars buy as positive examples of socialism but the examples fall short of the true destination of socialism. If we look close, we are on that road now as only 51% of American wage earners pay in taxes which are retained and used by the government. With each passing year that number declines for a few reasons...population shrink, retirement attrition of the baby boomers, and then there are those that just say "to hell with it" why should I work when I can get most of what I want for free from the government. Eventually the government has to take more and more from less and less earners...call it what you want but it is redistribution of wealth. Finally, everyone says to hell with it because there is no individual reward in working anymore. Then you come to the full extent of what runaway socialism actually is. When the bulk of the people in a country are paying fair taxes at some level and some of that money is going for items which are of common value, i.e. education, then we are all deriving value from the tax dollar. When you quit working and receive the same value thanks to the government, the we start to sway the graph. Regardless of what spending shifts or so called cuts one wants to cite for Obama, the bottom line is the man and his Congress has increased the national debt load by 5 trillion dollars in less than three years...that number overrides any intention of reducing spending. A scorecard which gives someone credit for accomplishing an item outside of the will of the majority (i.e. healthcare)has some errors in its math. Accomplishing what the majority of people do not want is not an accomplishment...it's tyranny.WB

This is one of the most interesting, informative hubs I’ve read in a long time. I am stunned. I/we (the public of SA, excluding the economist who should know this) were under the impression America has all the money in the world. We tend to look up to America, we rely on America to lead the world and even to protect us and all countries against any kind of downfall, so figure my astonishment? Great hub, well presented and thoroughly rooted in facts.

@Poetvix

Let me start by saying if Fact Check isn’t an independent agency, I don’t know what to tell you. It is a nonpartisan agency in researching and debugging lies.… I know sometimes it hard to swallow the truth and sometimes it is unbelievable but FACTS IS FACTS… So, YES it is a credible INDEPENDENT agency. But let’s move on with my rebuttal.

I noticed you addressed a lot of my statements but fail to address the video and link about Mr. Bush and his lies. Was that not a credible video with credible findings by a credible team, THE PEOPLE….lol? Those were people who lost family members and demanding a full investigation in conjunction with the FBI and CIA’s investigation into what really happened. Its public information you know with about 22 pages sealed to protect Mr. Bush from being court marshaled. It will be hard to ever justify Mr. Bush’s presidency as Not BEING THE WORSE in modern history without question…

Anyway, you stated Obama push the deficit to 1.4 trillion… Hum lets break down how and when the deficit occurred and what it was and would grow to from the 8 years of Bush’s presidency.

1. When the Republican Party took office we had a surplus of $236.2 Billion from the Clinton hand off…

2. When Bush left the presidency he left America with a deficit of 1.2 trillion. The simple fact is that Obama inherited a federal deficit of $1.2 trillion on the day he was sworn in 2009.

Barely two weeks earlier, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office issued its regular "Budget and Economic Outlook" document, stating:

The federal fiscal situation in 2009 would be dramatically worse than it was in 2008. Under the assumption that current laws and policies remain in place (that is, not accounting for any new legislation), CBO estimates that the deficit this year would total $1.2 trillion, more than two and a half times the size of last year’s.

The federal government recorded a total budget deficit of $1.4 trillion in fiscal year 2009, about $960 billion more than the deficit incurred in 2008.

CBO projecting that the deficit for the year would be lower — about $1.3 trillion. Later, on Feb. 1, 2010, Obama unveiled a new budget that would push the current year’s deficit to a record $1.55 trillion, approximately. The new deficit figure comes out to an average of just under $130 billion per month. Bush’s lowest annual deficit was just under $158 billion in fiscal 2002. It reached nearly $459 billion in the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2008, and, as mentioned, it was on track to reach $1.2 trillion by the time Obama took office.

So how you could possibly justify or can’t believe these figures. In fact Obama added $1.0 Trillion more to the already 1.4 Trillion left by Mr. Bush to save the US from a depression...

Your reply: I question their figures at best. Are you truly willing to deny there is somewhat of a conflict of interest there at the very least?

I guess now the CBO budget record regarding the deficit isn’t facts… The CBO is INDEPENDENT and has NO interest at ALL. Now let’s keep it truthful. Give me facts if this isn’t true… Let’s move on.

You stated you were a teacher so I know you are aware that $1.2 trillion projected deficit is the result of bills signed by Republican President George W. Bush which grew substantially after Obama signed his stimulus bill and submitted his own budget. But even so, by the time the fiscal year ended Sept. 30, the actual deficit was $1.4 trillion,

The deficit is projection over a 10 year span. If Obama does nothing else, the spending already into law would reach $8 Trillion from the Republicans Bush Tax cuts, Bush’s expansion of Medicare to provide prescription drug coverage to NOT INCLUDE NO increased revenues to provide compensating the LARGEST expansion since Medicare was enacted.

The deficit you speak of is Bush’s and will always be Bush’s and neither you nor I can change those FACTS….lol…

I guess if Obama didn’t enact the stimulus I wonder if those $400 Thousand jobs a month under Bush would have increased. Sure it would have.… Let’s move on…

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/02/a-texas-size-whop... (INDEPENDENT AGENCY)…

Your next rebuttal was; Next, I quoted “increased employment” by somewhere in the range of over one and a half million jobs. A one and a half million plus range! You know, I have heard of various studies or testing measures by being off by a few percentage points but over one and a half million. PLEASE…

I see by your responses seem pure emotional and no fact check evidence. I do understand. But, YES it is true; Obama administration has created approximately 1.2 million jobs. Let me provide the factual numbers…

The CBO (lol) states calculations are made by taking the money spent so far and estimates of the stimulus act’s impact on spending and revenue, arrived at its figures using evidence of how earlier policies have affected the economy as well as various economic models. The agency’s numbers were remarkably consistent with its estimates from March 2009, when it projected that 600,000 to 1.5 million jobs would be created or saved and real GDP would be 1.1 percent to 3.0 percent higher than it would have been without the stimulus. U.S. GDP grew at an inflation-adjusted annual rate of 1.9% in the first three months of 2011. That was up from the 1.8% growth the government previously estimated. See the Wallstreet Journal link… (Credible)

You said: Their predictions are never right. There is no way to prove it.

Yes there is see Wallstreet Journal…

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527023045...

You said: Some of us believe anything and everything we see in print or hear from someone in authority. We can no longer afford the luxury of blind trust in those who disseminate information nor the misinformation they spread is in intentionally misleading or not. We must examine it from all angles including who it comes from and how it may benefit them especially when it comes from the same people that just gave away billions of dollars of our money.

Everything I present is from research. From research we discovered Christopher Columbus DIDN’T discover America after all. History books are now being changed… I had to give that example before I proceeded on…

I supply the links of credible sources in no way connected to the administration that have no interest what so ever... If we the people START searching for the truth you are bound to find it. I don’t watch TV or listen to the radio. I read, research and research… You are a teacher you should know this information. Let me proceed…

You said: As for asking the employees of General Motors, I don’t have to. I concede completely that they would be unemployed without the bailout. It’s a terrible thing. It’s also not the taxpayer’s responsibility to keep an ailing company afloat.

Thank you for conceding, it’s notable… But why do you think it is terrible that the taxpayer’s shouldn’t have to be responsible for keeping afloat ailing companies to prevent more job lost? Then, I take it you agree with the Obamacare plan? In a nutshell, it states EVERYONE should be responsible for paying for their OWN healthcare verses tax dollars. Similar to having car insurance IN CASE you hit someone. If not, than those who don’t have it in 2014, let’s start turning people away at the door of the emergency room…? This is sure to start and new heated conversation. I just don’t see why people don’t get it. Most talk about Obamacare but very few have READ the book…lol… It will be a good tool in the coming years. I know most will disagree, but before you do take the time to read it….Its public!!!

Still at Poetvix

You stated: I just did a little research on that nonpartisan committee you quoted. I found that they estimated each job created by stimulus cost the American taxpayers $228,055.00. EACH JOB!

You stated you did a little research, hum I’m not trying to be insensitive but you must do more. In the spirit of understanding what the American people contribute each year for the use of the government, $228,000.00 is like $5 to what is needed.

#2

Government Accountability Office (GAO), Congressional Budget Office, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) and the U.S. Treasury Department are agencies that report that the federal government is facing a series of important financing challenges. In the short-run, tax revenues have declined significantly due to a severe recession and tax policy choices, while expenditures have expanded for wars, unemployment insurance and other safety net spending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal...

This is WHY it is so important that the BUSH TAX cuts expire for good, and the 2 percent of the wealthiest Americans should start paying MORE in taxes each year here forth. In the long-run, expenditures related to healthcare programs such as Medicare and Medicaid are growing considerably faster than the economy overall as the population matures and will GO BUST if we don’t get revenues from the rich, freeze spending for things that aren’t relevant, and possibly add money back in spent on TWO BUSH wars..

I will address this last statement of your and get back to address the others later. But I had to comment on this last statement.

You said: As for out of business signs, look around. I don’t know where you are but I’m seeing more and more of them and by the way compared to the rest of the nation, the Texas economy is looking really good.

I don’t quite understand what you mean that you see more and more “Out of Business” signs where I am that you are rebutting from my statement. I said, because of the stimulus you see less “Out of Business” signs because of the stimulus money and tax breaks for business owners...

You stated: Texas economy is looking really good. Well my friend, that’s because YOUR governor “Rick Perry” TOOK $27,834,756,925 of Obama’s stimulus money… but rejected unemployment stimulus for the people in his state. And Rick wants to be president. Are you kidding me!!!

http://projects.propublica.org/recovery/

My suggestion is to base your decisions on FACTS… because Knowledge is Power. Stop avoiding hard true evidence to bicker and making yourself believe that which is not really true…

poetvix

THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO START WITH.IN SEPT. THE SUPER COMMITTEE WILL MEET TO FIND $1.1 TRILLION IN SAVINGS. For starters before Medicare and Medicaid are cut ,the US Government should start cutting the waste. $4TRILLION WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM. check this out!

The Senator Coburn Report July 21, 2011

DEFICIT WASTE IN the US GOVERNMENT see video

Back in the black, the SOLUTION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs

OBAMA SAYS'' that everyone must have skin in the game ''

can you believe him?

Obama is on a bus tour campaign to 3 Midwest states

a campaign swing ???

https://hubpages.com/politics/PresidentBarackObama...

Here is my list for cleaning the debt:

Quit using the military to force "rogue" nations" into democracy and eliminatinng nuclear weapons.

Eliminate the Department of Energy which was established to reduce dependence on foreign oil. It went from 30% to over 70%!

Eliminate all Secret Service protection for previous leaders after a short term. There is no need to protect nancy Reagan or Barbara Bush in their 80's!

Eliminate or disallow incoming presidents to refurbish the White House with exhorbitant taxpayer monies. Curtains do not cost $900,000!

Reduce the White House Staff. It does not need 54 butlers!

Reduce or eliminate all entitlements. Jefferson was right when he said the country will go broke once its citizens vote funds from itself!

The government, in particular, the executive and legisative, must return to their constitutional charges. They were not authorized to become engaged in ownership or lending withing the marketplace. We are a free market enterprise, not a mixed socialist one! Or are we?

We must enforce tariffs and duties on cheap imports that destroy our ability to compete in the global markets.

We must discontinue practice of assisting other countries financially. I do not see where the Constitution authorizes this activity.

Discontinue use of National Guard units to fight our wars. They are for the states and again only to be used sparingly by executive branch per the Constitution.

I have more but these are starters. Oh that somewhere somehow these Ivy League, PHD lawyers would use the brains they have. it is not that difficult.

poetvix

''KNOWLEDGE IS POWER ''

The battle for political positions will not change when Congress comes back to Washington in Sept. The President's announcing his plan after labor day will be nothing but political posturing. President Obama will propose another stimulus to boost the economy knowing that the House Republicans will not except. his plan as it is similar to the previous failed $ 1 trillion stimulus package plan. Upon Congress returning, Speaker Boehner should prioritize working on the approval of the 2012 budget, the budget needs to debated before any new legislation is on the Senate floor. The Senate has not yet submitted a 2012 budget. Fiscal year 2012 begins oct. 1,2011.

Congress should be reminded that any increase in spending requires cuts to support the spending as per the PAY-GO LAW signed by President Barack Obama. On 6/29/10 I Wrote About PAY-GO

2/13/10 2:04 PM EST

President Barack Obama is hailing pay-as-you-go budget legislation he signed Friday night as one in a series of crucial steps needed to snap Washington out of a destructive pattern of overspending.

“Now, Congress will have to pay for what it spends, just like everybody else,” Obama said in his radio and Internet address released Saturday morning. “After a decade of profligacy, the American people are tired of

politicians who talk the talk but don’t walk the walkwhen it comes to fiscal responsibility. It’s easy to get up in front of the cameras and rant against exploding deficits. What’s hard is actually getting deficits under control. But that’s what we must do.”

President Barak Obama promised open and transparent government. Where is the 2011 BUDGET Mr. President. What is the hold up in next years spending budget?

The PAYGO compels new spending or tax changes to not add to the federal deficit. Not to be confused with pay-as-you-go financing, which is when a government saves up money to fund a specific project. Under PAYGO rules a new proposal must either be "budget neutral"

or offset with savings derived from existing funds.[1] The goal of this is to require those in control of the budget to engage in the diligence of prioritizing expenses and exercising fiscal restraint. The interest on the national debt is $1 billion a day and rising. The unfunded liabilities of the country is $104 trillion.

The President and the Democrat controlled Congress neglected to follow the law not to long after signing the PAY-GO law, THE DEFICITS CONTINUED TO GROW AT A RECORD PACE

WILL OBAMA'S '' NEW '' PLAN BE BELIEVABLE or just another broken record?

We as a country are never really going to see a balanced budget again. All this crisis is, is a ploy to keep our minds off what is really going on in Washington. The Dems know that the Balanced Budget issue is a push button issue with Republicans and Tea Partiers, so it is being used while we take our eyes off this Health Care Socialism that is being quietly passed. It's an old trick.

This Hub inspired me to try harder in my writing. Great job! :)

Great hub and funny pics.

All symptoms of the CAUSE.

When you understand that our entire economy is based on what is called "Fractional Reserve Banking" you quickly understand that ALL money is loaned into existence. Therefore ALL money is debt. Excepting coin.

So with all money being debt how do you EVER get out of debt? The answer of course is to ABOLISH THE SYSTEM OF DEBT.

Fractional Reserve Banking allows Banks to Create Money from nothing. They only have to keep 10% of what is deposited in reserve. This means they can keep your full deposit as an asset on their books PLUS any loans of the 90% not kept in reserve also become assets on the books. This is DEBT in action. Money from nothing.

Add to this the Federal Reserve/Central Bank which is NOT a Government Agency but a PRIVATELY OWNED BANK creating money from nothing with ZERO Reserve. That's right they just print the money.

Now when they print money they don't just give it to the Government... they SELL it to the Government by "Buying" Treasury Notes. Those notes all have interest due. So not only do they get to print the money, they then use that printed money to Buy Paper that requires Tax Payers to pay interest on the money they just printed.

This system is a total scam. And it is now collapsing under it's own weight.

Debt is not Capital. You can not perpetually print and distribute money.

This is why I say THE ABOVE ARE ALL JUST SYMPTOMS OF THE REAL PROBLEM WHICH IS FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING UNDER THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

Until you eliminate the Fed and Fractional Reserve banking there will never be any way possible to be "Out of Debt". What is coming is a complete collapse of the system and the US Dollar. A great depression like that which has never been seen before.

This also helped me figure the situation out

http://youtu.be/x3l4mbAbTa0

Some good suggestions in here. I like the concepts and sooner or later we'll have to face the fact that issues with entitlements are structural.

I have a couple related Hubs that you may find interesting:

https://hubpages.com/politics/An-Unorthodox-Way-to...

https://hubpages.com/politics/A-Few-Ideas-to-Cut-O...

and more specifically on election reform:

https://hubpages.com/politics/No-Confidence

Trolling some of the comments I see there are some with a blatantly partisan trend. That's our real problem, we've allowed ourselves (as unique and individual as we are) to be divided on a linear, left-right paradigm. Until we as The People get over that our problems will only grow worse.

poetvix

’We have a revenue problem’’--’’-the major problem is revenues’’ THE MAIN PROBLEM IS WASTEFUL SPENDING

’’

Yes the government has a problem , maybe if the people were working ( 9.1% unemployment ),the treasury would get what Obama is preaching about ( REVENUE ). Obama has yet to mention reducing government and waste in government agencies doing duplicate work.

On Sat. Aug 19,2011, Obama remarked that he has 6 months of bad luck. One could believe that the terrorist ( tea party members of Congress ) were a part of his problems for the last 8 months

Obama will submit a JOB (after almost 3 years in office ) plan shortly .

poetvix

The debt crisis has been temporary resolved until the 2012 budget is approved.Freinds of obama, billionaire warren buffet says that illionaires and billionaiares should pay more taxes, what a joke.

Those 14 million out of work understand that our government is part of the problem. President Obama says ''I know your hurt '' REALLY.

CLOSE TO 50,000 ON FOOD STAMPS and 14 million collecting a ''living wage'' government pay check ( UNEMPLOYMENT ). Just thought to inject '' living wage '' only because one hears the unions use the phrase when discussing the private sector businesses.

If millionaires or billionaires want to pay more, have them hire more people. Surely it is better for the people to have the money rather than an incompetent and wasteful government. If the people are working and companies are making profit, the government in the end will get their share (revenue ) for doing NOTHING.

America is definitely off in the wrong direction. Our govt needs to change its course and fix up asap. http://www.micocrane.com

I may not agree on all your points but definitely you have very good insights here. I totally agree with your 2nd point that there must be changes to be done in the midicare/disability system because a lot of people are really taking advantage and abusing the system.

poetvix

The taxpayers need to make a lot of noise to be heard.

A call to your Congressional Representatives ( # in the phone book )and express your thoughts. Another way is to go to the Senate and House websites for e--mail #'s numbers. Put Harry Reid, Durbin, Speaker Boehner and Pelosi on the top of your '' get the job done, if you can't, get your bags packed,you won't be in Congrees the next time around ''.

BE LOUD AND ANGRY with respect!

The problem will only be erased when the problem is realized and admitted too - congress is a long way from that as the recent debt crisis showed with nothing but papering of the problem. Unfortunate to repay it would mean a dramatic pick up int he public sector and a decrease in the socialization of America - this all seems unlikely for now in America. In time the people will more and more understand and there will be movement towards repair then - but not until then.

Sorry poetvix. I read no comments. I don't want to be swayed into fake accounting, etc. These debts and all the money involved may as well be outright lies.

Regardless of debt - THERE WILL BE DEBT. This is a DEBT DRIVEN SOCIETY. These folks will NEVER EVER NOT IN A MILLION YEARS PAY OFF ANY DEBT.

This is slavery. Get used to it. It's slavery with perks. It's managing your life, your time, your brain and soul.

I'm really not sure if folks are "getting it".

This bu$ine$$ a$ u$ual will take over EVERY RESOURCE, EVERY COUNTRY, and we'll have sweat shops, factory farms, and horseshyt for everybody.

If you're voting - you're adding to the problem.

THE DECK IS STACKED WITH A$$HOLES!

Vote democratic - hope in one hand and shyt in the other.

Vote republican or teaparty and encourage the largest group of criminals, thieves, and murderers this world had ever seen.

This deck is from Satan. The dice are made by Satan. This game board BELONGS TO SATAN.

A vote for this political system is a vote for Satan.

Lesser of two evils= Satan. Like it or not - this deck is from hell.

The Bible says so and for any Christian to vote for this mess is validating slavery. Any religious person should abstain from the evil of voting.

The liars tell us over and nauseusly over that our great military is keeping war from our shoes. LI*ES! Every year the murderers plant themselves at highschools and TAKE OUR MOST PATRIOTIC CHILDREN - AND SEND THEM TO HELL.

Well - screw GW, screw, Clinton, screw Obama, screw the next savior from these political lies.

Afghanistan is in North Carolina, South Carolina, California to frickin New York. Iraq is in Georgia.

Our military is not being used for the people. Our military is used for business.

What is the next catastrophe that OUR government will cause, produce, orchestrate - to bring us more into there control?

Debt? Forget about debt in this Satan run country.

These lawyers will do nothing of value.

Debt? Get people like jon ewall off their lazy asses. That fool and millions of other with jobs like "insurance broker", real-estate developers, etc.

These people create NO

PRODUCT and they LEECH the money that should go to health-care.

Jon Ewall with ideas? O God have mercy. Go get ideas from a lawyer. It'll do just as good. Insurance salesmen coming up with real ideas? Give me a break. He's a leech. Jon Ewall is the "welfare mother" he hates.

Jon Ewall is the laziest pig on the pages. He's on welfare of the corporate sort.

I will go further and say - I doubt people like "jon" have ever done a days work in their lives.

He sucks the life from others. He provides NO PRODUCT - NO SERVICE.

Debt? Get rid of insurance peddlers, lawyers, stock market jackasses, etc. - Put these lazy freaks to work.

America and the world will be better without them.

Debt? When you catch a "civil servant" stealing from America - SEND THEIR ASSES TO A WAR ZONE.

But people like "jon" who never work. never produce AN ACTUAL PRODUCT - send them packing. Take their homes. Take all their possessions.

If Jon and other insurance peddlers, real-estate criminals and the like - WILL NOT DO SOMETHING TANGIBLE FOR AMERICA- SEND THEM PACKING.

When a president, congressman, judge, lawyer lies to America - GIVER THEM THE AXE THAT THAT WILL LAST A SHORT LIFETIME.

But Jon and his ilk will not work. They will not produce one single product for the existence of human life. But they have advice for the budget.

With the last breath that my God gives me - MAKE THEIR PUNISHMENT OF SELF-INDULGENCE TO THE MAX - BE PUNISHMENT TO THE MAX.

Get a real job Jon. Get off your suit. Suits are the problem with America and the world.

The "suits" are seen at disasters. The suits will take a photo-op and take a picture of "sleeves rolled up". Screw your suits. Suits are frauds. Suits do not work. They suck!

poetvix

Thank you for allowing all types of replies to your hub. The tea party members of Congress have driven many of the so-called liberals into fanatical raves. MD has a problem accepting the whole truth about what is happening in our government.

MD hasn’t come out of his cave for a long time and simply needs a lot of help. Hubbing is a wonderful place to air out one’s anxieties . President Obama said not too long ago ‘’ it’s time for everyone to practice civility in the country ‘’.

MD think about it,‘’ do unto others as you would want them to do to you ‘’ .

Have a great day and don’t forget to see the doctor, please

poetvix, MD OWES YOU AN APOLOGY for the garbage he wrote on your hub.

poetvix

THERE IS AN OLD SAYING '' you're judged by the company you keep ''. MD's attack on me personally is what happens when liberal fanaticals try to express themselves.

Keep hubbing and have a good day.

I just want mouths like Jon to work for a living. Take your suit off. You'll never work with a suit on. Yet Jon has so much right wing nonsense and unpatriotic nationalistic drivel he makes me sick. How's that?

Micky Dee is not running for mayor. To raise this right wing war machine with the rhetoric he spews is inconceivable.

I just want these right wingers to actually dig a hole. Build homes - with their hands. I want to see some product from and insurance agent.

I want to see justice in American courts.

But these frivolous things like my demand for FREEDOM of SPEECH is ignored and yet Jon and his ilk wave the flag of corporate America until the whole world burns for bigpigbusiness.

Meanwhile this moron calls me a liberal and I have never voted for a democrat.

Anyone with a difference of opinion is labeled.

Well Jon - you're lazy.

You've never done a days work in your life.

By most definitions you are on welfare.

You create NOTHING for the world.

Call me liberal?

You're a lazy coward who would NEVER defend his country.

No- I can't stand you blood sucking lawyers, insurance extortionists, real-estate developers, stock market experts ad flipping nauseum.

You create nothing and you are a DRAG on on country and the world.

"MD hasn’t come out of his cave for a long time and simply needs a lot of help. Hubbing is a wonderful place to air out one’s anxieties . President Obama said not too long ago ‘’ it’s time for everyone to practice civility in the country ‘’.MD think about it,‘’ do unto others as you would want them to do to you ‘’ .

I do think about it Jon. I think you should respect the Vet. I think you should fight for your country.

I think you should work.

I tnhink you should drop your tired a$$ republican BS and stand for something.

Here's a thought for Jon the all American man - my hubs of truth are canned. My right to free speech is CANNED Jon. What will you do?

Nothing. You are DO NOTHING - insult - rhetoric - lies.

Don't just do something Jon. SIT THERE!

American my a$$.

You want to call this Veteran anything? You want to say I'm in a cave? Well I know where your head is as well as most of your party.

DRAW A LINE poetvix.

Life isn't just about getting ANY readers to stop by regardless of their twisted view. They want ME to work. They want ME to die for their country.

They want me to suffer at the hands of lawyers from hell.

Where is Jon's stance on FREEDOM OF SPEECH and where is yours.

The fact is this way of life keeps us all scrounging for money, any resource. People are forced to endure anything for money, attention, praise, FOOD.

Look at Jon's reference to liberals.

Are you SITTING ON THE FENCE poetvix?

Get off the fence and stand against this tyranny and THE lie. THIS WORLD AND JON'S PARTY IS OWNED BY BEELZEBUB. Yeah the other party too.

Believe in God? Doesn't matter. The words of the Bible describe this rule right here right now. Either this is a Christian nation - or you right wing freaks let the Christians go.The Bible is VERY plain.

Sure - I say choose a side. I don't want to visit anyone who coddles these criminals and if the wholesale of the murder of our children for generations isn't enough then what is.

Sure. I say choose a side.

You are not FOR free speech or you should leave the country.

The name of this hub is now ludicrous.

How do we fix the debt. I say we call the working people liberals. The people who want SOMETHING just SOMETHING out of this America after going to war SOMETHING - let's call them liberal.

When someone on the hubpages writes something this Jon or other repugnant jackass doesn't like REVOKE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Write a hub about freedom of speech.

You and Jon. You're a team.

I want NO part of lukewarm patriotism!

I want FIRE in my patriotism!

I want the truth and I want to shine for a benevolent God.

You choose.

Lie or truth.

I will not be back until you decide what you want.

If it's lukewarm Christianity keep it. I want the fire of God and truth in my life and this Jon and his party are perpetuating the reign of the great evil one.

I will have no part of nationalism, fascism.

PUT JON TO WORK.

SEND JON TO AFGHANISTAN!

Let Jon earn his patriotism.

If you will not contribute a worthwhile service - try not speaking Jon. You never leave your house.

Yep. I say if you don't support free speech- I have no idea why I would visit any of your hubs. I don't have it. Now- what are you "patriots" going to do. I say nothing. Jon is not a patriot and never will be.

YOU HAVE TO SERVE. YOU HAVE TO GIVE A USEFUL SERVICE FOR YOUR COUNTRY AND NOT JUST TAKE!

By the way - this "debt" is engineered so that - get ready - IT WILL NEVER EVER BE PAID OFF. NEVER AND EVER NEVER.

And - the pig$ at the trough - well they get their money before it's printed. This debt will never ever be paid off. You will outlive me. I hope everyone does. But you remember what I have said in this box right here THIS ONE!

This "debt" will never ever be paid off while this tyranny chokes our earth.

Go ahead. Elect another lawyer. Aid and abet. This debt - it ain't going to get paid. That's one more thing you're lied to about.

What is the contribution of Jon? What is his service.

Are you incapable of seeing that he has none? Yet he is quick to point me out as a "liberal".

You can't see through his rhetoric. You must need his input. Why? What experience does this anti-liberal in the work field? But I'm one of those liberals.

I am a Vietnam Veteran and I am sick of the Jons that fuel the fire for war while they wave the flag and yet if even a Vietnam Veteran is against ENDLESS FLIPPING WAR I am a liberal?

You are blind.

You're a teacher?

You should be sent home for failure to do your homework and yet you expect it from your students.

Whatever accusation I've made that Jon doesn't like - have his lawyer contact me. He's got one. Want to bet?

Get an educatikon. Go to youtube. Watch videos you don't like. Watch different views.

Netflix has some great (sometimes) true history.

But you want me to tell you about the birds and the bees, the invention of the wheel when you have no education but what is batted around mainstream news.

Hey - do you think for a millisecond that Jon wants a different view?

I've read Jon's malarkey on a bunch of hubs. You figure it out. I have stuff to do. But whenever I can I will call Jon as I see him.

He called me a liberal.

I am a Vietnam Veteran and he can insult me but I will call him on his unpatriotic patriotism.

Write a hub about the denial of FREE SPEECH.

Patriots. HOW? Because a person owns a flag and spouts rhetoric of division? Hatred?

Well we all have to hate something and I hate a liar - thus I hate these political parties. I hate false patriotism and this party of Jon's stinks. And if my message doesn't reflect a bit of what this hub's title is about then all the education in the world obviously cannot help you. Now I'm done. I don't have time for anyone that is not concerned with the prosperity of their fellow man. Write a hub. Protest that a Vietnam Veteran has been denied FREEDOM OF SPEECH HERE. But you won't and Jon won't. FAKE patriots just mouth patriotism. They ooze patriotism from their loud mouths to their bumper stickers. They praise Veterans they don't give a fig about. Support the Veteran. Well I call you on your patriotism. I call Jon on his patriotism. You're just paper patriots. Get freedom of speech for everybody. Make a difference or just write drivel. Y'all be happy together.

poetvix

One should not judge a book by it's cover ?

You have a long way to go to experience the trials of life. ONLY for you, my resume

My job past 10 years, 24/7 caregiver to family member

Assistant leader boy scout leader

13 years father's club ( high school ,3 sons )

Oldest son - teacher - #2 son Vietnam, veteran now working for government -- oldest daughter nurse- #3 son construction business and #2 daughter medical coding field

MS is so far off base, we should really feel sorry for those who promote hatred.

Hoping all goes a lot better in future replies.

God bless and let’s pray for those who need help!

I AM AN INDEPENDENT

Hoped you enjoyed reading my hubs

poetvix

FREE SPEECH IS A WONDERFUL THING.I have allowed MS's replies on my hubs for the simple reason to show the world who and what the gentleman stands for and believes.

MONEY,Hate and GREED has taken over in parts of our government.

VOTE FOR VIX FOR THE BUDGET FIX. I couldn't read all the comments because it took twenty minutes to scroll through. Your wisdom exceeds your years. Thank you.

VIX- The fact that you recognize the dissension and division makes you an adamantly better candidate. VOTE VIX FOR THE FIX. Hugs.

Buy American! If we stick to buying american made products, supporting the american way, may then our economy might make a come back.

The whole mistake is that you concentrate much on state spending leaving apart the role of citizens to revive the economy. Leaving aside this you have done your home work pretty well before starting this hub. I really appreciate your hard work.

Awesome article and I have to agree with you a lot of people do abuse and use the system I've seen it myself. I voted you up for useful and interesting. Look forward to reading more.

On this page RIGHT HERE- Jon says Right HERE:"THERE IS AN OLD SAYING '' you're judged by the company you keep ''. MD's attack on me personally is what happens when liberal fanaticals try to express themselves."

This is rhetoric.

As far as the Golden Rule rule you bet. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. I've seen Jon's rhetoric over the hubs/on my hubs. I see no lack of support for a system of haters like Jon. It is not Micky Dee that started this foolishness. You read my hubs FROM DAY ONE ON HUBPAGES! MY FIRST HUB WAS ABOUT THEW FORUM AND ATTACKS.

But I will NOT pretend that the Bible has NO validity

You people do that. Not Micky Dee.

You believe what you want. Believe in God or not. Believe in the Golden Rule or just hit somebody with it. I don't care what Jon's relatives are doing. I've seen Jon's work right here. And these remarks of someone being "liberal" is not "independent thought". I'm calling you all on your paper patriotism. That's all.

Does the court system work here in the US? Where? Is that on YOUR agenda. No.

What will you fix?

Nothing. You won't protect free speech. You don't care about the injustice system that incarcerates more people than any court system in the world.

What will you fix? Nothing. You will prop these BS parties up. This page and most comments are just rhetoric.

This is a debt driven society with sidewalks going to nowhere and you pretend otherwise.

Abandon the nation? Of course you have. You've abandoned the Bible first. WHAT ARE YOU TOLD BY THE BIBLE?

Christian nation? Get off the pot and let the Christians go. Admit it. These "inactions" of rhetoric help NOBODY.

And I will not apologize for trying to tear down this lie of politics. It's business as usual and there will be a swing to the left, a swing to the right, and there will be endless war. I will FIGHT FOREVER AGAINST THIS ENDLESS WAR. It has nothing to do with a benevolent God and we do not serve a benevolent God then let's not serve one. I serve a God who hates war. I serve a God of love and truth and these parties represent neither.

BRAVA! I am applauding you! You are my new Hero and I think YOU should be our next President. OMG! Finally, someone that really has it Right! I'm so happy to read this hub and get to know you. I already knew I liked you, but I didn't know you were this brilliant. :)

God bless you KT Banks. Let's stop the fascism or at least identify it. They want a good American to take their bullying tight on. They can kill me now.

Hate, bullying, lies - and - murder. The hijack-murder of our children and future is on their hands not mind. I'm speaking against all of them. These parties are un-American. And you're right - when a repugnant disagrees they call you liberal. Then they get amnesia. America is the US of Amnesia, Apathy.

I was talking about This HUB. I think it is Brilliant.

Sorry KT. I left your comment at another hub.

I'm not running for mayor poetvix. I see fights over trivial pursuits while the world burns. Secret government. Hidden agenda. Shabby investigations. I see the debt as fantasy and misdirection. Donald Rumsfeld said the day before p11. that he didn't know where billions of dollars went. Well the whole accounting office went. My hubs show a good deal about life and experiences. And- all I see is running off at the mouth. If you believe that another lawyer from Harvard is going to make a difference in America like the last one and the one before him and... I'm saying what it is... it is a stacked deck. And I will speak for God - I am against endless war. And America should not be about secret government.

Here's a/the bottom line for me. I am a Vietnam Veteran. Being a Veteran of the 'let's promote capitalism for the few" war- oh you folks know it as the 'let's stop communism" war.

Now we could go into the history of the war and stop by James Watkins and read a republican's story about Vietnam or we could read a lot better version from a Vietnamese or- we could stop by my hubs and read my rebuttal of the hub by James Watkins.

I wrote a rebuttal because the right wing cannot write but a few words of truth at the time. This is is the jist of the situation.

How long did it take for Jon to expose himself? He calls me a liberal - or he makes the liberal insult and then says he's a libertarian.

I am not going to worship Satan. I will not brainwash children to salute a flag that is waved by republican.

Yes indeed TREAT EACH OTHER RIGHT IS THE GOLDEN RULE.

How much proof do I need that the republican party will never be for ALL THE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY? How can you not see? Business as usual means that this party will find a way to invade any country with our newly educated children.

There is no infrastructure to keep them out of war. Books are written about invasions into South Central America, the islands, blah, blah.

I"n just the last few years they (nonono they would never admit it) kidnapped President Chavez from Venezuela. And this is no discussion about who or what Chavez is. This was YET ANOTHER elected leader of a South American country removed by AMERICAN jackasses. I think they called themselves something like the Committee for Zealous Capitalists for Democracy or something.

But how much evidence do I need? And you want to take America back. From whom?

The same type priveledged people who run the government now ran America in 1776. After fighting the Revolutionary War only the property owners voted. After fighting in the Revolutionary War - blacks were chained until the Civil War. They had a slight reprieve and then America's FRAUDULENT parties had the election of 1878 -I think it was (please forgive the memory but- BEFORE ANYONE CAN REFUTE ONE REPUBLICAN LIE A BILLION MORE ARE TOLD). Then blacks were back on their heads in chains in the South because that "deal" between two EVIL parties revoked RECONSTRUCTION and blacks while chained urinated together, worked together, pooped in chains, slept in chains and they DIED in chains. Of course Martin Luther King made great advances in the 1960s.

But people like Strom Thurmond were still alive. There's a statue of this freak in Edgewood, SC.

Here we are in 2011. It's been 10 years since the cover-up of the World Trade Towers bombing, air-plane flying into the towers, something else at the Pentagon. Distortions of the tragedy are too many. The discrepancies are too many. The families doubt, question, and disbelieve the result of the shoddy investigation.

I could write until my carpal tunnel seized my hand up. And you want to take America back.

Regardless of really cute things Uncle Thom Jefferson wrote about his America that didn't exist then and doesn't exist now - America is ruled by Satan. And how does Satan run such a wonderful country? With help from Jons.

Yep- my hubs of truth ARE BANNED/put in limbo. There is truth in them to ponder, to wonder, and and take another look.

So let me seem rude. I will be rude by standards of "let's kill but be nice when we do".

As I wrote almost 2 years ago and hundreds of hubs ago and 100,000 readers ago - I don't care if I am followed. I don't care if I am read another minute.

I came here because I liked you. I got here and here is Jon. Don't tell me what a "Jon" is. I have the experience with brainwashing political snakes and whether you like it or hubpages I don't care.

This rhetoric spewing republicanism is SATANIC.

And yes I will call Jon down on it. I will call every Republican on it. Libertarian. Right. LIBERAL jumps out of his mouth.

No - you mbe nice. I'll show you MY hubs where these freaks have taken their poops. These repugnants started this stuff decades and hundreds of years ago. Yeah party names change. But these folks will pick at thread of info until the complete message is forgotten./ These people will tell a million lies as you try to refute one. They deny your hubs, your work, and you stew over this and that while they make up a million more lies.

Well poetvix - if I don't have freedom of speech - nobody has it. Not my will - it just does not exist.

What do people have? WHAT DO POOR PEOPLE HAVE?

So HERE is the CRUX.

Support FREEDOM OF SPEECH for everybody on the hubpages and out in the solid world.

You support RIGHT HERE. YOU ARE "RIGHT" HERE. (wrong and there is no left after election).

I no longer care to rub shoulders with people/hubbers who coddle these "liberal" rhetoric spewing nationalists. Fascism can be really nasty. Look at Germany, Italy under Mussolini.

American actually think that fascism occurs SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Meanwhile- gated communities get sidewalks and hiking trails while poor Americans live in apartments, boxes, trailers in flood plains - AND they walk in the mud pushing baby-carriages and have to cross 4 lane highways.

This is the truth. This is one truth.

Yep. I love a BENEVOLENT God. The father of lies is Satan. There is not a word that I have written that would be a lie. I may insult people like Jon. I may insult you. If it takes insulting to snap some recognition that AT LEAST MICKY DEE will not swallow the lies, so be it.

Don't follow me. Don't read me. I came here because I liked you. I've stated my case. I will not follow you anymore. I do not seek out this evil to attack. One cannot walk around hubpages without seeing the lies. I sti9ck to my own hubs. You can check where I've been from my homer page. I will continue to fight against this false patriotism that these BS parties kill our children and the children of the world. My Jesus says "suffer the little children to come to me." Jesus would not kill them. I will not support the endless war. These parties are lies and I will continue to rant and run off at the mouth about true liberty - not just MONEY TO MAKE ONE FREE.

Just a word about Revelations - only virgins will fly into the heavens. How many people will really be called from driving their cars and nonsense? Doesn't matter. It matters not an iota about Revelations in the real picture. We are supposed to love our neighbor, treat each other as we would be treated. That doesn't mean SIDEWALKS FOR THE RICH AROUND THEIR HOMES WHILE OTHERS WALK FROM APARTMENTS IN THE MUD.

Regardless of Revelations - we are to pray this prayer - "Our father, OUR GOD, that is in heaven, hallowed be your name, YOUR will be done, YOUR kingdom come, on YOUR EARTH (not the businessman's earth) as it is in heaven../"

Now if you think that poisoning the soil - with pigbigbusiness is God's will- WRONG. If you think poisoning the food, the air, the water is a good idea to promote jobs - we're only incurring more health problems that the "right wing" can't find the money for while the right wing has their healthcare.

So let me seem rude, insulting, and whatever you can think of but- it is Micky Dee that would writer a hub about the refusal of the freedom of speech. It is not the right wingers. If a right winger wrote one I would probably have to write a rebuttal.

But I'll continue. And I don't care to have one reader. I will not serve the Jons, the Johns, or the Loos.

But I have stuff to do. I don't need to support/follow futile conversation. My work is against it and I'm done. Good luck.

Right. I think repeating sound bytes like "liberal" will solve a lot. Nope. It's most of America that does not do it's homework and we can have that contest whenever you folks would like. But this debt will not be paid off. A lawyer will be a lawyer decades from now and doing what they've been doing. I have decades of experience with business and how business is really run right down to the small business and bicycle shop. I have vast experience with the injustice system but if you read my hubs you would know that. But occasionally you have visited my hubs just to trump up some visitors. And I'm quite at ease with not visiting you again. I'm just following the comments. But - I have experience and I've seen what people have suffered in corporate environments. I will speak straight at all people. I can prove on any fay you want what I say about courts. And I could write a book here but you and your friends are the ones wearing blinders. Mine have been off. Give up on America? Run like I've seen? I gave up on your fantasy long ago.

Goodbye dear poetvix. Just one more word for you. Jon called me a liberal. He says he's an "independent. Yeah. Independents are quick to call others liberal. Jon is a liar. You do not call people the BRANDS without being republican. He lied. I'll continue to stand against endless war and humanity. I'll be against liars. Bye bye.

You emailed me.

Excellently written. You make some really valid points as you can see from all the comments to this hub. Yes, we all know what needs to be done to avert the debit disaster; however, who will take these steps? That's the problem. The people we are electing don't care about what is best for the country. They only care about being re-elected. We have created a monster in the way our politics and government work. The really intelligent people don't run for office because they don't want every skeleton in their closet under a microscope which is what we do in this country. No one who has a life has a perfect past and everyone in this country grapples with marriage and divorce at sometime during his/her life. Our politics have become so partisan that, at this point, there is no hope of negotiating or compromise and that is what a democratic type of government takes to be successful. We are so myopic about our individual causes that we fail to see "the big picture." Anyone who runs a household understands that when in debt you are owned by those you owe money to. We are owned by China and I rue the day they call in their notes and IOU's. We are really going to be in a world of hurt when that happens. How do you turn around a government and a society that is as far gone as ours is? Part of it is the result of the baby boom generation (of which I am a part) which is used to having everything their own way. We need to have a paradigm shift, but I don't see one on the horizon. May be YOU should run for office starting at the city, county or state level and see what you can accomplish.

suzettenaples

''We are owned by China and I rue the day they call in their notes and IOU's. We are really going to be in a world of hurt when that happens''.

President Obama said "The future is here," Obama said during his visit. "We're poised to transform the ways we power our homes and our cars and our businesses. ... And we are poised to generate countless new jobs, good-paying, middle-class jobs, right here in the United States of America."

NOTE THAT BILLIONS OF THE STIMULUS MONEY HAS GONE TO CHINA .

U.S. Representative Henry Waxman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce said the BANKRUPTCIES "are unfortunate warnings that the United States is in danger of losing its leadership position in the clean energy economy of the future ... We should be doing everything possible to ensure the United States does not cede the renewable energy market to CHINA and other countries."

But, in the United States, solar manufacturing plants are closing and the “green jobs” associated with them are evaporating. One may wonder why, but the economics are clear. Without massive SUBSIDIES ($9 BILLION ) these industries cannot survive, and without policies that force these products to be purchased, they can’t survive. COMPARE, the oil and natural gas subsidies are $ 4 billion and in addition the government receives a 18% royalty fee on top of federal taxes.

The $1 trillion Stimulus package has not brought unemployment down as promissed.

REVENUE WILL FIX THE DEBT CRISIS!

Business is owned by money. BigPigbusiness has taken jobs out of America. Who is big business Jon? There are no textiles in NC, SC, VA, ETC. Plants are closed while YOUR big business moves to Bangladesh and that isn't China. I could go on about sweat shops that your big business friends WHO SUPPLY ALL THE JOBS ACCORDING TO YOUR SPIEL.

poetvix - IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY COMMENTS YOU USE YOUR DELETE BUTTON. I HAVE NEVER HARASSED YOU OR ANYBODY.

But if you and/or Jon think I will not refute your lies when I can you are wrong not call your hub police or delete my comment but I will refute Jon's lies.

THAT DEBT IS ANOTHER TOOL TO KILL OUR YOUNG MEN AND I WILL SPEAK OUT ABOUT THE MURDER OF OUR CHILDREN.

If anyone says that the debt will be lowered I agree.

This debt crisis is the fault of commerce without PATRIOTISM!

Jobs are in China because business is greedy. AMERICAN BUSINESS IS OFF THE WALL GREEDY.

Now remove my right to free speech. It's what AMerica does best. Harassment my sweet patootie. You email me and then you say that Micky Dee is harassing if my emails outnumber yours. You poor little victim.

I'll stand for the CHILDREN OF AMERICA and this stupid rhetoric is the murder of them.

poetvix

''your comment about "billions of the stimulus" going to China''?

Check out this Series of articles tracking the stimulus money. By Russ Choma

Blown Away: Tracking stimulus grants for renewable energy

http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investig

Have a good day, enjoyed the discussion.

Ps Check the TV schedule for Sept. 7, 2011 and Sept. 8, 2011

MAYBE 2 DAYS OF ENLIGHTMENT?

poetvix

My site has additional information on alternate energy. Simple ways to build panels reasonably priced.

HAVE A GREAT DAY ON MONDAY

poetvix

''Blown Away: Tracking stimulus grants for renewable energy''

http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investig...

the link has gone on and off, why?

POETIX,

There is no doubt you got 100score for your fantastic hub like this.

It is not the topic what you select is important . It is the way you present a hub with all if's and but's in your life with all options and analysis with whatever way possible even for a layman to understand the crux of the matter.

congratulations.

It is my privilege to follow such a good writer like you.

i am voting this up and beautiful.

you are right in commenting in between even there are kids who can give a better budget that this. well said.

poetvix

CHECK THIS HUB OUT. Solar Power, The Future Is Here ?

http://jon-ewall.hubpages.com/t/28f658

If Congress follows the Pay-Go law signed by President Obama and respects the recent agreement on the increase in the National Debt limits of $14.3 trillion plus 2.5 trillion, any proposed Obama jobs plan

Back in the black, the SOLUTION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs

poetvix

President Obama on thurs Sept8,2011 releases his new jobs bill to a joint session of Congress and the American people. '' RIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH ''

DON'T MISS

poetvix

'' past the jobs bill '' now, sounds very familiar when the president had 100% control of Congress. famous words of Speaker Pelosi'' we need to pass the bill (healthcare) to find out what's in it ''.

The speech was as before , only a bunch of words. As before President Obama has no plan on paper. The plan if there was one, would need to be scored for cost by the CBO.

poetvix

NO ARGUMENT, JUST A DISCUSSION of ones' intellectual thoughts.

On 9-11 let's not forget who the enemy is.

PRAY THAT GOD WILL BLESS AMERICA

Picture me high-fiving you! WOW! You are reading my MIND! Excellent, logical and very reasonable Hub. I do believe however - we need to grandfather in a severe cut in Medicare and Meidciad etc. People are completely dependent on those socialist programs, we have to face that. So if we gradually ween us from these failed, broken programs then we can gradually get back on track.

You are a great voice and it's a real pleasure to read you!

Carol

hubbers

Just a reminder

On Thurs., Sept 22, 2011, Fox News and Google are sponsoring the Republican Presidential debate from Florida. AN OPEN FORUM DISCUSSION

There definitely will be comments on President Barack Obama’s ‘’Deficit Reduction Plan ‘’announced on Mon. Sept.19, 2011 in the whitehouse rose garden.

we have to take care ourself in term of debt control.

poetvix

You are welcome.

Is Obama disingenuous?

Somehow President Obama is mis- leading the public or is it that Obama doesn’t understand the numbers or the tax laws. Obama is in campaign mode, tell the people what they want to hear. Will the people make the same mistake this time around?

Excerpts from an article on the web

The Tax Policy Center estimates that 46 percent of households, mostly low- and medium-income households, will pay no federal income taxes this year. Most, however, will pay other taxes, including Social Security payroll taxes.

"People who are doing quite well and worry about low-income people not paying any taxes bemoan the fact that they get so many tax breaks that they are zeroed out," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. "People at the bottom of the distribution say, `But all of those rich guys are getting bigger tax breaks than we're getting,' which is also the case."

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was pressed at a White House briefing on the number of millionaires who pay taxes at a lower rate than middle-income families. He demurred, saying that people who make most of their money IN WAGES pay taxes at a higher rate, while those who get most of their income FROM INVESTMENTS pay at lower rates.

"So it really depends on what is your profession, where's the source of your income, what's the specific circumstances you face, and the averages WON'T really capture that," Geithner said.

Words of wisdom from a tax delinquent

Buffet’s company owes $1 billion in taxes, the President, Barack Obama maybe didn’t know.

poetvix - Terrific insights in this well written Hub! Here's another suggestion for trimming the fat off the budget: According to the Small Business Administration, the compliance costs of regulations in America is $1.75 trillion annually. This exceeds 50% of federal spending. I bet huge cuts can be made in this area!- Regards and blessings-WBA

'' the “losses” they did incur just gets passed on in higher prices. This much change. ''

LET'S not forget how government regulations are causing companies to raise prices including laying off workers .

THE GUY ON THE BOTTOM IS HURT THE MOST.

Obama says '' I know your hurt ''. REALLY

The last time the government played the game when they imposed a LUXURY TAX on boats,cars jewelry and other big price items, they effectively closed down boat building, big car sales and other associated industries.100's of thousands of jobs were lost.

There is no "debt crisis." It was manufactured by the Koch Brothers, Dick Armey, and Wall Street and sold to the Tea Partiers. The present crisis is not a debt crisis it's a jobs and double dip recession crisis. Why do you think tax receipts have declined? The unemployed don't pay income tax. There will be plenty of time to deal with the so-called debt crisis once the end of the recession is in sight.

WOW you really know how to rant and back it up too, brilliant. I like the Voltaire allusion nice. With facts like these who needs conspiracy theories. Well done I take my hat off to you. Interesting hub, voted up, useful,funny and interesting.

5) Why oh why didn't the founding fathers take the concept of checks and balances a step further and put the Supreme Court in charge of setting salaries and benefits for the other two branches of government? They get to set their own? Are you kidding me?

Did you ever hear of The Fair Tax? A national sales tax to replace income tax? You would get taxed for what you spend not what you earn? You'd find it interesting.

Great discussion-starting hub!!!

This is quite the conversation. Rather than repeat many of the above well-executed comments I would like to add simply one: there is NO easy way of this debt-infested den of politicians. Truly. That is how I feel. Our debt is now so large the only way it can really be cut into is to raise enough taxes that would place such an enormous burden on the economy to be unsustainable. Therefore, that is NOT the answer! The larger question I pose is how our debt was created in the first place. Here are a few thoughts: too many manufacturing jobs lost, too many military deployments and alliances, too many rapidly-expanding entitlement programs, a population that has become increasingly unhealthy placing further burdens on the health care system, too many unbalanced budgets, and the list could go on an on. Those are some of the low-lights. Yes, our debt is a huge problem. IMO, a good place to begin such a massive reparation project is to begin learning from our mistakes and hopefully never repeat them. Can this be done? Yes. But it will require a huge level of personal sacrifice, discipline, and a return to fiscal common sense nationwide. Thank you for such a thought-provoking hub and subsequent conversation.

poetvix

A past President once said ‘’ government is not the solution, government is the problem’’.

This past week, President Obama on the campaign trail said that Speaker Boehner and Senator Mc Connell needs to past the jobs bill. The president said that he is fighting for the middle class and that teachers and construction workers need to have jobs.

Last night 9/22/11, the House passed a CR Bill HR 2698 to fund the government to Nov. 18,2011. Included in the bill was $3.7 million to Fema for emergency funding for states devastated by the hurricane and tornado in Joplin and the east coast. The bill went to the Senate today, the Senate did not vote to pass the bill.

In order to follow the Pay-Go Legislation signed by President Obama and pass the bill, the House transferred $ 1.5 billion from the Vehicle Electric Car Manufacturing bill that was passed 3 years ago. The $4 billion bill was for putting people back to work, one must wonder how much interest has been paid on top of the $4 billion without getting the promised jobs.

The Congress, the Republican controlled House ( one half of Congress ) has approved 9 job funding bills to put workers back to work. As of today the Senate has only approved 1. When the President says that Congress is the problem, note that he really should be telling the truth, that the Democrat controlled Senate is the problem.

The shovel ready jobs are in the mid west and the east coast. Mr. President, Barack Obama ,the Senate needs to pass the bill HR 2698 and get to work on the other bills approved by the House.

THE WASTE IS IN THE GOVERNMENT, the money to pay needs to come out of the government not the taxpayers. Today it was reported that for the past 5 years, the Social Security Trust fund has paid $400 billion to dead federal employees. Forging one’s name is a crime, the taxpayers need to demand repayment and prosecution. see

The Senator Coburn Report July 21, 2011

Back in the black, the SOLUTION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs

thank you, this was a great read.

Although you're correct on all of your points, I believe you are treating the symptoms without treating the disease. There is a far greater problem here than simply spending too much money. There is corruption beyond what most people know in the government. This system is run by the banks, and that's what needs to stop more than anything. Take power away from the banks and give it back to the people.

Mark Pitrek

THE PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER, the problems are that the people believe and TRUST the politicians who are bought by the unions, special interests and the need for money and power. The party philosophy is more important than the people. Wall street, Big business and the Unions are now represented by the Democrats, who were always known to be for the poor and middle class.

One must listen closely to what President Obama is saying. Obama says that he is the champion for the middle class. The fact is that the poor have gotten poorer (40,000 on food stamps and poverty is at its highest ever ). Obama mentions teachers, fireman and policemen, all public sector jobs. Union construction jobs are mentioned but somehow he neglects the private sector jobs.

The President, Barack Obama, has 2 jobs bills on his desk waiting for a signature. The House CR bill recently passed to fund the government to Nov. 18,2011 would also provide money to rebuild the east coast was not voted on by the Senate . It was chaired, Senator Reid didn’t allow a debate, amendment or a vote . President Obama vowed to veto the bill if it came to his desk.

SOUNDS A LITTLE LIKE ‘’ MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY’’, a term used to describe the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives.

You are absolutely right. The system is broken. It always cracks me up to here some say something like this, "But that is only 0.2 percent of the budget." It doesn't matter. It's waste. We must start somewhere to get this deficit down. There are so many programs with null results that should be thrown away that maybe the resultant billions would give people who hold our country's debt a bit of confidence. It took a long time to create a BIG old boy's club in Washington and a long time to get us into 14 billion dollars worth of federal debt. It's going to take a long time to pay it off. But every dollar we can use to defray debt service and debt will bring us that much closer to leaving a healthier country to our children and grandchildren. There is no other way out.

Let the games begin! Oh, great hub!

Wow! This hub is hubtastic! I just bookmarked it so I can go back and read what I didn't get to yet. Keep up the great work!

This is a very juicy content, congrats poetvix this is very interesting. Well done

The only way to fix the debt crisis is to cut spending, no automatic increases in budgets and any surpluses can go to paying down the debt. We have way too much money and it's our own faults for being profligate. It'll take awhile but it's the only way to fix it.

If you end the bush tax cuts now. Half the debt will be gone in 10 years.

https://hubpages.com/politics/Bush-Tax-Cuts-Will-N... Asking the rich to pay 4% more and investing that money in the USA is the right thing to do. How can the right keep fooling voters that tax cuts for the rich create jobs after 10 years 3 TRILLION dollars BORROWED and MILLIONS of jobs lost. I just don't get how people can't see the truth. 24/7 fox lies are not helping.

PoliticsNOW

2009 DEMS win Presidency and a super majority CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT

16 months later unemployment INCREASES TO 9.7%, still waiting for Obama’s promised jobs. 2011, UNEMPLOYMENT is 9.1%

The deficit increases 4 times more than the Bush ERA

Need I go on ?

The question ? Ask yourself if we were you better off in 2006 than we are today ?

YOU BETCHA , a lot better than a Democrat President and a majority Democrat Congress. The Democrats have controlled 2/3’s of the government since 2007 to the present. The jobs bill that Obama has submitted to Congress is the same one that a majority Democrat Congress voted against in 2010.

Poetvix,

Very good piece. Rather than reiterating your points where we share a great deal of complete agreement, I ask that you forgive me for focusing on a few differences.

Two key points lead to mind.

A. ON ELECTION REFORM:

In your original list of recommendations, you mentioned essentially election reform. More specifically, you talked about trying to get the money out of elections. I think you are treating symptoms and not causes with this, and here is why. There's an old joke: 'why is divorce so expensive? Because it's worth it.'

The reason money is such a big factor in elections is because so much money is controlled by the winners of those elections. The East Germans built a massive police state and a military fence to keep people in. But it only slowed the exodus. Because the motivation to leave was so great.

No amount of election reform law will ever stop crooks from buying more crooked government. Just as no fence could stop the flow of East Germans westward, longing to be free(r).

So, in our current predicament, the way to make elections more fair is NOT to create a new government law to try to limit campaign contributions. Such a law will always fail, as it has before.

The ONLY solution is to strip government of its stolen power, and take away its control over so many of our dollars. If government were stripped of its power to run a fascist enterprise, picking the winners and losers in the unfree market? If it were not a vast, criminal enterprise controlling more than half the economy (indirect as well as direct dollars, mind you)? If it were not able to steal from all of us by COUNTERFEITING MONEY through the Federal Reserve? If it could not criminally hand our money out to its friends and put it on our heads as debt? THEN, there is very little money to be gained, relative to today, by getting into office.

You want to keep people in East Germany? The answer is not a better fence. The answer is to make it into a free society with natural rights and a real free market.

The vulgar amount of money spent in elections will ALWAYS exist, legally or illegally, until the winners of elections are stripped of their power over all of our money. Period. So, I think you can scratch it from your list, and focus on returning government to its limited, Constitutionally prescribed powers.

B. ON SOLVING THE DEBT CRISIS:

On reflection, the above was enough to chew on for now, I will save this part of my response for another comment.

Regards,

JustMC

Poetvix,

Okay, on to more of part B:

ON RESOLVING THE DEBT CRISIS:

There are two main components to the crisis. One is the existing debt. The other is the obligation of spending that is yet to come. Just for context, if the entire 14 or so trillion of existing debt were wiped out (poof!), we'd still accumulate it right back again in about 7 to 10 years at the current rates of overspending. We're spending 1.5 to 2 trillion PER YEAR over what we collect in taxes. The specific cuts you outlined (which I agree with) only amount to about two or three hundred billion per year. So, even if we did all the specifics you describe, which we should, we're still looking at annual deficits of 1.2 to 1.8 trillion.

Further, we pay hundreds of billions in interest every year, even though interest rates are set artificially low by the Federal Reserve. We have to roll our debt over (we won't have fixed low rates forever). Eventually, real market forces will drive these rates up. It wouldn't take a lot for the interest alone to increase to where all our annual revenues were needed JUST to cover interest payments.

WE ARE BEHIND THE POWER CURVE

Consider a metaphor that parallels this scenario in terms of a personal household budget.

Imagine you are a mechanic making 50 grand per year. And you have a 10 Million dollar adjustable-rate mortgage. And you blow most of your money each month on dining out, beer, etc.

You CANNOT EVER catch up with your debt. You could cut ALL THE FAT from your monthly budget and put 100% toward the mortgage. You're still getting WAY further behind, every month.

That's where we are as a country. We will never be able to pay off the debt. We won't even be able to keep up with the interest.

IF YOU TRY TO CATCH UP BY "QUANTITATIVE EASING"...

Quantitative easing is having the Federal Reserve create new dollars from nothing. Like, having IBM start selling a bunch more shares of its stock, even thought the company is 100% owned. This simply devalues everyone else's money. Counterfeiting. Stealing. Now, if the government increases its annual amount of counterfeiting, it will DE-VALUE the dollars we all have saved even further and faster than is already happening. In this scenario, the government could claim it paid all its bills. They could print a hundred kabillion dollar bill. And Geithner could hold it up and say 'Hey, problem solved!'

But of course, the problem wouldn't be solved. Because while all the social security checks would clear, and so on with other government debts, a hot dog might cost $200. Or $1000. Hyperinflation. Paying off a debt in worthless money is simply another form of default. If you don't think so, ask the guy whose "guaranteed" Social Security check buys him one hot dog per month.

IF YOU TRY TO CATCH UP BY RAISING TAXES...

You further destroy the economy. The Federal Reserve's own stats (which are garbage, because they don't take inflation properly into account) say the NET WORTH OF THE WHOLE US POPULATION is only 55 trillion. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in_the_United_...

So, imagine taking the 14 trillion we owe just by swiping it in one huge tax year. It'd be taking one third of everyone's NET WORTH, right now. And next year, at current spending levels, we'd STILL run up another 1.2+ trillion in new debt. And that's assuming revenues would stay stable. But of course, if you steal 1/3 of the country's net worth, the economy will tank even worse than it is now. Next year's deficit would probably be more like 3 trillion. At that rate, everyone in the USA will be flat broke in about 10 years.

This is what unsustainability looks like. An it's not pretty. So, if you look at the combined burden of EXISTING DEBT with FUTURE SPENDING OBLIGATIONS, the USA is insolvent. It CANNOT pay these debts. The Ponzi scheme will end. The game of musical chairs will stop. DE-FAULT. The USA IS and WILL CONTINUE TO default on its debts.

OKAY, SO WE'RE F'D. GREAT. WHAT CAN WE DO?

Good question, glad you asked. First, every smart American should sell his house if he's not too far underwater already. And toss the keys to the bank if he is. Then, take every cent you can get your hands on, and buy physical gold and silver. And if you don't know how to produce something that people will buy (food, shelter, energy, etc) then start teaching yourself how, right away. This is the best basic strategy for the individual to protect himself and his family. 30 grand worth of gold and silver, stashed today, will buy a nice house with cash in a couple of years when real estate finishes plummeting and the banks have largely failed.

Now, how to fix the government. The EXISTING DEBT and SPENDING OBLIGATIONS must go away. We MIGHT have a chance to pay the existing debt, if we cut to the bone, but we will never be able to continue spending as we have. This means about 90 percent of the federal government, and its budget, have to go. It means a forced, PAINFUL grandfathering out of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, virtually all social programs. Gone. It means elimination of maybe 1.8 million of the 2.15 million federal jobs. Leaving us with a standing army of about 250,000, Congress, courts, a few federal prisons, Coast Guard, maybe FBI, and very little more.

But the biggest change for the individual will be retooling of the work done in a day. Gone will be the legions of Dept of Ed bureaucrats, sexual harassment trainers, and regulators of all kinds. Which is good. They produce little or nothing of value, often negative value, and they eat up tons of wealth.

If you look at the nation as a set of people baking an annual pie, we currently have about half our working age population producing no pie at all. They just eat from the pie.

The real working people, farmers, plumbers, cooks, machinists, auto-workers, janitors, maids, oil-hands, bank tellers, grocers, and so on, these folks will THRIVE. They will continue producing, but won't have half their wealth stolen away. Public sector union workers will be in the middle. Real teachers will be fine, with slight pay cuts but much lower tax burdens and more purchasing power. The people who will take it in the shorts are the bureaucrats, most of the lawyers, most of Wall St, most of the bankers, most of the BS college professors, etc. These people will be begging in the street until they suck it up and take the unskilled labor jobs for which they are qualified.

The real producers of value have nothing to fear in the long run. The crooks and thieves and parasites will be the ones who lose. So long as the producers don't allow us to fall further into a police state, where the crooks and thieves and parasites can continue to steal by greater threat of force than they are using today. But this is a real danger.

In short:

0. Eliminate the Federal Reserve, and restore sound money. Counterfeiting is a HUGE hidden theft.

1. Vastly simplify taxes. Eliminate federal income tax, federal capital gains taxes, and 16th amendment.

2. Repeal most of the laws on the federal books, getting back to the Constitution. Start with Obamacare.

3. Eliminate most of the Federal government. Let the States decide more locally.

4. Bring the troops home now. Stop fighting wars of aggression against countries and people who have not invaded us.

5. Scale back the armed forces to about 1/4 what they are. Stay strong with nukes, subs, and a modest, conventional ground force.

6. End ALL federal entitlements and redistribution through a gradual, grandfathering out of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.

7. End ALL deferred benefits in government. No pensions, nothing. All pay must be in real time, in cash, with the people themselves deciding how best to save and prepare for retirement.

8. End prohibition. Lay off the DEA and the rest of the drug agents. Let the nonviolent out of prison, with full pardons, for all possession charges. Close tons of prisons.

9. Deport the illegals who don’t go home on their own when the entitlements dry up. They drive down wages for

poetvix

Today, 9/28/11, Senator Reid announced that he will not bring up the President's Job Bill to the Senate floor. Senator Reid sponsored the bill in the Senate and it is becoming clearer that the Republicans are not holding up passage of the Jobs Bill as the president says on the campaign trail. President Obama needs to make a call to Senator Reid.

Thanks poetvix, I think you and I are largely on the same page. One point of clarification, where we may be closer than you thought. I want to end all redistributive entitlements. However, while I want them to go, I speak of grandfathering them out because, just as you say, many people who paid in are are owed money, which we should pay, at least in part. But someone like me, in his forties, would cease paying in to SS, and would receive very little. While it is laudable to try to pay back all of what has been paid in, I suspect it is mathematically impossible, due to the lost time value of the money that was collected. Likely, part of scaling back what is paid out is adjusting the starting year of eligibility.

As food for thought, when SS started, about 57 percent of people who survived to age 21 lived to 65. By 1990, that number was more like 77 percent. Further, when SS started, the average life expectancy past 65 was about 14 years. By 1990, it was up to about 18 years.

Fairness, and mathematical necessity, suggest these shifts require workers who live longer to work longer. So, by now, no one should be able to collect benefits until perhaps age 70.

Further, both on principles of natural law and with the letter of the Constitution, the whole system is absolutely illegal and immoral. Hence my belief we should abolish it, but not overnight. We need to grandfather it out, in an attempt to be fair to those who have paid in, based on how much they have paid in so far.

Regards,

JustMC

JustMC

ALLOW ME TO MAKE YOUR DAY.

The Article Title Federal Pensions Costly USA TODAY by Dennis Cauchon

Excerpts:

The Federal Government hasn’t set aside MONEY or created a revenue source similar to Social Security’s payroll tax to help pay for the benefits, so the retirement costs MUST be paid every year through TAXES and BORROWING.

The US Government paid a RECORD $268 BILLION in Pension and Health benefits last year to 10 million former civil servants, military personnel and their dependents. The retirement now have a $5.7 Trillion UNFUNDED LIABILITY, compared with a $6.5 Trillion SHORTFALL for Social Security.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-fed...

The SUPER COMMITTEE NEEDS TO START CUTTING A LOT. Senator Coburn has the plan

Back in the black, the SOLUTION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs

Since 2009 the Obama Administration has added 200,000 new employees to the government payroll and created 20 new agencies. In addition the agencies add 10 new regulations each day that costs businesses $ billions. Seriously can one now try to understand what happened to the jobs!

Here is another tidbit for losing one’s temper.

It was recently reported that for the past 5 years, the Social Security Trust fund has paid $400 billion to DEAD Federal employees. Forging one’s name is a crime, the taxpayers need to demand repayment and prosecution of the law breakers and the idiots running our country.

THE PRIVATE SECTOR, SLAVES TO THE GOVERNMENT WORKER.How fair is that?

The politicians need a WAKEUP CALL!

hubbers

Startling news today,Sept.30, 2011

Senator Durbin ( THE #2 TOP GUY ) admitted today that the President’s Job Bill will not receive enough of the majority Democrat controlled Senate’s votes to pass the bill. Note that the Republicans shouldn’t be held responsible for killing President Obama’s job bill.

The Jobs Bill proposed by the President was rejected in 2010 by the Super majority Democrat Congress. The 2012 budget submitted by the President in Feb., the same bill, was defeated 97-0. Now after 2 defeats, the President ‘s job bill can’t get the necessary votes in the Senate to pass. The propaganda machine has been derailed?

Thanks Jon. That sort of thing makes me want to vomit, as I gather it does you. The Coburn thing raises some interesting questions I think. While I suspect there are some useful elements, my guess is I'd not be very happy with the details if I waded through them. But let me be clear about why.

I put no faith in promises from the crooks in DC. I have little interest in the guy who talks about cutting 5 trillion over 10 years. Or 10 trillion over 10 years. Or 100 trillion over 50 years. Future cuts are simply lies, in my experience. Like a non-smoker increasing the amount of money he saves by increasing the number of packs per day he doesn't smoke.

The only guy I want to hear from is the one who wants to cut 1.5 trillion or more now, from the budget for this or next year. The way Congress operates, no one can promise future cuts.

What we should all demand is that everything be cut now. Further, we need to demand two particulars:

1. A return to operating on a model where the default spending is ZERO. Nothing. No military pay. No money to pay guards at missile silos. No money to fix leaks in the White House roof. No money to pay interest on the national debt. No money to Social Security beneficiaries. No money to Medicare recipients. No money to pay government employees or pensions. Etc. No money to ANYONE or ANYTHING for ANY REASON. The DEFAULT BEHAVIOR is to fund NOTHING.

2. Then, under that proper model of zero-funding as default behavior, every appropriation is done in the most itemized fashion possible. No massive all-inclusive budgets. Everything has to be voted on, in individual votes with a formal record. So, you can't get air cover from your vote for a Solyndra by claiming it was somewhere down in the budget, and you were voting to support that budget based on bigger issues. The money for Solyndra should have a list of "yea" votes next to it. Such that all the crooks in favor of it are immediately accountable to voters. (And we should do away with ANY choice votes without a strict roll call and a record.)

This accomplishes several things. It creates real accountability on who funded specific items. But even more, it forces PRIORITIZATION, which is missing from the all-you-can-eat model with no separate checks. First vote of the year, how much do we authorize to fund NORAD to keep the radars on? Okay, got that done, now how much do we authorize to keep the missile subs operational? Okay, next...

And so on. Several things happen. It's hard to make a deal for HUD or Fannie Mae or other garbage, tying it to the real costs of defending the country. We're sitting here in January with the radar turned off. Who's going to be able to tell his constituents that he won't vote for NORAD without some pork tossed in?

ALSO, and perhaps even more important, it properly recognizes the dangers of counting on ANY entitlement system like Social Security or Medicare. What voter in his right mind would support paying into a system like that when he knows the votes to fund the payouts are up for debate and vote every year? If you knew full well that this year's vote GUARANTEED you would have to pay SS taxes, but nothing guaranteed you'd ever get a dime back for yourself, voters would be more appropriately skeptical of the whole scheme. Same with ANY deferred payments, pensions, etc or other pay-later promises that get us into so much trouble. Now, the truth is that this is the reality today, but annual, granular voting would make it FAR more clear.

And arguably, MOST important in such a system of line-by-line votes is that it ties the Devil's hands. Congress should be WORKING, debating and arguing about every little expenditure in the most granular detail possible. It would greatly limit their ability to create all the mischief they saddle us with.

People say, 'hey, you can't run the government that way! How is it supposed to operate?!' Perfect. This government as we know it shouldn't be allowed to or be able to operate. When the whole budget is one big all-or-nothing vote, everyone's pork gets tossed in and everyone can vote for it because that's where NORAD's funding is, along with the other highest priorities.

Not sure the best way to implement this. One theoretical concept is an amendment that no bill may authorize spending of more than the value of one million ounces of gold (currently about 1.5 billion dollars.) So, you force Congress to break funding into at least a fair number of votes.

But the way it SHOULD be done is to simply get a voting bloc in Congress that will force appropriations to be done granularly.

But I digress. Circling back, I don't buy in to "Back in the Black" because it's another scheme to cut in the future. I don't want 10 trillion in cuts over 10 years. I want 1.5 trillion in cuts THIS year.

Regards,

JustMC

hubbers

Check this goodie out!

''the President ‘s job bill can’t get the necessary votes in the Senate to pass.''

NOT ONE DEMOCRAT CONGRESSMAN HAS SPONSERED THE JOBS BILL IN THE HOUSE AS OF Sept28,2011, 2011. Blaming the Republicans, has the President lost his bag of intelligence ?

If a bill has no sponsor, a bill cannot get to the floor for a discussion or debate.

On Sat. the President , on his Sat. TV talk to the people, President Obama said that he wants his Jobs Bill passed. He referred to Congress but never once referred to the Democrats who will not sponsor the bill and/or support the bill. Again as usual Obama chided the Republicans for not passing the bill.

How low will the President of the United States stoop to keep his job?

ON SEPT. 29,2011

Senate by Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-NV introduced President Obama's American Jobs Act in the Senate as S. 1549. Rep. John Larsen, D-CT introduced the identical bill in the House as H.R. 12

The bill has not yet been sent to any Senate committees. At 412 pages, the bill is complicated but manageable. Given the politics, it will not move quickly. Congress just isn’t interested because it affects your life, not theirs.

http://patomalley.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/preside...

So how exactly does a bill become a law? While not all bills are the same

http://www.house.gov/lucas/how-bill-becomes-law.sh...

poetvix

'The Man'' is EVIL!

poetvix

Senator Mc Connell , Republican minority leader requested and challenged Senator Reid to put the American Jobs Act on the floor for a vote. The President today said that the Republicans are holding up passage of his bill ( ALL propaganda).Senator Reid is again delaying the process so that another crisis will be coming up soon.

Drop all politicians and return to bartering. You have a skill you exchange it for what you need. Humans survived for millennial without these toads. Sack them all!

You have some very interesting points and you've obviously looked into these details quite a bit. This was very helpful and informative!

poetvix

In our country the people have a constitutional right to protest ( peacefully ). The protesters have now been camped on wall street for 4 weeks. Are they protesting for not having jobs, a better economy , envy of those making money on wall street or do they want a different type of government? It has been reported that all kinds of groups are protesting for their individual caucuses. Students, Communist Marxist, Unions, radical groups of all kinds and some environmentalist holding their signs. NO American flags being burnt yet.

It was revealed that Van Jones ( one of Obama’s past czars )is the organizer of ‘’occupy wall street’’ with support from SEIU Unions and backed by the George Soros groups. The movement is organized to ’’ Take Back the American Dream’ ’and create havoc on the streets of major cities.

GEORGE SOROS,VAN JONES AND PRESIDENTS OF SEIU AND THE AFL-CIO have been regular visitors to the Whitehouse on many occasions in the past.

NOTE, I witnessed the whole Van Jones speech on C-Span with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears.

President Obama and some Democrat leaders in Congress have supported the PROTESTERS causes of inhibition of one kind or another. Wake up all you folks on the street, you have been fed a daily diet of propaganda from Washington and the mainstream media . Wall street don’t make the laws that have caused the protests. What has been neglected to be exposed is our government's actions in Washington. ALL THE TROUBLES HAVE BEEN CREATED in Washington.

1.Costly Regulations Cost Us American Jobs

http://www.gop.gov/indepth/jobs/regulations

2.The Senator Coburn Report July 21, 2011

DEFICIT WASTE IN the US GOVERNMENT see video

Back in the black, the SOLUTION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs

Dear Poet, I hate American politicians. (Not americans). Check how these dirty people earn money. There are many exploitations of developing or under developed nations through various bad ways. In ours too the dirty politicians are crazy and playing havoc with public funds.

How about spending less on the development and distribution of weapons and warfare in general....

It's easy to blame our country's financial woes on "lavish spending" by Michelle Obama on a vacation. Other first ladies have spent just as much, or more on other non-essentials. Laura Bush spent over $490,000 on dishes alone in the White House, not to mention countless trips to Crawford, TX, with W that cost taxpayers over $20 million dollars. The real source of our economic problems is that we hand over billions of dollars each year to overseas dictators for oil, when in fact we have a huge newly discovered supply of it here. We've been transferring our nation's wealth to countries who hate us, and then in turn we have to fight wars against terrorists that were financed by those very same peto dollars. That, in addition to selling out our economy to China and crooked Wall Street Bankers are what is ruining the U.S.A.

The Federal Reserve has made over $16 Trillion in PRIVATE LOANS... think about that. It's more than the National Debt. And they can do this because they are NOT a Federal Agency. They are a group of PRIVATE BANKERS who control our money supply.

And where did that money go? To the European Banks. And what happens when they collapse and can not pay it back?

The whole system of Fractional Reserve Banking will collapse world wide.

The system can only be fixed by abolishing it. But that is not going to happen because of those who run it... the people who benefit from controlling the labors of the masses are not going to let it go until it collapses.

So it's only a matter of time. 5 years? 10 years? Who knows... but it's coming.

Congress has authority do whatever it wants to the Fed, including abolishing it. But it requires passing laws. This should start with a full audit.

They are organized crime. I recommend you read "The Case Against the Fed" by Murray Rothbard.

Congress created the Fed and in so doing granted the Fed a bunch of (disgusting) protection from Congress's own eyes. But Congress has full authority to change that. Even a watered down version of Ron Paul's audit the Fed bill discovered some very damning things. A full audit is what's needed to give the people the info they need such that they will pressure Congress for further action.

That's exactly right--they know that if people actually knew what the Fed was doing, the house of cards would fall.

All things crash when confidence is lost. However, there exist distinctly different situations when:

1. something is fundamentally sound but is crashed by a misguided lack of confidence, vs.

2. something is doomed to failure, and the inevitable lack of confidence that crashes it drives only the precise timing, not the crash itself.

The Fed's case, like most, is the latter.

Yes, agreed. The reason for my distinction, however, is that when faced with something that falls into one of these buckets, the remedy must fit the situation, and thus the diagnosis of the problem must make the distinction.

IF case 1 exists, the fundamentals are sound and these need only be explained to people with clear evidence. And there is great motivation to openly and honestly allow ANY amount of inspection of these fundamentals. In fact, those in power will encourage it. If they want you to buy a house and you fear there is a skeleton in the closet, they WANT to show you the closet is empty. They'll go out of their way to show you their product is solid. The only thing to fear is fear, and that is quelled by honesty and transparency. When someone expresses concern or doubt, they won't attack that person, but rather they will open up their books for complete public inspection. They will tell you "the only thing to fear is fear itself," but they will do so in a non-threatening way, and they will immediate share all the data.

In case 2, however, there IS really a skeleton in the closet. The patient IS really sick. The bridge IS really crumbling. The problem IS real and disastrous.

And thus the crash IS going to happen unless fundamental, structural changes are made. And perhaps even if they are made, a crash will still happen. And if those in power won't or can't take steps to make the drastic, fundamental changes, they can only hope to grab all they can in the short term while postponing the timing of impending disaster.

In cases such as this, they have the opposite incentive from case 1. They are motivated to HIDE the facts, LIE about the real status, and promote FALSE CONFIDENCE. ***Just as in case 1, they will say "the only thing to fear is fear itself." But when they say it, they WON'T want to open up the closet openly and transparently. They will attack the messengers who speak truth, or even express Concern and ask for more information about the state of the crisis. Likewise, when things do start going wrong, they will blame it on the people who tried to warn others, saying the crisis was just a "panic" incited by enemies of society.***

A good example: tell people that the banks are in real trouble, which they are, and encourage them to get their money out while they can to safeguard it. Government and the Fed will NOT open things up for a full audit to show things are sound (because they aren't). They will instead attack the messenger, possibly even charging you as a criminal for TELLING THE TRUTH and WARNING PEOPLE OF DANGER. They will lie and claim that you CAUSED the problem. When in fact, THEY caused the problem, and the only influence you might have had was to SLIGHTLY alter the timing (making it happen a little sooner) and slightly alter the outcome (some innocent people would actually get their money out in time).

Circling back, I would say that one point is contrary to your note. It shouldn't all fail regardless. If you hear people saying things are okay, or that there is nothing to fear but fear itself, or that the crisis is one of confidence, you should look for the following indicator: Do they openly share all the data, allowing the public full access to audit the reality and judge? Or do they hide the data, accuse and attack those who question the health of the situation, and continue promoting false confidence?

If the former, maybe things are okay, and you can judge for yourself. And they want you to. They will want truth.

If the latter, they will lie and attack you and confiscate more of your liberty. They will say that the honest questioner is causing a panic, and that keeping the (hopelessly failing) banks alive is "a matter of national security." They will use this to pass the next addition to the Patriot Act, so they can lock up any voices of honest dissent. They will DEFINITELY liken honest speech about the sad state of the banks to "shouting fire in a crowded theater."

What is important, and the reason for my post, is in both cases, you will hear the government say "the only thing to fear is fear itself." For people to be able to know if this is true, they need to look at how the government treats the concerned, inquiring citizen. If the concerned, inquiring citizen is wrong, the government WILL open the books and share their secrets and WILL NOT clamp down on the speech of those who ask. If the inquiring citizen is right, the government WILL NOT open the books and WILL clamp down on the speech of innocent inquirers and speakers of truth.

People need to hear this message now, so they know what to think when the time comes. (Already underway, actually.) The Fed is fighting like mad to avoid any audit deeper than the one Ron Paul pushed for, and got passed. The crooked insiders gutted the audit bill, but even so, the little bit of audit power it enacted revealed some scary stuff that the Fed did not want to come out.

There is action that people can take. Pull your money out of the banks, both to protect yourself AND to punish the crooks who were bailed out. Get cash. Put it in a safe deposit box or a local, sound, community bank. Weiss Ratings, who predicted the 2008 crash, has ratings on nearly every bank. Virtually every big bank is in big trouble. FDIC is fine for isolated bank failures, but useless for massive failures. It's like an insurance company when someone falls asleep with a lit cigarette (small loss, easily covered by the pool of insured) versus an asteroid hitting and wiping out 10 states.

The remedy is called secessio plebis. You can bust the trusts as citizens. Also, the government's reaction, if it comes after the common folk, SUDDENLY AND CLEARLY SHOWS ITSELF TO BE THE ENEMY OF THE LITTLE GUY. IF THEY TELL YOU THAT YOU CAN'T TAKE **YOUR OWN** MONEY OUT OF THE BANK, IT IS CLEAR THAT THEY ARE PROTECTING THE BANK, NOT YOU.

http://disquietreservations.blogspot.com/2009/11/s...

Fixing the debt crisis is simple:

Don't have debts, don't live above your means and that counts for individuals as well as for governments and businesses. But who would believe me when the norm has become to borrow as investment.

Oh, oops, I guess in all that I skipped it. The point of taking it out now is to do something with it while it still has value, like to buy precious metals, whatever. Timing this right is a little challenging, as actual cash will probably surge briefly, until the next major round of devaluation kicks in. But my guess is that sometime between today and two years from now, there will be an optimal time to buy metals or other commodities.

What if we all took our money out of the banks and kept it under the mattress? Where would the banks be then? Well, it would be proof in the pudding that banks don't actually hold real money, just fresh air, invented figures in computers. The 99.999% controlling the financial power intend to rule out cash all together so they can go on manipulating the economy as they wish.

Wow, both you ladies are dead on it. I could not agree more.

poetvix

I recently replied to another hub.

The Bush tax cuts argument should be buried, let Obama handle his budgets and be responsible for the administration's own legislation. Bush has been gone 3 years and now should be history.

ALL of the tax breaks that Obama has engineered was a pick and choose for whom the tax cut or credits involved ONLY SPECIFIC mentions. Tax issues should be equal for all and benefit all. Obama can call it anything he wants to but the fact is that there are the jobs issue. The economy and jobs were an issue in 2008. Obama run on change and other great sounding proclamations. On 60 minutes he proclaimed that in his first 3 years he has accomplished more than 3 other great presidents.

Obama and the Senate passed a payroll extension for 2 months. The President praised the Senate, what a joke. The House passed the payroll extension for 1 year and made cuts to pay for it. Obama, now blames the House for holding up his jobs bill. One must get by the PROPAGANDA when he blames Congress. Congress is the Senate and the House. Since Jan.2011, the House has passed 25 jobs bills and has passed a 2012 budget. The Senate hasn’t pass a budget for 3 years, the 2012 budget has not been presented for debate.

Obama needs to call a spade a spade, the Senate is NOT DOING THE JOB. As a matter of fact, under control of the Democrats,2/3’s of our government hasn’t done the job since 2007.

Government SPENDING and new regulations is the problem!

poetvix

'' I think Obama has done more than most presidents... Towards destroying our great nation! America has declined and suffered more ..''

New EPA regulations on power plants will shut down 30 coal fired plants. In these troubled times, to do so will cost many thousands of jobs and raise your electric costs. The keystone pipe line project after over 2 years and millions of spent dollars to develop the project, a shovel ready project, has been delayed by the President and other agencies. The House Republican bill that was passed includes a 1 year extension of what was agreed to by the President. Today President Obama is fighting for a Senate passed bill for only 2 months. An idiot could see that the best move is by the House.

PS The mainstream media is reporting something a little different as are the internet blogs.

poetvix

Today, Dec. 22,2011,President Obama and the dysfunctional Senate won the battle. The House will agree to the Senate bill. The President held a PRESS CONFERENCE ( no questions allowed ) and remarked that working citizens will save $40 dollars for the 2 month extension. Another crisis and smoke and mirrors. It is obvious that delaying actions to pass legislation continues to allow the President to keep spending. A two month delay will take the nation into the second quarter of the 2012 budget. There is no approved 2012 budget, the country operates on continuing resolutions.

The media and congress needs to report the truth sad to say. The House bill was paid for as required by pay-go law. The Senate 2 month bill was passed for only 2 months because the Senate could only find enough cuts in government to meet pay-go law and be deficit neutral. Senators wanted to be home for Christmas and were willing to accept a do nothing plan. Sorry group of public servants working for the people. REALLY

poetvix

Wishing you and your readers a MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR.MAY GOD BLESS OUR COUNTRY!

Wow, that was a great Christmas night read,,,,awesome hub. Your ideas for fixing our national debt problem pretty much falls in line with mine Poetvix..

See Ya

And Merry Christmas

Thanks, Same to you!

Poetvix, Thanks for sharing what most of us are thinking! The recession has reached epic proportions and is adversely effecting all nations under God.

poetvix

The latest is that the Whitehouse, Obama & company, will be requesting Congress to increase the national debt limits another $1.2 trillion when they come back in Jan.2012.The CRISIS PRESIDENT forgets that the PAY-GO LAW was suppose to fix the congress's spending appetite.

The 2 month payroll tax extension, the 2012 budget, passing the 25 jobs bills that the House approved and now the national debt limits will be waiting for the Senate when they come back to Washington. The Senate has a lot of work to do. The Democrat/ Obama VICTORY will be short! How is it that the House and Senate Republicans can be BLAMED for delaying the recovery. To be continued

There was a lot of comments, and I didn't read through them all. But has anyone mentioned abolishing the federal reserve?

Oh my that is a lot of comments. Sorry I am not reading the comments, so I will probably say what other people said. I agree that there is too much government waste, and I agree with almost everything you said. Except the part about all candidates getting free air time. There are enough ads as it is.

We do have to remember that each of our elected officials, and each party has had its share of excesses. We can bring up the Obama's vacations rightfully because it is recent information, but all other presidents have also gone on expensive vacations. remember the hoopla about Reagan's fancy china? Each party says they want to save money, but it generally means, "don't spend it on the other party's priorities, only on ours".

When the national debt was very low, remember that there was raging inflation and worse--A depression at the same time! It's rather surprising to hear so many who are upset about their lives.

The only way the United States States kept up the illusion

of constant prosperity for all was to maintain the status quo in those countries just reaching for the brass ring. We can no longer pretend that we don't need the natural resources of our neighbors in the world. It is no longer acceptable for the U.S. or any country to slip into another's backyard and just take what we want.

We should all rejoice that our fine young men and women are finally free from the terror of being blown to bits or kidnapped, humiliated and worse. We have every right to be proud of these uniformed Americans, Some still in their teens or barely out of them.

There is going to be a huge challenge for many to take care of those with bizarre illnesses barely imagined by our medical establishment. There are lost limbs to replace, as well as the need to re-indoctrinate our soldiers to the changes they will face and introduce them to adaptive ways of coping other than with firearms and confrontation.

It seems we as Americans will always do what is traditional when it comes to politics which is to sling mud and call names.

Another tradition is to pitch in together when threatened and work to get the job done.

As time goes on the dollar may seem weaker but there are more of them. The country benefits by paying back creditors with dollars that were borrowed when they were worth more--Giving the U.S. a decided advantage. Gold and silver may be once again used as money.

The U.S. wealth has increased exponentially as more oil fields are discovered and new technology allows for the oil to be exploited.

Even with the European economies driving uninformed and under-educated persons to support "The Sky is Falling,"

anti- U.S. propaganda, demand grows in other parts of the world for many things we take for granted. Dividends and selected stocks are running and those who can take the time or pay someone to get educated will participate in a massive run up in the stock market, and when the market tumbles it is nature taking its course along the way.

if they legalized weed to be able to grow and sell it if we sold to other countrys then we would be out of debt in less than 10 years especially if the goverment started growing it on like a large farm -just saying-

Awesome, its really great to see Democracy in action opinions, arguments and counter arguments, Simply great.

Ok now about the issue, totally agree with the point I am concerned, Your foreign aid its a total drama if US government is paying a Billion $ most of it will be paid to the staff who will be "Over Looking" spending of Aid and rest will be issued only if the subjected country is complying with so called "American Interests" like opening CIA centers and topping governments in other countries which I have seen by my own eyes, Let others deal with their own problems so that they should be more sustainable and hence less likely to be a source of immigrants for US economy.

We are all effected by your economy if Steve jobs is doing anything good we are enjoying Ipads but if your economy is in trouble it will hurt us as well so its good to see that people are aware of what's going on and willing to talk about, Thumbs Up. Bonne Chance.

Hold fast Poetvix. Not even for disaster relief. There can be PLENTY of disaster relief from private, willful giving. Every tax dollar is taken by the threat of a gun. That's not charity, that's theft and our highest law makes ZERO legal provision for such taking from the taxpayer.

That said, give willingly to good causes, as an individual. In the past, it was a LOT harder to mobilize relief behind a cause. Today, it can be on the net in a few hours, with facility for collecting donations electronically, etc.

Private giving is charity. Public giving is THEFT.

You can only take something from nothing for so long, which is exactly what money is. The only sure fire way to end debt is to end the monetary system...a demon that should never have existed in the first place. Worst invention in history. Andrew Jackson shut down the second national bank because he realized the oppression of the will of the common people. Somehow, that didn't last long.

poetvix

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU AND ALL HUBBERS

Wish for 2012, Congress to come back to Washington in Jan to work for the good of the people and get Americans back to work.

Hi,

When I went through your hub, I found that a lot of people think that, for everything which has gone wrong, only the government is to blame.

Though I agree that it may be that the government has done a lot of things wrong, however, even the people are to blame to some extent.

I have worked for a collection agency and have found out that a lot of people have taken debts and spent money like there was no tomorrow and then never bothered to payback the loans.

What is more there are many people who are only leaving on social security and dont care to find a suitable job, they simply do not want to look out for a job.

When you watch the Suze Orman show you realize that there are so many people who would still wanttobuy gas guzzling SUV's even though they cannot afford it.

This is just what is happening all across the world even in India, where people were typically of a mindset who would rather save first then spend are now borrowing heavily to go on vaccations, remodel their houses, buy clothes even if wardrobes are full, buy larger television sets, buy bigger cars, simply on things without which they could easily live.

I dont know what's going on but something here is definitely fishy.

Regards

These are great ways to get out of debt..Thanks for the great post

Poetvix - this hub has been included in my list of favorites I've read this week. Congrats!

I found this Hub in the list made by Millionaire Tips and I'm glad I read it. You wrote a very useful discussion of the problems we face.

I agree with you about Medicare and Disability. I also know a couple of people who abuse the system, although it needs to be kept for those who truly need disability benefits. It's not an easy problem to resolve. I even left a doctor once when I found out he was double billing my insurance company for extra visits. It frustrates me.

As I was browsing some other comments your readers were making I came across the comment by MikeNV, who I must say left a very accurate comment (about 2 months prior to this post). I want to respond to your question in your reply to him, where you asked who would abolish the Fed? John F. Kennedy tried.

In 1963 Kennedy signed into law a bill to allow the U.S. Treasury to print $4 billion, bypassing the need to borrow money from the Fed. But then a few months later he was assassinated and shortly after that the bill was overturned and the $4 billion of "Kennedy Dollars" were destroyed. (Do a Google on "Kennedy Executive Order 11110").

I'm glad you wrote this Hub. It brought about a lot of additional useful interaction among your readers.

If you don't mind me taking an opposing view, the education illegal immigrants are receiving has a positive effect on this world. Yes, it is at our expense, and it brings our country down a bit, but the benefits to society as a whole are large. Would it not be better to have an individual who was welcomed into our education system that can now make informed decisions about their life and the choices they make? Or would it be better to have an ignorant pauper who resorts to crime to survive? Think of the possible life saving or life improving discoveries such an individual may generate.

Also, our society is one of the richest on Earth. Can we not provide medical care to children, even if they are here illegally? Instead of going to an expensive hospital, however, we should revamp our medical care system, and make it possible for free clinics that are hundreds of times cheaper than a hospital visit.

Are we not the greatest nation on Earth? Can we not feed and clothe the children in our country, no matter their resident status? The rewards of showing compassion and generosity, I think, far outweigh the extra money we have to pay to get our earaches checked.

Bill Clinton left office with a budget surplus, and he was a Democrat. How was that possible? Democrats are big spenders, aren't they? Yet his years in office created millions of jobs while driving down (or at least stabilizing) our debt. Whatever forumla they were using, we should try to replicate it, and put it back into place.

Great post, and thank you for sharing your rant!

Not to interogate, but how many people spent money at retailers this holiday season on foreign made trickets? we can't cut foreign relations because the world is now dependent on each other.

Perhaps the real issue is a sense of entitlement that exists in every generation that currently lives in this country. People who eat McDonalds expect diabetes care covered by medicare after they ate themselves to the disease. Teen mothers expect government assistance rather than having their family support them.

Let me ask this. would you be willing to give up your washer and dryer and return to how your great grandmother washed her clothes?

People need to stop blaming corporations, the government and everyone else they can point a finger at and recognize we are citizens on this country, realize that our own mentality has caused this.

My solution.. begin conserving. Implement a tax on gas so it trickles the debt and forces consumers to look to alternative creative methods. Drug test for government assistance applicants. Cut medicare, (perhaps people will attempt to prevent their ailments), or realize everyone is not entitled to live till 80. Leave medical decisions to the doctors not the families. Too much money is washed keeping hopeless patients on life support for months on end.

The solution begins at the source our own affluenza. Take solution based action and end irresponsible blame based attacks.

Hello, poetvix,

This is a useful, awesome, interesting and very informative article.

I would just like to add that it would be a lot easier to stomach the nation's staggering debt, if we had something to show for it.

As examples, if all of the big cities were clean and safe, all of the roads and bridges were in good repair, there was a huge fleet of bullet trains, every one of the public schools was a first-class learning center, and there was a huge army of workers out in the streets helping the down-and-out to lift themselves up, the huge amount of debt would be just about be worth it.

Good point. It's an interesting question what we have to show for our excesses.

I think what we have to show for it is a fleeting high, much like a drug addict's high. Only our high is an artificially high living standard. Our nation is, literally and figuratively, fat from this. As living off debt is forcibly ended by debt markets, what we will see that was not consumed in our orgy of high-living is a fleet of (relatively)expensive cars, compared to what would have been here. And relatively expensive houses, compared to what would have been here. And a lot of flat screen TVs. And a lot of other junk that was overpriced and whose value is largely evaporated. But the tangible assets from the over-living are largely cars and houses and computers. The rest has been consumed. And some of what is left is, literally, fat on bodies of Americans.

And an addiction that won't go away without cold turkey. And a lot of "education" that is worse than worthless. College degrees that didn't include anything that made people more productive, and instead ingrained counterproductivity.

Poetvix, I think I was perhaps less than clear. The hidden injection of cash into the economy, through massive government borrowing and artificially low interest rates, for many years, distorts the marketplace. Even many people who intended to live within their means have been fooled as to what their true means really was. So the excess to which I referit isn't all largesse. Some people clearly have lived beyond their means. But virtually all of us have been fooled as to the value of what we could produce. This is an indisputable problem when natural prices and incomes are distorted. Market prices are key indicators for everyone, and when those are warped by government borrowing and spending, we are ALL flying blind to a degree. Even the most cautious and aware, who do live within their means and recognize that pricing is distorted, are still working with poor information, and are forced to make the best sense they can of what they see. Which means trying to estimate what a proper market would be, and also to estimate what the natural corrections will be when the borrowing is forced to end, and the artificially low interest rates dry up.

poetvix

''I just wish our leaders would do the same with our money and start telling the truth.''

The recent 2 month approved payroll tax holiday will cost $33 billion, the money to supplement the loss of revenue to the trust fund comes from the general fund, which is borrowed money, which is increasing the size of the 2012 deficit and the national debt. Obama recently requested from Congress another $1.2 trillion to add to the recent approval of raising the national debt

In the new Healthcare Bill, OBAMACARE, Medicare was cut $500 billion , Obama and Company don’t advertise that part of the new healthcare bill. The fact and the truth of the issue is that the cost of healthcare is going up, not down as the Obama administration promised.

Obama will be telling a different story on the campaign trail.

poetvix

TAKE NOTICE when Obama speaks on the campaign trail. Obama claims to be the champion of the middle class, ever does he mention the poor, who are suffering from his actions in running the country. The middle class he speaks of are the union public workers, teachers, fireman and police ,who are bankrupting states, cities and towns throughout the country. The unions want more money and benefits as if 20%+ more than the private sector workers is not enough. The private sector taxpayers are the ones who pay the public workers thru taxes and other miscellaneous TAXES. The governments need to operate on a balanced budget meaning that if the money isn't there , laying off public workers is eminent.

Union demands haven't changed since the early 70's. they don't care if people are laid off to give a few more money and benefits. The problem today is that the politicians have been bought off by the unions in many cases.

poetvix,

First of all this hub is EXCELENT and spot on...loaded with principals and common sense...

Secondly, I am sorry it has taken me so long to find this one...

Third, the way you handle yourself with the several comments is nothing more than first class. Especially one inparticular.

I have become a real fan,

Chris

Since this excellent Hub was written, we have added more than a trillion dollars to our National Debt. This is a great Hub which needs to be revisited. One comment in the last 9 days means it is slipping from our view. The slew of earlier comments were well thought out and productive. Now is the time to be sure we will elect officials who will get the debt under control and pay it down. We are in danger of having more officials chosen who only want to be "short term 'good guys' who, once elected, stay on and on." We don't need 'good politicians,' we need good statesmen and that includes more of our capable women. People who will put America first and politics a distant, distant also ran.

On the whole I found your hub to be interesting and worht a read; I am confused as to #8 & #9....how do they reduce the deficit? Although I agree with you that special interest groups are the blight of politics I'm not sure how they contribute to the debt??? Anyway, thanks for the hub and best of luck to you.

poetvix

An update of ’’ 6.There must be more transparency in government spending. There are entirely too many “other” categories and ambiguous groupings.

Today is 1/15/12, I wrote 4 months ago

2/13/10 2:04 PM EST

President Barack Obama is hailing pay-as-you-go budget legislation he signed Friday night as one in a series of crucial steps needed to snap Washington out of a destructive pattern of overspending.

JUST TO UNDERSTAND THE LAW

The PAY-GO compels new spending or tax changes to NOT ADD to the federal deficit. Not to be confused with pay-as-you-go financing, which is when a government saves up money to fund a specific project. Under PAYGO rules a new proposal must either be "budget neutral"

CONGRESS RETURNS TO WASHINGTON NEXT WEEK

Obama is again asking to raise the national debt limits another $1.2 trillion. The 2011 budget year projects to have a $ 1.4 trillion deficit. The 2012 budget has not been approved as yet ( the House has passed a 2012 budget that is deficit neutral).Obama wants his jobs bill passed, the House has passed 24 jobs bills waiting to be heard and passed in the Senate. Senator Reid refuses to bring the bills to the floor for a vote. Republicans are blamed for not passing Obama’s JOBS BILLS. The press and media continue the propaganda reporting on the state of the economy.

The 2012election campaign promises to be a distortion of the economy, jobs and the economy.

poetvix

HERE'S THE LATEST OBAMA propaganda article.OBAMA TOUTS CUTS FOR GOVERNMENT BY ERICA WERNER

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/01/15/...

SOMEHOW Obama forgets Pay-Go law. More lies to fool the public, business as usual SCREWED BY THE MEDIA.

Excellent hub here is a few additions for thought. A fair tax if everyone paid in proportion to their wealth on equal terms and all write offs were eliminated across the board the rewards would be enormous. Increased wages leads to increased buying power and will result in increased production and taxes. In a capitalist society it is the only real way out of debt. I do not desire to decrease the wages of our Politicians. Pay them more and pay for the elections on a equal basis for all politicians but completely remove all conflicts of interest from Government. No more lobbyist except to form petitions that must meet the required signatures of the population, in order to meet the requirements to petition our Government. Just like all the ordinary people in this country the corporations of America must meet the required signatures in order to petition the Government as required by the same laws of any other citizen. All regulators and approving authorities must be outside of the conflict of interest. No more ex drug or oil company execs running the office of the EPA, FDA and such. Regulation must be used to protect the best interest of the citizen most specifically life given resources such as water and etc. Universal health care is a good idea but the true cost for services and items should have been explored first. If Doctors were not paying enormous costs to be educated we would not be paying a fortune to see his assistant for ten minutes of face to face time for a prescription of aspirin marked up 400 percent. This would be a good start in giving the power back to the people and a balance towards some form of representation.

Thank you for the clarification; having taught Political Science and Economics I had no problem with the other items on your list but I was unclear where you were going with eight and nine. I will continue to say until the day I die that as long as politicians are allowed to take money from special interest groups the needs of the average citizen will always be secondary to the needs of the special interest groups that have billions to spend on their interests.

If the citizen is required to attain thousands of signatures to petition the Government why are the corporations not? What protects the corporations is the claim that they are a person or citizen to begin with. Several vast studies have proven that are tax system is broken and that a fair system would vastly correct our debt. Did you see the list of the top 50 companies who made millions on taxes and paid no taxes for the year? A common tax also makes sense. Any Company using a resource under common law should pay an additional tax when they do not own the commodity and this should be assessed on their profits after sales of such. If I dig up gold on public land I should pay this additional tax on my profits rather then be allowed vast personal wealth by the sell of public resources commonly owned by all Americans. My point on medicine and education is that we are paying enormously marked up prices based on high profits. A percentage of profit based on its real value is more then fair and a huge reason for the high cost of medical care. Its the difference between local college and one of prestige. The cost of a band aid at a store and the same band aid in a hospital. Why should insurance and the tax payer be paying for a Rolls Royce when they could buy a Saturn at wholesale prices. Most everyone who can afford health care insurance still can not afford it when they need it. If I need an ambulance the difference between the company I take is thousands of dollars in difference dependant on which one my insurance company recognizes and this is ridiculous when someone is un-conscience and can not even make the choice or the call for that matter.

poetvix

''My mother is a currently retired nurse and a damn good one with over 30 ''

My daughter is doing ''nurse contracting work ''for a group that supplies nursing help to hospitals, have mom check it out if she hasn't already

good luck

Wow what a response you've got here. Look at Sweden, our finances are excellent despite the crises. Great hub!

Very well-thought-out, researched hub. You make excellent points and back them up. I am going to link your hub to my "Who's to Blame for America's Financial Downfall." Excellent hub. Voted up and across!!

You make some excellent points but I question the Medicare thing for a young person. My understanding of it is that you must be 62 years old or legally disabled and in the Social Security system to get Medicare? Medicaid may be different but it is very complicated to get accepted into Medicaid.

•"The migrant people, scuttling for work, scrabbling to live, looked always for pleasure, dug for pleasure, manufactured pleasure, and they were hungry for amusement."

- John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

Great read. Thanks!

-J.

Do you make good points about waste? Yes, and waste is definitely part of the problem. But all of your solutions assume that every problem is intentionally caused by specific types of people or interest groups taking advantage of some government program.

Some people grow up under very poor conditions with great role models, while others grow up under very rich conditions and have terrible role models, and vice versa etc. etc. No baby starts out with the intention of milking the system once momma takes her's away. More and more it is the case that most people live in deteriorating circumstances, because the middle-class has seen its wages and prospects erode. It's degrading, frustrating, and it makes them physically and emotionally desperate.

Wanna talk about people cheating disability, ok, but let's say they get off it, are you gonna give them a job? If you think jobs are growing on trees, you live in la diddy da da land. I won't blame people in dead end part-time jobs without benefits for taking advantage of their government until that government makes a real effort to solve the employment crisis.

Whether any Constitution loving American wants to admit it, that document was inspired by Enlightenment philosophers who believed that each citizen has a social contract with all the others in which reasonable protections are extended for mutual benefit, including the right to earn a living. We aren't a country without resources, we aren't a country of degenerates, liars and cheaters, we are simply a country without jobs, there's a difference. Maybe most of the people you know are low-lives, but that's not the America I know and I'm dirt poor.

Why aren't you running the world?! A lot of what you have pointed out is the same in all of the other countires - I'm over in England. I cannot tell you how many times my friends and I have argued over this - I have to say I COMPLETELY agree with you x

This is a very interesting hub. Very insightful and well written. There was a commenter (ConsciousMindz) that mentioned that excutive branch has limited control over the legislative branch of which I agree with completely. Yes while Clinton was in office he was able to get the country out of the red and into the black, but he did not do it in fours years. It took him 2 terms to right and wrongs and have the people feeling as if they could breathe again.

Please bear in mind that I am a registered Republican and although I did not vote for Obama; I do believe that we are going to have remain patient and weather the storm. It is comical to me to believe that we as a country believed that all of our troubles started when Mr. Obama went into office.

The country was in a massive recession, the market took a nose dive, foreclosure were at an all time high and the unemployment rate was outrageous before he was sworn in. Not too mention the incredible boom in homeownership for people who knew good and well they could not afford to purchase a home. We as Americans are partially to blame for living outside of our means. Some would say that this all began with the terrible attacks on the country while another CIC (commander in chief) was at the helm.

Poetvix you very eloquently made great suggestions on how to start to clean up the country...emphasis on START. It took us more than four years to get into this quandry and it will take many more to get out.

Poetvix,

I know I already responded but I just wanted you to know that I enjoy your style and the passion you bring to the political debate;it's the same passion I had when I was younger (even ran for office once)but seem to have misplaced it somewhere along the pathway of my life. Keep at it; stir up those beehives and see if you can't make a difference.

One way that the globe could return from this financial chaos is to just say "No" we are not repaying the interest. The interest is made up out of thin air. What would happen if all the countries turned round and said "No" we are not paying it all back? Iceland did. Iceland still here and from reports doing ok. Easy answer I think not. It is as if the world has been put into this position by the banks and no one else...They loaned the money out to people/companies that had no chance of repaying back the debt let alone the interest. After this the tax payers bailed out the banks. Now the banks are still calling the shots??? Time to just say "No" In the UK (Where I am) there is a certain bank, Goldman Sachs who somehow have obtained a tax cut that amounts to millions meanwhile the average person cannot even get a tax delay. Something is very wrong but I believe all it takes is for people to stand up and say "No".

Whenever an analyst is brought in to troubleshoot a system that had been working (in this case, 70 years without an economic depression) she always asks the question, "What has changed?" Corruption is not new, it's probably not even as bad today as it has been in the last hundred years. What has changed is the number of people working today and the quality of life the average job can afford to buy.

In 50 years, we went from 59% to a peak of 67% of Americans ages 16 and over participating in the workforce in 2000. An 8% increase. We dropped 3% in just 11 years to 64.0% today and it's not going up. Imagine losing almost half our gains from the 50 most productive years of the wealthiest economy on the planet. If we're lucky, job creation will keep up with population this decade.

You think that if we suddenly abolish the Fed, the one entity that gives us even a modicum of control over the money supply and has overseen 70 years of economic stability, greater than any other time in historical records, that somehow the magic of free markets is going to free up more jobs? Don't you know that we have reliable data for hundreds of years of Free Market economics, and none grew the middle-class more than the 40 years after World War II.

Please, step back and consider that something else more fundamental is at work. We have never had technology as advanced as we have today and it is displacing workers all over the world. Isn't it just conceivable that we are transitioning into a time where there isn't enough work to go around, because our technology allows just a fraction of the people to serve the needs of everyone else. Translation, fewer hours, same pay, more quality time with our families and to explore what it means to be alive. And I agree, to give us more security and time to act on the purposes that God has assigned to us. Don't you think that a lot of people would like to volunteer to do good works more often? But they can barely afford gas in the car. I'm in education also, I tutor developmental math, but guess what, I can't afford to do it for free.

Legalize weed and tax it - not only would that increase government revenues, but it would reduce the prison population, which is one of the biggest systems of waste we have

Follow my suggestion on Illegal Immigration (in a nutshell, fine and tax all the illegal immigrants)

Audit all government agencies, fire the (approx) 10% of workers who don't do their jobs, but come to work and collect a paycheck

Limits on all social programs. Everyone could need help every now and then, nobody needs help for thier entire lives.

Stop paying people to have children they can't afford.

Just a few suggestions!!

No, I'm sorry you are so certain that your opinions are right. Since I see that God has some importance to you, let me put it in religious terms. God doesn't interfere with the pain and suffering that we inflict on ourselves or others. This is because God's concern is not with our physical condition but with our spiritual condition. If God wanted us to be comfortable, we wouldn't have been put on Earth and communication wouldn't with God wouldn't be as limited. We have something to learn.

Your ideas display a fear of losing material things because of dishonest people, where as mine show a fear of losing the love that we share with each other. I don't assume everyone is doing it on purpose. And God is not going to miracle us out of our troubles. God waits to see how we react to the situation around us, then makes a judgment, and only God can judge 100%. Your ideas to stop giving aid to underdeveloped countries, force parents off disability when they say they aren't ready, telling people there will be jobs once they give up the only power they have against the power of money (i.e. the vote), all of these opinions suggest you know better. Do you think you can convince God that you know better? My suggestion when you get there, drop the righteous smugness.

I'll be writing some articles addressing the holes in the arguments you make. Not to harass but to offer your readers an alternative. They will be waiting for you when you realize that it's too late for everyone to go back to the farm.

You hit every major topic. So thorough! Agreed on nearly every point!

@Poetvix - Thank you so much for the reply. It is so refreshing to interact with thought provoking adults for a change....rather than those oblivious to the issues that we will be leaving behind for our children. God bless you for being so passionate about our country. We don't have enough people taking a stand vehemently for what they believe in!!!

Governments do not change easily. Its people pressure that compels government to change.

The US need a revolution. Thanks for posting such nice hub. Rated up and useful.

I have also written few hubs related to the topic. You can feel free to check

You know, I hear the issue of foreign aid come up all the time anytime a group of people start talking about our nations debt. Like you, I'm all for charity, but blows my mind how we send so much money overseas while our own citizens are suffering. Not to mention, if we're that far in debt, do we really have the cash to throw around? Well written hub, keep it up!!

http://www.policehired.com/

poetvix, Your ideas and information are great and terrific! Every single avenue seems to be covered. It is sad that we know the problems and then let our politicians continue the way that they are. We keep paying into and playing the system, knowing that it is faulty, dishonest and corrupt. The control of money seems to be the way to stop the problem. The Elite at the top depends on money, the continued flow of money and control of the people's minds. Stopping the money flow and confidence of the people might work both ways, but where would this start or end? Thank you for such a thought provoking article. FANTASTIC !!!!! THANK YOU !!!

poetvix

‘’How To Fix the Debt Crisis in America’’

In Nov. throw the bums out starting with the present leadership.

Check this out!

The government, as the President would say, invested $500 million in a green job project, result of which produced 8,000 jobs. Will the press report how bad the investment and the return on investment was? Investments made by President Obama, after spending $1 trillion of taxpayer borrowed money, have not in 3 years returned a profit or a dividend to the taxpayers.

Since 2009 the size of the US Government has grow 20% under the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION. The government is the largest employer in the country. Unemployment in government is only 3%, unemployment in the private sector is 8.5% plus depending on which part of the country you are discussing. Senator Coburn’s report is what the mainstream media should be reporting, has anyone seen a expose of Congress lately. Oh I just remembered that Congress is made up of the House and the Senate.

The Republican controlled House ( 2011 TO PRESENT ) has passed a 2012 budget and have sent 24 jobs bills to the Senate for debate, amend and/or approve. The Democrat controlled (2007- to present ) Senate leadership refuse to put the bills on the floor. Next time President Obama blames Congress, consider that he NEVER mentions the ’’ DELAY THE VOTE ’’ Democrat Senate.

First off, I agree with the majority of options you suggest in reducing the debt. Your hub does a nice job of examining many options that are possible to fix the debt crisis and you did an excellent job of citing a good variety of sources. A few of these solutions, like cutting elected officials pay, and changing the funding for elections are great suggestions that the American public needs to push. However, I am concerned that many of the other options would not likely get done due to the sheer complexity of the issue, and the overabundance in the actors involved in order to complete a solution. Thus explaining why many of these policies haven't gone into place already. Also, I think we tend to forget the most obvious thing that the federal gov't needs to do in this time, something that Republicans and Democrats both want but would never agree on. Like any budget making process where you're in the red - whether its personal, private business, government, you need to increase revenue and decrease spending. This is the bottom line that everyone seems to forget. We propose lots of temporary solutions that can fill in the gap but at the end of the day in order to get out of debt we will have to generate more (likely tax) revenue while spending less. We just have to hope that the American voter can understand the big picture and know that when their taxes raise they will actually be receiving less services because these funds are more needed in debt repayment. With a more prudent budget like this, and as many of the solutions you provided above the U.S. can significantly lower the debt and not leave such a large burden on our next generation.

Bludwiczac--please consider that there is ZERO need to raise taxes. None. Nada. Spending for this year was about 3.5 trillion. Tax receipts were about 2.2 trillion.

BUT the hopelessly bloated federal government budget was under 2.2 trillion as recently as 2003. Does anyone think the government wasn't WAY too big in 2003?

In 2000, the federal budget was 1.8 trillion. There is PLENTY of money, what needs to go is SPENDING. If we eliminate all unConstitutional federal operations there'd be nothing but military, courts, post office, and a few other odds and ends like the patent office.

Combine that with an opt-out and grandfather-out for Social Security and Medicare (both also unConstitutional, but we need very gradually to ween people off who were made false promises that CANNOT be kept and try to RETURN THEIR MONEY TO THEM) and the federal budget will fall down to about a trillion or less. 2.2 trillion in tax receipts would pay the debt down in a hurry on a 1 trillion spend.

Further, government WASTES the money which DESTROYS living standards. The economy is being crushed because our OVERHEAD RATE, the weight of government, is too high to compete.

Anyone who thinks higher taxes will balance budgets is missing the ABSOLUTE REALITY that this will just further strangle and kill American business. Tax receipts are going to FALL HARD if we don't get the crushing overhead cost of our wasteful government off the back of private industry.

Honestly, we may all have to go on strike. It may be the only way to tell them no. Otherwise, they will put everyone out of work except the tax-collectors and the police-state bureaucrats anyway.

The fighting will start before unemployment falls that far. And each of us will be on his own with whomever sides with him.

poetvix

Just an update to a previous post.

Caught a glimpse of a news clip on Fox News today, 2/2/12, of President Obama signing a document with Congresswoman Waters and other Democrats standing behind Obama.What caught my eye was just after the President signed the document, he raised his hand high with a drawn fist. I thought who is this President and what does he represent? Check out this site to get an idea who Obama apparently represents.

http://www.docspopuli.org/articles/Fist.html

Excerpts:

It showed up almost immediately within the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS, which used it in flier for the 1968 Chicago National Democratic Convention protest)[5].

One of the groups involved in the 2011 popular uprisings that toppled the Egyptian government recycled OTPOR's fist (see #13) [15].

The Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011 that spread throughout the US proved fertile ground for more street graphics - some new [22][23], some recycling the iconic "hand" of Frank Cieciorka [24, 25].

The President supports radical groups and other activist groups. Visitors to the white house includes Andy Stern (president of SEIU), Trumpka ( president of CIO-AFL) and George Soros, They All represent special interest ,who apparently have advised the President at one time or another. Really, how can Obama be trusted to govern our country in these troubled times? The President has shown NO leadership, Obama is an obstructionist and a major part of the nation’s problems.

poetvix

On the news today, President Obama spoke of his Christian values today. A few verses out of the bible regarding how Christ would want the poor treated and on how the rich should act on helping the poor by paying more taxes. Again saying that Congress should not mess things up because the recovery is underway. Sorry to say Obama said nothing about the jobs bills passed in the House that are being held up in the Senate by the Democrats.

Check this out

Barak Obama A Muslim , Watch The Videos And See What You Think?

From the mouth of candidate Barack Obama 2008

http://crazyhorsesghost.hubpages.com/hub/Obama-Adm...

poetvix

I RECENTLY POSTED A REPLY ON ANOTHER HUB

''Now is NOT the time to cut spending, but to INCREASE spending.'' ''The 'economic stimulus' given to the various city and state governments..'' ''trying to feed money through the top, has far more immediate impact, actually create jobs immediately, and leaves a lasting legacy.'' NOT SO!

THE SCORECARD

Tarp was $700 billion, the Stimulus started at $750 billion is now $1 trillion, 3 consecutive $1.2 trillion deficits which raised the National Debt over $16 trillion. It cost $1 billion a year to manage paying the debt. The US Government’s credit rating reduced from triple AAA by a credit agency.

President Obama and his party want to increase revenue by raising taxes on millionaires and billionaires. The Presidents plan is to get money into the economy . Obama extends unemployment benefit to 99 weeks, gives so called tax breaks to working citizens ( payroll taxes ) and continues funding the green energy industry. All of the above did not accomplish the main goal of getting people back to work as promised.

The solutions to stop the madness was when the House passed the Cut,Cap and Balanced Budget bill back in November2011.The Senate killed the bill and have done nothing to solve the problems.

The Senator Coburn report '' WASTE IN GOVERNMENT'' http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/rightnow...

WASTE IN GOVERNMENT ALL IN THE RED

‘’ Back In Black’’

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs

poetvix

The election of 2012 will determine the faith of our country. I recently posted

. The quotes are from a Obama supporter.

It is also amazing how much Obama has done even with the resistance of Congress''

SOME HOW SOMEBODY IS MISSING THE FACTS.

1.The Democrats have had majority control of the Senate (1/2 of CONGRESS) since 2007 -2012.

Note, Senator Obama was in the Senate during the Bush era.

2.The Democrats have had majority control of the House (1/2 of CONGRESS) since 2007 - Jan. 2011.

3. THE DEMOCRATS HAVE HAD 2/3s CONTOL of our government since 2007-2012.

Somehow the Democrats blame the Bush administration and the present Republican controlled House for all the countries problems.WOW

Obama and mainstream media's propaganda machines should be commended for having done a fantastic job of half truths and misinformation on the American people. There is an old saying, ’’ seek the truth, the truth will set you FREE ’’.

Excellent hub. You articulated the message we face quite succinctly "Ladies and gentlemen, fellow Americans and fellow hubbers, we are in, as they say, deep sh#t."

Loving the poetvix

Chelseacharleston - I'm with you - "There's a balance to be found based on common sense and consideration for everyone on the planet."

We live in a universe of abundance - it is simply wrong that so much wealth in the world is in the hands of "oh so few."

mankind has to give up the struggle to survive and learn to love life and love living. We have to stop getting so excited about manufacturing things and start getting excited about building character.

It is not about left verse right politically - it is about being Human Again! No longer can we avoid the truth that "governments and business today - do not hold the solution" ... WE DO!!!

poetvix - Ah! Therein lies the misconception as I see it. You said "we have to find a way to make those in power do it" -- I totally disagree. We have to take back the power we have given them and get it done ourselves. We need to stop playing by their rules. Big Business and Big Governments only have "perceived" power... because we give it to them.

They do not hold the solution - We Do!

This is some good stuff and i totally agree with a lot of this.

for suggestions on how we can achieve that......

1- first and foremost it is an attitude. We see ourselves as powerless rather than powerful. We need to stop pointing to big business and big government for solutions and first see ourselves as powerful.

2- Once we see ourselves as powerful ideas begin to flow. We will realize that building character first starts with the person in the mirror.

3- Once we see ourselves in that light we will start "working" on ourselves and "influence" those around us. See my hub on the power of duplication - I share a HUGE tidbit on how change takes place

4- stop investing our money into the system designed to keep the rich richer and start investing in our own neighborhood... what is the benefit of earning a good return on your money when our own communities start breaking down?

I could go on and on - but the root of change starts with the 4 points above.... see some of my hubs for more of my thoughts.

poetvix

check this discussion out and tell us what Fox News is doing as you proclaim.a liberal hubber said

3/25/12

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/inde...

White House senior adviser, David Plouffe

Unbiased and uncut! Fair and balanced?

March 25, 2012 ‘’?"The new Republican budget plan:’’ ’’smoke, smoke…’’.

Rep. Paul Ryan

House Budget chairman defends GOP budget plan

Last years House budget 2012 was debated and voted on and sent to the Senate in march 2011.That’s the way the process works as per the CONSTITUTION. The Senate takes the bill to the floor and debates, amends and than votes. For the past 3 Obama years ( our leader )the Senate did not allow our elected officials of both parties to carry out the duties of their office.

The We the People are being cheated by the leadership. This is the ‘’FAIRNESS’’ that our President spoke about recently in the State of the Union speech?

$15,587,023,000,000. is the current figure and growing faster than before due to interest and increased spending. I hear the locomotive coming down the track and the train of debt is gaining speed. Time for Superman not Clark Kent or The Joker.

Start something right now you said - I shared a way to start "something" right now in my hub Pioneering the next economy. Connect that hub with my hub on the power of duplication and you will see we are already powerful.

When you point to the government or to big business... notice one finger (index finger) points out to them - but four fingers point back to yourself. That says it all!

Good golly poetvix, I think this hubs commentary section goes down fifty six miles and turns left, that in itself cannot be politically correct by any standard. Groovy hub though,I doubt I can crawl my way back to the top again. You go girl. I have a few new cultish cool things posted this week and one I sent to you in a message in Facebook. Check it and learn how to stop getting so many fans. LMAO. xoxo Blake4d

Check this guy out.... Jacque Fresco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgNSY1d40eI

Neil posted a link to the founder of the Venus Project. Which basically complains about wrongs, but doesn't seem to offer any answers. Further, the more I dug into the Venus Project, it looks like it is simply repackaged world socialism.

Socialism is the opposite of freedom. Fresco rightly points out that all governments are corrupt. But all the things Fresco seems to be advocating imply an unmentioned, all-powerful world government of the honest and enlightened.

Well, no offense, but he should have stopped at "all governments are corrupt," including the new one he wants to create.

The answer is individual liberty. NO mandates of any kind, no one forced in any way to do anything against his will, so long as it is not a DIRECT and demonstrable threat to the life, liberty, or property of another INDIVIDUAL.

The proper use of force is simply to resist the force of others when used to compel people against their wills. The only proper use of force is to defend life, liberty, and property. The only law should be protecting a CLEAR VICTIM from a CLEAR ASSAILANT.

All other law IS THE ASSAILANT.

It's frightening how much our government spends... and it's only going to get worse.

poetvix

check this out.

March 25, 2012

Rep. Paul Ryan defends GOP budget plan

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/inde.../v/1529380822001/rep-paul-ryan-defends-gop-budget-plan/?playlist_id=86913

The dems are misinforming the public regarding the 2013 Ryan budget plan. The House passed the new budget a couple of days ago.THE HOUSE VOTED ON PRESIDENT OBAMA'S 2013 budget, THE VOTE WAS 414-0 AGAINST HIS BUDGET. The Senate hasn't passed a budget in over 1100 days.A pittiful example on how the DEMOCRAT CONTROLED SENATE is working to fix the economy.When Obama claims that Congress is the problem. let'

s not forget who he really should be Talking about.

Why has this not been front page news?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS

http://community.adlandpro.com/forums/post/2469821...

Hi Vix. You are still generating a lot of traffic and interest to your article. Good for you darlin'. Keep up the good work.

Excellent Hub. I can't believe how much money our elected peeps waste. It is my money and it makes me mad that it is being wasted on entitlements, boondoggles, and paybacks.

poetvix

The latest on 4/01/12 ( april fools day)

Check this out. In true time, uncut and the actual view un censored.

STEPHANOPOULOS: This Week on CBS

The last comment on the Ryan budget by Congressman Van Hollen was untrue and Congressman Ryan was not allowed to respond. The commentator switched to the healthcare/ supreme court hearings rather than let Ryan respond.

The video

http://republicanredefined.com/2012/04/01/contrast...

A article

http://republicanredefined.com/2012/04/01/contrast...

High Gas prices

VAN HOLLEN says ‘’

The president has reached out to other oil-producing countries around the world. And they have got a STRATEGY now to GET MORE OIL on the market. That should drive down prices’’. Really increase production!

PAUL RYAN says ‘’Let’s get our oil that is locked on public lands by President Obama. Let’s open up the Keystone pipeline to bring Canadian oil into our country to dramatically reduce our dependency on foreign oil. It creates jobs here in America. It lowers gas prices, increases supply’’. MAKES SENSE to me!

VAN HOLLEN: Domestic oil production is at an all-time high. I think we know that’s a fact ( a half truth )

RYAN: That’s private land, not public land.

There is a huge difference to producing on public land compared to private land. On public land the Government gets addition monies. Oil producers pay for leases, a royalty of approximately $ 18 a barrel besides the 40% of taxes gained from the PROFIT’S the oil companies pay. Oh ,let’s not forget AMERICAN jobs. Back in 2008 candidate Obama promised jobs? Obama did say that the government needs to increase revenues.

Note, on previous Ryan BUDGET link , cut and paste link Un cut, unabridged and the real thing explained by Congressman Ryan in detail.

http://jon-ewall.hubpages.com/

?

poetvix

Obama is pushing Congress to pass the Buffet Rule bill. What Obama and Buffet are not telling the American people is how the bill will effect the small investor and others who rely on dividends and other income producing investments. Check these out for FAIRNESS.

Buffett Rule Bill Before the Senate Is a Small Step Towards Tax Fairness

http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2012/04/buffett_rule_bil...

THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY

Eleven ways Warren Buffett is lying with Barak Obama

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/blog/stu/eleve-wa...

4/10/12

Potential impact of Obama's 'Buffett rule'

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/your-world-cavuto/in.../v/1555656093001/potential-impact-of-obamas-buffett-rule/?playlist_id=86929

Very good hub to discuss a very important issue. In my opinion, you get out of debts if you organize everything priority wise.

Your article is fabulous and so are the comments that ensued. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Thank you for expressing your discerning wisdom. God Bless!

James :-)

James A Watkins

In Nov. the people will have their chance to correct the problems created by the ruling party.They have had 2/3s controll of the government since 2007 up to the present 2012.

Respectfully, Mr. Ewall, in November the people will not have their chance to correct the problems created by the ruling party.

Rather, in November, the people will have their chance to throw out the ruling party in favor of a different party that will largely do all the same things, and will certainly not show any fiscal responsibility.

Unless one believes that write-in candidates can win, or unless people WORK to get Ron Paul, and other real, small-government Constitutionalists, into office. But the odds are that almost nobody on the ballot will have any intent to "correct the problems created by the ruling party." And more accurately, these problems were not created by "the ruling party" but by both major parties.

poetvix

SURPRISE SURPRISE,Obama and the Democrats won.

The ''fiscal cliff'', President Obama negotiating with Speaker Boehner to solve the problem. The solution is simple, government needs to follow the law!

2/13/10 Pay Go Law

The President lied?

http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&...

Where are the news media reports?

NEXT is to cut WASTE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/17/senator...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/health/policy/ga...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/13/usda-mo...

https://hubpages.com/politics/barakobamacampaignpr...

https://hubpages.com/politics/Obamacare-Anatomy-of...

Renewable energy money still going abroad, despite criticism from Congress

http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investig...

GOVERNMENT WASTE the past 5 years, the Social Security Trust fund has paid $400 billion to dead federal employees.

So thankful that there is still common sense in this country. You can't go around helping everyone (both at home and abroad) when there is literally no money left to help them.

I'm glad the focus is on government spending, not on taxing the rich which only helps mitigate the spending for a few days- yet has somehow become the focus of all socioeconomic debates.

Californialaw

The problem is that the country is working in the red. When that happens , you go to bankruptcy, many more poor and middle class will be hurt most. The President can be heard, '' I'm fighting for the middle class '', '' I want to build the economy from the middle class up''. Listen closely, Obama hardly ever mentions fighting for the poor, wonder why? The Obama led government takes in $5 billion/day and spends $11 billion/day.

Raising taxes on the so called rich will not help the middle class or poor. Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person or a middle class person? The uneducated and people who are not in the know believe the President.

Government waste is the problem. The President and Congress can solve the problems tomorrow by following the law and by allowing Senators to express their beliefs by debating, amending and voting. The House has passed a bill to solve the '' fiscal cliff''. Don't be fooled, call your Senator and ask him to VOTE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/17/senator...

http://majorityleader.gov/JobsTracker/

FISCAL CLIFF, why?

2/13/10 Pay Go Law

The President lied?

http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&...

Pay-go law

New taxes = cuts in todays ( not over 10 years ) budgeted money = deficit/ cost neutral.

The President wanted $800 billion in new revenue, Boehner got it. President now wants $1 trillion, Boehner will find it . Obama will never agree because Obama can’t come up with or will come up with $1 trillion in CUTS . Obama’s gimmick ( fooling the people ) is cutting in 10 years. As far back as Bush 1, the Democrats have promised to cut and as of today NEVER delivered. WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

President Obama is responsible for the ‘’ fiscal cliff’’ collapse of the economy and the government.

Jon I think you read my comment too quickly...haha :) I completely agree with all of that.

But President Obama didn't do it alone- as the last election showed this country is truly divided.

barry ritholtz would be proud of this post. Thanks Jon.

hubbers

12/19/12

Here's the latest if you didn't see it.

12/19/12

President Obama’s Fiscal Cliff Plan “Balance” not true

http://www.speaker.gov/general/president-obama-s-f...

Obama Fiscal Cliff Speech: I 'Won't Compromise' On Taxes

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/obama-fis... "won't compromise" on his demands that the wealthiest Americans pay higher tax rates

Cooking the books an Obama specialty ( hokus pokus)

House plan ‘’B’’

http://www.speaker.gov/general/what-s-plan-b-bill-...

http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&...

The President and the Democrat’s problem is that they haven't presented the necessary cuts to comply with the PAY-GO LAW. The Democrats cuts are calculated over 10 years, pay-go requires the cuts to be in the exiting budgets. The previous agreement cuts between the parties was a fraud. The Democrats never allowed the agreed cuts to occur hence one of the reasons that the nation is on a path of destroying the American way of life. The President is stalling and the next calamity is the national debt problem.

Senate on July 19,2011. https://hubpages.com/politics/PRESIDENTBARACKOBAMA...

Poetvix - have you considered the possibility that you simply misunderstand what the "national debt" really is? (Don't worry if you haven't questioned the conventional wisdom, because you certainly won't be alone.)

Think about these questions:

Where does money come from?

If you could print your own currency (like our government can), why would you borrow that same currency?

Who even has $15 trillion U.S. dollars to loan us?

If America is really in debt up to our eyeballs and facing bankruptcy, why is everybody still buying up our bonds at miniscule yields? And why is our interest rate so incredibly low?

Now, consider these answers: Money comes from the government. They print up the stuff, so there is no need to borrow. Our government has, over the years, created about $15 trillion by deficit spending. Government bonds are now used as a savings vehicle - people/banks/countries with large amounts of dollars often exchange their dollars for bonds, which are risk-free and pay a bit of interest. And the interest rate on those bonds is incredibly low because the government sets the interest rate.

So the government prints up money, spends it into circulation, we use it, most of it ends up in the hands of rich people, banks, and countries with which we have a trade deficit, and those entities hold those dollars in the form of bonds. It's not a debt situation at all. There is no reason to "pay off the debt" at all. That's just how fiat currency economies operate.

JohnfrmCleveland

''They print up the stuff, so there is no need to borrow. Our government has, over the years, created about $15 trillion by deficit spending.'' If we are not in debt, why is the government paying $1 billion/ day in interest payments to the creditors of those who purchased the bonds? Every time the government prints more money, the value of that money is reduced. We are in an inflationary period today, everything is requiring more dollars to purchase needed necessaties of life.

Like I said before, the government issues bonds for the purpose of controlling the overnight interest rate. The interest paid does no harm to our economy. The value of money does not go down every time money is printed, because approximately the same amount is retired by bonds sales - the actual amount of dollars in play is pretty stable, and only increases slowly. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/WCURCI...

Today's inflation is primarily due to the increased cost of oil. It is certainly not due to demand-pull inflation, or we would be seeing across-the-board inflation plus a greatly devalued dollar versus other currencies, neither of which is happening.

Stop voting in LAWYERS and BUSINESSMEN into our offices!!!!!

These professions breed liars, so why do we keep voting them into our government is beyond me.

It doesn't matter who you vote in. They all become corrupt. "W" seemed honest and sincere but Cheney ran things and boy did he run it to he max. Clinton had all kinds of weird dealings. George Herbert, well did nothing good, except make SNL funny once more. Obama is just 8 yrs of talk. To change things, you need to help fund your senator's vacation home, season ticket to games, a corporate jet, etc. To get these guys on your side, someone is always going to get paid, in my opinion. Delays make projects and goals just cost more. More pocket money for them. 10 yrs in Afghanistan is no mistake.

I tried to read all of the commentary here plus the article and it just made my head spin.

Everyone has their own version of politics and beliefs, hence the need for numerous politicians that supposedly represent these needs.

The bottom line to get out of any debt crisis, whether personal or governmental is basic common sense.

When you don't have money you can't spend it.

If you owe money, then you best be thinking about how you are going to pay it off.

No one in their right mind would go out and pay their neighbors bills when they had money, let alone when there is no money to pay your own.

If you want to dig yourself out of a financial hole, you have to do 2 things:

1) Stop spending money except for the necessities which are not optional. Everyone has to live and be healthy enough so that they can go to work to make the money they need to get out of their hole.

2) If the income you make is not enough to cover basic necessities, let alone enough to start paying down your debt, then guess what? You have to get another job or source income in order to cover the gap in order to meet these needs.

Once you have done this and dug yourself out of your hole, then you best not make the same mistake twice to put yourself back in there.

I am not against charity or helping others, as there but for the grace of God go I, as most average Americans are just a few paychecks away from being on the street themselves.

However in order to avoid this, by ensuring that we have our own affairs in order and that our families are taken care of first, this then puts us in a more secure position to be able to then focus on helping others.

This logic applies at any level and should be the mantra of our country in order to fix our current mess.

As mentioned above, I tried to read some of the comments too, but way too many... how's about the simple, control your own finances and take responsibility for ones actions. Don't spend more than you make / take in and behave.

Advice both for people and governments.

Our national debt is a problem we've made for ourselves, by placing trust in "someone else" to fix the problem for us.

But all this turmoil and all these problems we're having, was designed that way. It is *not* something that was designed to fight that you could win, it was designed to fail on purpose so that people fight against whatever solution is proposed.

Why all the conspiracy theories?

Sovereign countries can make their own money. It doesn't have to come from anywhere else, it doesn't have to have any intrinsic value (like gold), and - most importantly - there is nobody to be "paid back." Countries print money for the use of their population, and that is that.

Even China runs a deficit. Yes, China, king of the exporters, runs a fiscal deficit. They have to - where else would they get the renminbi to operate? Other countries don't print renminbi, do they?

Poetvix said: "First, the national debt is money that is credited by the bean counters as being owed by our country. That means said debt, be it legitimate or not, will be either defaulted upon or will have to be paid ultimately by the citizenry."

The national debt won't ever have to be paid. But we could pay it off tomorrow if we wanted to, simply by printing up about $14 trillion dollars and exchanging them for the outstanding bonds. But those bondholders (banks, China, Japan, etc.) prefer to hold bonds instead of cash (that's why they exchanged them in the first place). They could always cash them in and spend them, but they choose not to.

"The downgrade of America’s credit has direct results affecting interest rates that affect most of us..."

Actually, the downgrade had no effect on bond yields at all. Right after the last downgrade, short-term bonds were selling for a 0% yield. You don't get any safer than 0%, and the folks who buy bonds are not the least bit worried about America's ability to print up more dollars. Nor are they worried about inflation.

"I have to admit having read your comment twice. I’m about to read it again for I feel there is something really juicy in it that I’m missing… It’s driving me nuts!"

Keep reading. It's in there.

Hubbers

Debt is debt and not paying bond holders the interest on the debt triggers a default. A default will trigger massive increases in interest rates.The dollar is the basis of world trade.Devaluation of the dollar increases the cost of products such as oil which uses the dollar for payments. The US credit was lower simply because of the nations spending appetite.

The fiscal cliff law recently passed by the 113th Congress was designed to reduce the deficit,by raising taxes on income of $400,000 actually added $74 billion in spending through changes in the tax law.

Congress just added $70 billion worth of new loopholes.

FISCAL CLIFF, why? 2/13/10 Pay Go Law

The President lied?

http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&...

Taxes were raised in the law, so why wasn't there spending cuts to offset the new taxes. Just another promise from Obama and the Democrat Senate?

2/19/13 SEQUESTRATION WAKE UP AMERICA

The President blaming Republicans are lies The Democrat Senate has not voted..

A solution CUT WASTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs

http://majorityleader.gov/JobsTracker/

https://hubpages.com/politics/PRESIDENTBARACKOBAMA...

Obama quotes today

’’So now Republicans in Congress face a simple choice:’’

. I’ve put tough cuts and reforms on the table. I am willing to work with anybody to get this job done’’

NOT TRUE

Folks, the nature of various types of money is a bit difficult to understand. Fiat currency, backed by nothing, is particularly hard to make sense of, because most people’s only experience with it is the phase of its life PRIOR to collapse and ruin. Put another way, you believe in it because you don’t know differently…yet.

Further, a central bank with unlimited power to create money can THEORETICALLY go on forever without defaults, but then John From Cleveland’s little (read: BIG) lie about inflation won’t be able to remain hidden. It is NOT that the money created out of thin air does not make for inflation, as he falsely claims, it is that they work to manage that devaluation from being too noticeable to you.

The Fed’s job is to boil the frog (you) slowly enough that you don’t notice and rise up to resist the theft of inflation. This only works for a while, until there is a crisis. Most recently, 2008. Then they create LOT of money in short order to stop crisis defaults. But it can roll for a surprisingly long time with people unaware.

Yet you can see it if you bother to look. Gold was $700 not so long before the crisis. Now it’s $1600. Gas was $2. Now it’s almost $4. The DOW collapsed below 7000. Now it’s back at 14,000. But your wages have not doubled. You are more poor. And the crisis of 2008 must be spun so you don’t realize that the real victim is YOU, and the real beneficiaries are the central bankers and their friends. To whom you are now in FAR greater debt than you were just a few years ago. It’s the old “company store” racket. Thomas Jefferson warned about it.

What REALLY happens over time is you, as a citizen, end up in DEBT to the central bankers, and this is ENFORCED by government. You end up working to repay it. You become a slave to this debt. And make no mistake, even though the money is created out of thin air, YOUR LABOR AND YOUR CONFISCATED PROPERTY ARE VERY REAL, and the government will take these things from you with the threat of REAL guns, and they will CONSUME them with their central banker cronies.

The reason there is so much resistance to auditing the Fed is that it is a racket. The greatest racket ever. And it didn’t start with the Fed, the central bankers have been doing this for hundreds of years. And they hop from great empire to great empire. 1913 is when they cracked the US, which was a real THREAT to their racket until then, with the amazing success of the gold-backed dollar.

To understand the racket better, put yourself in the central bank’s shoes, to see how magical it is to be DEEMED a MONEY CREATOR by FIAT (aka: law).

Case 1, with REAL money: your friend wants to buy a house, and he asks you to lend him the 150k to buy it. You are rich, and you sell off cars, stereos, land, until you have a 150k in cash to lend. You do so, and now he pays you interest. He has to go WORK. Grow crops, build cars, sweep floors, whatever, to repay that debt. All fine. And you can see it is not magic: YOU, the LENDER, are without the REAL ASSETS it took for you to raise the 150k.

Case 2: with FIAT money. Same deal, but you are the central bank with the power of FIAT. You can CREATE money out of thin air. Your friend wants to borrow 150k to buy a house. You CREATE 150k of new money out of thin air. The money supply is now LARGER. Again, the borrower has to WORK to PAY YOU. BUT, now he is not paying you for the use of your REAL ASSETS, but rather, he is paying you because you were ANNOINTED BY FIAT, by law, as a special CONNECTED person with the power to create money. He’s working HARD for YOU, but you didn’t DO or LEND anything REAL. You simply have the POWER to create wealth. He’s now working for the banker NOT because the banker did anything real, but because the BANKER IS THE CHOSEN ONE.

If you think the magic benefit to the banker in Case 2 is too good to be true, it is. It comes at a price. Paid by everyone else. If you think the magic of FIAT MONEY must STEAL the value of everyone else’s savings, you are right again.

We all know that counterfeiting in our basements steals from everyone else. At its core, it is no different when the central bankers do it. They just have the law’s guns and spin on their side. But at its essence, it is the same racket. When the dollar was backed by gold, it was like Case 1 above. And for over a hundred years (minus unbacked printing crimes like the Civil War “greenbacks”), goods got CHEAPER. Slow, healthy deflation. The dollar would buy MORE tomorrow, not less.

That’s the natural order of societal advancement. Aside from certain scarce resources, things get CHEAPER. We can ALWAYS know how to make anything as cheaply as we did yesterday, and we almost always get better at it. Computers are an example where it has gotten so much better that prices have actually gone down even with overall inflation. But since the creation of the Fed, the opposite is true. Since the Fed was created, the dollar has lost 98+ percent of its value. READ THAT AGAIN. For 100 years before the Fed, the dollar INCREASED IN VALUE. Since the Fed, the dollar has LOST 98% of its value. That value didn’t vanish, it WENT INTO THE HANDS OF THE CENTRAL BANKERS AND THEIR CRONIES, with some crumbs tossed out to the masses.

So ask yourself again if you can believe John from Cleveland. Ask yourself if it CAN BE TRUE that the national debt doesn’t need to be paid back because more money can be created AND that prices won’t skyrocket, to where bread costs $10 or $100 a loaf, while your income stagnates. Further, consider the racket that turns natural deflation into inflation. IMAGINE how rich are the folks whose shell game allows them to eat up ALL THE SOCIETAL EFFICIENCY GAINS that should make everything cheaper, and skim enough that all things get more expensive. It’s the greatest known theft in all of history. Period.

When Clinton left office we had a surplus in the billions, after Bush left office we had a deficit in the trillions, the problem started there. I feel like puppets on strings, we must do what we are told but nobody is there to satisfy our needs. Where is our Voice? Great Hub

The Clinton "surplus" was an accounting gimmick. The budgets were also not "Clinton's" but a product of divided rule, with Clinton in the White House and a GOP congress. Anyone calling it a "Clinton" surplus is either trying to fool you or has been fooled by someone else.

Regardless of what one thinks of Craig Steiner, or the rest of his piece, there's a really good explanation of the accounting gimmick here:

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/craigsteine...

In a way it's pretty simple. Because government can borrow from itself, one must look at the sum total of all the books, rather than a subset. A bit like with personal finances. If you spend more than you make each month, but stick it all on a credit card for a couple of months, your checking account balance can rise. Looks good, but it isn't the real picture of what is going on.

As before, anyone saying that Bush "is where the problem started" is either trying to fool you, or has been fooled.

That was not to say Bush wasn't a disaster, both with a GOP Congress and without. He was. But getting to the root of the problem, so as to reach a solution, means being honest about the criminal sins of both major parties.

There is a ruling class that comprises BOTH of the two major party establishments. While many of them may well hate each other, their racket is MORE dependent on keeping the populace divided and incapable of rational discussion than it is on defeating the other party. They are like divorce lawyers. Keep the unhappy couple frothing at each other and use that take them for all they are worth.

The central banking racketeers have BOTH major party establishments in their pocket.

Thanks for the very kind words PoetVix. And thanks for running a good discussion.

You probably know politics better than I do, but I was watching the History channel or some other relatively reliable source a night or so ago and they referenced the exact numbers regarding the surplus post Clinton and pre Bush. Quite frankly I felt fairly safe in the hands of Clinton, I don't really care who was under his desk. I felt extremely vulnerable under Bush and couldn't help but feel the need to refrain from laughing whenever I watched him publicly speak, which isn't actually funny at all considering he was supposed to be running our nation. Now, Obama? I don't even know anymore. You kind of have to put your faith in whoever is running your country, though I feel like we are in a rut and I don't know that he has the ability to get us out.

Cantuhearmescream

''When Clinton left office we had a surplus in the billions, after Bush left office we had a deficit in the trillions,'' REALLY

Obama’s Deficit Dodge

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/09/obamas-deficit-do...

Bush's deficit was $600 billion plus tarp $700 bilion.

The U.S. has recovered its full $182.3 billion commitment under the rescue with a profit of about $12.4 billion and still holds about 22 percent of the insurer’s shares

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-11/aig-stock...

The TARP program originally authorized expenditures of $700 billion. The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act reduced the amount authorized to $475 billion. By October 11, 2012, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated that total disbursements would be $431 billion and estimated the total cost, including grants for mortgage programs that have not yet been made, would be $24 billion

TARP PAYBACK FUNDS

McCarthy Joins Colleagues Asking Administration to Clarify Contradictory TARP Repayment Plans

http://kevinmccarthy.house.gov/index.php?option=co...

note any returned funds were to pay down the deficit.Obama ,where are the funds?

Speaking of accounting gimmicks, don't be fooled by TARP conversations. There's a whole TARP spin about 700 billion dollars, and who got what of that, and who paid what back. It's NONSENSE. The Fed gave out 16 TRILLION in newly created fiat money. 700 billion is a sick joke. CITI got 2.5 TRILLION. Morgan got 2.05 TRILLION. 700 billion is a smokescreen conversation of what happened in Congress.

16 TRILLION. How's THAT for increasing the money supply and devaluing the currency?!

http://theintelhub.com/2012/09/02/audit-of-the-fed...

JustMC is wrong about the $16 trillion. I don't know where he's getting his information, but I'm guessing it's from some anti-Obama or anti-Fed conspiracy site.

There is not much to be learned by volleying similar opinions back and forth - it only tends to reinforce your beliefs, whether they are correct or not. And nothing gets play on Hubpages like conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve.

Poetvix,

"Ignorance is bliss"; yes. I felt as an adult and American it was my duty, obligation and responsibility to become educated on the happenings of our nation and to have a voice. Unfortunately, the more I know the more I wish I didn't. What's even worse is that it just creates a feeling of helplessness because we are just the little people and can't really even touch what is going on.

Thank you for the encouragement. It is hard when we feel so little in the greater scheme of things, but I fear that Americans have much forgotton how to stick together and fight for a great cause and are instead fighting each other over petty issues.

On the $16 trillion: I just read - skimmed, really, since it's 266 pages - the GAO report. This is not alarming stuff if you understand the accounting. Bernie Sanders was alarmed, but the GAO was not. The reason this didn't make the news is because it wasn't big news. We all knew the government was loaning banks lots of money. That was never a secret. I didn't come across the $16 trillion figure in my limited reading, but I'll give Bernie the benefit of the doubt. Mostly because it doesn't matter how much it was.

The bailout consisted primarily of loans and asset swaps, meaning the government (I include the Fed here) got back all or almost all of the dollars they laid out. Example - a bank holds $50 billion in MBSs that are risky. The government buys those MBSs for $50 billion, then collects the money (the mortgage payments, or the dividend). The bank is out of trouble, and the government continues to collect on the MBS investment until the instrument matures and they have recovered their money. Sometimes, the government forced the banks to repurchase the MBSs when they got back on their feet. But either way, the government got most or all of its dollars back. No net money creation.

The second way the government bailed out the banks - low-interest loans. Also paid back, with interest. No net money creation.

The government also bailed out some foreign banks that held American MBSs, probably because they are dollar-denominated securities, and we are the ones best able to provide dollars (plus, it was kind of our fault). As before, the government recovered their dollars. No net money creation.

The actual money paid out was in the form of fees, paid to some private banks for administrating bailout loans to smaller banks and other programs. Basically, the government outsourced a bit of work, which the Bush administration was very big on. The cost was pocket change.

Point is, the $16 trillion figure was not $16 trillion dollars paid out and not recovered. Although I certainly don't agree with everything that was done during the bailout, banks were in deep trouble, and some sort of action was necessary to keep our economy from imploding. And in the end, it really didn't cost the government much at all.

****

Same reasoning goes for the national debt. The debt is the total of govt. bonds outstanding, and those bonds were purchased with previously-created dollars. Bond purchase, in both directions, is just an asset swap. If China has $1 billion in U.S. dollars (earned from their large trade surplus with the U.S.), they exchange that $1 billion in dollars for $1 billion worth of bonds. Now, the government holds those dollars. China still has $1 billion worth of assets. The next week, China decides to cash in those bonds for dollars again - so they give the bonds back to the U.S. government, and the government gives them back their $1 billion in dollars (plus a few for interest). China still has $1 billion worth of assets. And no new money has been created. It is like moving money from your checking account to your savings account at the same bank - the bank is not suddenly "in debt" to you because your money is now in savings. And the government is not "in debt" to bondholders in any real sense, because they are still holding those dollars and are able to swap them back at any time.

JohnfrmCleveland

''because they are still holding those dollars and are able to swap them back at any time. The government spent the money in order to give the money back, the government must borrow more. The Fed is in on the hokus pokus, moving the money ( printed ) in a circle.

Social Security Revenues Have Been Used to Mask Deficits

Republicans have lied about this. Democrats have lied about this. Presidents have lied .

https://hubpages.com/politics/What-Social-Security...

The Obama Democrats passed a tax holiday on the SST payments, saved working families $2400. Well in order to make up the payments due the trust fund, the government had to borrow money to pay into the SST fund. Obama gave you another tax break????, only if you were working. Wake up America. Obama claims to have reduce spending$2.5 trillion, true or false. If that is true than why is the national debt and yearly deficits increasing. Some of the administration’s creative accounting?

SS taxes go into the same pile as your other (federal) tax dollars. Always have, always will. And SS payments are paid out of the same pile as all other federal expenditures.

Also - the government does not borrow dollars. They haven't had to borrow back dollars since we went off the gold standard. That move changed the game with the stroke of a pen. Back then, when bondholders could demand their payment in gold, it cost something. Now, it only costs them paper, and the government can create all of that they need. The only danger is inflation.

The cycle is not circular at all. Rather, money goes in a fairly straight line. The government creates dollars and spends them into the economy. From there, they are spent some number of times until they ultimately end up in the hands of somebody who just saves them (think China and Japan). Those countries exchange them for bonds, and that's where they sit, forever. Those dollars never get spent again (although they could), and they don't affect the economy when they don't get spent.

Once you understand what the national debt really is, you will realize that it's not our government doing anything wrong, it's just the way things work. We import more than we export, so dollars leave the country. But we have an unlimited supply of dollars, so as long as China wants to sell us radios, we'll continue to give them paper, and they will continue to not spend it - just like Japan did.

poetvix

Simply another side of the story.2/21/13

Stocks drop following Fed doubts about stimulus

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_22628016/st...

Fed appears to be closer to ending its support for the economy it’s not what the administration is saying?

HOKUS POKUS,when will the people know the truth?

Nice hubpage,nice layout with interesting facts

poetvix

''How would you get the nation out of debt?'''

The House and Senate have passed a budget.The President says that he will give Congress his budget on 4/10/13 (due on 2/5/13) The process to debate ,amend and vote on a budget may have a chance to go forward as required by the Constitution.President Obama’s Fiscal Cliff Plan “Balance” not true

http://www.speaker.gov/general/president-obama-s-f...

2/4/13

Boehner, GOP Pressure Obama to Balance Budget

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/02/boehn...

3/21/13

House and Senate budget proposals compare?

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/how-do-house-and-se...

Senate Democratic and House Republican budget proposals.

The President has already distorted the facts.

poetvix

May god bless our country in the coming months.The country needs good honest politicians from both sides to stand up, speak out and do what is best for the country.

"Funny, in a curious way, I recently read a document from 1963 of communist goals they wanted implemented in America. It was just a few days ago that I read it. Almost every one of them has come to pass."

Yes. The Communists said they would destroy the US from within. It wasn't hard for them to do when the people who are supposedly looking out for our best interests, are the ones selling us out to other nations. But that is what corruption does to a nation, and power corrupts...

Communists are not our enemies, though.

"A constant theme throughout the document was one of division among the people. It is exactly what has happened and exactly what you speak of."

The truth of the matter is, this tactic of divide and conquer is easy to pull off when people don't know what the truth is. If you can control education, you control "facts". If you control mass media entities, you can help shape people's thought. If you control the printing of money, you can control the nation which uses that money.

"I'm not sure how to go about fixing it but I know it will be without the help of our government who is benefiting from it greatly. God bless you."

Government is nothing but our vain attempts and quelling evil, when people began to be impatient with God (1st Samuel chapter 8!), who allows evil to thrive in the hopes of being able to forgive them and save them. Only Jesus Christ can fix this problem, and it begins when people admit that we have a collective problem.

What war wasn't started by humans? All our attempts at fixing things, has resulted in humankind's greatest achievement: Bigger and better weapons. That's all we're good at, killing each other. Sad, isn't it?

Would you think it is a coincidence that the same people taking us down this path, also want God removed from public schools and such? It is very related to the situation at hand.

God bless you, too.

I would offer that the problem with our schools is not that God is beng pushed out. The problem is that the schools are being pushed onto the the people. The problem is that no one has any choice as to whether he PAYS for what takes place in the schools. THIS is the fundamental issue at its core. (Andit goes way beyond the schools to almost everything government does.)

If the public schools lived in a truly free market, they would PLEASE WILLING CUSTOMERS or cease to exist, replaced by something that did.

The education myth is a huge problem in this country. Not only do the schools fail to teach what they nominally intend (at truly ruinous cost) but they actually PREVENT useful education. This country was great when education was very diverse and organically focused on the skills which were PRODUCTIVE in the market. When this country was predominantly populated by producers, the young apprenticed into all manner of skilled work. SOME classroom learning made sense, but nothing even close to 13 years of full-time nonsense.

Now we extend that insanity to college. None of this would exist in a free market because it doesn't have VALUE. In a free market, perhaps one quarter to one 20th of our current college population would actually attend college. And what took place in college would be VERY different.

Ceegen

''Yes. The Communists said they would destroy the US from within '' Wake up America

WHOIS WHO in Gov http://commieblaster.com/progressives/index.html?v... … SHARED AGENDAS -BARACK OBAMA http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewsubcategory...

6/8/12 OBAMA BANNED THIS VIDEO

GEE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CsrTMZAhA

History is in the making where is the media?

May God help us!