How To Fix the Debt Crisis in America - A List of Top Ten Suggestions to Solve the American National Debt.
How would you get the nation out of debt?
I asked this question on Hub pages. Then, I had more thoughts to add. But since I had already responded once, I was not allowed to do so, therefore, welcome to this hub.
When I first wrote this, Debt Tracker listed the US debt as 14.3 trillion dollars.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that is TRILLION. In case you are wondering, that’s 12 zeros. I can’t imagine that kind of money. It boggles the brain. And to think, my nation, my beloved America owes this much money.
It gets so much worse. Today is 6-7-13, roughly two years after I originally wrote this article. Today, the US national debt stands at a whopping 16 trillion plus.
Better yet, check out this link just below. It shows a breakdown of how much we each owe, individually.
Do you have 46 thousand dollars in the couch cushions? Of course, that number from 2011 is over 51 thousand for each of us now, depending on whose numbers you trust. Some estimates run as high as 200 thousand per person with hidden fees, interest and all the warm fuzzies bean counters like to spring when in the employ of banks and government.
I, for one, would very much like to know exactly what I got for that insane amount.
- U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
US National Debt Clock : Real Time U.S. National Debt Clock. I have owned Christmas trees that did not light up like this thing!
Do you have that much money? Can you imagine how much it will be with daily interest being tacked on by the time you get it? Good Lord! We have to fix this mess, folks. Now!
Chartiy begins at home.
1.) We send out millions, if not billions, of dollars in aid to other countries every year. While I’m all in favor of charity, it begins at home. If we can’t pay our own bills, should we really be sending money away?
Wiki Answers estimates this amount to be a paltry 25 billion a year and points out the fact that said sum is equal to less than .02% of the … whatever marker they want to use. The point is 25 billion is 25 billion. A penny saved is a penny earned.
Check It For Yourself.
This Could Be US In the Morning
There are too many on entitlement rolls.
2.) This one is not going to make me popular, but I’m saying it anyway. We have to revamp Medicare/Medicaid and Disability. These systems are abused on epic scales. I have seen, more times than I can count, students on Medicare/Medicaid, go to the emergency room to get a doctor’s excuse for missing school! I know it sounds crazy, but trust me I have seen it. Kids that are court ordered to be in school, and further, they will look you in the face and tell you they weren't sick but they don’t want to have to deal with their probation officer. I know people who legitimately collect disability benefits and I am all for them having it. Sadly, I know of others who collect it but seem to get around just fine in every way possible except a vocational one.
Depending on whose numbers you buy, estimations range from 30 to 60 billion dollars a year.
Check It For Yourself.
- Medicare Fraud: A $60 Billion Crime - CBS News
60 Minutes on CBS News: Medicare Fraud: A $60 Billion Crime - A.G. Holder Tells 60 Minutes More Oversight Is Needed; Scammer Explains How Easy It Is To Steal Millions
Somehow, I doubt the number has gone down since then.
What do you think?
Here’s a good one.
I think this video shows clearly and undeniably abuse has run
rampant.
You will love this. --->
More abuse of safety nets bleeding us dry.
3.) We are paying out untold billions of dollars to educate, medicate and generally better millions of people who are not legal citizens of this country. It has to end. It’s a lofty goal and I wish we could help anyone and everyone, but right now we can’t afford to help our own. We must be practical. Legal immigration helped build this country and made it strong. I support that one hundred percent. But this illegal inundation we are seeing, in my mind, is really close to an act of invasion.
I find it more than a little ironic that U.S. government lists the health care alone, in just California, just one state mind you, as costing over 10.5 billion per year.
Check It For Yourself.
- Study: Illegal immigrants cost Texas, hospitals $677 million | Front page | Chron.com - Houston Chro
Texas being bled dry. - Illegal Immigration Costs California $10.5 Billion Annually
And we wonder why they are bankrupt?
Border Crisis breaks the bank!
UPDATE - Let's fast forward to today, 7-23-14. Remember, I wrote this article a few years ago. Now, thanks to President Obama, America shutters as hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens are camped on our military bases. The President has border patrol agents and soldiers taking care of illegal children.
Medical workers in border states are terrified. They are warning the public as they can but have been threatened by DHS for even mentioning disease in relation to the invasion of illegal aliens. The President is currently spouting he wants to spend 4.7 billion dollars of money we don't have to deal with the illegals he called to this country against our laws, wishes and best interest.
Bailout means throw away!
4.) NO MORE BAILOUTS! We can never again waste money like this and further we must get it back. If the banks were really hurting so bad, they would not have given out huge bonuses. If a car manufacturer is failing, said manufacturer will have to sink or swim without aid of taxpayer dollars. It’s called capitalism and it served us well for 200 plus years.
Check It For Yourself.
- Fannie Mae asks for another $5.1 billion in bailout cash Hot Air
Can you believe?Fannie Mae asks for another $5.1 billion in bailout cash.
Overpayment!
5.) We should not be paying our elected officials as much as we do. They can all take a pay cut. Further, I am constantly hearing about this or that presidential vacation, or how the first lady took the kids off to who the heck really cares. What I do care about, what we should all care about, is that we are paying for it. How many of you get more than a week or two paid vacation per year? When you go on vacation, does your employer foot the bill? Why should we? We are paying not only for the expense of transporting but for secret service, lodging, meals, everything! It’s insane.
They also get the best benefit/retirement package in the entire country at our expense. This too must end, now.
Check It For Yourself.
Are you aware that as of 2012 the First family spent more on vacations than the British Royal Family?
- POTUS - America's Deadliest PC Acronym - A Tool of Social Programming
A critical analysis of how the term POTUS, used in everyday politically correct language, is negatively influencing America, changing the national mindset, and programming the youth of our nation. Comparisons to royalty. - How Much Did Obamas Family Vacation Cost Taxpayers? | TheBlaze.com
Over $1.4 million. That's the generous estimate of how much the Obama family vacation cost taxpayers this Christmas. $1,474,200 to be exact. The Hawaii Reporter compiled an estimated account of expenses for the Obama trip and found that, before facto - Michelle Obama Spent 42 Days on Vacation this Past Year | The Blog on Obama: White House Dossier
First Lady Michelle Obama over the last year has spent a total of 42 days on vacation, or a little more than one out of every nine days, according to a White House Dossier analysis of her travel. Her vacations,
- 2012 US Budget: $3.7 Trillion | The Big Picture
Interactive graphic from the NYT showing how the 2012 is allocated: > click for interactive graphic. - US Budget Breakdown for FY12 - Charts
Spending breakdown by function for latest federal budget. Data from OMB and Census Bureau. View charts; drill down. Thats right guys and gals, its their own figures!
Hello, it's called open records.
6.) There must be more transparency in government spending. There are entirely too many “other” categories and ambiguous groupings. Proposed spending for the fiscal year 2012 in the “other spending” category is over 141 billion dollars. That’s other? Really? Seriously folks, if my budget were $141.00 over I would want to know where the heck it went and pronto! Federal spending is estimated to be more than three times income. Come on! Who makes a budget like that? I know children who can budget better.
Check It For Yourself.
The jobs of political office should not be for sale.
7.) We have to revamp the entire election process and more importantly the campaign process. Only the rich really even have a shot at winning. A major reason why only the rich can realistically run is because only they can afford airtime. You might be thinking, well, Vix, anyone can fund raise and get the money. This is true but why is the question. What good does that money do other than to buy overpriced TV time? Why not allot a specific amount of air time to each candidate and that’s it?
While we are on the subject of money dictating the way of things that should be outside its realm of influence, let us look at special interest lobby groups shall we.
Take money out of the equation.
8.) Outlaw special interest and lobby group contributions, party throwing, taking out to dinners, general good old boy networking cash into the pockets of politicians and any and/or all influences said groups have through direct monetary means. OpenSecrets.org states that last year upwards of 3.5 billion dollars was spent by lobbyist. Why should those who throw cash at our elected officials be heard over those who do not? Do you really think that kind of money is not influencing those it is being shaken in front of?
Should policy really be for sale?
Check It For Yourself.
- Lobbying Database | OpenSecrets
Do you really want to know? You need to.
It takes freedom to be America!
9.) We must stand up and stop allowing our government to take away our freedoms. More so, we must start taking back those already lost! Lack of freedom costs our economy dollars. There are millions of examples but let’s just go over a few shall we.
Do you remember, not so long ago, if you lived in the country perhaps your mother would send you to the neighbors to buy fresh milk, or eggs? It was pretty common for families to sell excess produce, butter, jams, candied fruits and so on. Look what happens now. Not only did this lady revitalize a piece of urban blight, but she also helped families to have access to fresh, affordable produce and look what the government did.
Check It For Yourself
- Oakland gardener questions need for permit to sell produce
- Julie Bass of Oak Park Faces Misdemeanor Charge for Vegetable Garden - YouTube
This poor woman could be facing a fine or jail time for growing a garden on her own property.
We have all heard of the soda tax, elevated sin taxes, taxes for this and taxes for that. Said taxes are supposedly on things the government deems as bad for us. Perhaps they are. So what? As a legal, grown, citizen it used to be my right to chose to buy whatever I wished. Now, choice is restricted thereby restricting who gets my dollars. All the industries supplying the things that now cost more due to the government’s sin taxes suffer, which means their workers suffer, which makes the economy further suffer when they are laid off and have no money to spend. It is a never ending downward cycle.
More so, today it’s things they say are not good for us. How far off do you think the tomorrow in which they just don’t want us to have it is? Can you not foresee an elevated tax on things such as, oh, perhaps shall we say, movies, books and articles that criticize the government? What about things that might be construed as questionable such as the Bible, or just about any religious text you can think of other than one approved by the government picked religion of the day?
Put government's big, fat behind on a diet!
10.) Reduce the size of the government itself. If we were to consider the relationship between the growth of government in this country and its debt rise, I have zero doubt we would find a positive correlation.
Check It For Yourself.
- Largest-ever federal payroll to hit 2.15 million - Washington Times
The era of big government has returned with a vengeance, in the form of the largest federal work force in modern history.
Ladies and gentlemen, fellow Americans and fellow hubbers, we are in, as they say, deep sh#t. Everyone keeps talking about how can we leave this kind of debt for our children, and that’s a valid point. Consider this… It won’t take that long to catch up. This has always been presented to the masses as a this is a coming in the future type of problem. Well, guys and gals, the future just became the present and it’s rather smelly.
© Vix a.k.a. Rhonda Enrayne 8-7-11
Considering all the money we send them, some free oil would be a fair exchange!
Capsule addition 1-16-12
I wrote this hub back in August. Since then things have gotten so much worse. The President now wants to raise the debt ceiling to 21 trillion dollars. At the same time he wants to do that, he wants to slash the military budget by 1 trillion dollars, lay off 80 thousand soldiers, and cut benefits for their retirement, health care and the GI bill. I’m all about cutting spending, but this is crazy! His raise of the debt ceiling will weaken us even more economically, while the defense cuts will make us vulnerable as we have never been before.
Here are a few additions...
Additions on how to fix the debt crisis, how to keep America strong, and how to keep her free!
Too accurate!
1.) Amendment to the legislation process.
Our government is constantly passing legislation. This sounds good until you read it, if you can read through the legal jargon and literally hundreds of pages of exceptions and loopholes.
I propose passing a new piece of legislation that reads as follows…
All laws passed from this day forth shall be limited to no more than one page of print. It will be written in plain, simple language that everyone can understand. It will address only one thing at a time. Said proposed legislation shall be made available to all citizens, at no cost, with phone numbers and email addresses to all parties that will be voting on it via the Internet.
This is needed more than you may realize. Most legislation passed now has tons of “riders” in it sneaking in that which has nothing to do with the proposed law it supposedly is speaking about. Much “pork” gets in this way. It must stop!
2.) Abolish the Federal Reserve
Many have mentioned in comments that we must abolish the Federal Reserve. I could not agree more. They have way too much power and currently have us by the proverbial stones. I heard a rumor, many times actually, that JFK proposed doing the exact same thing. We all know what happened to him and not too much later.
Think about this for a moment. When it comes to money, the government is not in control. The Fed has close to total control. The Fed is not part of the government nor is it under government restraint, regulation or influence, yet it can with the push of a button, the lowering or raising of a tenth of a percent, with the slash of a pen, send the entire economy in any direction it desires. Sure, the government can and does blow trillions. They are increasingly bleeding us dry. But, the fed can in the blink of an eye raise interest rates on them and then, BOOM! What do you think the interest rate could hit? Anything they want for the most part. It's nothing for someone with good credit to hit hard times. Miss a payment or two and they go from a less than ten percent interest rate to one well over 20. Think the economy is bad now? Today's economy would look like a blissful dream compared to what that nightmare would be like.
America is OUR home. Let's see a guard posted.
3.) Make a citizens watchdog group on the hill.
A citizen’s regulatory commission should be on the hill complete with the following…
Common people from each state, with no conflict of interest, that have never worked for a bank, super large corporation or the government, to act as a watchdog of the people. Said commission should have the authority to prosecute any elected official or appointee thereof who they deem is acting outside the best interest of the people. If the folks squandering our money were held more accountable, the waste would end.
Thank you.
Thank you, dear hubbers for your time, your reading, and for your support of America regardless of which party you may or may not agree with.
With the greatest admiration,
Vix
End capsule addition
Hubbers Should Be In Charge
If you read a fraction of the comments below, you will find some really well informed, creative, practical ideas for helping to end the current crisis. I can't urge you strongly enough to check out what they have to say.
Capsule added on 8-20-11
Hubtastic Hubs
- Future of America - Political & Economic
What will America look like in the future and how should you prepare for it. - The Rich are not Paying their Fair Share of Taxes right?
By Mr. Mike NV
Hubbers In the Know
- President Obama and Members of the 112th Congress Credit Rating
By Mr. Jon EWall - THE SPEECH OBAMA WILL NEVER MAKE
By Mr. Wayne Brown - Representation Without Taxation
By The Frog Prince - The Future of the US Dollar - Benefactors and Consequences of Collapse
By Mr. Billy Austin Dillion
Is It Even Possible?
Do you think the debt can be paid?
- To Whom It May Concern ~ A poem, a letter to a corrupt government, a call to justice for our nation.
To: Our so called leaders. All the politicians, the corporate moguls, the bankers, the lawyers, the super rich, the movers, the shakers, and the power players. CC: All of us. The people...
I challenge all of my fellow American hubbers, the vast majority of whom are better prepared to face such a topic than I, to hub your thoughts on this most pressing matter before our nation.
What is a challenge without a prize? Hm, I had not thought of that. What to offer for such effort?
The official winner of the Poetvix’s Raving Rant - Ways to End the Deficit Challenge will receive the honorary, assigned by Vix, means absolutely nothing, and will most likely be misspelled, award to proudly, or not so really, display on your own hubs at your leisure, or not.
Your efforts are worth so much more, but sadly... Welcome to America in 2011.
Assuming it is possible...
What do you think would bring it about out of our duly elected officials?
Many here on Hubpages are mindful of this and related topics.
Capsule added 8-27-11
I have to wonder if we, the people, are even capable of getting together long enough to attempt to bring honor back to our government. If you read the comments below, you will see how we agree on some points and differ on others. Sadly, you will also see that since this is such a passionate subject, sometimes we let temper take the wheel. It won't help. Fighting amongst ourselves won't help. It's what they want. It allows this kind of thing to continue. We have to come together. We have to drop our petty sensitivities be they well earned or not. We have to comprimise and listen and think and cross check facts and examine things until our heads hurt. If we can't start to work together, what hope do we have?
Capsule added 9-1-11
Freedom of speech in my mind is a God given right. As with any other right, it comes with responsibilities and limits. All comments prior to this date will remain as they are, unless the Hub powers tell me I have to delete them or they will pull this.
Comments from any side or somewhere in between, even way off in left field are all welcome. With that said, I think we need a few ground rules for here on out. Any comment that is hateful and/or maliciously directed towards another specific Hubber will be blocked.
Play nice or go away. That doesn’t mean be politically correct for I despise the very notion. It simply means be respectful. Think of it this way, each of us have our on-line house. Just as in our real houses, when people visit we expect them to behave with a certain amount of basic civility. Just as in our real homes, if someone “acts a fool and shows his behind”, he/she will be asked to leave and not return in future.
I find such things a sad indicator of the state of our ability to unite.
Comments disclaimer:
Comments found below represent only the views of the person submitting each at the time, or the original author of said comment, however you wish to term it. PLEASE be responsible in your comments.
Related
7 Tips to Fix Your Finances
What is the Difference Between the U.S. National Debt and the Deficit?
The Federal Debt and National Morale
What Is Included In the U.S. National Debt? Who Does the U.S. Owe All That Money To?
In Answer to Opinion Duck about TARP and the Stimulus, the Debt, and the Deficit (updated 3-5-2011)
Comments
That is some inspirational stuff. Never knew that thoughts might be this varied. Many thanks for all of the enthusiasm to offer xboter 2014
Ceegen
''Yes. The Communists said they would destroy the US from within '' Wake up America
WHOIS WHO in Gov http://commieblaster.com/progressives/index.html?v... … SHARED AGENDAS -BARACK OBAMA http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewsubcategory...
6/8/12 OBAMA BANNED THIS VIDEO
GEE, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CsrTMZAhA
History is in the making where is the media?
May God help us!
- AUTHOR
JustMC~ Thank you for taking the time to leave such a thought provoking comment.
Personally, I think education should be turned over to the states. Nothing has done more to damage education in America than the federal department of education and the language and composition of IDEA. The updated version is worse than the original.
"...willing customers" that is so much of the problem. We have a ton of older teens who are court ordered to be in school. They don't want to be and you can't force a 16 year old to try if they don't want to. Were it up to me, and I realize this won't be popular, but, if a teen doesn't want to be in school, get out. A year working in the read world will quickly teach one to value a free and appropriate public education. I would like to see the option of work apprentice programs for these students. Education is a wonderful thing, but it has to be desired.
While I still think God being pushed out is a large part of why schools are in so much trouble, it's not the only reason. Another huge part of the problem is money in relation to text books and curriculum. Some of the current history texts are nothing more than tools of social programming! It's shameful and it's all about money.
Thanks for the visit and the great comment. God bless and happy hubbing!
I would offer that the problem with our schools is not that God is beng pushed out. The problem is that the schools are being pushed onto the the people. The problem is that no one has any choice as to whether he PAYS for what takes place in the schools. THIS is the fundamental issue at its core. (Andit goes way beyond the schools to almost everything government does.)
If the public schools lived in a truly free market, they would PLEASE WILLING CUSTOMERS or cease to exist, replaced by something that did.
The education myth is a huge problem in this country. Not only do the schools fail to teach what they nominally intend (at truly ruinous cost) but they actually PREVENT useful education. This country was great when education was very diverse and organically focused on the skills which were PRODUCTIVE in the market. When this country was predominantly populated by producers, the young apprenticed into all manner of skilled work. SOME classroom learning made sense, but nothing even close to 13 years of full-time nonsense.
Now we extend that insanity to college. None of this would exist in a free market because it doesn't have VALUE. In a free market, perhaps one quarter to one 20th of our current college population would actually attend college. And what took place in college would be VERY different.
- AUTHOR
Ceegen ~ Thank you for taking the time to leave such a great comment. You're right. This is way beyond man's abilities at this point to fix. God is required.
It strikes me as tragically ironic that those who are working so hard to throw God out of our schools, our holidays, our government, our thoughts, will be the first ones calling his name when things get really bad. Faith in God and Christian principles built this nation. I'll never understand how anyone can believe we can do anything but fail without him.
Thanks again. God bless and happiest of hubbing for you always.
"Funny, in a curious way, I recently read a document from 1963 of communist goals they wanted implemented in America. It was just a few days ago that I read it. Almost every one of them has come to pass."
Yes. The Communists said they would destroy the US from within. It wasn't hard for them to do when the people who are supposedly looking out for our best interests, are the ones selling us out to other nations. But that is what corruption does to a nation, and power corrupts...
Communists are not our enemies, though.
"A constant theme throughout the document was one of division among the people. It is exactly what has happened and exactly what you speak of."
The truth of the matter is, this tactic of divide and conquer is easy to pull off when people don't know what the truth is. If you can control education, you control "facts". If you control mass media entities, you can help shape people's thought. If you control the printing of money, you can control the nation which uses that money.
"I'm not sure how to go about fixing it but I know it will be without the help of our government who is benefiting from it greatly. God bless you."
Government is nothing but our vain attempts and quelling evil, when people began to be impatient with God (1st Samuel chapter 8!), who allows evil to thrive in the hopes of being able to forgive them and save them. Only Jesus Christ can fix this problem, and it begins when people admit that we have a collective problem.
What war wasn't started by humans? All our attempts at fixing things, has resulted in humankind's greatest achievement: Bigger and better weapons. That's all we're good at, killing each other. Sad, isn't it?
Would you think it is a coincidence that the same people taking us down this path, also want God removed from public schools and such? It is very related to the situation at hand.
God bless you, too.
- AUTHOR
Jon ~ From your mouth to God's ears. I agree, but I'm not about to hold my breath. Further, I can't trust a one of them.
poetvix
May god bless our country in the coming months.The country needs good honest politicians from both sides to stand up, speak out and do what is best for the country.
- AUTHOR
Jon - Let me begin by saying how good it is to see you. i have to be honest. I have always wanted a balanced budget. He never would produce one so he could not be held to it. I don't know that he will now. I do know everything he says is loaded. I'm telling you I think the man took lessons in deception from the Devil himself. I very much appreciate the links and look forward to checking them out. Have a great week, Jon and God bless you.
poetvix
''How would you get the nation out of debt?'''
The House and Senate have passed a budget.The President says that he will give Congress his budget on 4/10/13 (due on 2/5/13) The process to debate ,amend and vote on a budget may have a chance to go forward as required by the Constitution.President Obama’s Fiscal Cliff Plan “Balance” not true
http://www.speaker.gov/general/president-obama-s-f...
2/4/13
Boehner, GOP Pressure Obama to Balance Budget
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/02/boehn...
3/21/13
House and Senate budget proposals compare?
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/how-do-house-and-se...
Senate Democratic and House Republican budget proposals.
The President has already distorted the facts.
- AUTHOR
herbacoachtommy ~ Thank you. I'm glad you found something interesting. God bless and happy hubbing
Nice hubpage,nice layout with interesting facts
- AUTHOR
Jon ~ That is the question. I'm hoping before it's too late. Our economy teeters on a precipice yet the sheeple merrily carry on.
poetvix
Simply another side of the story.2/21/13
Stocks drop following Fed doubts about stimulus
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_22628016/st...
Fed appears to be closer to ending its support for the economy it’s not what the administration is saying?
HOKUS POKUS,when will the people know the truth?
- AUTHOR
JohnfrmCleveland - Well, I have to say, I think you really hit on something in that last comment. Yes, Sir. The bad can be traced back to us going off the gold standard.... Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone, but didn't I hear something about that being right around the same time our loving government allowed the inception of the Fed?
Regardless, You state above, and in other comments, "Once you understand the nature of what debt really is, you will realize that it's not our government doing anything wrong. It's just the way things work."
The government is to be for the people, by the people. The people do not want it! The dangerous notion that is flooding our collective conscious to the detriment of us all is exactly that. It is a defeatist attitude of "it's just the way things work." It is not. It is what they want us to believe because in the minds of the populace it takes away power from the common man and places it in the hands of government.
I do agree, however, 100%, with your assessment that we must export at least as much as we import.
We used to and when we did America was much stronger.
God bless and happy hubbing.
- AUTHOR
Jon ~ Thank you! I'm so glad you mentioned creative accounting. Remember before the first of the year when everyone in the Left camp was chanting the new taxes will only be on the rich. Low and behold the first paychecks of January saw people crying at the ATM machines. Estimates report, (KTRH) that the average, working, American family just saw their income go down by $100.00 a month as a direct result of the taxation policies of this administration. Let me put that in more easily understood terms for everyone...There are children right here in small town USA who are now doing without food as a result! Both parents are working like slaves yet the government is sucking up the money that they were using to feed their children after telling us all it would only affect the rich! LIES, LIES, LIES.
God bless you Jon. I look forward to your next update with great anticipation.
- AUTHOR
JohnfrmCleveland ~ I do admire your persistence. I would like to point out a few things, however. First, you begin by saying you would not read but rather would only scan. Much is missed in the scanning process. Second, you state repeatedly that the money was repaid. No, it was not. Not all of it. Let's just talk American banks for a moment. Some of them have paid the money back...Or, much more accurately stated, we the consumers paid it back for them in the form of higher fees, charges and more hidden fees tacked onto our money immediately following the bailout. Thirdly, you keep going on about bonds and the fact that our government just prints paper, other countries buy our bonds but just sit on them. People have sat on bonds and such for centuries. Eventually, they do go to cash them out, or their descendants do. That's the problem. That's why so many of us are concerned. We all know...THE BILL COMES DUE AT SOME POINT. This is common sense reality. In the case of such a large amount, considering how the global economies are mostly spiral-ling down, it is naive in the extreme to think it won't lead to some nasty wars.
God bless and happy hubbing.
SS taxes go into the same pile as your other (federal) tax dollars. Always have, always will. And SS payments are paid out of the same pile as all other federal expenditures.
Also - the government does not borrow dollars. They haven't had to borrow back dollars since we went off the gold standard. That move changed the game with the stroke of a pen. Back then, when bondholders could demand their payment in gold, it cost something. Now, it only costs them paper, and the government can create all of that they need. The only danger is inflation.
The cycle is not circular at all. Rather, money goes in a fairly straight line. The government creates dollars and spends them into the economy. From there, they are spent some number of times until they ultimately end up in the hands of somebody who just saves them (think China and Japan). Those countries exchange them for bonds, and that's where they sit, forever. Those dollars never get spent again (although they could), and they don't affect the economy when they don't get spent.
Once you understand what the national debt really is, you will realize that it's not our government doing anything wrong, it's just the way things work. We import more than we export, so dollars leave the country. But we have an unlimited supply of dollars, so as long as China wants to sell us radios, we'll continue to give them paper, and they will continue to not spend it - just like Japan did.
JohnfrmCleveland
''because they are still holding those dollars and are able to swap them back at any time. The government spent the money in order to give the money back, the government must borrow more. The Fed is in on the hokus pokus, moving the money ( printed ) in a circle.
Social Security Revenues Have Been Used to Mask Deficits
Republicans have lied about this. Democrats have lied about this. Presidents have lied .
https://hubpages.com/politics/What-Social-Security...
The Obama Democrats passed a tax holiday on the SST payments, saved working families $2400. Well in order to make up the payments due the trust fund, the government had to borrow money to pay into the SST fund. Obama gave you another tax break????, only if you were working. Wake up America. Obama claims to have reduce spending$2.5 trillion, true or false. If that is true than why is the national debt and yearly deficits increasing. Some of the administration’s creative accounting?
On the $16 trillion: I just read - skimmed, really, since it's 266 pages - the GAO report. This is not alarming stuff if you understand the accounting. Bernie Sanders was alarmed, but the GAO was not. The reason this didn't make the news is because it wasn't big news. We all knew the government was loaning banks lots of money. That was never a secret. I didn't come across the $16 trillion figure in my limited reading, but I'll give Bernie the benefit of the doubt. Mostly because it doesn't matter how much it was.
The bailout consisted primarily of loans and asset swaps, meaning the government (I include the Fed here) got back all or almost all of the dollars they laid out. Example - a bank holds $50 billion in MBSs that are risky. The government buys those MBSs for $50 billion, then collects the money (the mortgage payments, or the dividend). The bank is out of trouble, and the government continues to collect on the MBS investment until the instrument matures and they have recovered their money. Sometimes, the government forced the banks to repurchase the MBSs when they got back on their feet. But either way, the government got most or all of its dollars back. No net money creation.
The second way the government bailed out the banks - low-interest loans. Also paid back, with interest. No net money creation.
The government also bailed out some foreign banks that held American MBSs, probably because they are dollar-denominated securities, and we are the ones best able to provide dollars (plus, it was kind of our fault). As before, the government recovered their dollars. No net money creation.
The actual money paid out was in the form of fees, paid to some private banks for administrating bailout loans to smaller banks and other programs. Basically, the government outsourced a bit of work, which the Bush administration was very big on. The cost was pocket change.
Point is, the $16 trillion figure was not $16 trillion dollars paid out and not recovered. Although I certainly don't agree with everything that was done during the bailout, banks were in deep trouble, and some sort of action was necessary to keep our economy from imploding. And in the end, it really didn't cost the government much at all.
****
Same reasoning goes for the national debt. The debt is the total of govt. bonds outstanding, and those bonds were purchased with previously-created dollars. Bond purchase, in both directions, is just an asset swap. If China has $1 billion in U.S. dollars (earned from their large trade surplus with the U.S.), they exchange that $1 billion in dollars for $1 billion worth of bonds. Now, the government holds those dollars. China still has $1 billion worth of assets. The next week, China decides to cash in those bonds for dollars again - so they give the bonds back to the U.S. government, and the government gives them back their $1 billion in dollars (plus a few for interest). China still has $1 billion worth of assets. And no new money has been created. It is like moving money from your checking account to your savings account at the same bank - the bank is not suddenly "in debt" to you because your money is now in savings. And the government is not "in debt" to bondholders in any real sense, because they are still holding those dollars and are able to swap them back at any time.
- AUTHOR
Cantuhearmescream ~ I hate to admit it, but I think you are right. Yet, I still have hope. One thing about Americans throughout history is that we can be stubborn, unpredictable, and we have come together before. We can do it again. I hate to think what kind of catalyst it would take, but if history has taught us anything, perhaps, it is that said catalyst is coming. God bless!
Thank you for the encouragement. It is hard when we feel so little in the greater scheme of things, but I fear that Americans have much forgotton how to stick together and fight for a great cause and are instead fighting each other over petty issues.
- AUTHOR
Cantuhearmescream ~ In some ways I feel like I'm replying to myself. I did and felt the same. I still feel that way. It's an illusion they promote. It's useful in that if we all feel helpless we are much less likely to speak up in first place. Through the history of our nation whenever enough of us stood up together it has instigated change. It can and will again. They know that! That is why this administration has waged all out warfare on unity. As long as they can keep we the people divided and fighting over minutia our leaders can and do get away with whatever they want. We have the power though it surely doesn't feel that way. Don't give up. America needs you. On a personal note, thank you. While I hate you feel this way, it's nice to know I'm not alone.
Poetvix,
"Ignorance is bliss"; yes. I felt as an adult and American it was my duty, obligation and responsibility to become educated on the happenings of our nation and to have a voice. Unfortunately, the more I know the more I wish I didn't. What's even worse is that it just creates a feeling of helplessness because we are just the little people and can't really even touch what is going on.
- AUTHOR
JohnfrmCleveland - Thank you for returning. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but JustMC's figures are correct. In fact the second hub I wrote on this same subject uses the same figure from multiple sources. Just look at the audit of the Fed. It clearly states 16 trillion. That's not a radical, right source.
Further, and it's a pet peeve of mine, I take objection to the term "conspiracy theory." It's not a conspiracy when an internal audit shows 16 trillion missing dollars. It's not a conspiracy when the language states they are "outside the scope." The Fed is real. What they are doing to our economy is real.
God bless and happy hubbing.
JustMC is wrong about the $16 trillion. I don't know where he's getting his information, but I'm guessing it's from some anti-Obama or anti-Fed conspiracy site.
There is not much to be learned by volleying similar opinions back and forth - it only tends to reinforce your beliefs, whether they are correct or not. And nothing gets play on Hubpages like conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve.
- AUTHOR
JustMC ~ Funny, maybe I'm wrong but wasn't 16 trillion the exact same amount of the debt at the time? Hm. Perhaps it's my cynical side showing, but I find it ironic that the exact amount supposedly owed ultimately by the American taxpayer is the exact same amount that made its way into the pockets of those receiving said funds... And now we get to foot the bill. Oh, my. Please excuse me, my sarcasm is showing. That's what too much coffee and no sleep does to a girl! God bless and hub on.
- AUTHOR
Jon ~ Love that closing question!
- AUTHOR
Cantuhearmescream ~ I felt a lot safer under Clinton too. At that time, I still believed what I heard on the news. I was not a Bush fan either. Frankly, Obama scares me more than any other President in the history of our nation. They say ignorance is bliss. It's true. I have done too much research and learned too much not to be terrified of the very real threat this administration poses to the founding principles of freedom, independence, and liberty necessary for the survival of a free people.
You state "You kind of have to put your faith in whoever is running your country, though I feel like we are in a rut and I don't know that he has the ability to get us out." I think you just effectively put into words the feelings of so many. I know it may feel that way because our problems are huge and individually we feel we have no power. It is a falsehood. You do not have to have faith in them, any of them. Personally, I'm only putting my faith in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit these days.
We are in a rut. You hit that nail on the head. And it's a rut both sides dug. I think recent history proves we can't leave it up to them to fix. We can't place our faith in them for when have they upheld the public faith over time? It's time for us to step up, loud and long.
Lastly, you mention not knowing "if he has the ability..." I respectfully posit the following; Do his actions indicate he has the desire?
Just some thoughts. God bless and happy hubbing.
- AUTHOR
JustMC ~ I'm glad you came back and addressed this. Cantuhearmescream says in the comment below that you probably know politics better than they do. I know for a fact you know it better than I do. You're right about the problem staring long before Bush. I think we can easily trace it back to the Public Works Program and possibly further. In my mind, that particular route to dealing with the financial backlash of the Great Depression set in motion a dangerous thought track in our nation of the government stimulating job creation in the first place, the government "owing" people jobs and people being willing to consider giving over more power to the government. I wonder if those who thought it was a good idea at the time would agree now in the hindsight of a historical lens though I can certainly understand why it made sense at the time.
One of the dangers inherent in the government owning the capitol of production under any circumstances, even those pitched as needed to stimulate growth, is that it furthers their control over the populace. While it may not seem directly correlated to the rise in our national debt, it is. Further, I contend it is equally important.
As our debt has risen our freedoms, Constitutionally guaranteed liberties, have been lost. Those two factors working simultaneously, if not stopped, to my way of thinking will in time ultimately destroy the principles of freedom our nation was built upon.
Just some thoughts. God bless and happiest of hubbing.
- AUTHOR
Cantuhearmescream ~ Thank you for taking the time to read and comment. When Clinton was in office, I thought him to be responsible for us finally having a surplus too. It turns out however, that surplus was achieved through Clinton's working with the republican congress of the time. Both sides have abused their powers over the years. Personally, I think we have to stop looking at who says they are on which side and start demanding they all be on our side. God bless and happy hubbing!
Speaking of accounting gimmicks, don't be fooled by TARP conversations. There's a whole TARP spin about 700 billion dollars, and who got what of that, and who paid what back. It's NONSENSE. The Fed gave out 16 TRILLION in newly created fiat money. 700 billion is a sick joke. CITI got 2.5 TRILLION. Morgan got 2.05 TRILLION. 700 billion is a smokescreen conversation of what happened in Congress.
16 TRILLION. How's THAT for increasing the money supply and devaluing the currency?!
Cantuhearmescream
''When Clinton left office we had a surplus in the billions, after Bush left office we had a deficit in the trillions,'' REALLY
Obama’s Deficit Dodge
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/09/obamas-deficit-do...
Bush's deficit was $600 billion plus tarp $700 bilion.
The U.S. has recovered its full $182.3 billion commitment under the rescue with a profit of about $12.4 billion and still holds about 22 percent of the insurer’s shares
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-11/aig-stock...
The TARP program originally authorized expenditures of $700 billion. The Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act reduced the amount authorized to $475 billion. By October 11, 2012, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) stated that total disbursements would be $431 billion and estimated the total cost, including grants for mortgage programs that have not yet been made, would be $24 billion
TARP PAYBACK FUNDS
McCarthy Joins Colleagues Asking Administration to Clarify Contradictory TARP Repayment Plans
http://kevinmccarthy.house.gov/index.php?option=co...
note any returned funds were to pay down the deficit.Obama ,where are the funds?
You probably know politics better than I do, but I was watching the History channel or some other relatively reliable source a night or so ago and they referenced the exact numbers regarding the surplus post Clinton and pre Bush. Quite frankly I felt fairly safe in the hands of Clinton, I don't really care who was under his desk. I felt extremely vulnerable under Bush and couldn't help but feel the need to refrain from laughing whenever I watched him publicly speak, which isn't actually funny at all considering he was supposed to be running our nation. Now, Obama? I don't even know anymore. You kind of have to put your faith in whoever is running your country, though I feel like we are in a rut and I don't know that he has the ability to get us out.
That was not to say Bush wasn't a disaster, both with a GOP Congress and without. He was. But getting to the root of the problem, so as to reach a solution, means being honest about the criminal sins of both major parties.
There is a ruling class that comprises BOTH of the two major party establishments. While many of them may well hate each other, their racket is MORE dependent on keeping the populace divided and incapable of rational discussion than it is on defeating the other party. They are like divorce lawyers. Keep the unhappy couple frothing at each other and use that take them for all they are worth.
The central banking racketeers have BOTH major party establishments in their pocket.
Thanks for the very kind words PoetVix. And thanks for running a good discussion.
The Clinton "surplus" was an accounting gimmick. The budgets were also not "Clinton's" but a product of divided rule, with Clinton in the White House and a GOP congress. Anyone calling it a "Clinton" surplus is either trying to fool you or has been fooled by someone else.
Regardless of what one thinks of Craig Steiner, or the rest of his piece, there's a really good explanation of the accounting gimmick here:
http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/craigsteine...
In a way it's pretty simple. Because government can borrow from itself, one must look at the sum total of all the books, rather than a subset. A bit like with personal finances. If you spend more than you make each month, but stick it all on a credit card for a couple of months, your checking account balance can rise. Looks good, but it isn't the real picture of what is going on.
As before, anyone saying that Bush "is where the problem started" is either trying to fool you, or has been fooled.
When Clinton left office we had a surplus in the billions, after Bush left office we had a deficit in the trillions, the problem started there. I feel like puppets on strings, we must do what we are told but nobody is there to satisfy our needs. Where is our Voice? Great Hub
- AUTHOR
JustMC ~ Thank you, Sir, and I do mean that. Your comment here is beyond hub-worthy itself. It should be bronzed for posterity. I truly appreciate the way you have explained our nation's debt. Kudos! Please, feel beyond free and most welcome to continue to do so at any time you wish. God bless and keep you. America needs strong voices capable of illustrating truth such as yours.
Folks, the nature of various types of money is a bit difficult to understand. Fiat currency, backed by nothing, is particularly hard to make sense of, because most people’s only experience with it is the phase of its life PRIOR to collapse and ruin. Put another way, you believe in it because you don’t know differently…yet.
Further, a central bank with unlimited power to create money can THEORETICALLY go on forever without defaults, but then John From Cleveland’s little (read: BIG) lie about inflation won’t be able to remain hidden. It is NOT that the money created out of thin air does not make for inflation, as he falsely claims, it is that they work to manage that devaluation from being too noticeable to you.
The Fed’s job is to boil the frog (you) slowly enough that you don’t notice and rise up to resist the theft of inflation. This only works for a while, until there is a crisis. Most recently, 2008. Then they create LOT of money in short order to stop crisis defaults. But it can roll for a surprisingly long time with people unaware.
Yet you can see it if you bother to look. Gold was $700 not so long before the crisis. Now it’s $1600. Gas was $2. Now it’s almost $4. The DOW collapsed below 7000. Now it’s back at 14,000. But your wages have not doubled. You are more poor. And the crisis of 2008 must be spun so you don’t realize that the real victim is YOU, and the real beneficiaries are the central bankers and their friends. To whom you are now in FAR greater debt than you were just a few years ago. It’s the old “company store” racket. Thomas Jefferson warned about it.
What REALLY happens over time is you, as a citizen, end up in DEBT to the central bankers, and this is ENFORCED by government. You end up working to repay it. You become a slave to this debt. And make no mistake, even though the money is created out of thin air, YOUR LABOR AND YOUR CONFISCATED PROPERTY ARE VERY REAL, and the government will take these things from you with the threat of REAL guns, and they will CONSUME them with their central banker cronies.
The reason there is so much resistance to auditing the Fed is that it is a racket. The greatest racket ever. And it didn’t start with the Fed, the central bankers have been doing this for hundreds of years. And they hop from great empire to great empire. 1913 is when they cracked the US, which was a real THREAT to their racket until then, with the amazing success of the gold-backed dollar.
To understand the racket better, put yourself in the central bank’s shoes, to see how magical it is to be DEEMED a MONEY CREATOR by FIAT (aka: law).
Case 1, with REAL money: your friend wants to buy a house, and he asks you to lend him the 150k to buy it. You are rich, and you sell off cars, stereos, land, until you have a 150k in cash to lend. You do so, and now he pays you interest. He has to go WORK. Grow crops, build cars, sweep floors, whatever, to repay that debt. All fine. And you can see it is not magic: YOU, the LENDER, are without the REAL ASSETS it took for you to raise the 150k.
Case 2: with FIAT money. Same deal, but you are the central bank with the power of FIAT. You can CREATE money out of thin air. Your friend wants to borrow 150k to buy a house. You CREATE 150k of new money out of thin air. The money supply is now LARGER. Again, the borrower has to WORK to PAY YOU. BUT, now he is not paying you for the use of your REAL ASSETS, but rather, he is paying you because you were ANNOINTED BY FIAT, by law, as a special CONNECTED person with the power to create money. He’s working HARD for YOU, but you didn’t DO or LEND anything REAL. You simply have the POWER to create wealth. He’s now working for the banker NOT because the banker did anything real, but because the BANKER IS THE CHOSEN ONE.
If you think the magic benefit to the banker in Case 2 is too good to be true, it is. It comes at a price. Paid by everyone else. If you think the magic of FIAT MONEY must STEAL the value of everyone else’s savings, you are right again.
We all know that counterfeiting in our basements steals from everyone else. At its core, it is no different when the central bankers do it. They just have the law’s guns and spin on their side. But at its essence, it is the same racket. When the dollar was backed by gold, it was like Case 1 above. And for over a hundred years (minus unbacked printing crimes like the Civil War “greenbacks”), goods got CHEAPER. Slow, healthy deflation. The dollar would buy MORE tomorrow, not less.
That’s the natural order of societal advancement. Aside from certain scarce resources, things get CHEAPER. We can ALWAYS know how to make anything as cheaply as we did yesterday, and we almost always get better at it. Computers are an example where it has gotten so much better that prices have actually gone down even with overall inflation. But since the creation of the Fed, the opposite is true. Since the Fed was created, the dollar has lost 98+ percent of its value. READ THAT AGAIN. For 100 years before the Fed, the dollar INCREASED IN VALUE. Since the Fed, the dollar has LOST 98% of its value. That value didn’t vanish, it WENT INTO THE HANDS OF THE CENTRAL BANKERS AND THEIR CRONIES, with some crumbs tossed out to the masses.
So ask yourself again if you can believe John from Cleveland. Ask yourself if it CAN BE TRUE that the national debt doesn’t need to be paid back because more money can be created AND that prices won’t skyrocket, to where bread costs $10 or $100 a loaf, while your income stagnates. Further, consider the racket that turns natural deflation into inflation. IMAGINE how rich are the folks whose shell game allows them to eat up ALL THE SOCIETAL EFFICIENCY GAINS that should make everything cheaper, and skim enough that all things get more expensive. It’s the greatest known theft in all of history. Period.
- AUTHOR
Jon ~ Dear Jon, what is there to say? You did it much better than I could. I eagerly anticipate hitting those links you left. I'm really sorry I have not been around much. I'm embroiled in a fight with a school board right now that is uglier than I ever could have dreamed of despite being warned over and over again. The end is in sight and I can't wait to dive back into a subject other than the corruption and strong arm tactics of said board in question. Funny, as I type this it occurs to me they are not very different than the entities we all are railing about here. God bless you, Sir! It is through the ongoing efforts of yourself and many others here who fight this in your own ways every day that we might still have some chance. Thank you so much for returning periodically and updating with the latest links. God bless and keep you and yours, always.
- AUTHOR
JohnfrmCleveland - "...But we could pay it off tomorrow if we wanted to, simply by printing up about $14 trillion dollars and exchanging them for the outstanding bonds." This ideological tract is dangerous. This somewhat new idea of just printing cash until you have enough to do whatever is CRAZY! It does devalue the dollar. Just look at the last four years. Every time more is printed the buying power of what is in existence goes down. We end up paying more to get less.
You keep talking about large bonds and how other nations would rather hold those notes on America rather than get the cash and that may be true. I respectfully submit... So, what? That is one component of a huge picture that totally leaves out how this is affecting the vast majority of people, i.e. us, Joe Blow Americans, who aren't buying millions of dollars worth of bonds. We, that huge pool of unimportant, non bond buying Americans are where a huge chuck of the money in circulation comes from.
It is in our best interest to do the following:
Make the government be completely, 100% transparent in the spending of OUR money.
Limit the printing of said money while it still has some buying power.
Get some control over interest rates. So many American seniors worked like slaves so they could build a good life. They did well and now in retirement should be able to live off the interest of their accumulated savings. They can't due to current interest rates. While they make not enough to eat, the powers that be keep using their money. That's what banks do. They use OUR money to make themselves money.
The downgrade of American credit may not have had a direct effect on bond yields but it surely had and continues to have a huge impact on the interest rates of credit, mortgages, car loans, the price of groceries and so on to infinity.
Lastly, here's another huge impact that doesn't get too much play... It's killing consumer confidence. While relegated to bottom rung status, the American consumer drives this economy. We are holding onto our dollars more and more and trusting our leaders to solve the situation less and less. The less I spend, the less they can tax... theoretically. We all know they are finding new and creative ways daily to just take our money.
While I do see what you are saying on a theoretical level, in reality, I feel we all are going to be suffering the consequences of this for some time to come be the money "real" or not. Rest assured the pain said "money" causes will be intense and it will be global. Perhaps, if I follow your ideological track here, the real question becomes how are the global governments and our own benefiting from the huge farce that is the debt crisis? If it is engineered, it must be so to some end. What is said end?
God bless and happy hubbing.
Hubbers
Debt is debt and not paying bond holders the interest on the debt triggers a default. A default will trigger massive increases in interest rates.The dollar is the basis of world trade.Devaluation of the dollar increases the cost of products such as oil which uses the dollar for payments. The US credit was lower simply because of the nations spending appetite.
The fiscal cliff law recently passed by the 113th Congress was designed to reduce the deficit,by raising taxes on income of $400,000 actually added $74 billion in spending through changes in the tax law.
Congress just added $70 billion worth of new loopholes.
FISCAL CLIFF, why? 2/13/10 Pay Go Law
The President lied?
http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&...
Taxes were raised in the law, so why wasn't there spending cuts to offset the new taxes. Just another promise from Obama and the Democrat Senate?
2/19/13 SEQUESTRATION WAKE UP AMERICA
The President blaming Republicans are lies The Democrat Senate has not voted..
A solution CUT WASTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs
http://majorityleader.gov/JobsTracker/
https://hubpages.com/politics/PRESIDENTBARACKOBAMA...
Obama quotes today
’’So now Republicans in Congress face a simple choice:’’
. I’ve put tough cuts and reforms on the table. I am willing to work with anybody to get this job done’’
NOT TRUE
Poetvix said: "First, the national debt is money that is credited by the bean counters as being owed by our country. That means said debt, be it legitimate or not, will be either defaulted upon or will have to be paid ultimately by the citizenry."
The national debt won't ever have to be paid. But we could pay it off tomorrow if we wanted to, simply by printing up about $14 trillion dollars and exchanging them for the outstanding bonds. But those bondholders (banks, China, Japan, etc.) prefer to hold bonds instead of cash (that's why they exchanged them in the first place). They could always cash them in and spend them, but they choose not to.
"The downgrade of America’s credit has direct results affecting interest rates that affect most of us..."
Actually, the downgrade had no effect on bond yields at all. Right after the last downgrade, short-term bonds were selling for a 0% yield. You don't get any safer than 0%, and the folks who buy bonds are not the least bit worried about America's ability to print up more dollars. Nor are they worried about inflation.
"I have to admit having read your comment twice. I’m about to read it again for I feel there is something really juicy in it that I’m missing… It’s driving me nuts!"
Keep reading. It's in there.
- AUTHOR
JohnfrmCleveland ~ Cool! You returned. Thank you. Obviously, I don't agree with the slant of everything you are saying but I have to give you that yes, governments have the authority to print money. You state, "Countries print money for the use of their population, and that is that." That is that, but it is not just that.
First, the money is not printed for the use of the population exclusively or there would be no such thing as taxes. If money had no value, they wouldn't come after people and lock them up for not paying taxes. The fact that they do proves they value the money. They print it and allow us to slave for small amounts of it before we have to hand it back them in the form of income tax, sales tax, gas tax, taxes on cell phones so forth and so on to the point where most people in our nation are doing good to bring home 48 cents of every dollar they make.
You state there is "no one to be paid back." If that is the case, why are we paying? We are paying because some member or representative of our government signed a document when the money was borrowed that legally binds our nation to pay back said amount. I would love to tell my mortgage holder your argument and that I don't owe them. Sadly, my house is collateral. In the case of the national deficit, our nation is the collateral.
While I see the logic of what you are saying, the signatures on the loan documents dictate that we will have to pay it back or default. I fear a default of this magnitude would instigate further global unrest leading ultimately to violence which we all know won't solve anything. Our debt crisis is not going away and it's growing like a ravenous beast. God bless and happy hubbing.
- AUTHOR
Ceegen ~ Thank you so much for reading and commenting. I think there is gold in that there comment! You stated, "It is *not* something that was designed to fight that you could win, it was designed to fail on purpose so that people fight against whatever solution is proposed." That is the heart of the problem. You hit it on the head. The entire system is designed to keep us fighting amongst ourselves over how tiny components of any proposal affect a small percentage of the whole. It's working better than I bet they dreamed it would.
Funny, in a curious way, I recently read a document from 1963 of communist goals they wanted implemented in America. It was just a few days ago that I read it. Almost every one of them has come to pass. A constant theme throughout the document was one of division among the people. It is exactly what has happened and exactly what you speak of. I'm not sure how to go about fixing it but I know it will be without the help of our government who is benefiting from it greatly. God bless you.
- AUTHOR
Pacecharging ~ Thank you very much for taking the time to read and comment. I don't blame anyone for not wading through all the comments. Who has that kind of time? I agree about the don't spend more than you take in. Sadly, our leaders know this to be wise but do just the opposite. We have to either get some leverage over them or get rid of them. As long as they hold the reins to our money, we are screwed.
God bless and happiest of hubbing!
- AUTHOR
EmpatheticAdvisor ~ Thank you for your time and comment. I agree wholeheartedly! The saddest thing, for me, is that our government knows this and yet they still chose to bankrupt the nation. God bless and help us all.
- AUTHOR
Healthyfitness ~ You called it! I suspect the reason we keep voting them in is because there is no one else running. When there is, some suit type uses his/her twisted version of law to run them off. An honest man does not stand a chance in American politics as they are currently. We must reform the entire system. I think Wayne Brown said it best some time ago... clean out the entire hill! God bless and happy hubbing!
- AUTHOR
JohnfrmCleveland - Hm. Another juicy comment, thank you! You state, " It is certainly not due to demand-pull inflation, or we would be seeing across-the-board inflation plus a greatly devalued dollar versus other currencies, neither of which is happening."
While it may or may not be attributed solely to oil, I contend we are seeing rampant inflation and it's only going to get worse. How can I back up that statement? Easily! You see the price on groceries is steadily creeping up and has been for the last four years. I used to pay .33 cents for Mac and Cheese. (Bear with me for a minute.) This price was last year. Now, night before last, I passed up the exact same thing because the price was .58. That is almost double in one year. Gas has gone up. Postage stamps cost more. My car insurance went up over 20%. Co-pays for my doctor just went up another five dollars. When the prices of goods and services I have to pay for with American dollars go up but my amount of dollars stays the same my purchasing power plummets. This is happening to all consumers all over the country. That is inflation!!!
God bless you may all of your hubs be happy.
- AUTHOR
Jon EWall ~ It's so good to see you here. I hope you are well. Amen, Sir, Amen! A billion a day in interest...It boggles the brain!
Considering things from the comment above yours for a minute...Just letting the mind wander here... It evokes images of a huge conspiracy theory. If that comment is correct, and we should not be worrying about paying the debt (which I DO NOT agree with) then could not we make the argument that the whole thing is nothing more than an illusion to disguise funneling massive amounts of our money to other non-freedom loving nations? Looking at it from that perspective it just screams "wealth redistribution!". Funny, that term has only come into play with the current administration.
Jon, it's great to see you here. You're comments are not only welcome but enlightening and greatly appreciated. God bless you!
- AUTHOR
JohnfrmCleveland ~ Thank you for taking the time to read and leave such an interesting comment. First, the national debt is money that is credited by the bean counters as being owed by our country. That means said debt, be it legitimate or not, will be either defaulted upon or will have to be paid ultimately by the citizenry. The downgrade of America’s credit has direct results affecting interest rates that affect most of us therefore I contend that the consequences of the rising debt do affect us all and therefore to some extent it is surely real.
You state, “If America is really in debt up to our eyeballs and facing bankruptcy, why is everybody still buying up our bonds at miniscule yields? And why is our interest rate so incredibly low?” You make a few good points here. Yes, the government does print the money but as for interest rates, the Fed controls that. The fed is “outside the scope” of our congress. They both are and are not part of the government. Many here feel, and I agree, the Fed is the number one source of our problem.
People will continue to buy bonds for many reasons. For foreign buyers, the idea of owning a chunk of America is appealing. For many others they simply see few viable alternatives especially if we are speaking of seniors. Many do so out of a sense of loyalty to the nation.
You say there is no reason to pay off the debt at all and from the government’s perspective I can see the point you make. Here’s the rub. OUR government is supposed to be for and by the people. This monetary policy benefits the people not at all. It is OUR government and it is OUR money they are using. That makes it OUR problem.
I have to admit having read your comment twice. I’m about to read it again for I feel there is something really juicy in it that I’m missing… It’s driving me nuts! Thanks again for the read and the comment. God bless and happy hubbing!
Why all the conspiracy theories?
Sovereign countries can make their own money. It doesn't have to come from anywhere else, it doesn't have to have any intrinsic value (like gold), and - most importantly - there is nobody to be "paid back." Countries print money for the use of their population, and that is that.
Even China runs a deficit. Yes, China, king of the exporters, runs a fiscal deficit. They have to - where else would they get the renminbi to operate? Other countries don't print renminbi, do they?
Our national debt is a problem we've made for ourselves, by placing trust in "someone else" to fix the problem for us.
But all this turmoil and all these problems we're having, was designed that way. It is *not* something that was designed to fight that you could win, it was designed to fail on purpose so that people fight against whatever solution is proposed.
As mentioned above, I tried to read some of the comments too, but way too many... how's about the simple, control your own finances and take responsibility for ones actions. Don't spend more than you make / take in and behave.
Advice both for people and governments.
I tried to read all of the commentary here plus the article and it just made my head spin.
Everyone has their own version of politics and beliefs, hence the need for numerous politicians that supposedly represent these needs.
The bottom line to get out of any debt crisis, whether personal or governmental is basic common sense.
When you don't have money you can't spend it.
If you owe money, then you best be thinking about how you are going to pay it off.
No one in their right mind would go out and pay their neighbors bills when they had money, let alone when there is no money to pay your own.
If you want to dig yourself out of a financial hole, you have to do 2 things:
1) Stop spending money except for the necessities which are not optional. Everyone has to live and be healthy enough so that they can go to work to make the money they need to get out of their hole.
2) If the income you make is not enough to cover basic necessities, let alone enough to start paying down your debt, then guess what? You have to get another job or source income in order to cover the gap in order to meet these needs.
Once you have done this and dug yourself out of your hole, then you best not make the same mistake twice to put yourself back in there.
I am not against charity or helping others, as there but for the grace of God go I, as most average Americans are just a few paychecks away from being on the street themselves.
However in order to avoid this, by ensuring that we have our own affairs in order and that our families are taken care of first, this then puts us in a more secure position to be able to then focus on helping others.
This logic applies at any level and should be the mantra of our country in order to fix our current mess.
It doesn't matter who you vote in. They all become corrupt. "W" seemed honest and sincere but Cheney ran things and boy did he run it to he max. Clinton had all kinds of weird dealings. George Herbert, well did nothing good, except make SNL funny once more. Obama is just 8 yrs of talk. To change things, you need to help fund your senator's vacation home, season ticket to games, a corporate jet, etc. To get these guys on your side, someone is always going to get paid, in my opinion. Delays make projects and goals just cost more. More pocket money for them. 10 yrs in Afghanistan is no mistake.
Stop voting in LAWYERS and BUSINESSMEN into our offices!!!!!
These professions breed liars, so why do we keep voting them into our government is beyond me.
Like I said before, the government issues bonds for the purpose of controlling the overnight interest rate. The interest paid does no harm to our economy. The value of money does not go down every time money is printed, because approximately the same amount is retired by bonds sales - the actual amount of dollars in play is pretty stable, and only increases slowly. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/WCURCI...
Today's inflation is primarily due to the increased cost of oil. It is certainly not due to demand-pull inflation, or we would be seeing across-the-board inflation plus a greatly devalued dollar versus other currencies, neither of which is happening.
JohnfrmCleveland
''They print up the stuff, so there is no need to borrow. Our government has, over the years, created about $15 trillion by deficit spending.'' If we are not in debt, why is the government paying $1 billion/ day in interest payments to the creditors of those who purchased the bonds? Every time the government prints more money, the value of that money is reduced. We are in an inflationary period today, everything is requiring more dollars to purchase needed necessaties of life.
Poetvix - have you considered the possibility that you simply misunderstand what the "national debt" really is? (Don't worry if you haven't questioned the conventional wisdom, because you certainly won't be alone.)
Think about these questions:
Where does money come from?
If you could print your own currency (like our government can), why would you borrow that same currency?
Who even has $15 trillion U.S. dollars to loan us?
If America is really in debt up to our eyeballs and facing bankruptcy, why is everybody still buying up our bonds at miniscule yields? And why is our interest rate so incredibly low?
Now, consider these answers: Money comes from the government. They print up the stuff, so there is no need to borrow. Our government has, over the years, created about $15 trillion by deficit spending. Government bonds are now used as a savings vehicle - people/banks/countries with large amounts of dollars often exchange their dollars for bonds, which are risk-free and pay a bit of interest. And the interest rate on those bonds is incredibly low because the government sets the interest rate.
So the government prints up money, spends it into circulation, we use it, most of it ends up in the hands of rich people, banks, and countries with which we have a trade deficit, and those entities hold those dollars in the form of bonds. It's not a debt situation at all. There is no reason to "pay off the debt" at all. That's just how fiat currency economies operate.
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Jon - Thank you! I can't believe that man, or any of his administration, have any intention of reducing the debt or they would have done so. What have they done? Weaken us so much financially that America may not survive. These are not stupid people regardless of how stupid their actions may seem to us. We must look at their actions through the lens of questioning the results of their actions. When one accepts the fact that they get the results they go after, one knows there is a fox in the hen house. In America's case, the hen house is full of them!
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Californialaw - While your comment is to Jon, I have to mention that on one point you must be correct. Mr. Obama did not do it alone. As for the last results of the election, considering all the voter fraud that has been proven, not to mention those coming out and admitting proudly to it, I can't honestly say the nation is as divided as one would believe looking only at the reported election results. Food for thought. God bless and happy hubbing.
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Jon - It's so good to see you have been dropping by. I regret being away for so long. I would like to say the problems keeping me away are solved, but far from it. I'm finding out up close and personal just how hard fighting a bureaucracy is. It's a miracle anything ever gets done within such systems.
To me, it's simple math really. You can't spend what you don't have if you ever wish to get out of debt. That raises an interesting question does it not? Since most 2nd graders can do that kind of math, I can't believe the current administration wants to do anything other than bankrupt the nation. God bless you, Sir. You are a great American and I really appreciate how you never give up!
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Californialaw - Thank you very much for taking the time to read and comment. We see this ever increasing taxation of the rich is doing nothing more than prompting the rich to leave the country thereby reducing revenue. It's an ugly downward cycle that can only get worse. God bless and happy hubbing!
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Jon ~ I could not agree more. I hope and pray they are held to the law but if the last four years is any indication, it won't happen any time soon. God bless!
hubbers
12/19/12
Here's the latest if you didn't see it.
12/19/12
President Obama’s Fiscal Cliff Plan “Balance” not true
http://www.speaker.gov/general/president-obama-s-f...
Obama Fiscal Cliff Speech: I 'Won't Compromise' On Taxes
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/obama-fis... "won't compromise" on his demands that the wealthiest Americans pay higher tax rates
Cooking the books an Obama specialty ( hokus pokus)
House plan ‘’B’’
http://www.speaker.gov/general/what-s-plan-b-bill-...
http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&...
The President and the Democrat’s problem is that they haven't presented the necessary cuts to comply with the PAY-GO LAW. The Democrats cuts are calculated over 10 years, pay-go requires the cuts to be in the exiting budgets. The previous agreement cuts between the parties was a fraud. The Democrats never allowed the agreed cuts to occur hence one of the reasons that the nation is on a path of destroying the American way of life. The President is stalling and the next calamity is the national debt problem.
Senate on July 19,2011. https://hubpages.com/politics/PRESIDENTBARACKOBAMA...
barry ritholtz would be proud of this post. Thanks Jon.
Jon I think you read my comment too quickly...haha :) I completely agree with all of that.
But President Obama didn't do it alone- as the last election showed this country is truly divided.
Californialaw
The problem is that the country is working in the red. When that happens , you go to bankruptcy, many more poor and middle class will be hurt most. The President can be heard, '' I'm fighting for the middle class '', '' I want to build the economy from the middle class up''. Listen closely, Obama hardly ever mentions fighting for the poor, wonder why? The Obama led government takes in $5 billion/day and spends $11 billion/day.
Raising taxes on the so called rich will not help the middle class or poor. Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person or a middle class person? The uneducated and people who are not in the know believe the President.
Government waste is the problem. The President and Congress can solve the problems tomorrow by following the law and by allowing Senators to express their beliefs by debating, amending and voting. The House has passed a bill to solve the '' fiscal cliff''. Don't be fooled, call your Senator and ask him to VOTE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/17/senator...
http://majorityleader.gov/JobsTracker/
FISCAL CLIFF, why?
2/13/10 Pay Go Law
The President lied?
http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&...
Pay-go law
New taxes = cuts in todays ( not over 10 years ) budgeted money = deficit/ cost neutral.
The President wanted $800 billion in new revenue, Boehner got it. President now wants $1 trillion, Boehner will find it . Obama will never agree because Obama can’t come up with or will come up with $1 trillion in CUTS . Obama’s gimmick ( fooling the people ) is cutting in 10 years. As far back as Bush 1, the Democrats have promised to cut and as of today NEVER delivered. WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?
President Obama is responsible for the ‘’ fiscal cliff’’ collapse of the economy and the government.
So thankful that there is still common sense in this country. You can't go around helping everyone (both at home and abroad) when there is literally no money left to help them.
I'm glad the focus is on government spending, not on taxing the rich which only helps mitigate the spending for a few days- yet has somehow become the focus of all socioeconomic debates.
poetvix
SURPRISE SURPRISE,Obama and the Democrats won.
The ''fiscal cliff'', President Obama negotiating with Speaker Boehner to solve the problem. The solution is simple, government needs to follow the law!
2/13/10 Pay Go Law
The President lied?
http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&...
Where are the news media reports?
NEXT is to cut WASTE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/17/senator...
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/health/policy/ga...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/13/usda-mo...
https://hubpages.com/politics/barakobamacampaignpr...
https://hubpages.com/politics/Obamacare-Anatomy-of...
Renewable energy money still going abroad, despite criticism from Congress
http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investig...
GOVERNMENT WASTE the past 5 years, the Social Security Trust fund has paid $400 billion to dead federal employees.
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JustMC - Thank you for visiting. Your comments are appreciated greatly. While everyone knows I lean to the right, you have a point that can not be denied about both sides contributing to the problem and the election not being the fix. In my opinion, it is the first step in a very long line of painful steps that will be needed to fix this. The nation is headed for hard times, period. If we wish to remain a free nation of any standing at all, we the people will have to become much more involved and start holding all of our leaders legally accountable for all of their actions.
Thanks bunches for commenting. God bless and happy hubbing!
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James Watkins - Thank you so much for wading through such a long winded thing as this. I love visits from you. God bless and may all of your hubs be happy!
For any of you not familiar with Mr. Watkins you really should check him out. His hubs are not only some of the best researched I have come across, but also they are entertaining, informative and always a rich experience to enjoy.
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Debtreliefoptions - Thanks bunches for dropping by. Yes, prioritization is a must. At this point, I think paying towards the principle balance must be priority one! God bless and happy hubbing.
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Jon - First, I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond. I have been out of it for a few months and retreated into Farmville for some mindless clicking time to regroup and clear my head.
Thank you so very much for your updates. Your information and the support you provide for them is always useful and I am grateful. While you know I agree 100% the ruling administration must be voted out en mass for the country to have even a chance at recovery, I must add JustMC has a point. Corruption runs rampant throughout both sides of the apple. I feel we, the citizenry, are largely to blame for much of this for letting too much slide for too long. No matter what party gets it, we must be ever watchful and on them always.
God bless and keep you always.
Respectfully, Mr. Ewall, in November the people will not have their chance to correct the problems created by the ruling party.
Rather, in November, the people will have their chance to throw out the ruling party in favor of a different party that will largely do all the same things, and will certainly not show any fiscal responsibility.
Unless one believes that write-in candidates can win, or unless people WORK to get Ron Paul, and other real, small-government Constitutionalists, into office. But the odds are that almost nobody on the ballot will have any intent to "correct the problems created by the ruling party." And more accurately, these problems were not created by "the ruling party" but by both major parties.
James A Watkins
In Nov. the people will have their chance to correct the problems created by the ruling party.They have had 2/3s controll of the government since 2007 up to the present 2012.
Your article is fabulous and so are the comments that ensued. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Thank you for expressing your discerning wisdom. God Bless!
James :-)
Very good hub to discuss a very important issue. In my opinion, you get out of debts if you organize everything priority wise.
poetvix
Obama is pushing Congress to pass the Buffet Rule bill. What Obama and Buffet are not telling the American people is how the bill will effect the small investor and others who rely on dividends and other income producing investments. Check these out for FAIRNESS.
Buffett Rule Bill Before the Senate Is a Small Step Towards Tax Fairness
http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2012/04/buffett_rule_bil...
THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY
Eleven ways Warren Buffett is lying with Barak Obama
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/blog/stu/eleve-wa...
4/10/12
Potential impact of Obama's 'Buffett rule'
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/your-world-cavuto/in.../v/1555656093001/potential-impact-of-obamas-buffett-rule/?playlist_id=86929
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Mary - First, thank you very much for your time in both the read and the comment. I know! It's like they study how to waste the most! I can't for one second believe they don't know better so I have to suspect they want to bankrupt us. No kidding, I have seen children do a better job of managing money. God bless and happy hubbing!
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Sligobay - Hi there! It's good to hear from you. I haven't been around much for weeks and it was great to see you upon my return. To be totally honest, I don't know how are why this hub is getting the traffic it is. This was not a thought out planned type of hub. This was a rant! Maybe I should rant more often :).
God bless you. I hope you are well.
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Neil - Thank you so much for the links. I just finished watching the video. Scary stuff. I think it's pretty simple why we are not hearing of it though I doubt anyone will like what I think. In my opinion, what this administration has done is speed the downfall of America and the ideals of freedom as no other ever has done. If what is proposed in that video happens, and it will, it will further weaken us. That's why we are not hearing about it. The media, TV anyway, has been bought and paid for. They are no longer the watch dogs of the people but have become the guard dogs of the establishment. We are just the kibble.
Thanks again. God bless and happiest of hubbing for you.
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Jon - Amen to your last statement! That man is the best at deception I have ever seen bar none! I don't think we will get a budget passed while he is in office. Why should he want that? Then he would be bound to follow it. Why do that when what he's doing now gives him total freedom to steal the country blind? In my opinion, it's embezzlement! God bless and happy hubbing.
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Phoebe - Thank you for taking the time to read and comment. Yes! Frightening is the word. Did you hear the latest? Now our leader is giving 1.5 billion dollars of our money, without congressional approval, to the Muslim brotherhood. And we wonder why we are in debt. God bless and happy hubbing!
poetvix
The latest on 4/01/12 ( april fools day)
Check this out. In true time, uncut and the actual view un censored.
STEPHANOPOULOS: This Week on CBS
The last comment on the Ryan budget by Congressman Van Hollen was untrue and Congressman Ryan was not allowed to respond. The commentator switched to the healthcare/ supreme court hearings rather than let Ryan respond.
The video
http://republicanredefined.com/2012/04/01/contrast...
A article
http://republicanredefined.com/2012/04/01/contrast...
High Gas prices
VAN HOLLEN says ‘’
The president has reached out to other oil-producing countries around the world. And they have got a STRATEGY now to GET MORE OIL on the market. That should drive down prices’’. Really increase production!
PAUL RYAN says ‘’Let’s get our oil that is locked on public lands by President Obama. Let’s open up the Keystone pipeline to bring Canadian oil into our country to dramatically reduce our dependency on foreign oil. It creates jobs here in America. It lowers gas prices, increases supply’’. MAKES SENSE to me!
VAN HOLLEN: Domestic oil production is at an all-time high. I think we know that’s a fact ( a half truth )
RYAN: That’s private land, not public land.
There is a huge difference to producing on public land compared to private land. On public land the Government gets addition monies. Oil producers pay for leases, a royalty of approximately $ 18 a barrel besides the 40% of taxes gained from the PROFIT’S the oil companies pay. Oh ,let’s not forget AMERICAN jobs. Back in 2008 candidate Obama promised jobs? Obama did say that the government needs to increase revenues.
Note, on previous Ryan BUDGET link , cut and paste link Un cut, unabridged and the real thing explained by Congressman Ryan in detail.
https://jon-ewall.hubpages.com/
?
Excellent Hub. I can't believe how much money our elected peeps waste. It is my money and it makes me mad that it is being wasted on entitlements, boondoggles, and paybacks.
Hi Vix. You are still generating a lot of traffic and interest to your article. Good for you darlin'. Keep up the good work.
Why has this not been front page news?
poetvix
check this out.
March 25, 2012
Rep. Paul Ryan defends GOP budget plan
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/inde.../v/1529380822001/rep-paul-ryan-defends-gop-budget-plan/?playlist_id=86913
The dems are misinforming the public regarding the 2013 Ryan budget plan. The House passed the new budget a couple of days ago.THE HOUSE VOTED ON PRESIDENT OBAMA'S 2013 budget, THE VOTE WAS 414-0 AGAINST HIS BUDGET. The Senate hasn't passed a budget in over 1100 days.A pittiful example on how the DEMOCRAT CONTROLED SENATE is working to fix the economy.When Obama claims that Congress is the problem. let'
s not forget who he really should be Talking about.
It's frightening how much our government spends... and it's only going to get worse.
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Just MC - Thank you for taking the time to dig into the Venus project. I hit the link but did not have time to go further. I could not agree more with your statement "The answer is individual liberty." That one statement really sums things up rather well. The more we rely on governments or call on them to supposedly fix problems, the more we sacrifice our freedom, the more power over us we give them. They have too much now.
Thank you so much for your insightful comment. God bless!
Neil posted a link to the founder of the Venus Project. Which basically complains about wrongs, but doesn't seem to offer any answers. Further, the more I dug into the Venus Project, it looks like it is simply repackaged world socialism.
Socialism is the opposite of freedom. Fresco rightly points out that all governments are corrupt. But all the things Fresco seems to be advocating imply an unmentioned, all-powerful world government of the honest and enlightened.
Well, no offense, but he should have stopped at "all governments are corrupt," including the new one he wants to create.
The answer is individual liberty. NO mandates of any kind, no one forced in any way to do anything against his will, so long as it is not a DIRECT and demonstrable threat to the life, liberty, or property of another INDIVIDUAL.
The proper use of force is simply to resist the force of others when used to compel people against their wills. The only proper use of force is to defend life, liberty, and property. The only law should be protecting a CLEAR VICTIM from a CLEAR ASSAILANT.
All other law IS THE ASSAILANT.
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Neil - Hi there. Wow. That was an interesting link. I can't say I agree with everything he says, but I do agree with much of it and most especially the general gist... All nations are corrupt. Thanks for sharing. God bless and happy hubbing!
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Blake4d - Hi you! It's good to see you here. I know, the comments are like a small country! I think we should name it PC sucks.
I'm looking forward to the reads. Your stuff is always way interesting and I always learn a lot. Lately I'm brain dead from work and some stuff going on around here so I'm more than a little behind on my reading. I will catch up. God bless and take care of you. Peace.
Check this guy out.... Jacque Fresco
Good golly poetvix, I think this hubs commentary section goes down fifty six miles and turns left, that in itself cannot be politically correct by any standard. Groovy hub though,I doubt I can crawl my way back to the top again. You go girl. I have a few new cultish cool things posted this week and one I sent to you in a message in Facebook. Check it and learn how to stop getting so many fans. LMAO. xoxo Blake4d
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Neil - Looking forward to the read. Thanks bunches for taking the time. God bless!
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Perspycacious ~ Thank you for taking the time to comment. You're right. That train is running full steam straight for our bankruptcy! Superman might require the entire Justice league to back him up on this one.
Start something right now you said - I shared a way to start "something" right now in my hub Pioneering the next economy. Connect that hub with my hub on the power of duplication and you will see we are already powerful.
When you point to the government or to big business... notice one finger (index finger) points out to them - but four fingers point back to yourself. That says it all!
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