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AMERICA: BY The NRA and FOR The NRA?

Updated on March 27, 2013

A Gun Show Loophole Big Enough to Drive a Convoy of Illegal Guns Through?

And Yet - It's STILL gaping open...


FACT: Two out of every five guns sold in the United States - are done so WITHOUT documentation or background checks!

FACT: Gun shows are a known mecca for the illegal sale and purchase of firearms!

FACT: Private sellers and 'hobbyists' at gun shows are NOT required to fill out paperwork - or perform standard background checks!

FACT: There will be over ONE HUNDRED gun shows in neighborhoods just like yours - THIS WEEKEND - and over FIVE THOUSAND this year!

Now...when one reasonably considers the 'state of affairs' with regard to gun deaths - and the clear up-swing in mass murders in this country - the only reasonable question remaining would be:

WHAT-THE-FACT IS GOING ON HERE?


WHAT-THE-FACT is Going on Here...


Here are a few interesting fact-oids that might help us to better understand how this obviously dangerous practice is allowed to not only continue unencumbered - but to flourish - EVEN AFTER SIXTEEN MASS MURDER SPREES IN 2012 ALONE...

In 2009, a House Bill was introduced and referred to 'The Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security'.

The bill - called 'The Gun Show Background Check Act' - would have expanded the existing federal criminal code to include the implementation and enforcement of proper record keeping and standard background checks for any firearm sold at a gun show.

It called only for the same standardized safety checks and balances that licensed, federally authorized firearms dealers must adhere to.

Since only SIXTY PER CENT of firearms are sold through an authorized dealer - this particular piece of legislation would do nothing but level the playing field and protect citizens.

It's current 2013 status - FIVE years later?


STILL PENDING!

In Stark Comparison...


In 1986 The NRA proposed and lobbied for 'The Firearms Owners' Protection Act' - created with the sole purpose of decreasing the power and scope of 'The Gun Control Act of 1968' - AND - was somehow unaffected by 'The Brady Handgun Prevention Act of 1993'.

This bill proposed a daring and death-defying 'disappearing act' - to large chunks of 'The Gun Control Act'!

It allowed private citizens who were not 'engaged in the business' - to sell their personal firearms at gun shows - under the heading of 'Hobbyist'..

It reduced record keeping requirements of federally licensed dealers- specifically eliminating the need to keep ANY records of ammunition sold - and didn't implement ANY requirements for 'private' dealers or 'hobbyists'...

It disallowed for standard background checks or proper paperwork at gun shows..

It raised the burden of proof for gun law violations - making it far easier to get off - thereby retaining the weapon...

And finally - it EXPANDED a federal program that RESTORED the ability of convicted felons to possess firearms...

Even with gun control advocates AND national police organizations angrily shooting the Bill full of holes - IT WAS PASSED BY THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE - THE SAME YEAR IT WAS PROPOSED!

You do the math...

Ban Gun Shows - NOW...


Now, the loving 'mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters' that supposedly make up The NRA - would have you believe that that 'bad guys' will still have guns, even if - OR ESPECIALLY IF - gun control laws are implemented!

If true - gun shows are where they're getting them from!

And - it's the NRA that simplified the process on the bad guys behalf - and the Government that allowed - and continues to allow - them to do so!

I reiterate: TWO OUT OF EVERY FIVE GUNS SOLD in the United States are transacted WITHOUT a background check!

Thanks to the caring, 'family-oriented' NRA - and the complacent, turn-the-other-cheek elected officials - any hand that extends itself with the proper amount of CASH - can have a nice, shiny new gun placed in it!

A Fun Little Gun Show Ditty...


I'd like to close with a short little ditty that occurred at a gun show in Oklahoma - just last weekend...

Three suspiciously acting gentlemen bought a gun - and paid cash. Now, this is - of course - not unusual at gun shows and would have gone unnoticed if not for a sharp eyed police officer working security.

Now, suspecting an illegal sale of a firearm isn't enough 'cause' to allow for an officer of the law to detain such fine men. Oh, no!

This dedicated officer had to tail them - and was only authorized to stop them when they made an illegal left hand turn...

Turns out they had a SLEW of prior felony convictions and current charges - including possession of controlled substances, possession of illegal firearms, concealing stolen property, and obstructing an officer - just to name a few!

I'm guessing it's a very good thing that they took that bad left turn, eh?

And...I'm guessing that The NRA and it's kool-aid guzzling supporters - don't see any problem with this scenario whatsoever!


If it wasn't glaringly apparent as to who is pulling the actual strings (trigger), and running the actual show (guns) - it should be clear as blood now!

Have a great weekend, folks...

C'mon...Give it a SHOT!
C'mon...Give it a SHOT!

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    • profile image

      lovedoctor926 4 years ago

      What the fudge is going on here, I mean fact?? This is exactly what I'm thinking too. This is insane!! I agree with your views 100%. I also agree with this "Now, the loving 'mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters' that supposedly make up The NRA - would have you believe that that 'bad guys' will still have guns, even if - OR ESPECIALLY IF - gun control laws are implemented." This is an awesome hub and I will share it.

    • peoplepower73 profile image

      Mike Russo 4 years ago from Placentia California

      You go girl. I love your style...Im Karn Style. I don't care if you are from Canada eh! Voted up, Awesome, and Sharing.

    • billybuc profile image

      Bill Holland 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

      You go girl! This should bring out a few interesting comments. Now I have my entertainment for the night!

      Thanking you from the good ole' US of A....land of the free and home of the idiots!

      love you oodles and gobs

      bill

    • HLPhoenix profile image

      HLPhoenix 4 years ago

      Fact: The Second Amendment didn't apply to the States until 2010... Fact: The Supreme Court made the ownership of 'handguns' IN THE HOME protected under the 2nd Amendment in 2008... and in Dicta the Court allows for the Regulation of even 'handguns' in public places and specifically 'schools.' That is the Supreme Ct my friend...

      Fact: all your gun rights and all the fighting have taken place in the States under State Law, none of it made it to the Supremes... But, coming soon to a place near you THE SECOND AMENDMENT... and a lot of things are going to change. :) and probably no one will be happy.

      P.S. I too was from Canada... but I immigrated and went to Law School here... gotta love the Constitution... that old NRA it's been lying to you about the 2nd Amendment... they NEVER challenge gun laws to the Supremes... they just buy Congress.

    • FyrFytr234 profile image

      FyrFytr234 4 years ago

      @will. Fact 1....So what? We as Americans have been dictating our ideas and ideals around the world for decades now. Have you forgotten that little tidbit? Apparently so.

      Fact 2. The Second Amendment was written a LONG time ago...in a different time, with different issues, and different problems. Many of our laws are antiquated and are in dire need of revision. Unless you think the British are coming back to start a revolution...or the Native Americans are going to attack your fort.

    • pagesvoice profile image

      Dennis L. Page 4 years ago from New York/Pennsylvania border

      Excellent article Ms. L. There are so many quotes I can think of after reading your piece. My first one is from the movie "A Few Good Men." Jack Nicholson says to Tom Cruise, "The truth! You can't handle the truth!" I am also reminded of a long ago TV show called "Dragnet" starring Jack Webb as Sgt. Joe Friday. I can hear him saying to you, "The facts ma'am...just give me the facts." Well, you have done a fine job on your homework and research.

      Many decades ago while working in uniform I clearly recall a group of British women pointing and staring at me. Finally, a 20 something female, giggling like a school girl approached and asked if she could have her picture taken with me. I asked why? Her response was simply that they were not used to seeing people carry a sidearm. Of course I obliged her, but it did give me pause way back then.

      A few days ago I heard an interesting commentary on how we should start to frame the argument for better control over the type of weapons sold and how to better regulate gun shows. The person speaking pointed out how that by just mentioning "gun control reform" many people cling to the Constitution and shut down their minds. Instead this person said we should start framing the debate on "gun safety" thereby removing any fear of violating legitimate gun owners' rights. I know it is all semantics, but there is a mentality in this country that I certainly don't understand and anything we can do to change the views of some, will hopefully save lives.

      I look forward to reading what others have to say in response to this well written article.

    • Deborah Brooks profile image

      Deborah Brooks Langford 4 years ago from Brownsville,TX

      well I am from the US.. and I hate guns.. every time more children get murdered or people trying to watch a movie.. because the bad guy has a gun.. I am so sick of it all

      blessings

      Debbie

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      Fact: Nearly 70% of all gun murders are committed by inner city minorities in neighborhoods where law abiding citizens are all but banned from owning a gun.

      Fact: If you are not black or Hispanic, not a criminal, not suicidal, not a cop, and not a drug user or dealer, your chances of being shot in the US are almost zero.

    • Wrath Warbone profile image

      Terry Chestnutt 4 years ago from Cleveland, Ohio

      I don't really have a gun but I don't really want the Government and the Corporation to have them and not the citizens. Criminals will get their guns whether they are illegal or not and the kind of guy who goes postal because of bath salts is that kind of guy often times, but not always. A good citizen at such a scene knowledgeable about guns could save the day so don't make it impossible for such a man to intervene. It is not the gun. It is the kind of guy that makes the difference, in a lot of cases, and you can't keep that kind a guy from getting his guns, or his bath salts. The idea that such things make you cool comes from a lot of clever and powerful marketing piggybacked on popular music. Many have been screwed over royally because they don't know a marketing campaign when they see one. The guitar player cares about showcasing his art, at any cost, not about what he has to sale you to get his art out there. Such guys are often BRILLIANT, and desperately want to demonstrate their amazing musicianship and composition skills first and foremost. Please stay away from bath salts even if you think it unlikely for you to do harm. It is a matter of brain chemistry and not about your level of self control. It can happen. You don't want to wake up with blood all over your hands. Even though it was the bath salts people will not accept that as an explanation. No way.

    • FyrFytr234 profile image

      FyrFytr234 4 years ago

      Lol at the first thing you pointed out was that ImKarn is from Canada, not the US. If that's the first thing that came to mind as a rebuttal....you need better "game".

    • carol7777 profile image

      carol stanley 4 years ago from Arizona

      Too easy to get a gun..and having one in possession leads to many temptations..True story...someone I knew..father gave her a gun because she lived along.. She got depressed because she was going to lose her house..guess what she killed herself...Not a pretty story.. No gun no death..I hate em..regardless of what anyone says.. You go Leslie friend.

    • profile image

      lovedoctor926 4 years ago

      Lol.. interesting..

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      There are 100,000,000 law abiding gun owners in the US, and armed Americans stop crimes every day, but they never make the news.

      They did not kill anyone at Sandy Hook, but they are being blamed by those who know nothing about it, but simply knee-jerk, and blame the NRA...like the author of this Hub

    • profile image

      SassySue1963 4 years ago

      Just so that I am clear, from reading this Hub, I'm gathering that the only thing you're really advocating here is getting rid of the gun shows? Is that correct?

      I don't think we have to get rid of them. I just think we have to require the same waiting periods, background checks, etc. We also need to have the same requirements for online purchases of guns. (one means that also has a loophole for those checks for some reason).

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      None of the restrictions favored by liberals have ever stopped a crime.

      Period.

      It all sounds good, but the Sandy Hook killer simply stole the guns he used, and that's the problem with laws...sadistic killers pay them no mind at all!

      Timothy McVeigh killed 19 tiny little pre-school babies with common fertilizer and diesel fuel. The worst school massacre ever was done with dynamite.

      The best we can hope to do is to learn how to profile potential mass killers and commit them before they can kill. Even that will not stop a sly and determined killer. Life has no guarantees.

    • TheManWithNoPants profile image

      TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

      Karn,

      I don't like nut jobs getting their hands on guns. I don't know how many people in this discussion have ever been shot. I have. I didn't like it either. Some people here may know that I was in the fugitive recovery business for a few years. Obviously, I own guns and I'm good with them. I've dealt with the people you heard about on the news, and I've met people who are so completely evil that they're not even human. I brought in a guy who murderd is girl friend, broke her cat's back over his knee and ate it while it was still alive in front of her child.

      We DO need to regulate gun shows I feel. But you have to be very careful how you handle the 2nd amendment. To the guy who thinks the Constitution is out dated ... No foreign country has ever breached our soil, and even Hitler acknowledged that a land invasion would be almost impossible because "Americans all have guns." No other country can make this claim. As you read this, there is a child somewhere in the world watching his or her family being butchered because they can't protect themselves from some thugs operating from a government gone wild.

      There is a very dangerous thing going on in our society. Actually, a lot of them. Kids and young adults are allowed to lock themselves up in their bedrooms for hours on end playing first shooter video games. Columbine, the cinema, shooting, the shooting here in Tucson, all had something in common. All these shooters were obsessed with first shooter video games like War Craft. I'm talking about computer screens for role models. We've got to do something about this as a nation. Evil people who need to kill will do so with or without guns.

      I mean no disrespect to anyone here, but this is a touchy subject with me. I agree with tightening up procedures for gun ownership, but I would urge everyone to not over simplify this thing. We really need to get down to the real problem in my opinion.

      Karn, this was exceptional and full of passion. I love passion whether I see eye to eye with a person or not. Thanks for getting this out here my friend!

      ~ jim

    • Mhatter99 profile image

      Martin Kloess 4 years ago from San Francisco

      Wayne LaPierre has made a very expensive mistake. Thank you for this.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      When it's easier to buy a gun than vote...we have a problem in America. For some reason, owning a gun trumps all other rights and feedoms. And it's usully those who are 1st to take away from someone else.

      I mean, you can own a gun....something that kills... But you can't say pee-pee on the radio.oh no, that's to offensive...my baby-ears can't handle it. And that was American Families, or Focus on the Family who did that. They keep crying "my America is gone"...BS. Their America lords it over everybody!

      My gun--leave me alone!

      Oh, but you can't handle having a baby right now? Too bad--do as I say!

      You want to keep the leaders you elected? Tough....I'm putting MY guys in.

      Want to VOTE in a presidential election> Too bad! You support the wrong candidate.

      But--you want to regulate, try and prevent maniacs getting their hands on 30-clip military rifles....Oh no you don't. That's MY right you're messing with.

      Ummm, knock knock....there are other people here besides you.....!

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      What's worse..is forcing people to be armed when they don't want to be! I glanced a title last night.."Alalbma signs law that teachers must be armed"...something... As always: FORCING their will on us by gvt decree. I'm sick of it.

    • phoenix2327 profile image

      Zulma Burgos-Dudgeon 4 years ago from United Kingdom

      Well this was an eye-opener. I didn't know gun shows were exempted from so many regulations that gun shops were subject too. So the 'bad guys' don't just get their weapons from other 'bad guys.' They can get them from the 'good guys' too.

    • chip1775 profile image

      Brett Wood 4 years ago from Atlanta

      There is a reason that citizens have a constitutional right to guns in this country. There is a reason that it came second. Besides freedom of speech, it is the most important right a citizen has. The framers of the Constitution understood that the people needed to retain the right to talk and organize if the government got too bad, and the people needed weapons in order to stop it. I'm not some crazy person who thinks we should overthrow the government, but I do believe that a government can get out of control and the Constitution was made to protect us from that or atleast give us the ability to protect ourselves. I don't like gun violence any more than anyone else, but we can't put the cart in front of the horse. Any reduction in our already waning liberties is a travesty to those who fought and bled to make this country what it is. The Constitution, in its time, was a radical and forward thinking document, written by men influenced by the great philosophical minds of history. It is the foundation of what we have built through the centuries. We must respect that.

    • profile image

      arb 4 years ago

      Well dear Leslie, you open a can of worms and the it appears the fish are biting. Why are we Americans so emotional about guns? Perhaps that is indicative of the real problem. We are so entrenched in "rights" we forget to ask, what is right or wrong about our "rights". What was right 250 years ago may well have changed since then, but, I will leave that for another day. I would however, make correction to my esteemed colleague, Will Starr, whom I reserve some hub respect for. Although we would like to think that most homicides in this country are comitted under the guise of gangs, drugs and our usual scapegoat (minorities and the poor) it is far from the actual truth. 63.4% of all homicides in America are perpetrated by family, friends and acquaintances and 35.2% the result of an argument over money or property. There were 269 homicides last year comitted justifiably (self defense) by civilians out of 12,657. 12 women killed attackers in self defense. Obviously, 310 millions guns in America to stop 269 attacks is some what over armed when we consider that the other approx. 12,400 were killed outside of self defense. As far as protecting our families, 73% of murdered women were killed by an acquaintance (57% by an intimate) and 2.7% of children under 5 were killed by strangers. 61% of our children under 5 were killed by their parents. 36.5% by family, friends and acquaintances. Although we are buying guns for the right reason, the truth is, we are using them for the wrong reason. I am not anti gun, but, I am also not blind. We have a problem Houston; we better figure out how to fix it. If we don't, this pro gun advocate will be the first in line to ban guns in America. BTW, the paranoia that drives anyone to defend themselves over the possibility of a corrupt Government is insanity. Are we really going to take on the United States military complex with assault rifles and hand guns. Were all watching too many movies! John Wayne didn't really clean up the west single handedly, the bad guys actually can hit what they are aiming at in real life and oh yea, the military really can take you and your assault rifle out from any distance.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      How about gun insurance...I've seen that idea tossed around. We have car insurance, house insurance.....LIABILITY for owning something that kills in an instant...makes sense to me.

      After all, if you can take away someone's life and liberty with it: shouldn't we be protected-- Constitutionally?

    • TheManWithNoPants profile image

      TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

      Shiningirlisheyes,

      Here are the stats ...

      Country Total firearm-related death rate Homicides Suicides Unintentional Undetermined Year Sources and notes

      El Salvador 50.36 50.36 NA NA NA 2009 OAS 2011[1]

      Jamaica 47.44 47.44 NA NA NA 2009 OAS 2011[1]

      Honduras 46.70 46.70 NA NA NA 2007 OAS 2011[1]

      Guatemala 38.52 38.52 NA NA NA 2009 OAS 2011[1]

      Swaziland 37.16 37.16 NA NA NA 2004 UNODC 2006[1]

      Colombia 28.11 27.10 0.87 0.14 NA 2009 UNODC 2011 [2]

      Brazil 19.01 18.10 0.73 0.18 NA 2008 UNODC 2011[3]

      Panama 12.92 12.92 NA NA NA 2010 OAS 2011[1]

      Mexico 11.14 10.00 0.67 0.47 NA 2010 UNODC 2011[4]

      United States 10.2 3.7 6.1 0.2 0.1 2009 OAS 2012[5][6]

      Philippines 9.46 9.46 NA NA NA 2002 UNODC 2002[7]

      South Africa 9.41 NA NA NA NA 2012 UNODC 2012[8] & Stats SA[9]

      Montenegro 8.55 2.06 6.49 NA NA 2009 WHO 2012[10]

      Paraguay 7.35 7.35 NA NA NA 2000 UNODC 2000[11]

      Nicaragua 7.14 7.14 NA NA NA 2007 OAS 2011[1]

      Argentina 5.65 3.00 2.01 0.64 NA 2001 2008 UNODC 2011[12]

      Canada 2.13 0.5 1.79 0.28 0.01 2011

    • always exploring profile image

      Ruby Jean Fuller 4 years ago from Southern Illinois

      Leslie, How many times have i begged you to move to the US? If you were here, the NRA would crumble in fear. I love the fact that you state FACTS. Gun control is coming up soon in our newly reelected President's agenda. I wonder if the GOP will buckle again, appears they are running scared, esp. Mitch McConnell of Ky. Ashley Judd will make a run for his seat and i hear she has a good chance, remember Mitch said in 2008 that his top priority was to see that President Obama was a one term president, lordy, let the good times roll!!! Keep writing..Love ya..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Pagesvoice: Have i told you lately how much i respect you and how much i appreciate your support? Well - just in case: I respect you very much and i deeply appreciate your support...lol...

      yes...words are quite interesting - the world is being beiged down - militaries don't kill civilian women and children - they 'have collateral damage'...soldiers don't get shell-shocked anymore - they get ptsd...somehow brutally murdered folks have 'passed', and garbage men are sanitary somethings..

      yep - don't want any rough edges, ya know...that might wake someone UP!

      sigh..

      Thanks for the great comment, D - please drop by a little later - the comments are the mostest fun, eh?

      xx

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @DeborahBrooks: Lol...short and sweet, my friend - Here, here!

      I'm sick of it too - it's hard to believe that some think it's all 'collateral damage' from their RIGHT!

      What about everybody else's rights? I believe it's my right to not walk down a street or a mall in fright..

      And..it's my right to not be in the wrong place at the wrong time to catch a stray bullet..

      HEY - did ya hear - there's been ANOTHER mass murder in Aurora Colorado - ya know - where the threatre murders happened.? Oh, yeah - now...they're happening so often - they're doubling up on cities...

      the NRA would argue that there should have been MORE guns there - NOT less..

      IT's so assbackwards - it makes my head spin - but - i guess that's cause i'm canadian and i 'don't understand' the 'american way'....OMG PUKE!

      Really? My fear is that the americans don't understand the american way anymore...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @WrathWarbone: Terry - omg...you're obsessed with this bath salts stuff! I hope it's not cause YOU're hooked on it, my friend! This is not the first time you've mentioned it - and i'm starting to worry!

      Seriously...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Carol7777: Oh, Carol...that is a horrible story! Her father...omg...i can't imagine..

      When one plus one starts to equal THREE - i believe it's time to FIX it! Something needs to be FIXED here - and - standing stubbornly upon a 2nd amendment that has NOTHING to do with what i'm talking about here - is just...petrifying, frankly..

      Guessing they're aiming to bring the american mantra to fruition - Not the 'United we Stand' part, but - the 'Divided we Fall' part..

      Thanks for wading into the muck my friend!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @SassySue1963: You're clear, Sue! This post has NOTHING to do with the second amendment and those who keep referring to it - don't have a freaking clue what it says!

      You're right - we don't have to get rid of them if they're regulated - and if private 'hobbyists' aren't allowed to sell anymore!

      I agree re; internet - this was supposed to be inclusive of all private sales of guns...

      Thanks for the conversation..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Themanwithnopants: Hello, my friend - nice to see you! Hope you had a happy christmas and a beautiful new year! I sooo appreciate your ability to communicate civilly without bullying or attacking! People don't have to agree on everything - we just have to agree to RESPECT each others opinions and be open minded to change. After that - we can agree to disagree...

      Fortunately - on this hub - you and i are not that far apart, if at all. That is a disgusting shocking story you told here and clearly - you're been around guns, respect them, and know how to use them! Bravo!

      You agree we need gun show regulation that is equal with any other means of attaining a weapon..

      On the other hand - you say no foreign country has ever breached your soil and speak of hitler..

      Well..Hitler was a looooong time ago - and many things have changed..

      My fear is that NO foreign country NEED breach your shores, my friend - you're doing a fine job of killing each other without anyone else's help!

      Hey, guess what? Nothing much, really! Just ANOTHER mass murder in AURORA COLORADO - you remember that place, doncha? Yeah...there was just that ugly mass murder there a few months back..

      Welll...this one doesn't 'COMPARE' - ONLY 4 dead - including the shooter...i wonder if it will make the news, because - i predict a time when these are SO common - that the 'little ones' WONT...

      That's what i see coming down the pipe...ER...BARREL!

      Thanks for the kind remarks about the write, sir! Very much appreciated..

      I'm gonna assume you didn't post it to your FB page?

      LOL...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
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      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @MHatter99: Wayne LaPierre IS a mistake - all on his very own! You're welcome M...xx

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: You send your sons and daughters into BATTLE - but - they're not responsible enough to have a DRINK! It's f***ing crazed - i don't know who's steering the boat, but - he either has no sense of direction -or - he's purposely taking us where we don't want to go!

      Thanks for the great analogies, Chris!

      I adore an intelligent voice of reason..

      (knock, knock!!)

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: I wonder what they'll say when a kid gets the teachers gun and kills the class..

      WHAT THEN NRA?

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Phoenix2327: Basically, my friend - the 'bad guys' are getting their guns courtesy of the 'mommies, daddies, sons, and daughters' that make up the NRA - and your elected - and NOT elected - politicians - PERIOD!

      Please tell me why Obama hasn't signed that little piece of legislation that's been rotting in political purgatory - YET? WHAT are they waiting for? I'm thinking they're waiting for 'permission' from the NRA - and we all know what that means..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Chip1775: Hi, Chip - it's nice to meet you, but - i'm afraid you're not going to like my response to your comment..

      Cause...it goes something like this: REALLY, Chip??? Is that your explanation as to why america should arm themselves to the teeth? You're waiting for your government to turn on you - or do something 'bad'???

      MY friend - they ARE turning on you as we speak - and IF - BIG IF - they EVER should attack the citizens of America - your guns aren't gonna do squat for you anyway! The founding fathers had no fricking CLUE what weaponry was coming down the pipe ...but YOU DO! THINK, Man!

      Somewhere way down deep you know this is an absolutely ridiculous argument in the face of REALITY - if the government turns on the people - the people will die - no matter how many guns they have...

      In the meantime, sir - CHILDREN ARE DYING EVERY DAY! FROM THESE GUNS THAT ARE SO 'PROTECTIVE".

      Please - take a look at the top picture again Chip - and tell me what you see...

      CHILDREN ARE DYING! Where are energies being expended? What's the REAL agenda - and come on - take another look at your weak reasoning for arming up...is that really the best you can do?

      If so - it's time to change sides sir - cause your reasoning holds no water...ONLY BULLETS!

      Personally, Chip - i'd put the welfare of the people TODAY over some ridiculous MAYBE down the road that won't matter anyways! You'll be dead...perhaps they'll put all the guns in the coffins? Sweet!

      LOL..

      Please Chip - come again? i'm always available for stimulating conversation...(or dirty jokes tooooo...lol)..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Manwithnopants: Break this down better please?

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Your wish is my command . . . abracadabra . . . charity and tolerance cures ignorance and fear . . .

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3aPkzHpT8M&fea...

    • Credence2 profile image

      Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast)

      Thanks Leslie, for your observation, how is everything in the land of Nanook of the North?

      For the rightwingers and people of a more moderate persuasion, questioning the relevance of the Second Amendment in today's environment is akin to touching God's eyeball.

      But whether the gun people like it or not changes are coming as I have no reason to believe that what happened in Conn. last month could not be an event every other weekend.

      In my concern on this issue, I address many of your points in an article of my own.

      All weapons are to be registered and when they change hands will be recorded and background checks required of any recipient of a firearm, period. The second amendment will remain but everything surrounding it will be tightened up.

      Don't be intimidated by the rightwing yanks, there are many of us of the enlightened side of the political divide that understand and appreciate your point of view.

    • chip1775 profile image

      Brett Wood 4 years ago from Atlanta

      If your argument is that children are dying then I agree with you, they are and have. Where we differ is in the solution. I mention that because I am as concerned as you are. I just don't think your giving thought to the entire issue. What about the fact that these actions are happening in gun free zones, place where people are known to not have the possibility of carrying a weapon? What about the fact that as these things happen, the inevitable media coverage attracts more actions in the same manner? Down here in the south, someone got the idea to jump off a bridge in traffic and it was covered alot in Atlanta by the media. Not long after it several other people began committing suicide in this manner. I think social trends should definitely be considered, but what to do? Can we really remove guns from our society? If you think my argument for guns is ridiculous wouldn't you agree that removing guns is ridiculous as well? Are you aware of the vast quantity of unregistered guns in this country, owned by honest citizens(not counting the dishonest)? Something else to consider. There is a county in Georgia(can't remember the name but it's in Kennesaw north of Atlanta) that passed a law that every family must have a gun in their home. Research it and look at the crime statistics before and after. Sometimes empowering citizens to protect themselves is the best deterrent. Why can't we search for answers to problems that satisfy all Americans without distorting or completely destroying our Constitution? Oh, and I love your response. We don't have to agree to be friends, just make sure you leave your feelings at the house. ;)

    • chip1775 profile image

      Brett Wood 4 years ago from Atlanta

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Chip1775: Love that you came back...(for more...lol)..

      Please Chip - listen to yourself for just a moment - what you are presenting - is that EVERY GUN FREE ZONE AMMO UP..

      Do you have any idea what you're saying? Every mall, school, restaurant, theatre, park coffee house - THINK about it! These sorts of people are cowards - and sure as hell aren't gonna be storming a military base or a cop shop, but - to think that gun against gun is the best solution - is just asking for a bigger problem..

      BTW - another mass killing in Aurora, CO - an ARMED state, me believes, yes? OH, YEAH! workin' just fine there - if the government turns on us - i suggest they not go to aurora...lol..

      OK..i'm a sarcastic bitch - bit dont take it personally - it's just my nature..sigh..lol..

      Do you see the INSANITY of passing laws that INSIST there be guns in homes? WHERE do we live - it's not the wild wild west Chip - and it never will be again - THE GUNS ARE TOO BIG!

      Drop the romance and the moot reasoning - why not try a NEW perspective - LESS GUNS IS BETTER - kinda like 32oz slurpees and candy cigarettes...

      ya know?

      btw..the simplest way i can see of not 'disturbing' the ancient bones of the 2nd amendment - muskets and all- is just to ban the ammo..

      did you know that the NRA made it possible for dealers to not even have to record ANY ammo sales?

      wtf, chip - i mean really, it's off the wall, and people obediently keep drinking the koolaid - it makes NO sense!

      But...what do i know? I'm just a dumb canuck...sigh..

    • profile image

      lovedoctor926 4 years ago

      Lol.

    • chip1775 profile image

      Brett Wood 4 years ago from Atlanta

      Why not remove the gun free zone tag and give 2 or 3 volunteer teachers permission to carry concealed if they accept the proper training. I think the illusion of an armed defense is enough to stop this. But, I don't think you read about Kennesaw, the crime rate dropped to half. Did you read it? I know I'm just an ol' redneck down here, but everyone around here has guns and none of us run around with guns on our hip like the wild west and I haven't seen any high noon shootouts in the neighberhood. A passing squirrel might be in trouble if he gets in to my dad's fruit trees though, lol.

    • chip1775 profile image

      Brett Wood 4 years ago from Atlanta

      One other question. If you and I were in your local coffee shop and an armed madman came in, would you be mad at me if I had a concealed weapon with me?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Sounds almost like guns are a cultural thing....or a religion. Some people in certain areas use them, have them, always have, always will.

      But that's not everybody...and the problem here, imo, is the attitude that since certain people like them, everybody must.

      IE: I dont' like swearing, so no one can swear.

      I don't like abortion, so no on can have them.

      I like guns, so everybody else must too.......

      Well, I don't. And I don't want them in my kids school, in my kids whereabouts, ever.

      And now they 're suggesting laws to arm teachers.......what? NO!

      ‏@kurteichenwald

      If gunners would push 1. Training, 2. Required methods of security and 3. RESPECT for power of weapons, we wouldnt have a lot to discuss.

      Stop acting like it's the only god-given right. Because people have no problem butting into other god-given rights---like what I do with my own body, and how I use my speech.

      Your liberty ends where my nose begins. An armed citizenry scares me to death, and makes it a war-zone rather than a civilization, IMO.

    • chip1775 profile image

      Brett Wood 4 years ago from Atlanta

      There is definitely a culture thing there, and no you have the right to own or not own, and the choice to put them in schools should absolutely be a local thing not a national thing. But remember the flip side to your statement, "I like gun, so everybody else must too...". I repect your beliefs, do you respect mine?

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: by that logic Chris - how bout MARRIAGE insurance? LOL...it's plenty dangerous - and it can kill ya - but, sadly - not in an instant...Noooo...it takes an eternity...

      LOL...just being the bitchy sarcastic girl i am proud to be...xx

      actually - that's not a bad idea..

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      The NRA gets most of it funding from arms dealers and manufacturers. I think these gun shows are obsccene, there was a line 3 blocks long to get in the last one here a couple of weeks ago, and no cameras allowed. Gee, I wonder why?

      Fact: You nailed another one.

    • cynthtggt profile image

      cynthtggt 4 years ago from New York, NY

      I saw a movie once where only the police and military had guns. It was called "Schindler's List."

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      Gee, some people just can't stand the truth about our country, but it needs to be told anyway.

    • TheManWithNoPants profile image

      TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

      Karn

      My NRA buddy's won't like me, but I don't care. I agree with the subject of this hub and that gun shows need to be regulated just like anyone else selling guns. The rest is simply my opinion about where the comments have lead. For what it's worth, I've lived and worked south of the tracks. I'm a good guy with a gun who would be a dead guy without it - along with several other people. A bad guy with a gun is dead instead. The dead guy's gun was stolen, mine was purchased legally and I had a lot of cool training. He didn't. Things worked out.

      The problem isn't guns, it's assholes and sickos having them. If we could eliminate all guns magically, we'd still have massacares and murder. Machetes, knives, poison, explosives ... You name it, and it can be obtained by someone bent on murder. We're not looking at the real problem. There is a social problem that's getting ignored by telling ourselves that if we can get rid of guns, we'll solve the problem. (or even make a dent)

      Hand guns HAVE been used in bursts of anger or rage in a home where a fire arm exists of course, and there are people who'd be alive today if it never existed. I don't deny that. But you have to be careful because there's a delicate balance here. As I pointed out above, our second amendment has thwarted tyrants decisions to attack our mainland. They're something bigger than that here though - if you think about it. If we did away with the second amendment, we'd inherit a whole new set of dynamics which we aren't prepared to handle. I'm just saying people need to discuss the cause and FULL effect. No one's doing that here. It's not about a bunch of dumb ass red necks getting drunk and shooting beer cans and tossing off looking at their purdy new Deer Rifle. It's about the inherit evil that's growing in our society. It's about jerks tying a frail young man to a fence in Wyoming and beating him into a coma and leaving him hanging there in the winter cold ... just because he's gay. It's about creeps dragging a man behind their truck until his body parts fall off ... just because he was born black. This is an evil world with some very cool people sprinkled all over the place. You have to be careful when you take away guns.

      I'm just talking. I consider you a hub friend, and I just think a lot of people aren't looking at the big picture. This can't be simplified. Who know's? I'm just a piano player in a whore house. lol Okay. I wrote a couple of books her without meaning to. This was a good hub, obviously. I don't like seeing everyone pile on Will though. You don't need anybody's help. You handle things just fine by yourself, girl!

      I'll give it up now and let the other people talk.

      ~ jim

    • Jillian Barclay profile image

      Jillian Barclay 4 years ago from California, USA

      Dear ImKarn23,

      Fact: I am a U.S. citizen

      Fact: The second amendment does not give you the absolute right to arm yourself with any and all weapons that you might think are appropriate- I prefer rocket launchers for those damn deer that move too fast- but I can't have one-

      Wah!

      By the way, just in terms of comparison- if I have a cold and go to the pharmacy for some Sudafed, the pharmacy checks my ID and enters my name on a National Database to make sure that I don't buy too much. There is a monthly limit on Sudafed and I could be arrested for going over the limit...

      But I can buy as many damn guns as I want to at a gun show...

      And, Frog- Far be it from me to suggest you are rude, but aren't you the same 'prince' who told me not to vote with my reproductive organs?

      Your rudeness suggests that you are clearly no prince...

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      Frog,

      This is a typical ImKarn Hub...completely devoid of facts and thoughtful arguments, but chuck full of hyperbole, false claims, ignorance, sarcasm, ridicule, and personal attacks.

      She and the other leftists here obviously know absolutely nothing about the NRA, our Constitution, and our right to keep and bear arms, but that's what those who would strip us of our rights like about them...their useful ignorance.

      But what should we expect from a Canadian busybody, meddling in things that are actually none of her business?

    • always exploring profile image

      Ruby Jean Fuller 4 years ago from Southern Illinois

      Leslie, I forgot to tell you that i am sharing this all over God's green acres. Not on Facebook, i detest that site, but i belong to the ones who really care...

    • HLPhoenix profile image

      HLPhoenix 4 years ago

      For the Frog-Prince and others who Talk about 2nd Amendment Rights... the following is taken from a hub I just published...

      In 2008... Skalia for the Court said: "The Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home." That was made completely clear. OUTSIDE THE HOME... NOT SO CLEAR.

      The Supreme Court Decision points out... "Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues."

      There is your 2nd Amendment Law... which only the Supreme Court can interpret ...you could learn lots more if you read the Supremes (or someone who has) instead of the NRA who no longer represents most of its members but rather the Gun Lobby. Most gun owners are responsible... and understand... as the Supreme Court DOES... that limits are a good thing and don't threaten ANYONES legitimate right to own arms for legitimate purposes.

      Saying something LOUDLY doesn't make it anymore true... FACTS make things true no matter how many people believe otherwise... or do you still believe in the 'Flat Earth' theory?

      ImKarin.. has done her homework faithfully, and while her 'fire' may upset some... her FACTS are impeccable.

      You really need to start reading and stop foaming at the mouth.

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      Fact: NRA get the bulk of its income from arms dealers and manufacturers.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      BTW, the first three words of the Constitution are "We the People' in huge letters. That document is ours, and it was written for us and by us, so don't tell me that only the SCOTUS can know what it means. The Heller decision said that the Second Amendment meant exactly what is said and what most Americans believed all along...that it protects an individual right to keep and bear arms.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "Fact: NRA get the bulk of its income from arms dealers and manufacturers."

      Source? Mediamatters?

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      Does it matter really? You would not believe it any more than I am willing to take what the esteemed organiazation says in its puff pieces. But try a book called "Confessons of a Gun Lobbyist" written by a former rep of the NRA.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      "Does it matter really? "

      Ir matters a great deal, and I'm calling you out on it. Prove it, or admit that you cannot.

    • TheManWithNoPants profile image

      TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

      xstatic.

      That is a blanket statement with no source to back it up, because it isn't true. Try this ...

      NRA Yearly income -205 million of which 15% is from arms dealers like Ruger and Remington. This hub is about gun shows not being regulated. Arms dealers don't depend on gun shows for income. Come on man ...

    • TheManWithNoPants profile image

      TheManWithNoPants 4 years ago from Tucson, Az.

      I might suggest that we consider regulating the government. That Gun Runner thing didn't work out very well. 1,700 fire arms, most of which were assault rifles - sold to the worst scum on earth / courtesy of our government. Hundreds of Mexicans and one of our own have died as a result so far, and the body count will never stop because we'll never get the guns back. Gun shows? I dunno. I never bought any of my weapons at one. Just looked around. What's the number Will?

      % age wise, it's got to be tiny I'd imagine.

    • teaches12345 profile image

      Dianna Mendez 4 years ago

      You have generated lots of interesting conversation, ImKarn. I don't know what the answer is to all of it, but I do hope that the screening process for guns can prevent selling them to people who are better off with plain old water pistols. We have had enough tragedy for a lifetime involving guns.

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      For ten year old info, that link is very helpful.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Xstatic...sigh..i so appreciate your boldly wading into the muck and doing the right thing! the problem is that the squeaky wheel gets the oil - and these extremists SQUEAK while we - the moderates - go back to a balanced life..

      Well..i intend to SQUEAK - and i need (you need, we need) OTHERS to SQUEAK as well...i'm already not happy with the reduction of outrage and discussion re; gun control.

      The NRA runs over us - and we run away..

      Except - what they say is NOT THE TRUTH - does that matter?

      The climate has turned - and if we run away now - we will have lost an opportunity, i believe..

      Stand with me...let's change the world and not waste precious time on the hopeless...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @cynthtggt: Soooo...your point is? You don't agree that gun shows should be regulated the same as gun stores?

      okay...

      (??????)

    • HLPhoenix profile image

      HLPhoenix 4 years ago

      Mr. Starr, as to your Individual Right granted you in Heller... you are very correct... that is a Fact. For the first time we really do have an Individual Right to own a gun, under the Second Amendment. And that was a HUGE change in 2nd amendment interpretation... and just 4 years ago!

      Prior to 2008 we only thought we had a personal right... actually all any of us had was a 'communal' right... and it was tied to the concept of the Militia... which gave it a military significance... But now that the two concepts have been split... the militia will quietly fade away.... and the Supremes will turn their attention to what are legitimate purposes of gun ownership.

      A close reading of Heller... with a dash of McDonald should give you a pretty good idea of what will and won't be CONSTITUTIONAL... up the pike.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Arb: Thank you dear sweet Arb - for bringing the ACTUAL FACTS to the table - something your esteemed 'friend' will starr knows absolutely nothing about!

      i agree with you 100% - using the excuse that america is arming up IN CASE the government turns on them - is absolutely delusional..

      Can we at least agree that when the founding fathers made the constitution - there were no airplanes - altho i know some will tell me that they foresaw EVERYTHING - including Bushman AR-15/16 semi/auto rifles..etc..

      USE YOUR BRAINS PEOPLE - the government would crush you - AND YOUR PRECIOUS GUNS - like bugs..

      You might last 10 days ala the warsaw ghetto - but - you got NUTHIN'..

      How's about reaching out and grabbing hold of a little reality - CHILDREN ARE DYING - and will continue to in greater and greater number..

      and - they haven't said ONE single word about that - notice? THAT"S not their concern..

      i also find it interesting that these extreme right winger types have NOTHING to do with the HOW movement - a hub movement started by Billybuc to GIVE BACK...to do small random acts of kindness..

      NOT A SINGLE ONE OF EM...

      What is it about these people and their every man for themselves attitude - that's NOT what America was built on...

      (lol..omg...sorry for the vent, but - i figure you can handle it, my friend...)

      I

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Chip1775: First of all - i'd be pissed that HE HAD a gun...

      then i'd have no guarantee that YOU would be willing or able to wrest it from whence YOUR gun rests, unsafety it, aim straight - and not kill anyone ELSE in the meantime - OR draw his attention so he can shoot us first..

      just cause people carry a gun doesn't mean they're not gonna freeze up, piss their pants - and dive under the nearest table - come ON!

      You people REALLY do believe this is still the wild wild west...

      The same scenario can go many different ways my friend - but making it more difficult - if not impossible - to get these weapons in the first place IS a good place to start, NO?

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Alwaysexploring: Thank you dear Ruby...

      May i ask what places you belong to?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "What is it about the Constitution you would like to know?"

      "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

      If I feel insecure because my hot-head neighbor has a gun.....isn't he violating my constitutional rights to be secure in my home?

      Or, do I have to wait til he gets drunk and practices target shooting near my kids?

      Also:

      "to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

      How does that translate to conceal and carry in a BAR? Or, to walking down a street armed and loaded..."because it's my right"?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      and chip---"I repect your beliefs, do you respect mine?"

      Yes--until they over-run into my constitutionally protected rights to life and liberty. When guns run-amuk, and shootings are taken as "Oh well, the price of freedom".....then freedom has become the tyranny!!

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Do I have the right to be free from your guns?

    • phoenix2327 profile image

      Zulma Burgos-Dudgeon 4 years ago from United Kingdom

      Thank you, Leslie, for reminding us that children are dying. Is having the right to own a gun really more important than the rights of these children to life?

    • Credence2 profile image

      Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast)

      To cynthtggt

      You said:

      "Finally, even though the NRA is powerful lobbying group, most constitutional proponents would argue successfully that the government would prefer we ALL had no guns, which assumes more government control in our lives that We, the People, do not want."

      Those are commonly held beliefs within the rightwing community, thats all. It represents pure paranoia. Following the thread, without mentioning names, it is obvious which side of the ideological debate has initiated the conflict and shown itself to be the more overbearing and boorish in its behavior.

      Thanks, Credence2

    • ib radmasters profile image

      ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

      The problem is not the guns, and government has not been able to control the use of any thing that people want.

      Alcohol

      Tobacco

      Prositution

      Pornography

      Marijuana

      Illegal Drugs

      There will always be an available black market for any controlled or prohibited item.

      BTW, how can you call 2 out of every five guns sold is without documentation. Where is the document trail to make this "Fact"?

    • HLPhoenix profile image

      HLPhoenix 4 years ago

      Will Starr... McDonald v. Chicago was a case where a State TRIED to ban gun ownership... by insisting on Licensing and then NOT providing places within reasonable distance to obtain those licences... THE STATE LOST....The Supremes upheld the right to hand gun ownership... and that while the State had the right to require licenses... they had to do so equitably. You can't keep citing... Government Banning things when the Government LOST the case. It is now UNCONSTITUTIONAL to ban hand guns... other guns, well time will tell. The fight actually has just begun. Because until Heller the Court was quiet on our 2nd Amendment Rights for almost 200 years. While the NRA was not.

    • cynthtggt profile image

      cynthtggt 4 years ago from New York, NY

      Credence 2 - There are more "controls" and "collectiveness" that has been nurtured by the left for decades in both education and in instilling all manner of hate towards religion. What is happening is a social reconstruction designed to make individuals feel inferior to a purportedly "collective" good which history has shown over and over again results in societal breakdown. The medical community is a good microsmic example of what government control results in http://www.examiner.com/article/guns-do-not-kill-p...

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      The left likes to claim that Heller granted us our right to arms, or that the Constitution granted us our rights, but our Founding Fathers had the good sense to note that:

      "..they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.."

      Rights granted by government can also be taken away by government, but rights endowed by our Creator (or nature, if you prefer) are permanent. A careful reading of the Constitution reveals that no rights are granted! All rights are presumed to preexist the Constitution. The Constitution simply protects them.

    • shiningirisheyes profile image

      Shining Irish Eyes 4 years ago from Upstate, New York

      Will - I did not say urban or inner city. I copy and pasted your words verbatim. It is a prejudice statement either way.

    • cynthtggt profile image

      cynthtggt 4 years ago from New York, NY

      Credence, another thing: I don't own a gun, I don't even belong to a church. I am a private person. I wanted to write a play. I was an actress for 10 years and studied writing, particularly screenwriting, in college. For 25 years I worked as a legal secretary to support myself as I pursued my goal. I had then and have a few close friends but I am not part of any group, and neither do I bowl on Tuesday nights. Nevertheless, in and around 1995 I was suddenly hated by my peers in the office (I work in NYC). I never spoke about political beliefs or religious beliefs. I kept quiet and did my job. At a prominent financial institution, a table of 10 in the cafeteria - all male - shouted out, "I hate Christians with their good looks and money." One of the men went "Shhhhhhhhhhhh"! and then the whole table looked at me. First of all, I grew up in poverty. My father made $14K a year and supported 6 children. And neither do I consider myself "good-looking" as I was never even asked to my high school prom. But this was a "group" that when I was growing up I remember no man (and even some women) could be found in such a group setting. In a office conference meeting in whose attendance were global offices of the company, the president made his voice against Christianity and then President Bush (who had been in office only 1 month) with a quip about his machismo voice and stupidity and religious beliefs that brought a roar of laughter from thousands in the conference. This was frightening as hell. It reminded me of The Third Reich. What followed was the hatred of me that almost errupted into violence that was only staved off by the filing of court documents. I just want you to know Credence that on the basis of how I "look" I am hated. For up until this time, I had never spoke about anything I believed, and, frankly, I did not have an opinion as I was absorbed in pursuing my dreams. The FBI told me it was my "gender" but then on another call I was told it was my "Christianity" that when I asked how do they know I am Christian was told that I "looked" it. So, violence against me and blacklisting against me because of what I look like? I was a liberal before but no longer. Finally, I know a liberal woman who hated Timothy McVeigh like everybody else, but after 9/11 told me she was worried about the "cats" without home at ground zero. When I asked her "What about the people"? she replied, "I hate people." My legs went weak because she said this only two months after the deaths of 3,000. Paranoia? I don't think so.

    • shiningirisheyes profile image

      Shining Irish Eyes 4 years ago from Upstate, New York

      Will - You are a national disgrace. You should be ashamed of yourself. You personally embarrass me as a United States citizen. You would have had my attention had you not immediately resorted to infantile name calling. You attacked people on here who were just attempting to give their opinion. You are a bully. When someone doesn't agree with you, you call them names, insult the country they are from and try to belittle them. You are a small tiny person. I am washing my hands of you.

    • profile image

      SassySue1963 4 years ago

      I think we've taken a wrong turn off the topic of the Hub here, which was the loopholes available in the selling and licensing of guns. We have waiting periods and background checks. There is no reason that a purchase made privately, at a gun show or online should be able to by-pass these protections. I think we can all find some common ground there.

      @Credence Perhaps you should check some quotes by some people in some fairly powerful places before you say someone is just paranoid if they think there is an agenda to completely eradicate the 2nd Amendment. You can google Holder's comments on guns (no home should be allowed one) and more recently, Feinstein who said "if I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate, I'd have have outlawed all of them...turn them all in Mr. & Mrs. America". While it is certainly not the goal of all those in favor of gun control, it is a prevalent agenda of many of those in power within the Democratic Party.

    • billybuc profile image

      Bill Holland 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

      I guess what I don't understand is the rudeness attached to these attacks on Leslie. She is entitled to her opinion, but as soon as someone speaks out against gun ownership, or about the ways one can obtain a gun, then that person is verbally attacked. Why make it so personal? You are not being attacked....last time I checked she has every right to post a hub on this site and give her opinion. That does not give anyone the right to attack her for it. Give your damn opinion and move on with your life.

      The brutality of some of these comments turns my stomach. I was not aware that patriot was a synonym for rude s.o.b., but evidently it is.

    • WillStarr profile image

      WillStarr 4 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

      Why are Americans citizens expected to sit on their hands and be silent when non-Americans attack our way of life?

      It is akin to having a nosy next-door neighbor come over and tell you how you should run your home. None of you would tolerate that, so why are we supposed to remain silent when a non-American tries to tell us how we should run our country?

      Yes of course she has a right to post this Hub, but why are we attacked for disputing her?

    • shiningirisheyes profile image

      Shining Irish Eyes 4 years ago from Upstate, New York

      Leslie - Billy Buc just demonstrated what a true gentleman is. He is a class act. Enough said and I am moving on.

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Will Starr's intolerant point of view and attitude, that is his chronic nationalistic xenophobia and knee-jerk insults for anyone with whom he disagrees is the root cause for the vitriol he encounters here. Starr was the first to castigate the author for not being a 'murikan—typical for a rabid right-wing reactionary.

    • billybuc profile image

      Bill Holland 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

      Yep, I read them in order, Sassy, and I still disagree with you....but then bottom line, who cares? It makes no difference what I write here, nor does it make any difference what you write. You can't convince me..I can't convince you....so it's time to turn my attention to things that really matter.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Yes, but it's important to let them know we don't lay down and take it, like what happened under Bush.

      They have been used to ruling un-opposed. The opposing they can't handle--so they attack!

      IMHO

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      example...:=)

      "If you strike me down now, I will become more spiteful than you can possibly imagine." - The GOP http://www.nationalmemo.com/carville-greenberg/ent...

    • Credence2 profile image

      Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast)

      @cyntthggt

      Thanks in advance for your civil and respectful discourse. As for the article that I read that you posted, I believe that requiring a patient to reveal whether or not he or she owns a gun as a condition of treatment to a treating physician is draconian, out of line and is not medically relevant.

      Sheer necessity forces us to recognize that where there is a nation of over 300 millions, that it is not 'collectivism' to acknowledge it has to be about us and we and not you or I. I am satisfied that the balance between individual rights and perogative verses the need for cohesion needed for a functioning society is currently being maintained. In other words, my rights end where your nose begins.

      Why paint the entire progressive movement and ideals over a few clowns with whom you had the misfortune of being in the company of who were not of value from anyones ideological perspective? Ignorant, insensitive people are not necessarily leftist in origin. I consider myself 'Christian' and I did not like GW Bush's policies. I did not go about throwing around molotov coctails. Being evaluated for your 'looks' is commonplace in a flawed and imperfect world. I certainly say what I think needs to be said, and suspect that you should also, just be prepared to defend your positions.

      What I don't understand is why people associate anti-Christian with liberal? Jesus himself replied 'why do you call me good, only God the father is truly good'. The whole world is in the hands of the 'wicked one'. That is the truth that I recognize, so no human being is in a position to be 'holier than thou'. Rather than advocate atheism, I call on those that want to wear Christianity like a badge to be less inconsistent and hypocritical in their practice, and instead, let what should be their fine example inspire others.

      When it comes to the public square the atheist has just a much right to a place as do I. Because neither you nor I can objectively prove the existence of the foundation of ANY religious belief. I resist the idea of 'establishment', that is not being against student or students praying individually or together on their own time in schools for example, but it is against teachers, principals and those in authority leading students in prayers or otherwise indoctrinating in public schools. That hardly makes me a monster, it is being reasonable and respectful toward everybody. I think that you need to reevaluate your position

      @Sue

      I don't know Sue, the rightwinger spoke of banning abortion for even victims of rape and incest, seems a bit far out, but your mainstream GOP has denied that this was the true tenets of the party. They say that the moderates in the face of this platform was overreacting to their very words. Well, this overreaction had a part to play in the GOP defeat last November, and lets hope that they learn from it. Obama has stayed away from this gun controversy like the plague over his entire first term, if he had wanted your gun, don't you think that he would have invested more political capital to acquire it? You hear isolated voices in the Democratic party say things that cause you alarm, nothing has happened to affect the 2nd amendment, can I say the same about the GOP plan to lockbox every American female's womb? Sorry, Sue paronoid is the right word.....

      @Leslie, sorry for hijacking you hub, but this has been good

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Not to mention, Ted Cruz (R) said "efforts to limit assault weapons and high capacity magazines are unconstitutional. "

      and I'm sure he's not alone.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      Thank you! lol

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @TheManwithnopants: Hi Jim! I so appreciate your level-headed civility - again! On the other hand - i am so exhausted from attempting to 'discuss' where others only want to 'insult and confront'..

      Please know that you're welcome here anytime - just because we don't agree on everything - doesn't mean we can't respect each other - or even be friends!

    • cynthtggt profile image

      cynthtggt 4 years ago from New York, NY

      Credence - You wrote: "In other words, my rights end where your nose begins." No, my rights ended. Your metaphor reveals your own false projections. Even the FBI (and you'll hear about this case one day) told me, "the liberals don't want you diagnosed." It was not just the doctors - it was wanting me dead. They thought I was rich (been an athlete [or trained with the Olympics] so I looked healthy so therefore I must be rich, I guess, even though I grew up on milk and cheese). The people who did this were educated liberal lawyers. I never spoke a word, Credence. I did nothing.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: HERE, HERE!!!

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      oh sorry--he's a Texas senator. you know--high level member of Congress.

    • cynthtggt profile image

      cynthtggt 4 years ago from New York, NY

      Credence: You wrote "When it comes to the public square the atheist has just a much right to a place as do I. Because neither you nor I can objectively prove the existence of the foundation of ANY religious belief. I resist the idea of 'establishment', that is not being against student or students praying individually or together on their own time in schools for example, but it is against teachers, principals and those in authority leading students in prayers or otherwise indoctrinating in public schools. That hardly makes me a monster, it is being reasonable and respectful toward everybody. I think that you need to reevaluate your position." I am more respectful of diversity than they. Couldn't agree more. But I never made plain any religion. I do not go to church. But because I was not part of the collective liberal "establishment" I was discriminated against. I did nothing. If more were individuals, gangs would not have the power to indoctrinate. Liberals are not about individualism and less government. They like big government which leads to control over individuals.

    • Credence2 profile image

      Credence2 4 years ago from Florida (Space Coast)

      Believe me, cynthtggt, the right has its own gangs and "establishment', that has not and would not extend the hand of welcome to me. Yes, I am a liberal and I am an individual, but I recognize that I am a individual among other individuals that also have rights and concerns and I have to respect and acknowledge that. We see government as 'us" rather than 'them'. They exist because of my votes and patronage. We see government as a partner rather than an adversary. It is private sector and greedy capitalists who have their hands in your pockets and strive to control your life and corrupt the government and its representatives.

      But, such are the differences between left and right....

    • chip1775 profile image

      Brett Wood 4 years ago from Atlanta

      http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/violent-crimes-an...

      You probably won't read it, but here you go anyway. Last post on this hub.

    • always exploring profile image

      Ruby Jean Fuller 4 years ago from Southern Illinois

      Leslie, The main site i share is Google+.....Wordpress....Linkedin...The progmatic pundit.................Google+ is the best...What a shame when you are treated so badly..Keep writing...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Credence2: For obvious reasons - i'm going to keep this short...lol

      THANK YOU for your support - please come back any time and have your voice of reason heard!

    • cynthtggt profile image

      cynthtggt 4 years ago from New York, NY

      ImKarn, I have not read Will's hubs but I have read yours. You are a very talented writer and though my comments are not the best, I will be reading and following. Peace. (I like in particular your recent poem, so we do share some thoughts and opinons in common.) Take care, and I strongly suspect you're a good person in your heart because of what and how you write. I was simply responding to what others have said on this hub that I thought unfair to one person. I sincerely look forward to your next piece.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Credence2: Feel free my friend - i very much enjoyed your post and your calm voice of reason..

      Please - come again...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Cynthtggt: I look very much forward to finding common ground dear - and am more than willing to 'agree to disagree' where the ground becomes rocky.

      I'm sorry if i jumped all over you - but - you don't know this guy - and i, and others -DO - only too well..

      He's nothing but trouble - and i don't apologize for saying so - it is the deadeyed truth!

      The bottom line is this - i am doing my damndest to find a way for the world to continue to exist - and co-exist - i'm trying to think outside the box to FIX things - before we're past the tipping point..

      i know i have a teensy weensy voice with very little reach - but - i do NOT care!

      it's important to me to say it - and if i can make ONE person think - i'm content..

      i will NEVER be able to make will think - perhaps because i'm a woman, or a canadian, or a liberal (according to him), OR OR OR - but i need to concentrate on the possible - not the impossible..

      thanks for having the guts to come back!

      Impressive..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Teaches12345: pant,pant,pant...

      I couldn't agree more, dear - thanks for adding your opinion...

    • pagesvoice profile image

      Dennis L. Page 4 years ago from New York/Pennsylvania border

      Since when can't someone who resides in another country write an article that addresses issues on foreign turf? If that practice is so unacceptable, then we better pull the plug on all reporting from American journalists regarding their viewpoints on North Korea, Syria, Iran, etc.

      Since when is a person labeled liberal because they want responsible gun registration laws? I know a plethora of republicans that think AK 47's have no place in the hands of citizens. I know many moderates that believe there should be stricter controls over gun shows. Then there are liberals who want even tougher laws. The fact of the matter is quite simply that the current situation with the NRA's influence is way out of line. Instead of progressing as a society we are heading down the slippery slope of regression, coupled with aggression. I guess if I wanted to kill a herd of buffalo then an assault weapon would fit the bill. We don't need these types of weapons (military style) where they can be used in mass murders of innocent, unsuspecting people. Arm everyone is the mantra of the gun zealots, yet, there were armed police on the premises of Columbine. How did that turn out? The Virginia Tech massacre took place with the police department right on campus. At the Colorado theater the police were there in 90 seconds and still 12 people were killed and 70 wounded.

      These people want to put armed police officers in every school and yet they are the same group that advocate cutting spending to education. HELLO! Doesn't anyone else see how crazy that inane statement is?

      Giddy up go...the United States is filled with wanna be cowboys. Yes siree, let's arm every man, woman, and child and just have at it. Then we can stir in an abusive relationship, a failed marriage, alcohol, drugs, my teacher didn't treat me right, my boss is a jerk, I wasn't loved enough and the rest is history. Unfortunately, it may be a short history for some who are snuffed out way too early. How on earth do these people live with themselves?

      I guess if we use the NRA's logic (oxymoron) then let's help every nation on this planet have nuclear arms. Now doesn't that make sense?

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      Pagesvoice, that was a great comment! You make reasonable sense and the hyperbole of the right wing arms defenders sounds like the drivel it is by comparison.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      ‏@OvertDictionary

      The Leftists: a group of individuals who are mocked by mass culture for wanting to resist the oppression which enshrouds our lives.

      :-)

    • BobbiRant profile image

      BobbiRant 4 years ago from New York

      Many Americans do Not read the Second Amendment well at all. It says: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." And, yes the NRA leader is paid over $900,000 a year to push the sale of guns to schools all at taxpayer's expense in America. Will S. just shoots first checks facts later.

      "Guns don't shoot people. But it is a strange coincidence that people with No guns are unlikely to shoot people either"

      Great hub.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "Unlike the right, who has now adopted Rush Limbaugh’s mantra that “low information voters” were bewitched by Barack Obama’s magic, the left actually changed itself in order to be more in sync with America. This is because we are able to admit that liberalism is not perfect, that it must change in response to outside information and that we simply cannot bend reality to fit into what we believe.

      Modern conservatism is incapable of this, and to point that out to the right makes them real mad and they write books and columns about liberal meanies not taking them seriously. "

      http://thedailybanter.com/2013/01/shorter-cons-don...

      Look at the pictures they use on the Weekly Standard! They have nerve complaining about anything!

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Sorry--this is the last!! But, in case you don't click on that article...this is key:

      "In other words, as always, the right would rather the left sit there like it did in the late ’70s and ’80s and take it like a bunch of dummies and don’t you dare ever fight back. Never you mind that the reason the right hates people like Barack Obama and Bill Clinton stems largely from those two (and many others) being able to throw a punch and bloody the right’s noses."

      Hits close to home HERE, I would say. IMHumbleO....homage to you ImKarn, and others, who get punched in the nose on a regular basis.

    • pagesvoice profile image

      Dennis L. Page 4 years ago from New York/Pennsylvania border

      I also feel it is necessary to add one more piece of information. If you believe it is high time some changes are made to the insanity of a gun crazed nation then I would urge you to go to www.demandaplan. org and complete their forms. I signed and followed their directions. http://www.demandaplan.org/

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      2 out of every 5 (also known as 60%..)..

      http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/gun-show-...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Pagesvoice: Lol..i can't D - i'm a Canadian...haha...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Pagesvoice: Yep..it's all starting to make sense to me now, D! if you scroll down to the bottom - there's a link to Alex Joneses INSANE RANT on pierce morgan - SCREAMING that 1776 would 'COMMENCE AGAIN' if anyone tried to take their guns away..

      I also posted it on your wall..Warning: You may want to SHOOT yourself afterwards..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Xstatic: X - meet D! D- meet X! You guys are like a match made in heaven and i LOVE that our 'circle of sanity' is growing!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Sigh...as true as that is, Chris - the right wingers say exactly the same thing - in reverse of course..

      lolxx

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Bobbirant - Hello dear - and welcome to the fray..lol..

      They spend that money - and much much more - to make absolutely certain that 'the people' is interpreted as an individual right - and not a collective right as it was meant - if taken in context..

      Now..while the supreme court HAS interpreted it as an individual right (2010) they ALSO removed the 'militia' clause - which in fact - removes ALL need for the people - individually OR collectively to bear arms.

      If that made any sense whatsoever - the bottom line is that if someone actually steps up and calls for real gun control - the supremes will pass it no problemo. In fact - they've never NOT passed one - the problem is - they never come before them becuase the NRA is usually smart enough to keep the supremes out of it..

      i think they're in for a little shock very shortly - if obama grows a pair..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: sigh...i 'lovemychris'! lol

      Thanks so much for the support my friend..

      it is truly appreciated, cause - my nose is sore!

      lol

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      I don't know......it' not quite the same thing, IMO.

      to use myself as an example:

      me: "Iraq was a war that Bush and Cheney lied us into"

      them: "You Republican hating, America-hating traitor!!"

      See? They still practice the politics of Lee Atwater.....

      Then, if you give them back, even an iota of the same: you will be pounced on by a flock, and silenced.

      Not the same, IMO.

      No hearings after hearings on Bush.....

      "Don't want to put the country through that".....

      No question of his legitimacy, no question of his patriotism.

      Not the same at all, in my view.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      "Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio will begin sending armed “posses” to patrol around Arizona schools today, in response to the shooting less than a month ago at Sandy Hook elementary school. "

      oh my god......this lunatic. Better hope you don't look hispanic.

      Armed possees? This is America? More like East Germany in the 60's.

      You scared of gvt? I'm scared of possees from people like him! My grandson is mixed race!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Lol...honey - ya think i don't know how they work? haha READ UP! omg..

      Hey - i sent you some fan mail - please read - and i'm now following you...

      take care, my friend..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: I'm scared of armed posses toooooooo...

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Thank you ImKarn......will check now!

      and if I could speak freely, I would say: Possees are for P---ies!! hahaha

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      OH, no wonder he's banned in Amurrica.....@maxkeiser

      The irony is that gun owners in America are not serious people. They tend to be babies with .44 caliber pacifiers.

      Because, if they will get possees out, to keep protecting the "right" to allow this:

      Aurora audio: 30 shots in 27 seconds: http://on.cnn.com/13hKGzl

      I'd say they do have the mentality of children, who don't want their big shiny toys taken away--no matter what the cost.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Lol...that would make a great title....if only...haha

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      GOP Rep Tom Cotton: "Women should not be given combat missions. Unless they're kindergarten teachers. Then they should be given AK-47s" (paraphrase)

      You would think this was a joke, wouldn' you???

      Or this one: "last week they were calling us no good bums, now they want to arm us!"

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: grrrrr...i dislike them passionately - i can see no instance in which their excuses and reasoning would make sense..

      i believe there were under 100 killings last year with the heading 'self defense' - that's a shitload of guns held under the reasoning that 'americans need to defend themselves'...

      their premise that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun? REALLY? well then - come come there's still so many bad guys? You're running around with 30 million GUNS - exactly how many more do they estimate will be required to turn the tables -as they insist that it does...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Lol...not a very funny joke - but yes - someone must be kidding, eh?

      Here's another one i could NEVER understand - you're not old enough to have a drink till you're 21 - but - you're old enough to die for your country...

      that one ALWAYS stymied me...can't imagine why...

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Hmm, this hit the nail on the head...and it goes for everything they want to do IMO:

      "Wow, we are really turning schools into prisons."

    • Eiddwen profile image

      Eiddwen 4 years ago from Wales

      Oh yes so very interesting and I vote up,cross and share all around.

      Have a great day.

      Eddy.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Hahaha(not) A prosac nation AND a prison state...

      my, my..how the mighty are falling, and - by their own hand yet..

      soooo sadll..

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Yes, and they think we will willingly go with them--which sadly we have.

      Idle no more.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl2AO-7Vlzk&fea...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Eiddwen: Hi, Eddy, dear! So grateful to you for taking the time to stop by. I know this isn't exactly your cup of tea so - i very much appreciate your support!

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Posted on Jan 10, 2013

      "James Yeager, CEO of a Tennessee company that specializes in weapons and tactical training, is threatening to go out and kill people if President Obama takes executive action on gun control. In a video uploaded to YouTube, the Tactical Response chief goes on a diatribe over reports that the Obama administration may pass some small gun control measures after the deadly elementary school shooting in Newtown, Conn.

      “Vice President [Joe] Biden is asking the president to bypass Congress and use executive privilege, executive order to ban assault rifles and to impose stricter gun control. F that,” Yeager says in the video. “I’m telling you that if that happens, it’s going to spark a civil war, and I’ll be glad to fire the first shot. I’m not putting up with it.”

      Yeager goes on to say, “I’m not letting my country be ruled by a dictator. I’m not letting anybody take my guns! If it goes one inch further, I’m going to start killing people.”

      According to Raw Story, the initial video was taken down and edited to exclude the last line."

      I would have put the vid here, but he says the F word. Go to raw story and see.

      ****So--who am I supposed to fear more? The gvt, or people like this?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Wowza!...

      @ImmortalTech

      America rubs it's p***y to blood & violence. Guns are just a vibrator.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Why don't you write about this?? If you're not - i might be forced to...

      Would you mind posting this comment on my other 'guns' article? Thanks Chris

      ilovemychris...

    • pagesvoice profile image

      Dennis L. Page 4 years ago from New York/Pennsylvania border

      I just watched Yeager's video and quite frankly this man is a threat to society and should be arrested.

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      Wow! A real love gun nut surfaces! I hope others are shamed by this hystercial outburst. Did he break any laws, I wonder?

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

    • profile image

      SassySue1963 4 years ago

      @lovemychris....Most of what Biden has proposed the President circumvent Congress for are no big deal, with one exception. A National Gun Registry. You might want to research some history to see where those lead.

      I do find it ever so amusing that those screaming foul from the rooftops any time Bush used EP for anything at all, find all this bypassing of Congress A-OK by President Obama. Best put the kool-aid down for at least a minute and wake up to someone who thinks anytime Congress doesn't agree with his Agenda, he can just skip over that little thing called checks and balances.

      As for Yeager, I have not watched the video yet. I certainly will do so.

    • profile image

      lovedoctor926 4 years ago

      OMG.... I just clicked on that link.... That is crazy!!

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      That guy is certifiable surely as a whack, maybe breakinng laws? I hope Homeland Security sees this one.

    • profile image

      lovedoctor926 4 years ago

      xstatic- that's funny, but very true.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      People who threaten to KILL if they don't get their way deserve NO checks or balances....they deserve to be monitored just as much as you people like to monitor my uterus.

      IMO

      btw---This guy will be on Ed Shultz show tonight.....as you see, he is upset by the ban on assault rifles, and the regulating of guns.

      NOTHING about "taking away guns". Just the mass-murdering kind.

      And I have to register my friggin DOG.....and license her, AND prove she has all her shots. Sorry--if you own something that can kill people in an instant.....the community should know about it, IMO.

      and ImKarn...go ahead and write that---I don't have the necessary gumpshin to do it.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      @Ish

      "the school mass shooting, no not that one...no not that one."

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      NRA statement:

      The group signaled it has no interest in working with the White House any longer, adding that “Instead, we will now take our commitment and meaningful contributions to members of congress of both parties who are interested in having an honest conversation about what works—and what does not.”

      In other words....hands off my assault rifles, and endless supply of guns and ammo...we will only discuss arming everybody on the planet.

      "Mo guns, Mo money"--me

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      For gods sakes...these people need to be stopped. They are armed and dangerous, and living in secret!

      "Today in WND, Rush effectively suggested that people should begin an armed revolt against the government: “There are also Americans – some misguided, some ideologues – who work every day of the week in the cause of compromising our liberties,” Rush writes, “I suppose suggesting that we shoot them wouldn’t be taken very well – although that is precisely what it came down to 236 years ago.”

      Rush, who hoped that a Romney administration would imprison liberals and journalists, like in the conspiracy video warns that the Obama administration is using the school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, to “divert attention from its own abject criminality,” crack down on gun ownership, do away with the Constitution and require “compulsory periodic assessments of citizens by government psychologists.”

      http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/wnd-floats-a...

      I'm sorry--but that 2 in a row suggesting killing Americans.......there are alarm bells ringing loud and clear.

      And the NRA has tv and radio stations too...did you know that? Imagine the you-tube community....

      This has gone way beyond reason....as has been predicted, They want a blood war. imo

      women's rights gone. police state mentality. Fascism.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Pagesvoice: Sigh...this is treason in my book...guessin' not in the united states?

    • ImKarn23 profile image
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      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Xstatic: You mean ANOTHER real live gun nut, doncha X? sigh..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovedoctor926: I hope homeland security sees it tooooo...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @lovemychris: Dog's don't bite - Owners do? lol

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: we're just asking for a friggin 'leash' - we're not asking to put it to 'sleep'...lol

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: The whitehouse should be embarrassed - and now - they have been! wtf was he doing - having lunch with the president of the NRA - perhaps he was planning on a noseful of NRA ASS as nn appetizer?

      sigh..the word of the day is BALLS!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @lovemychris: exactly why and HOW is limbaugh still on the air? People have been removed from the airwaves for nothing - in comparison - and yet - here he is..

      Can you say 'INFLUENCE"? I know i can...

      it's all about the money and the power - they usually wind up with the control as well..

      UNLESS - the majority STANDS UP!

      HELLO - MAJORITY?

      hello....

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Well, now those signs at Tea Party rallies are coming back to mind......"We won't shoot...this time", "Sometimes the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots".....

      They pooh-poohed those who raised an alarm, as they always do.

      "Oh--we're not trying to outlaw abortion"....but, as far as getting one.....it's pretty much a Done Deal

      "Oh don't worry that we brought GUNS to an Obama rally----nothing to see here."..........

      Birtherism

      Hatred and disrespect from members of the gvt

      And sorry, but most of the gun-loving states are former slave states

      THIS president wants to dis-arm you.......but never Bush.

      Really ? gee-how'd you come to that conclusion........in 2008?

      Racism rears it's head.

      And your baby antics which have been allowed to flourish will be no more.--Ted Nugent!

      say...did you hear all the gun-lovers suggest that young men arm themselves so they don't end up like Trayvon Martin? Suppose Zimmerman had been killed instead.....

      Then you'd see gun prevention, just like Ronnie Reagan did after the Black Panthers stood up to Hoover's FBI.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      You don't respect my 4th amendment rights to privacy?

      I don't repsect your 2nd to own a gun.

      always you always have to take...but you never ever give.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      @kurteichenwald

      Dead kids are real. Ur fantasies abut tyrannical govnts is paranoia. Dead kids are real. Ur beliefs of 2nd Amnd. is not held by any court...

      Dead kids are real. Ur belief peeps want to come for all of your guns is a delusion. Dead kids are real. Ur fears and rage are childish...

      So, tell us dead kids are just about emotion, that 1 bullet wuld have killed them anyway....

      Most gunners are good peeps. But u who dismiss the flood of blood show urselves to be inhuman, more concerned w/ ur toys than ur fellow man.

      ******

      I'm geussing he has a small child. 6 and 7 yrs old, wasn't it?

      My gs is 6.

      I don't give a Fig about your "right" to shoot 30 times in 27 seconds.

      Join the army.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Sue: Sigh...apples and oranges - ALWAYS apples and oranges..

      First of all - the only one that HAS used his EO to date - IS BUSH - and i believe he started a war with a foreign country..

      IF Obama were to use his EO - IF IF IF - it would be to stop the war IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY..

      apples and oranges, because that's all you got...

      Maybe - YOU should put the kool aid down dear - it's affecting your perception of truth and reality...

      AND..i thought you had left my hubs?

      Nice to see that you just can't stay away! Lol...

      Guessin' im doing something right...er...LEFT..

      haha

    • CMerritt profile image

      Chris Merritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana

      Leslie, just for the record.......Obama has already issued and signed 144 Executive Orders....

      http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive...

      In fairness, Bush used them too, and so has nearly every POTUS since Hoover.

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      In Portland, Oregon, (yesterday and other days apparently) two 22 year old men have been making a show of walking around neighboorhoods with semi-automatic rifles, magazines inserted, just to make a statement. They apparently have permits to carry concealed anyway, so having the rifles loaded is ok.

      It seems to me that more is inserted than the magazines.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      You know....people say "you're crazy and hateful" when you say something like: "People like Rush and Beck and Palin, Nugent et al are dangerous, because their words are believed, and people act on them." Hence: the gun hysteria against Obama.

      Hence: *I believe*....Jared Loughner, and these kooks who think they have the right to start shooting people.

      And for gods sakes---that woman who was in hysterics because Fox News told her her kid was being "indoctrinated" by singing a song for the new president, Obama.

      and this:

      http://www.wsmv.com/story/20074461/wife-runs-husba...

      *******

      Stop the madness! God people...get a grip!

      Maybe it's time a little 1st amendment regulating go on....? You can't say s**t, f**k etc on the public airwaves.....how about you can't say Obama wants to take your guns and lock you in FEMA camps?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      @LOLGOP

      America is the greatest country on earth but if you take away our assault weapons we're basically Nazi Germany. - An American Exceptionalist

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @CMerritt: ya know Chris - somewhere in the baack of my head i knew this, but - i was both focused and exhausted..lol..

      You're right, my bad..not gonna correct it neither...

      lol..

      xx

    • ImKarn23 profile image
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      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Xstatic: OMG...this may sound terribly cliche, but - it's the ONLY thing i can think of: WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO? Or is it: WHAT HAS THIS WORLD COME TO?

      i'm starting to think we're past the tipping point and nothing can stop the momentum..

      tell me i'm wrong X..i need to go read a poem..( and NOT one of mine..lol)

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: The 'gun hysteria' against obama is just another sign of the paranoid, trigger happy - and often racist world they live in, dear..

      Don't let it upset you...LOL..

      On the other hand - i hope HIS security team has their A game on these days...

      Oh, and - i believe loughner too - why wouldn't i..

      In this day and age when we're supposed to be aware of what's going on around us and to report anything that might seems odd, off, or dangerous- WHERE does one report HIM? And - after reporting one - exactly WHAT might happen? I would like to think that minimally he would have his guns removed - but - my pressimistic streak says that very little - if anything at all - would be done..

      That is - until AFTER he pulls the trigger, that is...

      sigh..

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      I'm not worried about Obama....I always thought, and still do, that he is a mad genuis. Always 2 steps ahead of his detractors.

      Like the trillion dollar coin: sheer genius!

      After all--there is no such thing as a trillion dollars...it's a concept. For control. "God is a concept by which we measure our pain"-lennon)...Money is a concept by which we measure our worth.

      You want a trillion dollars? Here ya go!

      Say--wonder if it's as good as W's credit card? *wink* *wink*

      As far as the rest: There is only one race--the human race. If you're for it: good on you. If not.......you deserve what you get.

      We will just Keep Truckin!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq9M_-Mxuzo

      Boogie Shoes.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Awww, they're spoiling all the fun...:(

      Treasury & the Fed just killed the platinum coin http://wapo.st/UHfRP8

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: you on facebook?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Yes, but I never go there.......never got the facebook bug :-)

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      Leslie, I have one or two poems that have been called "peaceful" if you can imagine...

    • Deborah Brooks profile image

      Deborah Brooks Langford 4 years ago from Brownsville,TX

      What a hub..wow!! I have to say one more time., I HATE GUNS!!! i hate people that use them for evil.. killing innocent children innocent people.. loved your writing i love how you keep us informed.. Leslie you have a great heart.

      many blessings

      sharing

      Debbie

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Well, well......

      Republican Party has a “dark vein of intolerance” against a black President --Colin Powell, on Meet the Press.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

    • HLPhoenix profile image

      HLPhoenix 4 years ago

      Well I see the pot is still boiling over here...:) Have very much enjoyed the back and forth... but it took Gen. Powell to spur my pen into action.

      Well, Well Colin Powell... finally smelling the roses? They've been growing outside your door the whole time you have been silent.

      This whole thing, all the hysteria, everything ...is based in baseless RACISM. These uneducated, unenlightened, downtrodden rednecks... so easily led by their White Male mainly Protestant hatemongers, from obssessive Birthers to believing Obama is stealing their 2nd Amendment Rights... little penises, BIG GUNS... govenment takeover paranoia... but DANGEROUS... we talk, and worry ...but their leaders both the Religious hatemongers and Media Ringmasters have lost control of them... the bit is in the teeth of the Crazy, Gun Toting Militia minded... Birther believing, Nut Cases who have no ability to think for themselves... and we all need to be Afraid, Very Afraid...

      It is time for the Government to take action... it is illegal to incite a riot, to call FIRE in a theater. I think calling people to arms against their government... threatening to start killing people if any restrictions at all are put on the ownership of guns qualifies as an immediate threat under those laws... let's hope our leaders have the backbone to enforce those laws... before we do have fighting in the streets.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Trillion dollar coin...omg..

      Does anyone remember something called - the gold standard????

      lol

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @DeborahBrooks: Hi, Deb! I so appreciate reading my..'political' stuff...i know it's not your favorite thing to do - so - i am grateful!

      Your support knows no bounds! Incredible!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Gee...big surprise! I've been saying that since the election and the 'rabid republicans' 'anyone but obama' mission statement...

      my question is: What took Powell so long? Me thinks those right wingers may have used some intimidation?

      just askin'?

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @hlphoenix: ihave no doubt that racism is a huge factor..,I was forced to that ugly conclusion during the election when the rabid republicans couldn't give me one good reason for theiur rabidity..its ugly and truly pathetic...

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Well Karn...Max Keiser says buy silver! He's trying to break the bankster's hold on gold...if there is any left, that is ;)

      Thing about Powell.....he's guilty too. He sold the world on wmd's. He's in it up to his eye-balls, imo. He was with Bush Cia in S America....he had to--that's who he worked for.

      There are no Pontias Pilot's here...the whole thing is dirty.

      But this racism sh*t.......thefuggoutta here.

      Grow up.

      Eat your veggies.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Newtown Police Chief Slams NRA’s Gun Position, Backs Assault Weapon Ban. http://bit.ly/13tJOJa

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @lovemychris:..no big surprise there eh..still very intdrested to know how many were nra members before...

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      ahaha...this sound familiar??

      "GOP Congresswoman says gun regulation isn't necessary because people can kill others with their car or a hammer"

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Hullo...I think I read about this in ancient history....Sparta!

      http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/01/...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @lovemychris: the MOST idiotic comparison! REALLY? do we point, aim and shoot to kill with a car or a hammer?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Read the forums here...you will see the same argument!

      New Pew poll on guns: 85% of gun owners & 85% of Republicans support universal background checks. http://usat.ly/10uMuHR

      I wish the NRA would listen to its members. And I would remind them that cars are regulated up the yin-yang. For our own safety and the common good.....whether we all like it or not.

    • profile image

      Unknown 4 years ago

      Please look up Infowars . Com

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Yep...Yep...and Oh, YES!

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Why these buffoons are dangerous:

      "The campaign demonizing gun owners doesn’t work anymore. Does anyone know the guns sold since Sandy Hook massacre are enough to arm the Russian, Chinese, the Indian and US Military three times over. That is not including the private sales which is greater than the instant FBI back ground check. So why are we seeing the patriot panty waste have their stomach in knots? These gun grabbers are little cockroaches we can step on easily when the time comes."

      http://www.thelonestarwatchdog.com/2013/01/14/are-...

      They don't give a flip about fellow American citizens--they want to shoot and kill them for god's sakes! And that inlcudes members of the military, whom they pretend to glorify. Maybe just hit the knee-caps to shut them up?

      Intimidation. Power at the end of a barrell. And that is why the gvt needs to be armed...to protect us peaceful people from the arm-chair warriors, like Nugent, who put peanut butter up his butt to avoid Vietnam.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      @TeaPartyCat

      Rep. Steve Stockman: "We will impeach Obama if he issues an executive order on guns. The charge will be presidenting-while-black."

      This!:@kgwrotethis

      when the GOP & later the Democrats didn't impeach Bush any future POTUS impeachment must not be possible.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Whoa

      Thom Hartmann:

      "But I want to tell you something you don't know about the Second Amendment - something that's been lost in the pages of history - that is very crucial to informing today's current gun debate. And that's this: The real reason the Second Amendment was ratified, and why it says "State" instead of "Country" was to preserve the Slave Patrol Militias in the Southern States, which was necessary to get Virginia's vote. Founders Patrick Henry, George Mason, and James Madison were totally clear on that...and we all should be too...Today's Second Amendment is linked to our nation's disturbing history of slavery. In the Beginning, there were the Militias. In the South, they were also called the "Slave Patrols," and they were regulated by the states."

      go deeper down the rabbot hole...it all comes to the same end, doesn't it?

      and the manuevers to make abortion impossible?........same end.

      We are not as much removed from our past as we would like to be.

      Root it out, shine the light.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      The state of New York has just passed the toughest gun law in the US.

      I hope it is a model for the rest of us.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemy chris: come on! did he really say that? omg

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Xstatic: here's how i see it X - a gun law in new york is worthless unless all the other states tow the same line..

      it's gotta be across the board - federal...

      or...new yorkers are just sitting ducks for the angry and armed...

      do the boys with the oozies and ak47's get to keep them?

    • HLPhoenix profile image

      HLPhoenix 4 years ago

      You can keep your guns if you register them... if you don't you can loose them.

    • shiningirisheyes profile image

      Shining Irish Eyes 4 years ago from Upstate, New York

      Leslie - It has to start somewhere. I consider it a beginning.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Yes, and for that stupid NRA add, with the ominous sounding voice trying to scare people.....

      Presidents and their families need protection, because people may be trying to kill them. Really---real-time, not fantasy.

      I do not ever no way no how want an armed guard at my kids elementary school. Not now, not ever. I don't want one at the supermarket, playground, bus stop, etc.

      Keep your gun fetish in your own pants, thank you!

      They are trying to turn us into Gaza, and here's a ps: We are not the enemy!!!

      (and just on a personal note....I don't believe for one instant the story on Newtown. So--there is much more sinister behind that one....and that is what they are covering up. just imo)

      But you won't use that horror to create more horror.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      and no, it is a fact of humanity:

      http://www.answers.com/topic/phallic-worship

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Independent Firearms Owners Association.

      another option, along with Gun Owners of America.

      The NRA is making you all look bad. racist, and trigger-happy. IMO

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed a gun violence prevention law; the Drudge Report linked it to mafia violence: http://mm4a.org/V8a2Qn

      Is it coincidense that Alex Jones called Bloomberg a child-sex trafficker? Or did another memo go out...."link gun-control with gangster activity" ?

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Unbridled greed, fear, anger, ideological delusion, insecurity, infantile obsessions, male inferiority, Obama hatred, government paranoia, Second Amendment freedom from responsibility to human decency and protection of the innocent . . . it's all tied up in men wanting guns —anything else is BS.

      They only want to protect themselves and their their property—the same as the issues of slavery, only now the gun-lovers are the slaves to their . . . own deluded values that ignore humanity's rights to governmental protection.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      And yet, women can't protect their bodies from their gvt's church/state!

      They will have to learn I geuss....we have the right to be free from their guns!

      Just as much as they have the right to own them. Let us not forget: WELL REGULATED militia.

      Not trigger-happy ego obsession.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      nice...blends the 2 issues together...Rush Limbaugh to caller: "You know how to stop abortion? Require that each one occur with a gun" http://mm4a.org/VKIJdo

      sweet, isn't he?

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Odious—the Neanderthal genes are still trying to dominate . . .

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Yes--Obama said today 900 people have been killed since Sandy Hook. I geuss we should see how many people have been hammered to death, or screw-drivered to death or else it doesn't matter.

      Sensible gun laws....that's too much to ask. But 87% of counties in America..no availability to a constitutionally protected medical procedure, because certain people don't like it.

      ---and they cry.

      BO said I don't want your guns....rifles, handguns....

      Odious says "the wet dream plan", "children as human shields"

      Please....PLEASE SECEDE ALREADY!!!!

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Yep - although they don't seem to need all that much help - they're doing a pretty good job of looking like morons all by themselves...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @WizardofWhimsy: Well, Wizzzz - i couldn't have said it more succinctly myself!

      'Anything else is BS' - and - that's that!

      I don't understand where there outrage was when slurpees were regulated...or bubble gum cigarettes...OR OR OR...

      guess they're not impressed that countries that have gun control aren't murdering each other willy nilly - AND - we also get to keep our guns! The ones meant for people - not soldier and cops - that is!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychrist: How could i possibly have forgotten that they also would LOVE to regulate women's bodies!!! Something that needs as much constitutional protection as THEIR bodies - no more, no less..

      THIS seems reasonable - but regulating ak47's and oozies? OUTRAGEOUS!

      LOL...it's too beyond the pale to believe!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      'Odious' - AWESOME word! I have GOT to have this for 'word of the day' tomorrow...LOL

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: They're not gonna secede - they're gonna start another civil war, i'm very afriad..

      i'm really starting to think that inbreeding ran rampant...somewhere...somehow - and that listening, reasoning, - and giving a shit were mutated OUT...

      somewhere...somehow...

      what other reasonable explanation could there possibly be...LOL...

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Thanks Leslie. The fears and passions of people on both sides of the gun issue are bringing America's rule of law to its greatest test since our Civil War days. We no longer have a common enemy large enough to bring us all together. Our wars are fought by professionals for corporate profit and our population wallows in self-preoccupied distractions that keep them unaware of others' realities.

      The the right's passion for the "freedom" to be financially and physically secure along with "the rights of the individual" versus the left's passion for the "freedom" to pursue equality, justice and the general well being for "the rights of all" is the current Civil War.

      Sadly, the right's passions are mostly irrational and pathological in the sense that they are obsessively hooked on a culture of thrills, violence and male power as opposed to the more nurturing feminine impulses.

      But I take heart because the slaughter if these innocents in Newtown (my home state, btw) has brought out the panic in these paranoid zealots and survivalists exposing them as the irrational and deluded fools they are.

      The NRA , the gun industry and the Republican leadership have all overplayed their very weak cards and have made fatal mistakes in their strategies in their pursuit to continue in their unbridled profits and power.

      Coincidentally from another HUB: Will Starr: ""I just got chewed out by a Canadian who is touting the gun control executive order actions as the best thing ever to happen to this country. "

      I've had lots of non-Americans do that, and they are always liberals. It's like having a nosy neighbor telling you how to run your house.

      There is a growing uneasiness in the country, Fred, as we wait to see what this cocky little tyrant will do next. He is spending our dollar into worthlessness, and the rest of the political class refuses to stand up to him. Their jobs seem more important that the well being of the nation."

    • shiningirisheyes profile image

      Shining Irish Eyes 4 years ago from Upstate, New York

      I support this outstanding remark and commend you for a well-stated comment. I too saw the "little man from London" remark and have grown weary from the "butt out unless you are an American" routine.

      I refuse to attempt any further conversation from invididuals who resort to this type of behavior.

      Good for you.

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      I actually think people are ahead of them, and anticipate their civil war.

      I mean--it's pretty apparent what they are all about from oh say, a second of their presence. "Hey Obama-Suck on this!"....

      I read something the other day....that since the ATA or something has conficated all the bullets---they will be too expensive for most to afford...something like that.

      And we already know this admn has been aware of the rise in hate groups since the beginning.

      .....I don't see any civil war really. But I know for sure, the media wants one.

      That's why they give face time to idiots.

      And why the convo has somehow turned into arming every person on earth...as if that is the only way to "save our babies"....Buy a gun "for the children"....

      Ridiculous, and benefits only the gun manufacturers, who can buy and saturate us with all those adds starring Dr. Dread.

      Calm down, Fox Nation....you can keep your guns.

      But you won't have them around me. Your rights end where my nose begins.

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      The ironic fact is that anarchy can't be controlled and that's what these paranoid survivalists really are—anarchists who call themselves "patriots" and "Libertarians," like Ron Paul.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      “I’m told Sen. Rand Paul will introduce language within hours, within

      hours, to call for the nullification and prohibition of funding for the

      president’s executive actions announced today and possibly even using

      the federal courts to nullify and defund some of the things that he

      plans on doing,” Bolling said."

      Let's see.............how many times did this happen during this:

      "George W. Bush signed 280 Executive Orders during his presidency from 2001-2009."

      Hey Rand....you needn't bother. All you TP'ers have DONE for 5 years is nullify our votes! Nothing new here, and may I say:

      http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=baby+cry+sound...

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      I meant to say Rand Paul above—thanks!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Wizardof Whimsey AND Shiningirisheyes: I want you both to know - HERE - not over THERE where the shit has hit the fan and my words would be misconstrued into pandering to those who 'agree' with me - that i think you are AMAZING human beings!

      I don't see a lot of guts, a lot of balls - a lot of courage - for people to stand up and do/say the right thing - in the face of bullies...

      i'm afraid it's fear of being beat to a pulp - literally and metaphorically - as civilized conversation seems to have gone the way of reason and sanity...

      Please - don't either of you change - you are brave, old souls - and the world needs your voice..

      You re-invigorate a tired, weary, canadian warrior and worrier - and i don't care what country i'm from - i can guarantee i'm more fluent in your constitution than most americans..

      AND - i love the country and only want what's best for it! In my opinion - that needs to be peace - before you rip yourselves apart from the inside out..

      as we are witnessing...

      blahblah..

      bottom line? THANK YOU FOR BEING YOU!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Shiningirisheyes: Beckie, you amazing woman you - please read the comment i posted to Wizard's comment..

      I've told you many times how much you impress me and how grateful i am for your support - and now - i've told you BOTH!

      xx

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Wizardofwhimsey: Whatever they label themselves - they're thick heads and itchy trigger fingers frighten me!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Can someone please explain to me why we just went through a 2 year long, gruesome, embarrassing, and retardedly expensive ELECTION?

      I mean really - why bother?

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Stick to your own pistolas of wit, charm and confrontation, Leslie and thanks for the kind acknowledgement.

      And for what it's worth, I have been banished from forums forever by a dunderheaded censor because I am willing to call these troglodytes on their anger, hate and xenophobia.

      Moreover they should frighten you because they are out of touch with their own repressed fears and pathologies. The best comparison I can come up with is that of The Abolitionists prior to our Civil War. I have been watching a wonderful PBS series on it recently and it is most enlightening.

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/a...

      There was a significant backlash by the slave-holding states when they realized that the slave-free states could actually effect change that could end their powerful hold on the exploitation of blacks for cheap labor and control over other people—something they had grown quite accustomed to—nothing like having your way with a mulatto slave and siring more workers for your business while satisfying your sadistic and sexual fantasies.

      After the War with Mexico, (another war for profit) the Southern states negotiated a deal to reinstate a law that allowed southern slave-holders to travel up north to capture and confiscate their "escaped property." They were effective and won the battle, but they overplayed their hands and the atrocities that were committed were quickly exposed which eventually turned public opinion opinion against them—along with the help of Uncle Tom's Cabin and the plight of those who ran from the utter barbarity of slavery.

      And what is the opposite of "slavery" but "freedom"—the very word the slave-owners and the gun-fanatics rely on as their "constitutional right" as a citizen. They're cornered rats and they will become just as desperate because they no longer have a rational or remotely logical argument.

      Their delusions have been exposed for all to see; they're infantile jerks with irrational and unfounded fears. They will go down, but not without a fight because they can't admit the truth to themselves—let alone to others—they have too much false pride and vanity to be honest, courageous or have the decency to be ashamed.

      Take heart and know they have planted the seeds for their own demise politically.

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      EXACTLY the same as their election rhetoric - blustering, bullying, intimidation, disdain, and diversion! Not to mention a disturbing air of entitlement and superiority! They would NOT concede - in fact called for a LANDSLIDE VICTORY!

      It's insane - the absolute discounting of fact and truth, right and wrong - not to mention the total and absolute lack of empathy..

      They clearly LOVE to believe in anything divisive - and seek power and control while blaming others of doing the same...

      But - that's their agenda - to divert and intimidate..

      and let's be honest - they just DESPISE the fact that they have a BLACK PRESIDENT...LOL..

      If MORE stood up against them and exposed them for the neanderthals they prove themselves to be - THEY would be running scared like the cowards they KNOW they are deep down - and often not THAT deep down either!

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      True Leslie, the prejudice has been at the heart of the opposition to Obama from the getgo. They could not deny him a second term so like scorpions they sting everything in sight. .

      Joke is on them though--- the southwest is "browning" all around them. Texas and other border states are becoming a Hispanic majority.

      Hell, I even heard a program that proved the Texans are losing their "twang." They played people recordings of their voices from 20 or thirty years back, and they could not believe they ever "tawlked" that way. I know what that way is too, my sisters all talked like that and I got my first part in a play because I could bluster and BS like a good ole boy.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      They got you too Wizard??.....And yet....ever they go on. One day we may find out who it is that rules around here.

      And for some history facts:

      http://www.old-yankee.com/rkba/racial_laws.html

      and

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

      and now, after all those years of Bush 1 and Bush 2....they want to impeach Obama......cause Bush never ever did anything Unconstitutional. right?....."a g-d d-m piece of paper" Bush?

      humurous at best.

      And they are crushing women's rights to boot?.....

      Yes, people....

      We still have a fair amount of soul-searching to do as a Nation.

      One day we may reach that goal: All men are created equal.

    • shiningirisheyes profile image

      Shining Irish Eyes 4 years ago from Upstate, New York

      Leslie - You think I care whether they "claim" I am commenting for knowing you. They do not realize that it was actually this very subject that brought us closer together. I can not thank you enough for those kind remarks. You started my morning off fabulously.

      I can not condone their unfair and unreasonable tactics.

      I am happy to have met your acquaintance and consider it a privilege to call you a friend.

      Stay true to who you are. Continue to be the intelligent, heart-warming and hilariously funny lady you are.

      I said it before and I will say it again. My Dad would have referred to you as a "class act".

      I tip my hat to you.

      Love, Beckie XO

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      down the rabbit hole we go.....

      The Second Amendment wasn't written because we were afraid the British might return. It was written to enforce slavery http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-am...

      Truth will set us free.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      They can't ALL be wrong!

      ‏@WebsterGTarpley

      RandPaul, Rubio, TedCruz desperate demagogues court GOP's fascistoid TeaParty base- fighting over a southern regional party for racists

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Gun Appreciation Day Is Sponsored By A White Nationalist Party http://bit.ly/SdP5AX

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      This is an interesting comment by the sponsor:

      "Gun Appreciation Day is organized by Political Media Inc., a Washington-based Republican consulting firm headed by Larry Ward. Ward, who also serves as GAD chairman, recently came under derision for claiming that "Martin Luther King, Jr. would agree with me if he were alive today that if African Americans had been given the right to keep and bear arms from day one of the country's founding, perhaps slavery might not have been a chapter in our history." Ward has stood by his comment and claims that GAD "honors the legacy of Martin Luther King, but also the entire civil rights movement."

      So funny, some people really WERE targeted by the gvt.--African Americans, Civil rights workers, Native Americans, Vietnam war protestors, now Occupy Wall Street.....

      How are right-wing Republicans being targeted by the gvt???

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      well, after this i'm done hogging....but I really don't have a problem with separatists--as long as they can respect others who don't live by their creed. My daughter is 1/2 Asian, and all her half-sisters and brothers are commanded by their father not to date outside of their race. A lot of religions do it too....my dad was not allowed to step foot in my mother's house when they were dating...religious differences!

      And here is Muhammed Ali.......saying the same thing.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTeudEWOL4w&fea...

      BUT...in all the history of America...I am trying to think of one time where Right-Wingers were targets of the gvt........can't think of one!

    • CMerritt profile image

      Chris Merritt 4 years ago from Pendleton, Indiana

      wow...

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Add Your Comment" ...BUT...in all the history of America...I am trying to think of one time where Right-Wingers were targets of the gvt........can't think of one!"

      When Southern racists murdered innocent blacks and their supporters during the Civil Rights era.

    • profile image

      Longhunter 4 years ago

      "When Southern racists murdered innocent blacks and their supporters during the Civil Rights era."

      As those responsible for the murders should have been, Wizard.

      It's not just Right-Wingers that are targets of the government. Now we all are oppressed with more and more taxes and higher insurance premiums due to Obamacare. They want to restrict and eventually get our guns. If that happens, our other rights won't be far behind.

      Some see it, Wizard. Some simply refuse to. Those are the ones that go through life with blinders on.

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Oppressed? You can say anything you want, you can have as many guns and as much ammo as you want and Obama is simply asking for more responsibility from the gun industry. You're deluded by your fears and your resentments and you think it's reality, Longhunter. Get some help!

    • profile image

      lovedoctor926 4 years ago

      Leslie, I admire your patience my friend. Happy Friday!

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Well, there are rights that have already been stripped. Women's rights. And it's done by Republicans in power.

      These rights are GONE.

      Should I perhaps get a gun to protect myself from their further reach? Or would I then be a Femi-Nazi?

      People cry about imagined crap, and ignore real life.

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      This is what we're up against in a country where ignorance is actually fashionable in regions . . .

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      You know something....IF ONLY Obama would take away their guns! Then they would know how every single poor scared lonely young pregnant woman feels.

      Maybe if they actually had to feel what they dish out, things would change.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      January 18, 2013

      "A new study from a think tank connected to the West Point Military Academy highlights the threat of violent far-right movements in the United States, leading to the conclusion that, while diverse in in their causes, they are similar in their use of violence to achieve their aims. "

      http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/new-we...

      any questions?

      the rest of us already knew.

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Shiningirisheyes: I think we'll have to agree to agree that it's a mutual appreciation!

      You're my kind of people - and clearly - your dad was brilliant..LOL

      xx

    • ImKarn23 profile image
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      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovedoctor926: Lol...yoga...lots and lots of yoga!

      love ya Doc...

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: I hate to change the topic, but - whoever your plastic surgeon is - i'd like his/her number please..

      LOL..

      LOVE the new pic..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Longhunter: Hello Longhunter, and welcome!

      I see it clearly, sir - as - i live it - and have for over 50 years...i live in canada - and quite frankly - i feel ten times less oppressed and FREE than i do when in your country - where - while i love it as dearly as my own - i feel more and more ill at ease and unsafe. And trust me - i have spent OOdles of time there - from east to west and north to south - years in fact..

      so, as far as your 'blinder' statement goes - not to mention the paranoid rhetoric about needing to protect yourself against YOUR GOVERNMENT (lol..best of luck to ya - maybe you've noticed that it's no longer muskets all around? If they decide to take your 'rights' - it won't matter one iota that you've got your stupid guns - you're 'rightless' and dead in 3 seconds flat.

      THERE IS NO ARGUMENT TO THIS therefore - your entire point is moot...

      i want peace - or - MORE chance of peace. WHY must you deal with ridiculous scenarios that would be the end of the united states as we know it - whether you've got your guns or NOT - and refuse to deal in the reality of the here and now?

      This question i ask over and over and over - and it's interesting that i don't ever get an answer..

      the government would squash you like a bug - a well armed bug - but a bug none the less..

      Now - can you open your mind to other possibilities - seeing as you no longer need worry about that for one nano-second longer..

      PLEASE?????

      if 300,000,000 guns aren't doing the trick - exactly how many more do you figure it'll take till you've got a safer america?

      Come now...let's talk sense...

      i beg you..

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @ Lovemychris: Zackly "people cry over imagined crap, and ignore real life' - but , my dear - it's all part of the rhetoric - which again - they swallow whole without chewing or tasting..

      i do wonder why they never see even a glimmer of sense or light...

      i guess we need to spend billions to indoctrinate, eh?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Women are second class citizens, as always. As are those who want no part of guns.

      I mean, I can't BELIEVE we are arguing about their "right" to fire 30 shots in 27 seconds! Or to avoid background checks on ALL gun sales.

      Or to remove certain very deadly weapons from the public space......

      It is crazy on a stick, and I thinks it's a symptom of Obama Derangement Syndrome.

      Why oh Why are we always cow-towing to a minority of people who think their "rights" over-ride anyone else's?

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Oooh, if I had read Phoenix's comment on your other hub, I wouldn't have bothered with my comment! Nice.

      ps: you like my Stepford wife ImKarn? Isn't she perfection??

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Lovemychris: Absolute perfection - what stepford wife isn't...lol..

      i bet i could name some people who think stepford wives are the only kind of wife to have..

      LOL..

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Yes, and they are running a lot of state gvts these days.

      Stealth crawl.

      Don't tell people what you are really up to, and then once you gain power, lower the boom.

      It's what the Baglicans did in 2010.....remember Jobs Jobs Jobs? It became take away rights, take away rights, take away rights.

      Clear the deck for total corporate/church take over...don't like it? I got my gun right here to keep you in line.

      and btw...I thank those who were honest! Those like Akins and others. They told the truth about who they are.

      These stealth people...pretending to stand for freedom, when they want to take it away...at the barrell of a gun. Or death threats. Or violence....

      Not who I want to see leading my country, or even a dog-catcher for that matter.

      And certainly not ones I want around my kids. Ever. Anywhere.

      Guns+Anger=Power Trip.

      Egos out of control. False Supremacy.

      Real supremacy is leading by content of character.

      And those who own guns responsibly should be joining us in making it safe for all of us who don't!

    • profile image

      Longhunter 4 years ago

      Wizard - I know you don't agree with me but the way you like throw out insults is always good for laugh. Thanks!!!

      LMC - I see you've turned to the forums since being banned from the forums. It's a shame what HubPages did to you but freedom of speech came to die here. I'm glad to see you're still around.

      ImKarn23 - I'm not worried or the least bit paranoid about the government coming for my guns as they can't take what they can't find. Besides, we all know Congress isn't going to do a thing about guns. Reid has already said he's going to slow walk anything that comes to the Senate as he has several senators from pro-gun states coming up for re-election in 2014.

      The House is led by the Republicans. Nothing is happening there either.

      As for Obama, if he tries to do anything via executive order that goes after the Second Amendment, he knows he'll find himself defending himself in impeachment proceedings.

      So, you see I'm not the least bit worried or paranoid. I'm just sitting back and watching all the Liberals go spastic over something they can't change in this or any other political climate in the foreseeable future.

      In December 2012, 3.4 million guns were purchased in the U.S. That's enough guns to arm every active member of the Chinese and Indian military combined. All owned by U.S. citizens who don't trust their government.

      Keep in mind, while some were bought by people who already owned guns, some were also bought by people who'd never owed a gun before but realized they needed to get one. That should tell you something. I'm not expecting that it will nor that I'll change your mind on any of this. I respect your positions on guns as I do LMC's and even Wizard's whether any of you respect mine or not.

      I do think it's funny how Liberals like to think everyone is on their side all the time. When it comes down to it, no one is really willing to give up their rights, even to Barack Hussein Obama.

      Thank you for allowing my responses.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Well, LH...they wouldn't have done it if people didn't ask them to....so: who is it that really rules around here? ....but thanks! And I'm going spastic at their taking away womens rights....as they give aid and comfort to mass-murder.

      And I mean, really spastic. I fear for my gender.

      And you are wrong here. People do not condone 30 round clips and military style weaponry thrown at them as a means of intimidation.

      Bullies are bullies.....no one likes them.

      And keep in mind....when they kill the gvt, they kill soldiers and police and fellow citizens. They should be real proud.

      If they come to my house and ask me which side I'm on......they will kill a gramma, gf, daughter and mother, with a little grandson who depends on her.

      USA USA USA

    • profile image

      Longhunter 4 years ago

      LMC, I hope you're not insinuating it was I that got you banned. Remember, I was the one who tried to get you reinstated.

      We all have our special interest groups. Yours is women's rights that I support wholeheartedly. I have a wife, mom, and daughter.

      My group is maintaining gun rights. I don't necessarily condone 3o round clips either, LMC, but I'm not going to just give up the 16 round mag in the handgun I carry legally for personal protection either.

      I don't think anyone is going to be coming to your house to kill anyone, LMC, any more than they'll be coming to mine.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Well, I have my doubts LH. I have dealt with gung-ho people before.

      Add alcohol and a group hangin together....and guns: bad bad news. And No, I know you didn't ask for me to be banned LH...but someone did, and that's what makes me angry. Because i don't recall breaking their rules. It was personal, IMO.

      LH...your rights are fine, it's my daughter's-- and yours that are at stake...REAL time. REAL life!

      And the same people that demand their rights, think nothing of running rough-shod over our kids!

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Longhunter, when are you going to realize that describing someone's behaviors and attitudes accurately isn't "throwing out insults?" You don't seem to want to accept responsibility for the things you express and their implications.

    • profile image

      Longhunter 4 years ago

      Wizard, Wizard, Wizard, when are you going to realize you aren't always right? That was a rhetorical question so don't hurt yourself answering.

      When did you get so cynical? You hate everything. I mean, come on, Wizard. Is your life really so bad?

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      "Now we all are oppressed with more and more taxes and higher insurance premiums due to Obamacare. They want to restrict and eventually get our guns. If that happens, our other rights won't be far behind." -Longhunter

      I hate everything?

      I'm cynical?

      I'm not the one here exhibiting those traits!

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      Obama has too much support from the really patriotic Amricans to ever be impeached, despite the rantings of the right wing extremists whose paranoid ravings embarass the US before the world.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      @EricBoehlert

      Does Rush Limbaugh Think Civil Rights Activists Should Have Shot Cops?: http://bit.ly/140rIhW

      That's kind of what they are suggesting now, isn't it?

      Hey---OWS.....arm up!

      rigggghhhhhhtttttttt.......it only applies to Baggers.

      OWS--you are terrorists. Throw em in the clink.

      But, Baggers had signs threatening to water the tree of liberty with blood, and use guns.......

      Ehhh, 1st amendment protection, chump!

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      wow, synchro!:

      "The description of the squalid cell with its defective lavatory bears a strong resemblance to “Clink”, a 1932 account of Orwell’s attempt to get himself arrested in north London for purposes of journalistic research."

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @WizardofWhimsy: I think you're GREAT!!!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Xstatic: Oh, X..i'm sooo tired..yesterday i was 'invited' to a political group where i posted one article...

      The first comment on it was from the group ADMINISTRATOR - and guess what it was?

      One word: HILARIOUS!

      Wow..if i didn't just walk blind into the middle of an NRA meeting - i came damned close! They call themselves a political forum - but - they're only interested in like-minded opinions..

      MY opinions were 'moderated' constantly - while others got away with calling me 'stupid' and worse..

      it was...JAW-DROPPING! They have NO interest in solving the problem - NO concern with 80plus dead people a day in the most 'civilized' country in the world - ALL they want to do is BULLY..

      and- they do it well and without conscience..it's truly both frightening - and embarrassing...

      and oh so sad...in the end..

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      @WizardofWhimsy: I think you're GREAT!!!

      Ditto, my Dear Dudette! . . . and in the Astonishing-Administrator-Department:

      Here is my correspondence with the Hub Pages censor/moderator who banned me permanently from Hub Forums . . .

      Moderator:

      "Hi there,

      The text of your post is here:

      "I was equating Jonesy's diatribe, and anger about lazy people with another Tennessean, Melisa and in no way do I assume everyone in the South is as biased or wallows in petty resentments about government and the poor.

      It was just a comment to draw Jonesy out. He has a typical mindset of so many self-deluded and angry white men all over the world who can't tolerate change or understand their own prejudices which console them in their fears, anxiety and, at worst, paranoid projections.

      Thes people shouldn't have guns they should have therapists."

      Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns."

      . . . and my response that never got answered:

      "Wait just one minute—since when is labeling an anonymous person's words and behaviors accurately, a personal attack. And how can two anonymous people attack each other "personally?"

      Moreover, I was addressing the words and the behaviors of a category of biased people in general—of which Jonesy exhibits a similar "mindset." Your censor is the one who needs to understand and comprehend the distinction in that statement.

      Furthermore, Jonesy doesn't have to identify with my characterization of his behavior because it is just my opinion. And while your at it, read some of Jonesy's expressions of anger and hateful prejudice, then tell me if my description of that kind of behavior is not an accurate account.

      You allow ignorant fools to spew detestable and blatant agitprop and then won't allow people to call them on it? I don't even know now if I even want to come back to such a poorly run website—but I do recognize a Sorcerer's Apprentice who doesn't have a clue about moderating a forum when I see one.

      You suck at your job, Sir or Madam, but you have probably done me a favor because it's painfully obvious, at this point, that your site is a monumental waste of time and effort. If you had any kind of integrity you would be ashamed and embarrassed for such slipshod and shallow analysis of peoples' comments. "

      FWIW, I keep coming back for people like you and those here who speak out against shameful expressions of irrational hatred and ignorance!

    • profile image

      Longhunter 4 years ago

      I wouldn't say I'm cynical, Wizard. Yes, I am extremely distrustful the present administration but I'm not cynical.

      I have noticed a change in you over time. We've rarely agreed on anything but I was asking out of genuine concern. Take it for what it's worth.

      ImKarn23 - I get the same reaction if I go on an anti-gun forum. It happens when one expresses their strongly-held views but neither of us should stop.

      Again, thanks for allowing my posts.

    • profile image

      Longhunter 4 years ago

      Hey, Wizard, I just read your last post then came across where you thought this "Jonesy50" was me, Longhunter, in a forum titled "From My Cold, Dead Hands."

      Just so you know, my posts here on this hub are the first I've made in several months. I deactivated my page here back in August 2012, I think.

      People like LMC and a few others being banned from the forums were a part of why I left.

      Sorry to see you've been banned as well.

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Thanks LH, I have always recognized the fact that you can be a stand up guy with honor—regardless of your peccadilloes about your money, your fears and your resentments. ;-)

    • xstatic profile image

      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      That sounds like a den of jackals you fell into alright Kar'n!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Wizardof Whimsy: OMG...i canNOT stand the powers that be here! I made a complaint about willstarr coming onto my hubs and being abusive to not only myself - but my readers as well - and they wrote me back saying that i have to erase ALL 'hate' messages - OR BE BANNED!

      ARE THEY NUTS?

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

      Indeed, Karen, their selectivity and what they choose to overlook is most revealing and exasperating.

      Whether it's gun advocacy, racism, survivalist paranoia, or evangelical claptrap, it's all anti-American, anti-eqaulity and anti-Constitutional but, nevertheless, condoned here.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      @WebsterGTarpley

      "After Ted Nugent & Utah Sheriffs Association, TeaParty might be prosecuted under Smith Act for actively inciting violent overthrow of govt."

      FINALLY! And let us hope it happens. This is Operation Rescue tactics.....a domestic terrorism outfit long used to getting their way.

      Stop ALL of them!

    • TeaPartyCrasher profile image

      TeaPartyCrasher 4 years ago from Camp Hill, PA

      love:

      The rhetoric of Nugent, Rand Paul etc does not seem far from Al-Quadea, etc

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Exactly. Terrorists.

    • profile image

      Longhunter 4 years ago

      "After Ted Nugent & Utah Sheriffs Association, TeaParty might be prosecuted under Smith Act for actively inciting violent overthrow of govt."

      Don't get your hopes up, LMC. I would say it's more likely Barack Obama will be impeached before this happens.

      "Exactly. Terrorists."

      Obviously your views of what terrorists are greatly differs from a lot of other Americans.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Sure does!

      Like the Bush administration, the KKK, Operation Rescue, and the Tea Party, with their vieled threats.

      All given cover by their RW friends in gvt.

      Hopefully no more!

      This psuedo-suppression of gunners is a farce. You need to look at real suppression--which has thrived for decades.

    • profile image

      Longhunter 4 years ago

      If you're talking about the suppression of women, which I know is a hot topic for you, I agree with you, LMC.

      I'll be honest though, I think you're being a little conspiratorial on the whole right-wing thing. Given a little imagination, the same could easily be said about the left.

      Look at all the craziness being said about Sandy Hook. What are your thoughts on those conspiracy theories? Yes, I know they're not left-wing conspiracies. I think they're ridiculous.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      wow--I'm trying to answer you LH...my words keep disappearing after I'm done. Just poooof, gone.

      1. I don't think Lanza and his mom are the guilty ones

      2. Never did I hear of a cabal of Dems to say no to everything Bush

      3. Bushco was full of corruption and wrong doing...all these people who are outraged about Benghazi were there! No outrage then.

      KKK, Operation Rescue, TP...all RW. All terrorists, IMO

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      like this:

      WorldNetDaily's @ErikRush warns that under Obama we will all soon "bow to Communist overlords" http://bit.ly/VlGXRv

      This is done to inflame people. And not in a sensible way, if you get my drift.

      It's aimed to enrage.

    • lovemychris profile image

      Yes Dear 4 years ago from Cape Cod, USA

      Me...:"wow--I'm trying to answer you LH...my words keep disappearing after I'm done. Just poooof, gone."

      .......Just now saw this: I hope he doesn't mind me repeating it....

      "I've been well into a fairly long and, I would think, quite controversial response to one of your posts. . .only to have it abruptly disappear. I must now at least entertain the possibility that someone in Power at Hubpages doesn't like the way I think and just plain cuts me off."

      Is this possible? Or are our computers "off"?

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      Jim Higgins 4 years ago from Eugene, Oregon

      That is strange lovemychris! Let's hope it's a glitch.

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

    • Wizard Of Whimsy profile image

      Wizard Of Whimsy 4 years ago from The Sapphire City

    • midget38 profile image

      Michelle Liew 4 years ago from Singapore

      Way too easy to get guns. It's what makes implementing laws unnecessarily difficult. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, as always!

    • ImKarn23 profile image
      Author

      Karen Silverman 4 years ago

      @Midget38: I couldn't agree more - waaay too easy...waaay too many!

      thanks for taking the time, Michelle!

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