Turnabout is fair play.

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   Barefootfaeposted 11 years ago

   http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-wi … cies-areas
   
   
   Now manufacturers are refusing to sell restricted firearms not only to citizens, but govt. agencies as well.
   Fair is fair right?

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      Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      HAHAHAH! NO
      By that logic individuals should be allowed to try, convict and jail people or own nuclear weapons, it's utterly insane, not that it matters anyway in this case I gurantee the government agencies will have no trouble buying the weapons from somewhere.

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         innersmiffposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         "By that logic individuals should be allowed to try, convict and jail people or own nuclear weapons . . ."
         
         I wouldn't have a problem with this.

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            Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            In which case you are utterly nuts.
            
            It's bad eneough that there are people who want to kill innocents with a gun let alone the destruction that would be causeed by a nuclear weapon.
            
            People trying other individuals without any democratic choice on what the law is would simply become the mayhem of people jailing those they don't like and prisoner abuse etc.
            
            complete lunacy.

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               innersmiffposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               That incredible destruction is a very good incentive not to use nuclear weapons. Nukes did not arise from the free market but from governments, and governments are the only entities that want to use them. It's the military protection that grants the individuals who ordered the nukes from afar safety enough to do it. Even then, there has been only one nuclear attack. Even governments are hesitant to use them despite the protection. In real life, people will not want them.
               
               What I am talking about is private courts that answer to the individuals that voluntarily contribute to it (as part of the street-owner's contract, maybe). They would in fact be more accountable to the people than government courts as individuals only need to withdraw their funds if the court is not fair. No doubt you'll say that big corporations will buy them out. Maybe, but the court's survival still rests on the user's willingness to contribute to it. If government courts get corrupted, there's nothing we can do about it.

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                  John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  So which of Hiroshima and Nagasaki wasn't a nuclear attack?
                  
                  They happened on two separate days so hardly can be described as one attack. The second long enough after the first for the perpetrators to understand the full horror of what they had done.

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                     Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     What would you have done John?

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                        John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Irrelevant, whatever I would have done wouldn't have any affect whatsoever on whether it was one attack or in fact two.

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                           Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           No,no,no....it's not going to be that easy.
                           
                           You said something there about perpetrators or some such.
                           What would you have done with Japan?
                           It's far from irrelevant it apparently speaks to your belief that although we were attacked we were supposed to bend over, kiss our butts, and just let them all roll right over us, evil that we are.

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                              John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              No, I just pointed out that rather than one attack there were two.

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                              Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              With Japan presumably John would not have opened Japan by force a few decades before WW2 by opening fire on Tokyo with cannon and John probably would not have threatened to invade unless Japan promised to trade with the USA and John might not have declared an absolute trade embargo on Japan and John probably would not have intentionally lured Japan into WW2 as the US did (proven by the documents sourced below).
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_note
                              
                              "How we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves." Henry Stimson, US Secretary of War.

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                                 John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 

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                                 Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Wikipedia?
                                 
                                 Sorry....fail.

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                                    John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    What's wrong? Not right wing enough for you?

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                                       Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       No....
                                       
                                       Anyone can write an article there.
                                       Who's editing and fact finding?
                                       Sorry...........fail.

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                                          John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          The site is constantly edited and you can view edits.
                                          Although anyone can write a piece for wiki, anybody can edit it as well.
                                          References and citations must be listed, if they aren't then feel free to ignore the information but generally it is more accurate than something published by somebody with an agenda and offering no opportunity to correct.
                                          
                                          Try signing on as an editor and making a false correction then see how long it lasts.

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                                             Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                             Sorry.....my children are not allowed to use Wikipedia as reference sources.
                                             End of discussion about Wikipedia.

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                     innersmiffposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     All right, if you're going to be pedantic about it - two attacks. We haven't seen one since, but we're still in a state of paralysing fear about being attacked.

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                        innersmiffposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        The only non-governmental institutions with the resources to get a nuke would be massive corporations. Imagine Microsoft building nukes. That would be a smart move . . .

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                           John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           You don't understand, non-governmental institutions have all the resources of government at their disposal.

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                              innersmiffposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              They don't have the legal power to steal and murder, in the form of taxation and declaration of war. Government is defined by its monopoly on force.

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                                 John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 And who holds all the power in government?

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                        John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, it suits the government (in the form of corporations) to keep us in a world of fear, we are far less likely to see the junk that is being thrown at us from our own if we believe it is being done so to protect us from evil forces.

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                     Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Ok...once again.
                     Here is your statement. God forbid a nation defend themselves and try to end the attempt of another nation......whose Emperor proclaimed himself God....to subjugate the human race.
                     
                     What do you think should have been done.

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                        John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I might be wrong but I have no memory of ever writing that and it certainly doesn't match my "tone of voice" but I may be wrong.

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                           Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Look at what I posted and your quote I am referring to is there.
                           You squirm around and try to change things when you don't want to answer a question.
                           It was about Hiroshima dn Nagasaki and you were talking about the perpetrators(US) should have been horrified by the first bomb. Problem was Japan didn't get the message, not us.

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                              John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Well give me a link to the message and then I can eat humble pie.

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                     Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Read above.

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                        John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        How do you get to "God forbid a nation defend themselves and try to end the attempt of another nation......whose Emperor proclaimed himself God....to subjugate the human race." from what I actually wrote?

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                           Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           "The second long enough after the first for the perpetrators to understand the full horror of what they had done."
                           
                           That's the last part of your statement.
                           Obviously you believe the second should have never been dropped.....well either of them.
                           My question was what would have been your solution to resolve the situation?

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                              John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              I don't honestly know but I would like to think of a solution that didn't involve the death of so many children.

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                                 whoisitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Always using children!

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                                    John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    No, I'm not always using children!
                                    
                                    Perhaps the answer lies in an examination of the USAs perceived role in world affairs. Japan only attacked the US because they saw them as a threat to their own expansionist policies.

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                                       whoisitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Oh, well then I guess its ok. After all its our fault.

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                                          John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          How about equal fault?

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                                             whoisitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                             How about it didn't turn out well for them?

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                                                John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                So you reckon the victor is always blameless then?

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                                                   whoisitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                   Wouldn't have been a problem if they had not attacked.

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                                                      John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                      Wouldn't have been a problem if they hadn't viewed the US as interventionist.

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                                                         whoisitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                         What? We are now responsible for what others think?

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                                                            John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                            |You don't know very much about your own countries foreign policies do you?

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                                                               whoisitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                               Do you have anything else besides the usual cliches?

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                                                                  John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                  Uncomfortable fact = cliché!

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                                                                     whoisitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                     Uncomfortable? Not really, I only care about my country not any others.

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                                                                        John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                        And that is the big flaw in USA foreign policy - they care not a whit about other countries and other people, only themselves!
                                                                        
                                                                        And then you wonder why you are attacked!

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                                                                           whoisitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                           And you wonder why they get the crap kicked out of them!

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                                                                              Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                              Except when they don't, or are we just pretending Vietnam never happened?

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                                                                        psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                        That is a bit frightening.

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                                                                           John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                           But, unfortunately, rather typical.

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                                                                           Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                           It's a thing called reality.

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                                                                              John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                              Which makes it not one bit less frightening!
                                                                              
                                                                              I heard on the radio the other day that one of Obama's side kicks was going on a foreign tour, the first time he had left the USA! This from a government that sees itself as the world leader, formed by people who have no idea what the rest of the world is like!
                                                                              
                                                                              And you then wonder why some people get uptight with you and try to harm you!

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                                                                                 Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                                 John how can you disagree with this administration?
                                                                                 Are you racist?
                                                                                 Because that's the only reason....according to the press....that you could possibly disagree with Barack Obama and his administration.

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                                                                                    John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                                                    I neither agree nor disagree, I just don't see them as left wing.

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                                                         Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                         You would have thought they would have engaged Germany who actually wanted the US to get involved.
                                                         Right?

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                                                            John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                                            Er wrong, Germany viewed the US as allies and did not want to get them involved.

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                                 Barefootfaeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 I agree.............isn't that amazing?
                                 The point being what choice???????

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                              whoisitposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              He would hold a sign up saying STOP!

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      John Holdenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's a shame that your fellow countrymen are not so keen on upholding the first, fourth, fifth and sixth amendments as well! Where they to do so there might be less need to fight for the second.

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   innersmiffposted 11 years ago

   Absolutely! But it's always been one rule for us, another for them. That's what government is all about.

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      Old Poolmanposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      There lies the rub.  It is a "Do as I say, not as I do" mentality that is making us nuts.

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   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   If they want to turn away the business, that is up to them.  European makers will be happy to take the contract.

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   whoisitposted 11 years ago

   Peggy Noonan said it best.
   
   "It is always cliffs, ceilings and looming catastrophes with Barack Obama. It is always government by freakout. "

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   whoisitposted 11 years ago

   Isoroku Yamamoto said
   "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."
   
   That is exactly what they did!

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   Barefootfaeposted 11 years ago

   Now that we have gotten all off topic which I suspect was intentional, I hail the manufacturers who want to keep things real.

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