This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: "https://hubpages.com/privacy-policy#gdpr"

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
jump to last post 1-2 of 2 discussions (25 posts)

Does anyone support this? Healthcare Edition.

  1. profile image0
    JaxsonRaineposted 5 years ago

    John and Carl are identical twins. John exercises, eats well, doesn't smoke, and gets plenty of fresh air. Carl smokes, eats McDonalds, sits around all day on the couch watching his Soaps.

    Is there any reason why anybody thinks that John and Carl should pay the same amount of money for health insurance?

    1. Clint Ward profile image61
      Clint Wardposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      No, but the chances of them paying the same are almost nil, Carl will probably get free health care while John pays for his.

      1. profile image74
        Education Answerposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        John better pay up, or the Left will call him uncompassionate.

    2. bBerean profile image60
      bBereanposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      When I was a kid, their names were Goofus and Galant.  wink

    3. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I have to say yes on that one.    Unless maybe you can provide more balanced info.
      You haven't given enough specifics to compare the two.
      It's an unhealthy thing for Carl to smoke, yes.  But it's very possible that John has some habits that could make him a high risk too.    Insurance companies, for instance, used to ask if a person engages in risky sexual activity like multiple partners and/or homosexual activity.    I'm not sure if they ask those questions now or not!    But they should, since they ask about smoking and drinking.   (Dunno if they ask about drinking or not, come to think of it).

      And McDonalds is simply under attack by competitors and/or health-food nuts who think they should be able to tell everyone what to eat now.      However, it might equal out if they also monitor who goes to those insect bars and how often they eat raw fish and who doses themselves with energy drinks, etc.

      What I'm saying is that your scenario is too vague.   And rather biased, I think, since you mentioned McDonalds and smoking and yet omitted other possibilities.

      1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image60
        Dont Taze Me Broposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Carl can't pay anything  for health insurance because he has no job and spends what money he sucks off the government (probably from welfare or unemployment) so the left says Carl shouldn't pay anything for healthcare because the government can tax John's income to pay for his brother - that's only fair and isn't that what government is for?

      2. profile image0
        JaxsonRaineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Brenda

        I'm sorry if you can't understand the concept of the hypothetical. The concept is that one person tries to keep from harming himself, and the other person constantly harms himself.

        The question is, should people pay the same for insurance and healthcare if they take care of themselves, as people who don't?

        I'm sure you knew that, but you just want to complain that I didn't outline each person's attitudes toward every possible dangerous/harmful scenario? Get real.

    4. PrettyPanther profile image83
      PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      If they receive the same coverage, they should pay the same amount of money for it.

      1. profile image0
        JaxsonRaineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Even though, statistically speaking, the one is going to be a much larger burden on the insurance company? That doesn't make any sense, why shouldn't the insurance company be allowed to adjust for risk?

        What you are talking about is subsidizing, forcing someone to pay for someone else.

        How would you like it if you had to pay higher home insurance rates because everybody else refused to lock their doors and got robbed every month?

        1. PrettyPanther profile image83
          PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          When it comes to health care, I believe everyone should be treated equally regardless of their specific individual choices.  To me, it's just the right thing to do.

    5. Cody Hodge5 profile image60
      Cody Hodge5posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      I like the "John gets plenty of fresh air"....I know what you mean, its just funny because it makes him sound like a pet or something

      Anyway, being serious now...

      Brenda is right that there are a lot of factors that we don't know about here.

      What is Carl's BMI?
      What does he eat at McDonalds?
      How much does he smoke each day?

      What is their family history? If there is a history of heart disease or other health problems, they could both be equally prone to certain types of health problems no matter what they do.

      The only thing I think Carl should have to pay for is his smoking habit. Other than that, its a pretty vague scenario.

      1. profile image0
        JaxsonRaineposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Again, this isn't a discussion about specifics, but concepts. Should healthcare costs be the same for people who take care of themselves as they are for people who damage themselves?

        1. Cody Hodge5 profile image60
          Cody Hodge5posted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Well, people assume that exercising will keep you in better shape and lower your risk of health problems. However, recent studies have shown that the only thing that matters is what we put in our body.

          Therefore, the fact that John exercises could be meaningless. Again, the only thing I would charge Carl more for in this scenario is smoking because it has been proven that smoking even a few cigarettes can lead to permanent damage in the future.

          Unless a doctor has examined the two people in this scenario, you can't assume one is healthy and one is not based on assumptions.

        2. Sherry Hewins profile image96
          Sherry Hewinsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          What about health issues that are not dependent on your actions? Plenty of health conditions are genetic, should you be charged more based on the fact that your dad had a heart attack or your mom had breast cancer at 50? What if you were born with a hereditary disease? In the past insurance companies were allowed not only to charge more, but to deny coverage at any price, to people they defined as high risk.

    6. Josak profile image60
      Josakposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Because no one deserves to die for making dumb choices. Because our lives are not a commodity to trade for value like so much rice. Because ultimately the value of an innocent human life is worth infinitely more than your concept of fairness in insurance payment plans.

      I can go on all day.

      1. PrettyPanther profile image83
        PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        +1

      2. profile image74
        Education Answerposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Josak,

        This is sanctimonious rhetoric.  Yes, nobody deserves to die because of poor choices. Conversely, nobody deserves a free ride because of poor choices.  Compassion isn't giving, giving, giving.  Compassion is helping people get out of poverty in the first place.  Once people are out of poverty, they can afford health insurance, IF they want it.  We'd be far better off developing a robust economy where more people are employed and have insurance.  Then, we'd be better off focusing on why  our healthcare and insurance are so expensive.  Instead, how's our job growth?  Have you seen the last numbers?  I know (sigh),  the sequester, George Bush, COMPASSION, racism, and uneducated conservatives. . .  Unemployed and underemployed people typically don't have health insurance. 

        How can you be against helping people out of poverty so they can afford health insurance IF they want it?  Doesn't that beat having socialized healthcare for people still in poverty?  People in poverty deserve better than this kind of "compassion."

        1. PrettyPanther profile image83
          PrettyPantherposted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Just curious.  How do you help people out of poverty by charging them more for their health insurance if they eat at McDonald's?

          1. profile image74
            Education Answerposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            ?  What ?

        2. Cody Hodge5 profile image60
          Cody Hodge5posted 5 years agoin reply to this

          Talk about sanctimonious rhetoric....

          1. profile image74
            Education Answerposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            This kind of "I know you are but what am I?" statement is pointless.  Now it's just juvenile rhetoric.

    7. prettydarkhorse profile image64
      prettydarkhorseposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      They should pay the same amount, period. Lifestyle background check is already included in applying for health insurance? Oh no. The causal factors which will make that other person to be a burden to the health insurance company is obscure because there are many factors to consider. What if the other one pays more tax, etc.

  2. Sherry Hewins profile image96
    Sherry Hewinsposted 5 years ago

    I recently purchased a new health insurance policy. They took a complete medical history, asked about smoking and drinking, drug use (prescribed, OTC, and recreational). Blood pressure, cholesterol etc. But no questions about diet or exercise at all. If the twins in question were both signing up for this insurance, the one who smokes would pay more. It would only matter what he ate if it showed up on his medical tests. I guess that was the question. BTW, there are plenty of people with good jobs who smoke, don't get any exercise, and eat poorly.

    1. Dont Taze Me Bro profile image60
      Dont Taze Me Broposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      They don't sit around all day on the couch watching Soaps!

      1. Sherry Hewins profile image96
        Sherry Hewinsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

        Maybe they work at night. Besides, it seems to me that there are two separate issues here. If a person was on public assistance, but lived a healthy life, would that make a difference to you?

        The original question asked if they should pay the same, that seems to indicate that they are both going to be paying.

 
working