GM - $5 billion profit last year!

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JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago
Oh yeah, and a $34 billion tax benefit.

Why isn't the left pissed off about GM? We've given them $36 BILLION in tax benefits over the last couple of years. They haven't paid any taxes, and with this new benefit they likely won't for another two decades, if even then.

Where is the 'Everyone has to pay their fair share!' crowd?

Romney pays 14%, he's a tax cheat. Obama pays 18%, crickets. GM pays -680%, crickets.

Bunch of hypocrites is all.
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So Obama made less and paid more percentage wise, nothing hypocritical about that, cool now that we have that sorted
  
  Yeah GM should be paying taxes and it's ludicrous to just hold up failing companies.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  It's hypocritical to criticize Romney and not criticize Obama. Both are under the statutory rates, and Obama is actually further under his statutory rate than Romney was.
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  How? He made less is worth a 50th of what Romney is and paid more percentage wise.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Romney's statutory rate is 15%. Obama's is(probably) 35%.
  
  Which is closer to the statutory rate? 14-15, or 18-35?
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Again #1 How? #2 Can you provide sources #3 Probably?
  
  Not that any of it is relevant the argument was always a moral one and if your moral argument is that the guy who is worth one 50th, made less and paid a higher percentage has the moral lower ground on this issue I don't think you will get far
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  What do you mean how? Different types of income are taxed differently, that's how.
  
  How about the guy who pays more taxes in one year than the other guy pays in a lifetime? Shouldn't he have the high moral ground?
  
  You're right though, you have brought us off-topic. The point is the hypocrites who criticize one person for not paying his 'fair share', when he just pays according to the tax code, and doesn't criticize another who does the same thing... and further doesn't criticize a corporation that is still syphoning money off of other tax payers.
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  Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I have seen a lot of criticism of the bailouts form the left and from the special aid accorded to large companies which from a leftist perspective should not be helped at all. No one ever accused us of loving big business too much
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I haven't seen hardly anything.
  
  I haven't seen a single person criticize Obama's tax rate, or criticize GM.(outside of this thread)
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, so you're giving Romney a break because of a loophole in the law?
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Nope. I'm saying if you criticize one person for paying only 93% of the statutory rate, but don't criticize another person for only paying 51% of the statutory rate, then you are being hypocritical.
  
  I'm not making statements about right or wrong. I'm making statements about the inconsistencies of peoples' positions. If you read what I wrote, you would know that.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Much like your own You usually don't attack business.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Point out my inconsistency then.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And I reject your premise that Romney somehow paid more because of the irony that earned income should somehow be taxed more than unearned income.
  
  Yes, I understand that investment income is taxed less because the government wants to encourage investment, it still seems weird though.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say he paid more because of his tax bracket. I said he paid closer to his statutory rate than Obama did. Seriously, just read.
  
  Want to know what doesn't make sense? Someone saying that they think the investment tax rate should go up, even if it hurts the economy, in order to make it more 'fair'.
  
  It doesn't make sense that someone would purposefully harm America to try and make it more 'fair'.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  "Romney pays 14%, he's a tax cheat. Obama pays 18%, crickets."
  
  Obama still pays a higher percentage of his income in taxes....
  
  "How about the guy who pays more taxes in one year than the other guy pays in a lifetime? Shouldn't he have the high moral ground?"
  
  No, because the guy who "paid more" still makes more even if he didn't actually pay more as a percentage of his income in the previous year.
  
  Trying to make your case based on a technically is still a premise I reject.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  1 - Yes, I know. I didn't say otherwise.
  2 - Ok
  3 - I'm not basing my case on a technicality. You aren't even getting the whole point of the thread.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No, I get it. You're trying to say that Obama paid less than Romney when its not true.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Seriously, learn to read. That's not what I'm saying.
  
  Obama paid a higher percentage. Fact.
  Obama paid a lower dollar amount. Fact.
  Obama was further under his marginal rate than Romney was. Fact.
  
  Stop making up straw man arguments, it's unbecoming.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And I'm saying I reject your premise and YOU are the one reaching.
  
  Obama paid 18 percent of his income in taxes
  
  Romney paid 14 percent of his income in taxes
  
  18 is more than 14
  
  It doesn't matter how many dollars he paid because the tax system is based on percentage, not total dollars.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  18% is more than 14%. Just like I said. Why are you arguing the same thing that I just said?
  
  It's still true that Romney paid more dollars than Obama, isn't it?
  
  What premise are you rejecting? Be specific please.
  EDIT: Seriously, why can't you understand what you read? I say Obama paid a higher percentage than Romney, and you say 'Nu-uh! Obama paid a HIGHER percentage!'
  
  LEARN TO READ
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  Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  How is this different than most major companies? Seems the "left" on here is constantly saying business should pay its fair share.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Most major companies pay about a 30% effective tax rate. GM paid a -680% rate last year.
  
  The difference is that the same people and groups who criticize Romney, criticize GE(erroneously), don't also criticize GM and Obama for their tax rates.
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  Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And I believe they should pay the same taxes as everyone since the money the government gave them obviously was the right thing to do for them... but they should pay their fair share like everyone else should.
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  Superkevposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Think it has something to do with the fact that Obama ignored federal laws on bankruptcy in order to hand over control of GM to his union friends??
  
  Things that make you say, hmmmmmmmm.
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Cody Hodge5posted 11 years ago
Whoa.....never said the rate should go up. And there isn't a alot of historical evidence to prove that increasing the investment tax rates discourages investment.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No, I'm talking about Obama. He said that.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Sure, but that still only applies to higher income earners, and there is no hard evidence to support that higher capital gains rates causes people to invest less of their money.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say that.
  
  I said it doesn't make sense to say you would purposefully hurt the country in order to try and make it more 'fair'.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Did he actually say "I'll purposely hurt the country to make things fair." or did he say that he was going to rise investment income tax rates and in your opinion it would hurt the country?
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  He said that, even if he knew that raising those rates would hurt the economy, he would do it anyway.
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JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago
Cody, since you don't seem to be able to understand, let me repeat the point of the thread.

It is hypocritical for a person or group to criticize, say, Romney for not paying the marginal rate, but not criticize Obama for not paying the marginal rate. It is also hypocritical for a person or group to criticize, say, GE for not paying enough taxes, but not criticize GM for not paying enough taxes.
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Cody Hodge5posted 11 years ago
"Romney pays 14%, he's a tax cheat. Obama pays 18%, crickets."

You're initial assertion is people should be outraged that Obama paid a higher percentage.

"Obama Paid Less Because His Marginal Rate Was Higher"

OK, but Obama still paid a higher percentage of his income.

"Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country"

Three quotes from you. Essentially you claim that Obama paid less than Romney, people should be outraged about it and Obama is a moron.

The only problem is that Obama paid a higher tax rate, your second point is an attempt to change the debate and the last assertion is mere conjecture and speculation.

So again, what's the point of this thread other than you ranting about a problem that doesn't exist?
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  1 - No. My initial assertion is that Obama also pays less than the marginal tax rate.
  
  2 - I never said that.
  
  3 - I never said that.
  
  Now you're resorting to lying? Good grief..
  
  If you want to know the point of the thread, read the first post. Then, if you are still confused, read this:http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/112473? … ost2394929
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, you're denying that you said items 2 and 3? Just admit that you lost Jaxson, it's OK, it happens to the best of us.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't. Get the links for each post where I said those. You put something different than what I said, put it in quotes, and pretended I said it.
  
  So come on, where are the links?
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  CODY HODGE5 WROTE:
  
  Whoa.....never said the rate should go up. And there isn't a alot of historical evidence to prove that increasing the investment tax rates discourages investment.
  
  Your Response:
  
  No, I'm talking about Obama. He said that.
  
  So there's evidence of number 3
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Nope.
  
  Link to the post where I said "Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country".
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Hahah this is over Jaxson, you lost......its cool
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Link to it. If I said "Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country", then just link to it.
  
  You can't, so admit it.
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JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago
Cody, FYI, it is intellectual cowardice to make up quotes for your opponent. You made up two phrases, stuck them inside quotes, and attributed them to me.
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JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago
Since you don't seem capable...

In this post: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/112473#post2394847 I said
"Want to know what doesn't make sense? Someone saying that they think the investment tax rate should go up, even if it hurts the economy, in order to make it more 'fair'."

You replied here: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/112473#post2394857

"Whoa.....never said the rate should go up. And there isn't a alot of historical evidence to prove that increasing the investment tax rates discourages investment."

To which I replied here: http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/112473? … ost2394860

"No, I'm talking about Obama. He said that."

'That' is a pronoun, referring to the first post. I never said what you quoted me as saying. Admit it.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  OK, assuming that's true....
  
  Did Obama ever say that, or is that your opinion? Because if he didn't say that, then I'm correct saying that this was just your opinion and its mere speculation.
  
  So unless he actually said that, nice try.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  So do you admit that you lied about what I had said?
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Uh no.....you made a claim
  
  Then tried to deny it
  
  But you made the claim
  
  How am I lying?
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  The quotes. You said that I said both of the following.
  
  "Obama Paid Less Because His Marginal Rate Was Higher"
  
  "Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country"
  
  You can't link to a post where I said either. Admit it, you lied. I didn't say either of those quotes.
  
  I never denied a claim that I made, you just can't read. And you have lied. Do you seriously have no integrity at all?
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JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago
Cody, also waiting for you to LINK to the post where I said "Obama Paid Less Because His Marginal Rate Was Higher".

Can't do that either, right? I swear, there is no integrity left, why is it so hard to be honest when you are discussing something? Outright lies that are easily verified to be lies, and you act like they're still the truth?
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Cody Hodge5posted 11 years ago
Nope. I'm saying if you criticize one person for paying only 93% of the statutory rate, but don't criticize another person for only paying 51% of the statutory rate, then you are being hypocritical.

I expect you to spin that now....
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  1 - So do you admit that you lied about what I had said?
  
  2 - Why would I spin that? You said I was giving Romney a break, and I said no.
  
  3 - Why do you put what I didn't say into quotes, but not put quotes around what I did say?
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Your good with semantics and with giving people runarounds.....but you're argument is flawed and the more you keep trying to label me as a liar for merely pointing out things that YOU said is not going to score you any points.
  
  I'm sorry Jaxson, you claimed that Obama said that he was going to raise the tax rates on investment income. Unless you can prove that, you are merely spouting out conjecture and speculation.
  
  Now, you are just trying to spin the conversation to make me look like I lied. Funny thing is, the more you quote, the more you keep proving my points.
  
  I know you think you're smarter than everyone, but I'm not gonna just agree with your spin and your changing of the narrative. I've debated with you/seen your other debates to know that this is how you roll.
  
  Just admit that you're wrong, and no amount of spin can change that.
  
  Now, I'm done with the topic, have fun yelling at your computer about how there isn't any more integrity or something.....
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  1 - I didn't say those things. You're lying. If I said those things, you could link to the post where I said them. You falsely attributed quotes to me, that's lying.
  
  2 - You have the audacity to act like I must provide the quote of what Obama said, after you refuse to show where you got your made-up quotes that you attributed to me?
  
  3 - You lied. You made quotes. It's fact. I didn't say those things. That's fact. Prove me wrong. I dare you. Link to the posts where I said those two things. You can't, because you lied, and you won't own up to it, because you have no integrity.
  
  4 - You call it spin when you make up straw man arguments. It's another cowardly tactic, when you can't argue against what I say, so you make up quotes.
  
  That's right. Run away. You lied and you got caught, so you'll play the 'I win, I'm leaving now' card. Any respect I had for you is gone.
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Cody Hodge5posted 11 years ago
Lol, you're accusing me of plagiarism now.....

All the quotes are in the thread for anyone who wants to read it in its entirety...unless Jaxson deletes or edits them.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And yet, you can't link to a single one...
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said, you have said everything I've accused you of saying.....and I copied/pasted from the thread itself unedited.....
  
  Again, I'm done.....I hope not respecting me somehow makes your argument better and restores integrity in the world.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You didn't copy a single instance of me saying one of those two quotes.
  
  You're still lying. I never said
  "Obama Paid Less Because His Marginal Rate Was Higher"
  or
  "Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country"
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Cody Hodge5posted 11 years ago
72JaxsonRaineposted 3 hours ago
CODY HODGE5 WROTE:

Whoa.....never said the rate should go up. And there isn't a alot of historical evidence to prove that increasing the investment tax rates discourages investment.

No, I'm talking about Obama. He said that.

That's on page 2
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And where in that post did I say "Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country"?
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Cody Hodge5posted 11 years ago
72JaxsonRaineposted 6 hours ago
CODY HODGE5 WROTE:

Lol, so you're giving Romney a break because of a loophole in the law?
Nope. I'm saying if you criticize one person for paying only 93% of the statutory rate, but don't criticize another person for only paying 51% of the statutory rate, then you are being hypocritical.

I'm not making statements about right or wrong. I'm making statements about the inconsistencies of peoples' positions. If you read what I wrote, you would know that.

That's on page 1
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And where in that post did I say "Obama Paid Less Because His Marginal Rate Was Higher"?
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JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago
I didn't say either of those quotes. You lied. Admit it.

Do you understand what a quote is?
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You mean those things I keep throwing at you over and over again?
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  You posted two quotes and attributed them to me. Two specific phrases, in quotes. I never once said those phrases. When asked for proof, you posted two posts that didn't contain those phrases.
  
  I never said "Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country". You're still lying.
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Cody Hodge5posted 11 years ago
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/112473#post2394847

You Said:

Someone saying that they think the investment tax rate should go up....

I Said....

Whoa.....never said the rate should go up. And there isn't a alot of historical evidence to prove that increasing the investment tax rates discourages investment.

Your Response:

No, I'm talking about Obama. He said that.

So there ya go.....there's your direct quote saying that you think Obama wants to raise capital gains rates

And with that...

I am out.....

Enjoy....

And please refrain from calling me a liar in the future its not professional
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  And nowhere in there did I say "Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country".
  
  You attributed a quote to me. A quote is word for word. I never even said the word ruin.
  
  You're lying, because you are saying that I said things that I never said. That's a lie, which means you are lying.
  
  Although, it's not your fault. You clearly don't understand what a quote is. Probably your teacher's fault.
  
  But please refrain from continuing to lie. It's not professional.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  No, I'm talking about Obama. He said that....
  
  What did he say?
  
  The investment tax rate should go up.....
  
  So yea....kinda hard to argue.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  1 - 'thinks the rate should go up' is not the same concept as 'will raise the rate'. Do you need me to explain the difference between should and will?
  
  2 - Where did I say, word for word, "Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country"? Link to the post where I said that. You can't, because I didn't, which makes you a liar.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  semantics my good man, semantics.
  
  Its all good though, you have a nice night.
  
  *Oh, if anyone else has come to the conclusion that I have blatantly lied or misquoted anything that Jaxson has said, feel free to report me or my posts*
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, not semantics. Lies.
  
  Do me a favor, don't reply to me again if all you want to do is lie about what I've said in the past.
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  Cody Hodge5posted 11 years agoin reply to this
  As always it was good talking to you....
  
  Hopefully this won't get in the way of our friendship.
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  JaxsonRaineposted 11 years agoin reply to this
  I refuse to be friends with someone who lies about what I have said, especially in digital format when I can prove I didn't and he can't prove I did.
  
  There is no integrity in such a person, and I would never be friends with someone devoid of integrity.
  
  IF you can link to the post where I said, word for word, both of those quotes, then I would admit I was wrong and apologize.
  
  IF you admitted that I never said those two quotes, then I wouldn't be as disgusted by your behavior.
  
  But I don't see either of those things happening, not after you doubled down, and quadrupled down, on claiming I said things that you just made up.
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JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago
If you're still in doubt Cody, I'm asking you to LINK, not quote, to the post where I said, word for word: "Obama says that he will raise capital gains rates and it will ruin the country"
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