Guess what ? Only a couple of them should be fired for abuse of power ? Gee , I'm just a poor white kid but I think that's a pretty good record ! And yet , there is a media driven and media fired culture-- That believe they are all Racist slave owners murdering their way through their careers .! I'm getting a little tired of the poor me stories , I for one am glad they are on the job today . I believe its time that some of us spoke up and supported a little appreciated job ! I will tell you a couple stories of police officers going out of their way to help someone when they didn't really have to at all ! Anyone want to go first ?
The best way for abuse of power to be brought to light is by the vigilance of citizens. Such is the case for Eric Garner, whose killing was caught on video by a citizen. This vigilance, and the outcry that results from such a flagrant violation of a person's rights (you can't get any more flagrant than killing another human being), does NOT mean that the people decrying the individual act of abuse are painting all cops as evil. There is something wrong with a system where a killing of an unarmed, handcuffed man is caught on video and the perpetrator does not even go to trial. I, for one, do not want to be part of such a dysfunctional system. I want it fixed. It has nothing to do with the media. It has to do with citizens who want a functioning justice system that treats all human life with the same respect.
Edited to add: That photo is from my home state of Oregon, where we not only keep it weird, we keep it fair. ;-)
"Shut it down! ALL pigs in the ground"
Chanted by demonstrators at cops in Portland. Fair huh? Non violent too I suppose.
Please stop lying about what these violent thugs are all about. And that is just one of dozens of disgusting, violent and hateful chants they like to shout.
I am from Oregon, 16 years as an LEO in California and Oregon.
You should know this my friend ! Most of us feel honored by the presence of L.E.O. 's in our lives ! Thank you for your service to all of us ! Even those who don't appreciate it .Michael Browns demise is a direct reflection of where he came from . His lack of family values ! Enough said . The rants that his Mother and step- father are responsible for ; are simply of a animalistic mentality . Of even a war time frame of mind .. "Burn this bitch down " anyone that defends that mentality , that self consuming culture ,; is a little bit twisted themselves ?
As a former police officer, military and civilian, and for all those who now wear that badge, I thank you.
As I have said again and again, our gratitude to those police officers who do it right, should never prevent us from holding accountable those police officers who do it wrong.
Respecting good police officers and holding bad police officers accountable are not mutually exclusive. We can (and must) do both.
However , not falling into the P.C. crowd by totally and vehemently denying the facts of the entire situation , the situational facts of the call , the case and the legal history of defendants , is wrong ! That my friend is what the masses do so easily !
And that is exactly why law enforcement officers must be seen to be subject to the law and not above it. In the past people have been more willing to give police officers the benefit of the doubt. But the goodwill of the public has been used up, to the point where people are no longer willing to tolerate anything that even looks like unfair treatment by the police. When the public sees rogue police officers held accountable, goodwill might be restored. The justice system plays a part in that. Prosecutors can no longer show reluctance to prosecute LEOs who may have broken the law. If that situation continues, I predict that trust between the public and law enforcement will break down even further. Rogue police officers need to be rooted out of law enforcement. That is the only way to restore trust between police and public.
Unfortunately, too many people are only concerned with their agenda and not facts. Officers will always be "seen as" racist pigs out to kill, regardless of circumstances. They will never be be seen as subject to law, but always perceived as above it, for agenda of fomenting racism and violence will not allow it.
It is thus up to those remaining to require facts, and not innuendo, lies or suppositions before proclaiming guilt. The net makes a great tool for those trying to destroy public trust as many believe whatever is written without ever needing facts - something we all need to be fully aware of and refuse to fall into the trip.
But in saying all that, you are ignoring facts yourself.
Watch this, and this. Do either of these examples seem ambiguous to you? Is there any doubt that these police officers are abusing their authority? Is it in any way unclear that these people's constitutional rights were being violated? And is there any uncertainty that the people being abused are black?
Show me the 'lies' then. Show me the 'innuendo'. Show me the 'agenda' here. The recordings are clear. These people are being molested as they go about their lawful business, and detained by threat of physical force without probable cause.
Now I've seen several comments from you expressing concern about police officers being unfairly characterised as racist, but I haven't seen any from you condemning unlawful police behaviour. I could have missed it, but let me ask you directly now. Do you condemn the type of behaviour depicted in these examples? And do you agree that the officers involved should be held to account for their unprofessional, unconstitutional and unlawful behaviour?
Why yes. There is doubt.
The first video (I didn't watch the whole thing) has no sound. It is poorly taken, apparently from a cell phone. It may have been photoshopped. It does NOT show all that was happening.
Lies: look back at the Ferguson matter, and check the comments from "observers" that hit the nets. THEN tell me there are no lies. THEN say there is no innuendo.
Can't speak to those examples, but I DO condemn the choke hold, if it happened as it appears to have gone down. At least one "cop" should be on trial for murder. The question then becomes why the grand jury did not indict; was there something I'm unaware of? Because what I've seen is very, very plain and uncalled for.
The difference is that I put far more belief into our (pitiful) justice system than I do into the racist comments from the mob - a mob that wants blood regardless of reason. You put more into comments from the mob and the net, apparently willing to put up with mob rule. You would convict based on statements from relatives, or from people so obviously racist in their outlook and demands, while I will disregard both as tainted.
And that's the bottom line; you trust the mob more, I trust the cops more.
Incorrect. It has sound throughout.
We only deal with facts remember? Unless you have evidence that this video is photoshopped, please refrain from innuendo and supposition.
I asked where the lies and innuendo are in these specific examples. So far you have not told me.
Why not? The part in the second video where he tells the young man to "shut your f*cking mouth before I slap you". You have no comment on that? When the police officer calls the young (mixed race) man a "f*cking mutt". You have no comment on that either? When the officers can be heard being violent towards the man. No comment? Then l will ask you directly. Do you believe law enforcement officers should speak and behave in that way?
Then we have a point of agreement.
I don't put belief into the justice system or into the mob. That is bias. I judge each situation on its circumstances, but never forget the wider social context. That is the most reasonable approach in my opinion. I certainly do not raise the threshold of proof just because a defendant happens to be a police officer. As for your slander against grieving relatives. Yeah let's criticise the words and behaviour of relatives who are grieving, but not the words and behaviour of a police officer who is supposedly a trained professional). If a police officer is convicted he loses his job and if jailed, his time in prison will not be pleasant. So police officer has more to lose than grieving relatives, who have already lost something worth more to them, their loved one.
No, the "bottom line" is that you are all about facts until you are presented with some that don't suit your narrative, then you "cannot speak to those examples". You can. You just won't, and that's the problem. You are quick to express your concern about police officers, but slow to speak in defence of black people who are systematically abused by law enforcement on a daily basis. And sorry, saying that you "trust the cops more" implies that if you criticise bad cops you are somehow anti-police. BS. It isn't one or the other. You can appreciate good cops AND call for bad cops to be held accountable. Those two are not mutually exclusive. Our one point of agreement is that the cop who killed Eric Garner should be on trial for murder. I'm glad we agree on something. The answer to the following question will indicate whether or not there is a problem: is he currently on trial for murder?
"Slander of grieving relatives". I don't think I've ever heard ANY "grieving relative" have anything to say except that their little Johnny was innocent and the cop belongs in jail. Even in a case here where "little Johnny" was charging a cop with a bayonet equipped rifle and was finally shot at 10' distance: a single step before skewering the cop. So no, it's not slander to point out a very basic truth that "grieving relatives" are not interested in justice or truth, just revenge.
Garner: I have a real problem here. What I saw was completely inconsistent with good or even reasonable actions. Yet the grand jury has refused to go to trial. Why? What do they know or hear that I didn't? I have not researched that case as I did the one in Ferguson, but either that jury is absolutely as guilty as the cop or there is something I don't know.
900,000 law enforcement officers - so how many bad apples does it take to spoil the barrel?
I think this thread was probably motivated by previous threads discussing racist police. Of course there are racist police, but that does not mean they are the norm. And it can probably be argued that they are the exception rather than the rule.
In this thread you have addressed a different charge, "... unprofessional, unconstitutional and unlawful behaviour"
I would like the answer to this question to be same as the one about racism, yes, there are bad cops - but they are not the norm. I do believe that is a true statement.
But, the rabbit hole your links dragged me into, (watching video after video after video), of unreasonable, (to be charitable), and outright abusive, (to be blunt), police behavior has left me pondering an unwanted conclusion that abuse of the power of the badge is much more common than most folks think.
There is the cliche' of "the thin blue line" of the police between citizens and danger, and the generally thankless job of being a law enforcement officer, but I think we all must consider another "thin line." This is one which an officer crosses when he goes from protecting society and enforcing its laws, (and dealing with jerk citizens), to abusing the authority of the badge because that authority imparts a sense of power over others. An all too common and damaging human characteristic.
The "I am a cop and you have to do what I say," or I am a cop I can do whatever I want," mentality has to be weeded out of all police agencies. Unfortunately, the police unions, and another human characteristic of "protecting our own," make this a lot more difficult than it should be.
You challenged Wilderness over his "can't comment on other examples" response... You should also have challenged everyone to look at a dozen or so of the "related" videos that are displayed on your links. I think most would come away from that experience with at least the thought that it might be more of a problem than they thought, and just maybe enough of a problem to warrant a little sunlight-enhanced discussion.
Still, I think the defense that "all cops are not bad" is a huge understatement. And I am damn glad we have the dedicated good cops that we do have, but... as you said, criticizing, condemning, and calling out bad cops, (and bad departments), isn't a conviction of all police.
You mean we've only got 2 cops killing and harassing people??? Great!!! That should make the firing simple. And we wont miss a beat.
And people all over the world will be respected, unprofiled, and alive!!!
Seems a shame that those 2 have been wreaking havoc all over the U.S. since the 70's.
Thanks for finding them. I hope that they are fired today!!!
Wait... weren't there like 4-5 cops who collectively killed Garner???
For the record, I do not hate police officers. I have a very good friend, since high school, who is one. He's s good guy, but a bit "authoritative".
I've heard him in action once. Possibly provoking, a teensy weensy bit...
But I do know better than to judge a whole population, based upon the actions of a few.
I know for an undisputed fact; there are good cops out there... somewhere.
I kina wonder sometimes about the mood of America , Perhaps all the finger pointing is simply the easiest thing to do in social situations . I just googled a cops salary ! There are a lot of cops that are young , so we have to ask ourselves ; Why would someone take such a social chastising as a cop , He - She makes about $ 28, 000 dollars a year . Who in their right mind would put up with an un-appreciating public ? Lets face ,its a young man - woman's job to be responsible for the physical , stress related part of that job . Look around , see any old cops ? Not many .
So , they do it for the one reason that anyone would or should perform a public service job , they like the social betterment and the rewards that come with that contribution ! I don't know about you but I have to imagine when he kisses his daughter goodbye in the morning ,,he has to wonder , Will I make it home tonite ? When he stops an unknown car with dark glass all around , he must wonder if the bullet that shatters the traffic noise will come from this car or the next one ? I don't know but I say they are far above the rest of us when it comes to integrity , character and compassion !
Hey Man , Woman in blue ------ for that often unappreciated contribution Thank you !
A refreshing sentiment and as I still have some contacts in law enforcement, I will pass this on.
Having graduated from military MP training, the Orange County and LA County Sheriff's Academy (1960's), much has changed with law enforcement over the years and in my antiquated opinion some of it is bad. I do not like the idea of police officers dressed in military style combat uniforms or some of the military style combat vehicles now used, as in Ferguson. This borders on a Gestapo mind set and if such a situation requires this response, as in Ferguson, then it should be brought on by the governor and the National Guard, sadly it was not.
Police Officers, as all public servants to include all levels of government, should be held to a higher level and should that public trust be violated stiffer penalties should apply.
Much of what is happening today has little to do with bad cops, but much to do with a disdain for America as I and many others were called child killers returning from Vietnam. These protests were not against the military, but America as a whole.
As I am running out of space and as you noted the current average police salary, mine was $6,000 per year, but then gas was about .40 a gallon.
Wow, 900,000 cops in America.
Is that not counting the nearly 800,000 prison employees?
There 2.3 million people locked up and 85% of them are for nonviolent offenses. When I was young, cops were one of the most respected people in the community, today they are one of the most feared.
And when I was young when you chased a suspect and got a hand on them, they said 'fair play' and gave up, not pull a gun and try to kill you.
Or that's what an old hairbag LASO sergeant who still carried dump pouches in the late 80's once told me.
Even when I started it was still somewhat rare to see an AK-47 in the wild, now days, it's pretty much par for the course. Even back then we had begun to describe ourselves as 'Society's Garbage Men", and some of you cop haters need to consider how true that is and how much it can affect what begins as a basically moral person after few years.
I've seen a bright, shiny devout Mormon rookie turn in to a womanizing alcoholic after a few years dealing with the people and things you have to see. If there was ever a person who came to this job because he truly wanted to help, it was this guy.
Castle -- Wilderness , It seems that we as a society have evolved from our old fear of the "big bad boogy-man " , at least in America , to simply another intellectual level of that ! We now fear the big bad authoritive figure , be that your daddy or the star trooper down at the police station ! Laugh if you will but its true . From early education on through and especially university or college level educations , our children are indoctrinated by the new liberal education system to fight against all standards .of authority . And in reality this is nothing new , it began in the sixties in our system ! If it wears a uniform , it must be evil . If it tells you where to stand , how to line up or how to obey an order or even something as simple as conforming to an instruction , Then fight it , fight it fight it !
America did give me my greatest passion and Love of my lifetime, sculpture work.
Thought Canada and America were the bravest; and had the highest freedom in the world, back in the 70’s 80’s an 1990’s. After traveling 94 countries, have some insight to share.
I’m a lover not a fighter, God fearing Christians who believe most of us will be punished in hell,that is their thing. My Parent’s lied about Santa clause, now we have parenting Government lying about everything and turned it into our greatest pastime. Wake up, be honest! Why is fear controlling us more than love, in the land of the sheeple.
Today in North America most people’s jobs and housing are not sustainable. Many countries I know, most citizen do own their own house, work with no debts.
Today you can hardly tell between militarily and police. The Government/military/prison complex are the largest and riches corporations in the world. They have brainwashed us into
Faceless, Ugly Corporation Show Business. Cops kill eight times greater than all the American terrorist groups combined. Should the public be checking Cops for danger in every big building and transportation in America? Sugar kills 30 times more along with tobacco killing 30 times greater than all illegal drugs combined, How about locking them up. because 95% of crime is Occupational,
How many really care about being a slaves anymore, Grow up or go back to sleep America, it’s another crazy artist trying to love the world “MESSAGE”
I no longer taking sake in our recession headed for a deep depression been crushed too many times
Just preparing for it and recording the freak show and investing into other countries.
Castlepalloma, , sounds like you've got it all about figured out now ! No sense arguing with that . Except to say it sounds like you're one of those that love the freedoms of north America and resent anything of the "paying the fiddler " for the freedoms you don't mind enjoying !. Good luck .
Who do you call when you are robbed or your credit card is stolen? As the daughter of a former LEO I am convinced NOBODY should be convicted and punished by the media. Pictures speak a thousand words, but perspective changes the story.
Often police act like a big lost and founds. Murderer or grand theft gets put on the back burners compared to people who grow green plants like cannabis, mushroom, opium or Cocaine to willing customers. Sometimes Prisons will let go child molesters in order replaced them with cannabis offenders. Welcome to harder crime college, these plant lovers will most likely return to prison to support big corporate sponsor’s lifestyle and both parties will learn to be more harmful.
There was no reason why I’ve been mugged three times and had police guns pointed at my head three other times. I rather be mugged a hundred times than to trust another gun pointed at my head. It takes only one mistake or a fool or a little skill to pull a trigger and to end my tic for tat lifestyle. Don’t even have a police record or do, grow drugs. Next time muggers tried to beat me to death, I'll call the cops and say these muggers have pot on them because only 13% are violent offenders are in prison, then they will be there in a heart beat..
Many Countries around the world are sick and tried of American bulling them over drugs and
their oil. When these countries drop the US Dollar (backed by oil) Then the American Justice system and Military will be in the same boat of the second wave of depression. Finally, I’ll be back in business with green shelter and green energy, prior to being ripped apart by the legal systems.
Reverse the budget from leading terrorist of the world Miltatity/Prisom complex. And give it to green living and education approaches to an organization of widespread ecological modernization, a sustainable societies within the frame of the current global capitalist. Our current crisis is climate change, polution of the earth, uneven development, and economic instability. Why keep giving to huge profits of the top two money bussiness in the world, Miltary/Prison Complex IN ORDER to treat us like unhealthy slaves.
Oh No!!! the FED heard me, helicopters FLYING ABOVE, military are crushing THROUGH my Roof ATTACHED to Ropes. DON’T SHOOT MY DOG. LEAVE MY garlic GARDEN ALONE! it grows better indoors.
Stay tune, Bye
I look at the "related hubs " list victimhood below and realize something . Liberals love victimhood , any kind of victimhood ! Police , federal troops , Nazi- dressed marchers holding star wars swords , women dressed in black leather - ooops we won't go there though , that might offend tem !
Victimhood Liberals, yeh?.**&$# I do love women dressed in black leather, at least it's fun in role playing.
For a few years there, I did not say anything, and allowed the Government to take away much of my business. Then they stole most of my property, ...did nothing much again. Then they separate me from most of my family and then put me in big debt, Why should I pay and worship the green killing God called “The Government” who leads the world in stealing and terrorism.
At some point, you have to say “I AM NOT GOING TAKE IT ANY MORE”!!!
Then they punish you some more, then you find out half of the time they are lying to you or they do not know what they are doing. Then you learn the Government is Public enemy number one, not Pot. Then you realize we are in a Recession Police State moving towards a Depression and War state. We deserved all the suffering and unhappiness coming to us. Why? Because when we say nothing or do nothing for your love and freedom, we allow these parasites and crooks to enslave us.
The Government design is like a fungus on a tree. The tree needs the fungus to protect and cool the tree’s roots. If the tree dose not aware the fungus will choked, cripple or kill the tree, it will. Good thing, trees don’t fight (like people) with their own braches, and the oldest tree has lived up to 10,000 years. The bible claims man can live almost to an age of 1000 years, righttt….
Is it a wonder why I like science more.
All people are basically good. The Government job is only to protect US, not to tell us how to live our lives or to kill us greater than any other group. There is nothing the private sector can not do better than what the Government can do. Except protecting our roots from illnesses, along with our collectively awareness involved, Don’t allow the Government to lead us into the destruction of them.
Castle , I'm interested in how the government took your home , business and separated you from family ?
Government claimed my sand and sculpture was too unique. It forced me into poverty, "the motherload of crimes"
Government charge me more money than I could earn. Loss my child for ten years, they took my home, and canceled my driver lience for 10 Ten. Imagine running a bussiness without a truck.
Recovering well now, built a few tiny eco homes in Centro America, BC and lately Saskatchewan tiny home community. My daughter and I are sharing an art gallery and lots of commission
sculptures to do.
Perhaps something all too well known is that , as an artist , one will more than likely always be monetarily poor ! No ? , No one knows THIS more than the poet , the painter or artist , I think . And yet maybe , as in your story , the real riches are in the reality of what you have accomplished . The love of a daughter ? The coming to fruition of a dream , these communities ? The living on of the art ?
Perhaps the further we distance ourselves from government to begin with , the more quality we will have in our lives ?
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