DEBATE: Islam is a Peaceful Religion.
Look Islam is a peaceful religion. Our every act in our daily lives reflects one thing and that is to worship one God. This is the same God for everyone (as we believe), we don't have a separate God to everyone else. Now no God is going to promote "hatred this is something that humans have invented. What ISIS is doing is not Islamic, and they are not Muslims. Even though they claim to represent Islam, they are not. Our lives are based around the spiritual worshiping of God and promoting and doing good. What Isis is doing is pure evil, this is not Islam. I have heard people say that Muslims are waiting for some sort of call that will tell us to all form a union and go on a mass killing onslaught. How rubbish are these claims, we are not in waiting for any call of the sort. Only call we are waiting for is that of the final day when all will end by God not humans.
People are also asking why aren't "moderates" (I don't like the terms moderates or extremists as it assumes definate certain qualities of a person or community, we are just Muslims, who worship one God, yes there are different denomination but our common link is one god), speaking up. Well people are speaking up however it never gets represented by the media, there is so much interfaith work going on too but it never gets talked about. Majority of Muslims and the muslim world are against against Isis, this should be enough for people to understand our allegiance. For those who go to these countries, they are being swept under the propaganda that ISIS feeds people and in most cases these are good people and when they go to these countries they realise the mistake they have made and want to return. What has happened to trusting someone on their word that they are truly reformed. Do you think a terrorist will try gain entry via this means. They would often use violence and manipulation to get in like the what happened on 9/11.Deleted
Thank you very much Mk-globetrotter am from Sydney Australia. I hope this blessed month brings much needed peace and prosperity to the world we need it so much
- Onusonusposted 9 years ago
0Moderate Islam is a myth. Here are some actual facts about Islam and the so called non extremist majority.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg I don't understand why people are getting so heated. Calm down people. Spreading hatred is what the militants want us to do we are buying into their rhetoric.
Let me remind you guys that in the 17th century Islam ruled most of Europe, the education, the art and science that emancipated from there is amazing. Most mathematical strategies used today were discovered by Muslims.
Today due to the militarization Islam has become a puppet to the very things in condems. Unfortunately corruption, dictatorship and hunger for power has tainted the religion. But let you say this clearly this does not represent the beautiful religion.
Islam is not anti-modernisation in fact it is pro mondernisation. We don't oppress women, if this was the case why would I be writing and working. Like I said in my previous posts, for us our daily live revolves around worshiping one God. So if a Muslim women covers herself she is performing an act or worship, if a Muslim pray its an act of worship. This is not oppression or terrorism it is worship, to the one god who created us.
In saying this, globally Islam has been oppressed and marginalised. Look at what is happening to the Rohinga people in Mynmar (formerly Burma). These people were the traditional owners of the land and have been forced of their own land by Budhist extremist, the oppression and suffering is scaring. Secondly lets not forget what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. When the same thing happened to the Jewish people by Hitler the world came to its aid, for the Muslims no one comes. They say that Israel has a right to protect its self. Let me ask you, who gave them the space for sanctuary? In all Western countries Muslims are living in fear of crimes of hate. In Australia there has been numerous racial attacks on trains and on the streets you can feel Islamaphobia. It is disgusting...
This is the truth I urge people to go and truly understand the religion before you go out and blatantly attack it. Go to a local mosque and talk to an actual Muslim don't depend on anti-Islamic websites for your knowledge.
The reason why Muslims will not tolerate any condemnation of the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is because he was the messenger of the word of God. We hold him with great admiration. He was not a paedophile, he gave women, children and people of colour rights in pagan Arabia times. He liberated the world. He was uneducated but when the angel gabrieal spoke to him he was able to write. This is a miracle act. His knowledge, wisdom and manners can never be duplicated, it is a known fact that God made the soul of Muhammed before he made the soul of Adam, that's how special he is to us.
I'm sorry for ranting so much but the truth needs to be told.."So if a Muslim women covers herself she is performing an act or worship,"
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1782188.stm in 2002:
"Saudi officials have criticised a US decision to lift its requirement that female staff serving in Saudi Arabia must wear the traditional Muslim body garment, the abaya, when off base.
There must be no exceptions in enforcing the Islamic dress code in Saudi streets. No one of any nationality is exempt in the eyes of religion
Saudi cleric
They said the decision flouted Islamic law. They said they would not allow US servicewomen to appear in public without the head-to-toe robe." (bolding added)
From http://wwrn.org/articles/6361/?&place=saudi-arabia
"RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudis voiced outrage on Wednesday at a U.S. decision to let American servicewomen doff the flowing black robes they previously had to wear outside U.S. military bases in the conservative Muslim kingdom.
``That means that they will be breaking our laws and that they are looking for trouble,'' said a Saudi businessman who asked not to be named.
In deference to Muslim sensitivities, the U.S. military had required women to wear the ``abayah'' robe off base since American forces were sent to Saudi Arabia in the 1990-91 Gulf crisis."
This seems to contraindicate that all covered Muslim women are praying: Islamic law (from the Saudi cleric) requires all women, Muslim or not, to be covered, praying or not. This is also called "mistreatment of women", by the way.Do you see my point that dictatoship has taken over religious requirements! !!
No. They say they worship the same thing you do - can't see that you have any right to claim otherwise.
Plus, as far as my limited knowledge of the area goes, religion has always ruled it, at least as long as it has been Islamic. The religion IS the government.Look religiously women cover up as a act of worship. This is coming into play with culture. Saudi is a conservative country that insists on conservative traditions. I personally don't believe in forcing anyone to behave and ware anything but they are conservative nation like many middle eastern nations. Islam does not teach us to force anyone, but religious fulfilment comes from within not external. So I stand by words they forcing which is not right
No, they cover up because it is the law. If they don't they are punished.
Yes, Saudi is old fashioned, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a religious law for women and one that men do not need to obey. It's called "control", and control by religious forces, which is what is under discussion.
I understand that you stand by words, but they are YOUR words and not the words of Islam in general or in specific areas. It is always interesting to me to find religious believers, of any faith, that declare that anyone not believing as they do are not of the faith even though millions of examples plainly show the opposite. Ego? Maybe, as it would certainly take a large ego to decide that a single person knows all there is to know about what god wants.
I've never denied the fact that they are a Islamic Country. But am saying the form they are practicing is extreme which originates culturally as well as Islamically. I have every right stand up for my religion. I'm not saying I know all
But I know better than you regarding my religionSo you do (know better than I). I entered this thread partially because of my ignorance, hoping to learn more about the religion as a whole.
What I see, however, is exactly what I see in the Christianity I'm more familiar with. People claiming that no one else is a true believer because they don't believe the same thing. Unending claims that only the speaker knows the right way to worship; everyone else is mistaken and cannot be considered a true Christian/Muslim. And finally a continual denial that their chosen religion is not the peaches and cream they would like to think it is. Any dirt in the mix is cultural, it is from incorrect interpretation, it is from non-believers - it is anything but the religion itself even when history plainly shows differently.
Zafirah, the Muslims of the middle east have been mistreating and killing each other since long before I was born. It is plain that it is a religion of violence; that until that propensity and acceptance of killing is erased from the religion and exchanged for tolerance of others it will remain so. That there are Muslims that think differently is encouraging - it is past time Islam evolved into something more civilized - but those people are not nearly numerous enough (yet) to control or stop the believers in the old ways. Small inroads are being made but it is not yet enough.
With all due respect, the religion has proven time and again that it is not peaceful except under extreme circumstances. You don't have to blow up the Twin Towers to be violent. And you don't have to live in a country under sharia law to be abused by the religion.
We see incidents all over the world, not excluding free countries, of women being considered property and punished severely (sometimes killed in 'honor killings') and those who practice the religion defend the acts. Women, by modern standards, have a pretty crappy life. They are considered so problematic that they have to be covered from head to toe. It appears to those on the outside that men have the problem and can't accept that they do and the women are making excuses for those male inadequacies. They are condoning the violence.
I've heard Muslims point out that women in Christianity were once expected to cover their heads. 'Cover their glory' as it is put. But, Christianity has pretty much come to understand that those were the words of a man. The guy even admitted, when he wrote them, that this was his opinion and he had no divine revelation concerning the matter.
We see people willing to spew violent words, if not violent acts, toward other human beings because they believe someone was disrespected. It doesn't matter to me what esteem Mohammed is held by another because I don't expect any one else to respect those I hold in esteem. But those within Islam don't seem to be able to grasp the concept of live and let live. We see people murdered, and an entire religion supporting those acts, when a cartoon is written which has a picture of Mohammed. Think about it. Christians worship God Incarnate, or the son of God depending on how they interpret their scriptures. Do you see anyone, in the free world, killing other people when there is a caricature of Jesus? Why is that? It's not a lack of respect. It's an ability to maintain perspective.
Many Muslims will condemn violent terrorist acts, but many others will point out that these people were 'driven' to it by the disrespect of their religion. They claim they wouldn't resort to such violence yet they do understand on some levels how others did. You don't see much of that within Christianity in the free world. I won't say that there isn't the odd voice making that claim but the majority are calling those voices out with disgust and outrage. Why is that, in your opinion?
I don't mean to disrespect your religion. I give whatever honor to the name of Allah that I give to any other name humanity has assigned to God. However, Islam makes it very clear they worship a man and that is very problematic. It is difficult to reason with those who insist on not reasoning but defending the manner humanity reasoned in the middle of the desert 1400 years ago. There is much in Mohammed's writings that disgust the modern mind. As we find in the writings of any individual who attempted to rule humanity back then.
We've seen, time and again, the horror of groups beginning to follow people who claim to speak for God. Jonestown, Waco, etc. We know the dangers of violent and radical behavior patterns created when one human gives another human carte blanc control of their conscience. When they follow blindly. You can't be unable to understand how this is exactly what Islam expects of its adherents.
I just had one more though;
Many people are stating that in recent times Christianity hasn't been tainted and you never hear of Christian extremism.
Well in Australia recently we heard that there was child sexual abuse occurring in many children's homes before the 1900s and 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s up until as recently as the 70s. This is in our life our time.
Secondly I heard only this morning of an incident in the States of an white supremacist young person entering a predominantly coloured church with the aim of shooting as many people as he could. Thank God he was stopped. I think this incident shows that no religion is full proof of extremism. You feed the fire enough fuel and it will burn. The same goes for extremism in any religion, you feed enough propaganda and you will create a fire that you alone cannot extinguish. How was this young person radicalised? How did Christianity come into play in all of this? Well people use certain texts, scenarios, ego and a will to do evil and you have your fire. The same can be done in any religious circumstance.
I hope this brings some clarity to the discussion."Many people are stating that in recent times Christianity hasn't been tainted and you never hear of Christian extremism. "
Really? Where?
"Well in Australia recently we heard that there was child sexual abuse occurring in many children's homes before the 1900s and 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s up until as recently as the 70s. This is in our life our time."
What does that have to do with Christianity?
"Secondly I heard only this morning of an incident in the States of an white supremacist young person entering a predominantly coloured church with the aim of shooting as many people as he could. Thank God he was stopped. I think this incident shows that no religion is full proof of extremism. You feed the fire enough fuel and it will burn. The same goes for extremism in any religion, you feed enough propaganda and you will create a fire that you alone cannot extinguish. How was this young person radicalised? How did Christianity come into play in all of this? Well people use certain texts, scenarios, ego and a will to do evil and you have your fire. The same can be done in any religious circumstance."
That was ANTI_Christian and probably racist sentiment, not Christian extremism.
I'm sure there are Christian extremists, but you need to use better examples.Sexual abuse done by Christian priests and this person was a neo-narcisits who christians my dear
"Sexual abuse done by Christian priests"
Not an example of religious extremism. Disgusting criminal acts, yes.
"and this person was a neo-narcisits who christians my dear"
If it was Christian extremism, he would have shot up anyone but Christians.
Like I said, you need better examples.
Unless Islam is code word for Jainism, then no, it is not a religion of peace.
This reminds me of a bit of hilarity from a fellow Hubber (can't remember who it was, but he was always funny) which I had stored on a doc file:
"Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
I have studied this verse intently and see no evidence of violence or conflict in it at all.
The term 'fight and kill' is VERY vague can be taken out of context if not understood in its proper light.
The term take them 'captive and harass them' is a common technique that I often deploy during foreplay with the wife.
Similarly, "lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." is a typical ploy used in the bar scene. When I was single, the fellows and I would have a few shots of whiskey at the bar, and then 'lie in wait until last call and ambush the ladies for their numbers because all is fair in love and war""The UK is a Christian country. Its government is made up of largely Christians and the prime minister is avowedly Christian.
Its many policies and practices are unchristian, even to the extent that people die needlessly because of them.
Nobody has ever suggested that because people die under this government and we are a Christian country that Christianity is to blame for these deaths.Islam is not simply a violent religion, it is the predominant source of violence in the world today. It begins with their false prophet Muhammad who used the gullibility of his followers to embark on a military conquest to take over the world. That was their goal from the beginning and that is the goal today. It is called a caliphate.
One of the major controversies of Islamic's today was to build a giant mosque near the world trade center after it was destroyed by Islamic extremists. This would be like Americans asking to erect a statue of President Truman at ground zero in Hiroshima. It is devoid of common sense. And to add insult to injury they originally wanted to name the mosque after the one in Cordoba Spain. That is historically the pinnacle of an Islamic conquest that occurred in Europe in the 700's. And today they wish the same thing to be erected after a massive victory against Americans.
Why? Because they hate freedom, and their ways are contrary to the precepts of America.
They believe in laws being handed from the top down through false clerics who implement the barbarism of sharia. Whereas the laws of America are of the people, by the people, and for the people.
It is that reason that free elections are unacceptable in the most oppressive of Islamic countries. The ones who most strictly follow Islamic law. In 1492 Columbus risked sailing off the edge of the Earth to avoid traveling through those countries and we should avoid them at all costs as well.
America needs to leave them to their own devices and let them kill each other, rather than spending the lives of our own sons to bring them into the modern world. They don't want it. They only want death to the infidel.It will always be difficult to convince educated people that Islam is peaceful when the Koran dictates otherwise. And you cannot fault the people who follow through violence. They are the ones who are actually reading it and applying its precepts to the real world.
I agree, but unfortunately the reply button disappears for me after a certain length in the thread. Perhaps it'll work from here.
I note that your link completely disregards the punishments prescribed for apostasy in the Sahih al-Bukhari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Hadith). I'll review it in full when I have the time, but already it's missing half of the equation.
There are also two common quotes in the Qur'an used to justify punishment for blasphemy:
The only punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is that they should be murdered, or crucified, or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned. This shall he a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement. Except those who repent before you overpower them; so know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
—Qur'an, [Quran 5:33–34]
Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment. Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time: They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).
—Qur'an, [Quran 33:57–61]Neither justify the death penalty for blasphemy, in fact they don't even mention it at all.
You'll have to take that up with the people who are using these passages as justification for the death penalty. That would include Ayatollahs. Good luck lecturing them about their own religion.
Some possible explanations:
The first passage: "mischief through the land" and "corruption" in the land (in the previous verse) could be interpreted as references to blasphemy.
The second passage: "This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations." - http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran … olence.htm
Even if they're not referring to blasphemy, there's still the minor issue of the death penalty for apostasy. That and the fact that these passages are not peaceful no matter which way you slice it.There are many passages in the bible which could not, under any circumstances, be described as peaceful and many more are often interpreted as invitations to violence.
I believe the KKK believed themselves to be acting in a Christian manner.Do you really think constantly bringing up Christianity's violence is going to somehow absolve Islam of theirs?
Just a reminder, the topic is about whether Islam is peaceful or not. If we were having a discussion about vipers being venomous, a counterpoint would not be to point to a rattlesnake and say "yeah, well rattlesnakes are venomous too!"Not at all but it does show up many Christians as hypocrites.
Today Christians are devising new ways to kill dissidents. Drowning, decapitation, tying bombs around peoples necks.
Just kidding, they're Muslims. Of course.So! show me where in the Quran it says that believers should blow up other Muslims?
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "
This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes.
Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."
This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished.
Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."
Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction."
Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."
This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do.
Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."
The root word of "Jihad" is used here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.You are like a holocaust denier. I could take you to the concentration camps and you still wouldn't believe until a Nazi actually shoved you into an oven.
The trouble with that is that you are not showing me the concentration camp, you are repeating the rumours based on translations of a thousand year old document but not allowing fair comparison with other even older documents.
What is your real life experience of Muslims? That is not what you have been told by anti Islamists but what you have actually experienced yourself.
"Shortly after the prophet of Islam had died, some Arab tribes found his death an opportunity to declare their apostasy from the Islamic faith, as they had been forcibly converted to Islam a few years earlier when Muhammad gave them the choice between converting, leaving the Arab peninsula, or being killed - based on the Quranic verses 1-5 from Surah Al Tawba. Abu Bakr the closest companion of Muhammad and the first to succeed him in ruling the peninsula, declared war on those tribes and applied the death sentence that Muhammad had set for punishing apostates:
"Sahih Bukhari Book 88 hadith 5: 'Whoever changed his religion [Islam], then kill him', a punishment mentioned several times in all six books of hadith without exception.
"What is more interesting, at that same time, some of these tribes did not leave Islam – however, they refused to pay the charity 'Zakat' to the new Caliph as they understood it as a tax only payable to Muhammad. Even though they identified themselves as Muslims, Abu Bakr considered that an act of apostasy and declared the war against them as well.
"The rationale behind his decision is explained in Sahih Bukhari Book 88 hadith 7:
"When the Prophet died and Abu Bakr became his successor and some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, `Umar said, "O Abu Bakr! How can you fight these people although Allah's Messenger said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, 'and whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', Allah will save his property and his life from me, unless (he does something for which he receives legal punishment) justly, and his account will be with Allah?' 'Abu Bakr said, By Allah! I will fight whoever differentiates between prayers and Zakat as Zakat is the right to be taken from property (according to Allah's Orders). By Allah! If they refused to pay me even a kid [young goat] they used to pay to Allah's Messenger, I would fight with them for withholding it.' `Umar said, 'By Allah: It was nothing, but I noticed that Allah opened Abu Bakr's chest towards the decision to fight, therefore I realized that his decision was right.'
"To better understand the context, here is the hadith that Umar was referring to in his short debate with Abu Bakr. Sahih Bukhari Book 8 hadith 44:
“Allah's Messenger said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'
"In addition to the complete denial of freedom of conscience that Muhammad had established by first forcing Arabs to convert, and then punishing the apostates, Abu Bakr and Umar had confirmed by this war the broad meaning of apostasy: It is not even enough for one to declare they are a Muslim to be granted safety within the Islamic state, the refusal to pay the charity or even the failure to pray is considered an act of apostasy deserving capital punishment.
"There are other hadiths that permit the killing of those who would identify themselves as Muslims but do not conform to the teachings. I chose specifically this one from Sahih Muslim Book 12 Hadith 199:
'I heard the Messenger of Allah as saying: There would arise at the end of the age a people who would be young in age and immature in thought, but they would talk (in such a manner) as if their words are the best among the creatures. They would recite the Qur'an, but it would not go beyond their throats, and they would pass through the religion as an arrow goes through the prey. So when you meet them, kill them, for in their killing you would get a reward with Allah on the Day of Judgement.'
"This hadith is so dangerously ambiguous to the point that I have heard from both sides (the so called 'Moderate' and 'Radical' Muslims) referring to it to describe the other group! "
There's a lot more here: http://www.shariawatch.org.uk/articles/ … Ymh4huqooIHe will not believe you. It is a typical example of demoralization. He only believes what he wants to believe. To him truth and reality are relative to ideology.
It strikes me that you are the one to believe only what you want to believe.
I have never denied that there are some who use their religion as a front for committing violence and control-that applies to most religions.
You have taken some translations of ancient documents to "prove" that every Muslim has violence in his heart whilst disallowing any comparison with the teaching of other religions.
Truth and reality are totally alien to you..Show me a place in the New Testament where Jesus commands the people to kill transgressors, or unbelievers.
Luke 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."Very good John. I must say that I've read that chapter several times and like all modern Christians, never interpreted it as a call to violence. But rather the judgment of God to be meted out after the second coming of Christ. (Note that he did not return until after he was made King)
You see the same story exists in the Book of Matthew except that he sends the unprofitable servant into outer darkness without actually slaying him.
Nice try though. Still don't see any Christian jihadists running around as self appointed executioners for Christ the way Muslims believe.Strange that you don't see it a call to violence when you see similar passages in the Quran as direct incitements to violence!
This might open your eyes to Christians running round as self appointed executioners for Christ.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/01/america … xtremists/The first guy didn't kill Muslims in the name of Christ.
The guy who killed Tiller was diagnosed as Schizophrenic
Robert Rudolph actually killed my great aunt. My grandmother met him before he was caught. She had him over for lunch one day. after saying a prayer over the food at lunch (as she typically did) Rudolph told her that ending a prayer in the name of Jesus meant she was praying to some Mexican.You didn't mention Muslims being killed by Christians! Never mind, remember the link you posted to a Christian beheading a Muslim.
Oh and how about the KKK?Once again comparing the KKK to Islamic extremists is like comparing a monster truck to a smart car. For every one or two isolated incidents you scrape through over the last decade, I can find people being murdered on a daily basis in the name of Allah.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur … ths-up-81/How many Americans living in the USA have been killed by Islamic extremists in the last ten years?
26 since 9/11
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st … e-america/9/11 was more than ten years ago as well!
Though 26 is 26 too many it is hardly a massacre is it?I was just giving you the numbers because you asked.
And I appreciate that.
My question was really aimed at Moshka though.
Islamic terrorists have carried out more than 26,201 deadly terror attacks since 9/11.
Monthly Jihad Report May, 2015
Jihad Attacks: 262
Countries: 25
Killed: 3,277
Critically Injured: 1,798
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
The real question would be how many people in the world have been killed by Islamic extremists in the last year. But you aren't interested in that number.
So let me give you a hand. Here's a list of Islamic terrorist attacks for 2014 and only 2014. Note that it's a long list. A very long list.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2014.htmThat's a profound source of information.
Thank you for posting that link.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Yeah, the numbers are staggering. Did you see the Ramadan bombathon numbers? They are up to day seven of their holy month, and Islamist terrorists have killed nearly 500 people and injured another four hundred and eighty.
That's a stomach-turner. So is this:
In northern Syria, Muslim terrorists are having a Quran memorization contest for Ramadan. The prize is a 15 year-old Yazidi girl kidnapped to be used as a sex slave.
"The competition is set to be held in several ISIS mosques in Syria, including the Osama bin Laden mosque. The seven day competition is set to finish on 27 June and is being held to celebrate the Muslim festival of Ramadan."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … laces.html
And impossible to verify from other unbiased sources.
You mean that it is impossible to contradict, because it is true.
No, impossible to verify and note, any "terror" attack in a Muslim country is probably going to involve Muslims whether it is driven by Islam or not.
You can verify all of those attacks, because the dates and places are all listed. Just search on Google.
Strangely enough I did search on google. For the few that I looked at strangely all came up with exactly the same wording. That is a very useful indication of plagiarism but not much use in your quest to depict Islam as the religion of hate and war, nor to brand all Muslims as homicidal maniacs.
Naturally you won't believe the truth. It is counter to your narrative of a peaceful Islam.
Here's a newly released video of some peaceful Muslims chopping peoples hands off.
http://cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapm … hands-isisSo? And that proves . . .what?
Shall I post a few links to peaceful Christians chopping peoples heads off, or lynching them?I'm sure you could find one or two, over the last ten years. But what about today?
You still don't get it. Islamists hurt people every day. They kill people every day in the name of Allah. People just don't do that in the name of Christ. But they do it for Mohammed all the time.Doing something in the name of somebody is a world away from being told by that person to do something.
2015.06.25 (Kobane, Iraq) - Women and children are among fifteen Kurds killed by an ISIS car bomb.
Today's death toll:
For Jesus - 0
For Yahweh - 0
For Allah - 15update:
2015.06.25 (Bakha Botan, Iraq) - Twenty-three civilians, including women and children, are rounded up and executed by caliphate members.
That makes a total of 38 dead for today. You just can't keep up with these guys. Still, the day's not over yet.
Spreading of peace by the sword.How many people are murdered each year in the US, out side of war?
I think we can guarantee that women in America don't suffer the same fate as women within the ISIS held territories. It's one thing to complain about US foreign policy, but incredibly far fetched to put forth the argument you are currently pursuing.
From an interview with a recent defector; a woman who was a recruiter for ISIS.
"BERLIN – A Syrian woman believed responsible for helping to deliver hundreds of young European girls to ISIS has defected, and is now warning young women of the hell that awaits them in the black-clad Islamist army's so-called caliphate.
“You are young," the defector, who used the alias Um Asma in an interview with German newspaper Bild am Sonntag, told young women considering running away to join ISIS. "The caliphate is not what you think it is. Women are whipped, sold and stoned. Corpses are on display publicly for weeks.”
If you want to defend Islam as peaceful, I wouldn't associate it with ISIS.I know. I've read your comments within this thread. You have advanced a very reasonable argument.
"Spreading of peace by the sword."
More like criminal activity disguised as religion. Get it right.
Is beheading into the 100s, 1000s, 10,000s, 100,000, or millions like American kills by guns or bombs?
I'm sure somebody will be along very soon to argue that that isn't the same thing at all.
Why not? A lot more heads roll off the body through Guns and Bombs VS. Choppers.
The most deadly animal in the world is the mosquito, 3 million deaths per year vs. a bear kills 500 humans a year. More people are more horribly horrified over bears than the mosquitos
An American kills a 1000s brown or Middle Eastern persons to each one American kill.
What is the difference other than the fear on how a person gets killed?
This thread is about whether or not Islam is a peaceful religion. And as usual people want to compare it to the historical violence in the name of Christianity.
My point is not only is violence condemned in the precepts of Christianity, but it is rare for Christians to kill anybody in the name of Christ. The Muslim religion however calls for violence and as a result we see it on a daily basis.
Yes Christians used to kill a lot of people in the name of Jesus hundreds of years ago, but that ideology is practically nonexistent in todays culture of Christians.In an ideal world there would be an equal level of cultural development.
Unfortunately it is not an ideal world and to expect people hundreds of years behind in cultural development to behave in the same way as 21st century western man is naive beyond belief.So the random acts of violence by five or six Christians over ten years you presented to me is justification for Muslims to get a pass on their daily acts of terror.
Another bomb and some beheadings in France today.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06 … criptions/
2015.06.26 (Kuwait City, Kuwait) - Sunni radicals stage a suicide bombing at a Shiite mosque, calling it the 'temple of the rejectionists' and leaving over a dozen dead.
Nice morning for the religion of peace. The day's not over yet.So how exactly am I supposed to interpret that? You said that we can't expect other cultures to act like they live in the 21st century because they can't develop as quickly as the rest of the world.
So I guess it's naive to expect them to refrain from killing other people when they spread out to different countries because their culture is not as civilized as those in the West. I agree.
Are you then implying that we should just accept them the way they are?
Sounds like a great Idea! Let's just ignore them when they go on their religion induced killing sprees. And whenever anyone reports the facts we can feel morally superior knowing that speaking out against the root cause of this insanity is some kind of phobia.Sounds great to me. Just leave them and their oil alone, make green energy. I know through experience green energy works better.
Now who is going to tell this to the US military and their bosses.I agree that we should leave them alone. We have tons of oil in our own backyard. And we don't need to be funding countries that burn our flag, chant death to America, and wish for their religion to control every aspect of our lives. Leave them in the time warp that they choose to remain in.
But "green energy" is a lame duck.
You've lost track of the debate.
I'll refer you back to the title which is "Islam is a peaceful Religion".
I put forward the proposition that Christianity had violence in its past.
You stated that though Christianity did have violence in its past, that was all behind it. You did not offer any evidence that the bible had been rewritten or that any of the basic tenets of Christianity had been discarded.
From that I could only decide that as the religion hadn't changed, its adherents had.
Do you, for one moment, think that if every Muslim converted to Christianity today, that all the killing would stop? Do you think that they would suddenly stop their barbaric practices?
Or do you think they would just find passages in the Bible to justify their behaviour?
As long as some fools keep blaming Islam for all the problems they will never get solved, rather they will get worse as more and more peaceful Muslims are radicalised by constant attacks from the west.
I still say that you have to recognise that extreme Islamists are culturally behind the west by several hundred years. The solution is not war with Islam.And I will say to you again that Islam specifically calls for violence throughout it's entire book, and Christianity does not. Don't point to the old testament, I'm talking about the new testament, that is what makes a Christian a follower of Christ. And yes if people stopped looking at the Koran and started reading the Bible they will not be inclined to kill in the name of God.
Right now they commit suicide in the name of God,
Right now they strap bombs to women and children,
Right now they demand sharia law, even in America they call for it.
Right now they stone people to death for being homosexual
Right now they teach their children and their children's children that they must kill to appease their God.
(Mark 9:50) "Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again?
Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with each other."
(Luke 2:14) "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favor
rests."
(Luke 19:38) "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Peace in heaven
and glory in the highest!"
(John 14:27) Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the
world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
(John 20:21) Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am
sending you."
(Acts 9:31) Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of
peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living
in the fear of the Lord.
(Romans 2:10) but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew,
then for the Gentile.
(Romans 8:6) The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is
life and peace;
(Romans 12:18) If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
(Romans 14:17) For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of
righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
(Romans 14:19) Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to
mutual edification.
(Romans 15:33) The God of peace be with you all. Amen.
(1 Corinthians 7:15) But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or
woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.
(2 Corinthians 13:11) Finally, brothers, good-by. Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal,
be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
(Galatians 5:22-23) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
goodness, faithfulness, {23} gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no
law.
Take the blinders off John, These two books are completely antithetical to each other. One calls for peace, the other calls for death.OK, I'll ignore the old testament and not even bother asking why it should be ignored when it is so often bound together with the new.
Instead lets just have a few examples from your none violent new testament, just on book 'cos there is for too much for this forum.
Matthew
Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12
Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17
Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30
Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14
Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19
"The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12
Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21
Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32
Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen 19:24). 10:14-15
Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21
Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36
Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24
Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50
Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7
"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." 15:13
Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9
In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. The parable ends with this: "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you." If you are cruel to others, God will be cruel to you. 18:23-35
"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34
God is like a rich man who owns a vineyard and rents it to poor farmers. When he sends servants to collect the rent, the tenants beat or kill them. So he sent his son to collect the rent, and they kill him too. Then the owner comes and kills the farmers and rents the vineyard to others. 21:33-41
"Whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Whoever falls on "this stone" (Jesus) will be broken, and whomever the stone falls on will be ground into powder. 21:44
In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:1-14
The end of the world will be signaled by wars, famines, disease, and earthquakes (6-7). And that's just "the beginning of sorrows" (8). Next believers will be hated and killed by unbelievers (9), believers will hate and betray each other (10), false prophets will fool people (11), iniquity will abound and love wax cold (12). But hey, if you make through all that, you'll be saved (13).
Only one more thing will happen before the end comes: the gospel will be preached throughout the world (14). Well, that and the abomination of desolations will stand in the holy place (15), many false Christs and false prophets will show great signs and wonders (24), the sun and moon will be darkened and the stars will fall (29), the sign of the son of Man will appear in the sky, everyone on earth will mourn, and then, finally, the great and powerful son of Man will come in all his glory (30).
Oh, and all these things will happen within the lifespan of Jesus' contemporaries (34).
Or maybe not. Jesus was talking about things he knew nothing about (36). (See Mark 13:32.) 24:3-51
Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37
God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51
The parable of the cruel and unjust master
The kingdom of heaven is like a rich man who distributed his wealth to his servants while he traveled. He gave five talents (a talent was a unit of money, worth about 20 years of a worker's wages) to one servant, two to another, and one to a third. When he returned, the servant with five talents had made five more, the servant with two made two more, but the servant with one talent only had the talent his master entrusted to him. The master rewarded the servants that invested his money (without his permission -- what would have happened if the stock market went down during their master's travels?) and took the talent from the single-talent servant and gave it to the one with ten talents. "For unto every one that hath shall be given .. but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath." Then the cruel and unjust master cast the servant who carefully protected his master's talent into the "outer darkness: [where] there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:14-30
The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30
Jesus judges the nations. 25:31-46
Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41
Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
So lets stop all this messing about posting quotes and get back to the original topic of this thread.The topic is the question of whether or not Islam is peaceful. So people proving time and again that it is not peaceful is off topic according to you. Interesting.
Most of the passages you just posted are concerning the post mortal judgement of God, and unlike the false prophet Mohammad Jesus is not calling for violence between believers, not calling for violence against heretics, not calling for death to homosexuals, and not calling for war against Jew and gentile. Throughout the whole book Jesus preaches forgiveness, and free agency. And that is how Christians interpret it.
I find it ironic that you would paint the new testament as a call to violence in one thread, and yet when it suits you, you will call out a Christian for failing to turn the other cheek, or exercise meekness, or love their enemies, or to come up short in any other aspect mentioned in the beatitudes.OK, I know you don't like answering questions but humour me just this once.
If over 90% of Muslims are peaceful why do you brand the whole religion as violent?
By the way, why do you object to valid comparisons with Christianity?As I said before, they are not valid comparisons. Jesus spoke of the punishment in the afterlife, and Mohammed spoke of killing anyone who got in his way.
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads
and strike off every fingertip of them."
"Allah" (Qur'an 8:12)
"Fight everyone in the way of Allah and
kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
Muhammad (Ibn Ishaq 992)
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
Jesus (Matthew 5:14)Oh here we go again, avoid the question if you must!
“God does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither fought against your faith nor driven you out of your homes. In fact God loves the equitable.” Qur’an:60:8
“Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein, and whoever recommends and helps an evil cause shares in its burdens” Qur’an:4:85
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “A man has sinned enough if he neglects to feed those in need.” Fiqh-us-Sunnah:V3N100
A funeral procession once passed in front of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and he stood up out of respect. When he was told the person in the coffin was Jewish and not Muslim, he said: “Was it not a living (soul)?” Bukhari:V2N399
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once saw the corpse of a woman who had been killed in a military action, and he disapproved of it and forbade the killing of women and children.Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, a companion of the Prophet Muhammad and his successor as head of the Muslim community, advised one of his military commanders: “Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place.” Al-Muwatta:V21N9-10
Now will you answer my question? If 90% or more of Muslims think that their religion is peaceful and practice peace, why should the other 10% or fewer, dictate what the aims of the religion are?
Now to answer your other question;
The myth of a tiny radical Islam is just that; A myth. Though most Muslims do not actively seek out violence, most of them hold extremist views that include favorable opinions towards terrorists groups and Osama Bin Laden, imposing strict Sharia law, they support suicide bombings under certain circumstances, and many of them favor honor killings.
Those who are actively violent jihadists are supported by the nonviolent majority. Nobody in the Christian world supports the random schizophrenic who decides to murder in the name of Jesus. In fact (unlike the Muslim community) the violent people are usually condemned by the Christian community.How do you know this? How many Muslims do you personally know and speak with on such matters?
In other words, prove that it is a myth.If you talked to fifty or one hundred Muslims they still do not represent a population of hundreds of millions.
Like I said before, I could waste the rest of the day presenting you with facts and statistics but you still would not believe. You have been demoralized. The soviets used to call it suppression of ideological subversion. To suppress anything that is counter to the narrative.You haven't presented me with a single fact.
I think you have been demoralised! "Get them up in arms about Islam and we can do what we want to them while they're not watching us."What? Because I don't hang on your every word!
Your arrogance is earth shattering.Lol! Alright I'm done with you for today.
Here's this weeks picture brought to you from the religion of peace.
You're done with me! Further arrogance.
I bet if I posted a picture of a Christian holding a severed head, you'd claim that that was an entirely different thing and totally irrelevant.Yeah, some of us have lives outside of the computer.
You can try to look for Christians beheading someone. I did. Had to wade through a lot, I mean A LOT of Muslims beheading people.
I bet if you could find a single Christian beheading someone within the last year, I could find a thousand Muslims beheadings.1. previously diagnosed as Schizophrenic.
2. Did not do it for Jesus.
3. Unlike in Muslim countries he went to jail.
4. His name is Christian, doesn't mean he is a Christian.
Nice try though.The point I was making was that Muslim beheads, full coverage.
Christian beheads somebody minimal coverage.
Your point about his name being no indication of Christianity is valid though, just as valid as a name being no indication of being Muslim.Yeah, and you failed miserably.
Nice try though. Keep looking.So you're saying that both events got equal coverage!
Prove it.You are really trying hard to grasp at those straws. That's cute!
No proof that he was a CHRISTIAN!
Who cares about the coverage? He was a psycho who killed his Grandmother for nagging him to do chores. That has zilch to do with his religious convictions.
Now try to stay on topic. You were going to find me a picture of a Christian beheading someone in the name of Jesus.But because somebody has a name that sounds Muslim, anything they do must be driven by religion!
You are really clutching at straws.Interesting that you are once again changing the subject as your defense of the indefensible crumbles.
Couldn't find violence in Christianity without pointing to the mentally ill,
Couldn't find a passage in the New Testament that legitimately calls for violence,
You actually admitted that it is naive to expect people from that culture to refrain from being violent
And I'm still waiting on you showing me that severed head at the hands of so called "Christian extremists"
Eleven days into the Islamic holy month and here are the results;
Terrorist attacks - 111
Suicide Bombings - 26
Dead - 1065
Wounded - 1275
Christianity - 0
Judaism - 0I notice that you constantly change direction and ignore all comments that I make that you can't criticise.
I have shown you many passages in the NT that call for violence, you just refuse to see them.
I have shown you why images of Christians beheading are so rare.
How many of the victims were Muslim?Nope, I've been on target the entire time. The religion of Islam incites violence. Haven't wavered from that in the least.
You pointed to passages concerning the Judgment of God in the afterlife, none of which demand Christians to kill for Jesus.
You showed me that a schizophrenic person by the name of Christian, somehow counts as being a Christian.
And you avoid the fact that whether or not the victim is a Muslim, the perpetrator of religious violence always is.
2015.06.27 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Two female suicide bombers murder three people at a leprosy hospital.And you showed me that a white schizophrenic beheading somebody was not newsworthy whilst a black man beheading somebody was!
Wow, that's way off topic! Lol!
Alright I'm done with watching this train wreck for today. We'll see how many people are murdered by proponents of the religion of peace tomorrow.
Peace!And how many will be murdered by proponents of western democracy?
And he changes the conversation yet again. Moral relativism doesn't work when you are dealing with a religion of moral absolutes. Particularly when it is absolutely necessary for them to kill the infidel.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/sus … rn-attacksBut if you opened your eyes you would realise that it is not a religion of moral absolutes.
Your insisting it is does not make it so.And your lack of understanding does not make you right. It has been proven that despite their non participation in violent acts, actual research has shown that the majority support it.
Many Americans will celebrate the fourth of July this weekend, and yet there is a legitimate fear that extremists will attack them in the name of Allah, and out of disdain for our western way of life. The only thing that stands between these cowardly assassins and their goal is the DHS, and a well armed citizenry. It is because of them the DHS even exists, and grows bigger, and encroaches on the lives of decent people.
Little by little they scratch away at our basic freedoms, and so I completely understand why people like you would put so much effort in their defense. You would rather see a big brother government in control.So, in Tunisia a lone gunman goes on a killing spree. Countless Muslims set up a human shield to protect the infidels, one Muslim, working on a roof, pelts the gunman with roof tiles.
But you contend that the majority support acts of terrorism!
Do you actually understand what a majority is, do ypu even understand what support means?
Kindly show me the actual research that shows the majority support terrorism.
