FDA and government approved the Morning After Pill to be made available to 17 year olds.
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Condoms are made available to teenagers and even given to them for their own protection. It is useful since you can't stop them from having sex. However, they aren't being used and STD's and abortions are a social norm.
Birth control was made available to teenagers without the consent of their parents because we cannot stop them from having sex and want to decrease the number of abortions... newsflash. They are still picking up disease because they don't want to use a condom and they don't want an unwanted pregnancy.
Now, the Morning After Pill is being made available because they aren't using any sort of protection.
It is good to make condoms available given that if there is a chance they will use them, then they should be readily available to stop the spread of disease and unwanted pregnancy.
Birth control is good in cases of rape, unwanted pregnancy and reduction of abortions and since teenagers aren't always comfortable with talking to their folks about it, it was a good idea to allow it and at least be protected from pregnancy and spreading more disease to unwanted children.
But the Morning after pill? Does this go too far? The morning after pill is an abortion pill. While it saves women from the painful and emotional roller coaster of having to make a choice after finding out they are pregnant... is it just another excuse that people will use to have sex?
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe sex in itself is a bad thing but it seems that because "education" isn't working we are leaving them with options that give them an excuse to further spread disease because they aren't using condoms, they aren't waiting to have sex, they aren't being responsible in general.
Is this good or bad? I dunno really. My personal opinion is that it is stupid. If they aren't educated enough to even use a condom, not responsible enough to take bcps as prescribed, what makes them think they will be smart enough to use it when it is necessary?
I have a feeling they would use it on a regular basis and using the MAP on a regular basis is deadly. Actually many cases were report that resulted in death after just one use of the MAP.
Is it really worth it?
I think it is an amazing thing. If someone decides that sex is right for them and engage in sexual activity there are several steps you can take. Condoms, birth control pills, patches, IUD, nuvaring, etc. However, birth control pills are expensive, therefore decreasing that option for everyone. So let's say an option for a 17 year old couple is condoms. Effective 87-97% of the time if used 100% correctly, there are several steps to putting one on correctly. What happens if that condoms breaks (has happened to me)? Plan B is a safe an effective was to reduce unwanted pregnancy up to 85% if something like this has occurred. I have taken 6 girls to obtain Plan B (because they didn't want to go alone and didn't know how it worked) all because their methods of birth control failed on them.
Education is what is important. I have met girls who do not understand their menstrual cycles, do not know how a condom works, do not know how birth control works, etc. Trying to keep teenagers from having sex or abstinence based education has been shown to be ineffective. It is therefore important to teach mechanisms of safety and allow them to be as educated as possible.
Yes I agree but because it seems that because education is failing, they aren't even educated enough to make a good decision concerning Plan B.
I think, possibly... that "we" gave up too fast and because we allowed so many other choices that making an informed one is a thing of the past, after all, now all they have to do is swallow a pill, no thinking involved.
I think it is good that you accompanied several teenagers to the clinic for the MAP, but you are wrong when you say that bcp are too expensive. Planned Parenthood offers them for free and donations are up to the person receiving services.
So I view it as laziness on behalf of the teenagers who want to be adults so fast but don't went to do anything responsibly. Not all of them of course. I know there are teenagers that are smart but the majority aren't.
I totally agree. I don't understand people who think its out of line. Its better for the world in general.
So you think it is better for the children to go on being uneducated, better for them to not bare any responsibility for their actions, better for them to pick up disease then have unwanted children etc...
Is this really better for them or better for you?
Oh, I'd love for them to be responsible for their actions. However, I'm not their parent. And I know that many parents today aren't responsible for their children.
Minors explore their sexuality, often with great zig. Its not a crime if its with another minor and its perfectly natural and healthy. Unfortunately we as Americans tend to act like little giggling school girls about it. And its not the way to do it.
Education I agree with. But presenting both sides of the equation is the best response to this behaviour. And they are taking on their own actions. Condoms don't always work, after all. Usually. But not always.
P.S. And you always expect people in general to get hot and bothered and put on a condom? I think people always should, unless they're trying for a baby. But should and do are two different things.
None of the available avenues for keeping from getting pregnant are ineffective...they just apply to unique individuals. Abstinence is good for some, not for others. Forms of birth control are good for some and not for others. Saying one is not good is like saying you know everyone who has or may ever want or need birth control. If one is not for you, that is fine. But you can't speak for anyone or every one else, right? (well i guess you can!, but that is not logical, but only a self centered perspective)
I didn't say any of that. Why did you quote my post to make your statements?
I was responding to this quote of yours "...Trying to keep teenagers from having sex or abstinence based education has been shown to be ineffective."
I have known many girls and women who appreciated having this perspective, and use it quite effectively. But not everyone has the family background or support to abstain. It is a demanding stance, and they are proud of their strength to have taken it.
Young girls will find much more respect from their (one) man in this case.
Birth control pills are no longer available for free at most Planned Parenthood locations. The PP in our town doesn't even do free HIV testing anymore. BCP are affordable if you have insurance, but some girls do not want their parents to know they are having sex, so that throws that idea out the window. The majority of teenagers are smart, and make healthy responsible decisions. In the office I work at we go through more than 10,000 condoms in a semester, we are a campus of about 20,000 but it is estimated 30% are not sexually active. Birth control consultations are done on a daily basis in our on campus clinic. It is not laziness on behalf of the teenagers.
It is important to put all options on the table when it comes to safety. The different methods of birth control, STI protection, and what to do if your method fails. There will always be people who abuse what are good things for the rest of us. That doesn't mean we should restrict the option to the others.
What "decision" needs to be made about Plan B?
This makes me uneasy, but of course I also don't like any form of birth control being available to minors.
My thinking is quite simple: If my daughter (when she is about fifteen years older than she is now lol) were to become sexually active, there are particular consequences to her behavior. While I would hope she would not be sexually active before she is married, I also recognize that I can't control the situation and that she needs to claim her independence. I respect that.
However, I am still responsible for my child, if not for her actions, then for the consequences of them. If she has sex and gets pregnant, I might be responsible in some way for helping her to deal with the choices she then has to make. If she obtains birth control through whatever means, and there is a reaction (as I have had), then I am responsible for her physical and mental health as a result. If I don't know what birth control she has used, I am unable to help her to understand her body's possible reaction.
I regret to say that I have taken plan B. I'm a different person than I was then and am avidly pro-life. I will never discourage other people from doing what they feel is right because I think it needs to be a personal decision. And I don't need to justify myself anyway.
I was lucky. I've taken Plan B twice and have never become ill from it. Virtually every woman I know who has taken this pill has become ill as a result. As a parent, I don't know how to help my sick daughter if I don't know what she has put into her body to make herself sick.
My personal opinion is that we as parents need to be as open with our children as possible. We need to allow them to bring to us their problems and their burdens. And I also believe that wherever possible we need to unburden them (as we see it is moral to do so). It is my personal opinion that allowing teenagers to make these decisions without the help of their parents is an added burden.
Children in this age group either need to be legally declared adults or treated like children in the eyes of the law. JMO.
Come on Sandy, this definitely has nothing to do with abortion. As far as I understand such a pill does not let the whole thing happen (sorry, don't remember English word for that).
And really, sex is fun, why are you trying to deprive you kids of it? Is it because Christian God told you it's a sin?
Let me just say f**k Misha, it has nothing to do with religion if you could get it out of your mind already, my religious beliefs have nothing to do with it so take your pig headed notions and eat them because that is not what I am insisting upon in a friggin politics forum okay?
I am saying that we are teaching our children how be irresponisble by giving them so many options that they don't need to use their f**king minds anymore. All they have to do now is go and boink whatever they want and take a stupid pill.
They are becoming stupid because you let them become stupid. Sure having a way out of a problem situation is good when it was something that they couldn't have avoided altogether.
But bcp and condoms used together are nearly 100 percent effective and abstinence is 100 percent effective!
And colebarbie is wrong about pph in my neighborhood they do offer free birth control and many of them do. It's a lousy argument on behalf of teenagers who are too lazy to go.
Free HIV testing... if anyone had any sense yet, then if they used the friggin condoms or practiced abstinence then it wouldn't be an issue and now you saying it is okay to have totally unprotected sex altogether and just take the pill.
Maybe adults are becoming stupider altogether too and making the children believe that your smarter...
First of all "I regret to say that I have taken plan B. I'm a different person than I was then and am avidly pro-life." Plan B has nothing to do with pro-life/pro-choice because it is not "the abortion pill". You want your daughter to be as open with you as possible, which is so great. But not all mothers are like you. Because you plan to be supportive and open with your daughter she will be able to ask you questions and aid in her decisions. For girls who do not have this relationship with their mothers (or fathers) they are left to make decisions solely on their own. Providing options and education is the only way to help girls make responsible healthy decisions. While you hope she will not engage in sexual activity before marriage you recognize her personal freedom, so with that freedom wouldn't you like for her to have options? To have mechanisms of safety?
I am pro-life. I do not believe in the use of birth control. My body, my choice. No synthetic hormones go into my body at all.
My understanding is that the Plan B pill prevents implantation but not fertilization. I can't be 100% about that because the information I got came from very Christian sources.
From a political perspective I am rabidly pro-choice. I do not see that the government has any business whatsoever telling us what we can and cannot do. I understand the arguments spouted by most Christians about how abortion is murder and murder is illegal. I'm not going to struggle to justify my viewpoint except to say that most every moral person sees murder as wrong: the same doesn't go for abortion. Each woman needs to make her own choice. I'm do not think that it is my place (or the place of Government) to stop those choices from being made.
The "political" problem that I have with this situation is the fact that we are redefining who an adult is without making it legal. If a fifteen year-old is adult enough to make the decision to have sex, then she is also adult enough to work a full time job and be emancipated from her parents. If she can drop out of school and work full time (and be emancipated), then she should also have the right to vote (because she pays taxes).
The entire system is completely screwball.
I'm sorry that there are mothers who don't want to be open with their children. I was taught about sex very early on in life and appreciated that from my mother. I knew how my cycles worked and I didn't have sex until I was an adult. Education *is* key, but that education really needs to be passed from woman to woman, and mother to daughter isn't a bad way for it to be learned.
Misha- it prevents conception And correction about the condoms we supply, we go through 30-40 thousand a semester, I just asked my boss
LOL No, I meant a different thing, when spermatozoid joins the egg, the very start of future fetus
EDIT Looked it up - conception.
Do you eat organic? I am on the pill for quite a few reasons, I have PCOS and dysmenorrhea, and I have also been with my boyfriend for four years and we are not ready to get married and start a family. "It effects ovulation, it prevents fertilization by preventing the sperm or egg transport and it may prevent implantation by affecting the lining of the uterus. It is a high dose of birth control, and that is exactly how birth control works." That is from the healthcare professional for Plan B.
There are certain ways that a minor is granted certain rights held only to adults. These rights are granted in the best interest of the child. Emancipation is often granted when parents are determined to not be providing sufficiently for the child and the child is deemed mature and responsible enough to care for themselves.
Mother to daughter is a great way for girls to learn. However, this isn't always possible.
I was taught about sex early in life as well, and I too waited until I was an adult to have sex. We both had our mothers. A lot of girls aren't as lucky as us.
No, we don't eat organic, but I am considering beginning to homestead, and we would be going organic with our seeds, etc. We don't own our home right now but we have enough land and permission to use it (at least for a family of three).
I am, in general, fairly anti-drug though. I don't usually take over the counter painkillers, for example and I look for natural alternatives. I've treated depression with homeopathic alternatives as well. But I'm not a homeopath and rely on others to tell me what works and what doesn't. I've been lucky enough to find people who do.
You're right that we're lucky. I have often had friends telling me that their ten year-olds are too old to tell about periods and things and I have tried to impress upon them that I started when I was 10. You can't wait. Children are learning from all the wrong sources about things like sex and drugs. I'm lucky my parents didn't avoid one of those two subjects!
So if your daughter came to you and said that her and her boyfriend decided they wanted to have sex and she wanted to go on the pill, what would you say?
Politically, I see no problem in presenting options to minors. I hope that our government supports more sex education to teens however. We are lucky, but for teens who do not have parents like ours, shouldn't they learn it somewhere?
I applaud your use of natural alternatives to aid in your ailments. I think a lot of what nature has to offer can really help. It is difficult to not put hormones in your body since they are found in so many meats, but that is for another forum.
We would talk about it. It's really difficult to say since she's one and a half right now, but I know that we would have a serious talk about sex, decisions and the reasons why her father and I feel that sex before marriage is a poor decision (and it isn't strictly because of our faith, either). The end decision needs to be hers though.
I can't say what the outcome would be because DH and I differ on the subject. I would be more apt to provide her information or birth control than he would be.
Ok I could write a book in response to what you just said, but I'll keep my words to a minimum. It is important for teens to understand the consequences of having sex. They cannot just "boink whoever they want and then take a pill." 1 in 3 people will contract a STI at least once before the age of 25. Pregnancy isn't the only issue. Providing options to teens does not make them irresponsible. Education & options are what will make students responsible. I'm not speaking of just education on how to use these options either, I'm speaking of education on the menstrual cycle, types of STIs, testing practices etc. as well. Maybe in your neighborhood PPH offers birth control pills for free, but not everywhere. There are four PPH within 50 miles of my town, two of which definitely do not, two of which do, but you have to be under 18, so the students I work with wouldn't qualify. I live in South Florida, one of the most liberal places with big cities.
I am not advocating for unprotected sex. Saying that I do offends me. I work in an office where we give condoms out for free, provide STI/HIV testing, and do presentations on sexual health. The importance of protection is put into everything that we do.
Realize that abstinence isn't for everyone. So if someone doesn't choose to be abstinent they should be able to make decisions on what to use to protect themselves. Free HIV/STI testing is offered as a way to reduce the transmission of STIs. 1 in 4 people who have HIV don't know it. So isn't testing important? 1 in 3 people will contract a STI before the age of 25. So isn't testing important? An STI can be contracted even if a condom is used, such as HSV-1 and HPV.
I agree that education is important and I am sorry if I sounded like I was saying you are an advocate for unprotected sex. Not what I was saying at all.
I do realize that abstinence isn't for everyone but I really do think that because neither methods previously provided have done any good because it is literally up to the person to use them.
If it were so that giving out the so many condoms you are giving out... doesn't it strike you as odd that no matter how many you give out that the pregnancy rates continue to go up as well as the number of contracted sexual diseases...
It tells me the obvious, 1) that they aren't using them and if they are, they aren't using them properly and saying that condoms aren't effective with a growing number of teenagers who claim to have used a condom but it "broke" is for the most part a lie that cannot be proven.
Come on Colebabie, how much sense does it make? We get better and making things more effective but the number of people who say they used them and they were defective is growing and as well as the rate of pregnancies that occur using other birth control forms?
They aren't making these things less effective. The statistic used to be that birth control even just the pill was 98.9 percent effective but now has dropped down to 85%? The pill isn't less effective. The change in statistics is because the people using them have become less effective.
It used to be that 1 in like 1000 woman became pregnant using the bcp and this usually had something to do with their cycle and being on the wrong pill. So after more studies and different types of pills that fit the cycle of the woman... the rate of which they "claim" to have been on the pill regularly and become pregnant has gone up.
It doesn't make sense. I really do see it as them being lazy or irresponsible.
Sandra- Well without getting into the details I would just like to add that the initial intimate moments (usually the first few weeks) not all couples are restrained and to label those people as "lazy or irresponsible" isn't justified. Not all the young couples wait and contemplate like those ads shown on TV for "cialis/viagra" (when the moment is right). And the morning after pill is just another fall back option and I don't know why it has to become even an issue (unless one has strong religious convictions). Don't you think precautions are better than unwanted pregnancy thrust upon the young couple?
It has nothing to do with my religious views. I am saying that given what we know about education, and the way kids behave that it is likely that plan b will become their primary method of birth control. It's not a precaution, it is an excuse and this method is a very dangerous method to use.
Please, out of the same respect I have for you, leave my religious view out of it. To be so blind sided by a person religious vies to not hear a word of logic is astounding.
I earlier had a discussion with Make Money where he supported the pope's comment about non usage of condoms and I felt maybe his personal views had a strong bearing on his stand. I apologize if I said anything to upset you. Have a good day.
It's okay countrywoman. I hope you have a good day as well.
Sandra- Btw even I have a lot of respect for you and glad to know that my earlier post you didn't consider it offending you in anyway. I also respect Writer Rider's perspective of abstinence which although is the best approach but may not be practical since some do indulge in premarital relationships early in life. I guess I am personally conservative but I do try to accommodate as many perspectives as possible. I didn't know about cervical cancer and thanks to you all I am learning so much from HP.
I do "not" believe in the abstience only method, Countrywomen. Infact, my opinion is aligned with yours...sometimes kids won't be able to control themselves so I'm the first one who'd arm my kid with a large bag of protection but I also believe kids should know the truth about the consequences and abstain until they've reached a physical and emotional maturity and financial level and will enable them to efficiently take care of a crisis should it arise.
Thats cool Writer Rider. You, Cole,Sunstreaks, Lita have so much knowledge and I really learned a lot today.
Oh before I forget. Good luck Colebabie for the upcoming exam. Hope you write the exam well and take the well deserved summer break
This pill pushes us into further moral decline. Wake up folks!
I totally disagree. But I can respect and understand your belief. Regardless if the pill exists or not, people are still going to knock boots.
While I have a lot of "conservative" values, I know that if something can become openly spoken of and treated fairly with healthy respect our world will be better off in the end. Its all up to the parents, first and foremost, though, and its kind of hard to be one when you're working your butt off...
...or if you're just a deadbeat parent. But I doubt we've many of those around here.
Now, those women are the lazy ones
Just got done reading those links. I can't believe that someone would take it that many times. I suppose because she does she really isn't too worried about become sterile. She probably wants that. lol
I also thought it was interesting that the pharmacist don't educate the people picking it up. I know every time I have gone to the pharmacist that they tell me about whatever it is regardless of whether I want to hear it or not.
Miracles, I totally respect your answer. Well thought out. You seem prepared, and very early considering your daughter's age She is lucky to have a mother like we had
Check out this site http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/infosheets … n_preg.htm and you'll see teenage pregnancy, birth rate and abortion rate have all decreased. In our presentation we go through all 12 steps to putting on a condom so that for the students who take our 30-40 thousand condoms we give out in a semester can use them correctly. Using them correctly condoms are still up to 97% effective, that hasn't changed. Birth control pills used correctly are still around 99.9% effective, that still hasn't changed. I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from.
Condoms break when they aren't used correctly. Using more than one at a time, the wrong size, not leaving room at the tip, not burping the condom, putting in on upside down, are all ways that the condom can break, that's a lot of ways.
Providing options and then educating on those options is the way. You can't just hand a teenage couple a condom and say "ok you're protected." More than likely they won't use it right without some form of education.
The same with relying just on birth control pills. Most girls don't know that just because you start the pill doesn't mean you can have unprotected sex that same week, or that the pill should be taken the same time every day, or that there are monophasic and triphasic birth control pills, both of which work differently.
It is not that the effectiveness of these products has decreased, but rather teens are not educated enough.
Well said, as always.
And that exactly my argument. BC hasn't become less effective but teens aren't being educated enough.
That is the point to the argument of having plan b available to teenagers without a prescription, it is a dangerous method to use. I think that teens in their want to be adults but not be responsible for the inquisitions are being tempted by the fact that they can just go and take this pill.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying in the previous comment. I said that bc is not becoming less effective, the people using them are. Which is what you also said in different words.
So because it is known the the education system is failing and parents not being around enough (out making ends meet and all) to help their kids either.
Further, when children can't even talk to their parents about it in the first place it is likely that they will more often then not turn to plan b as their primary means of birth control.
I do not think this is a wise decision on behalf of the government. In short, if the kids aren't able to make educated decisions on simple forms of birth control, what makes anyone think that they will make good ones with regards to plan b?
It's dangerous and stupid ( I believe) on behalf of adults and the failing education system and yes.. the part of the kids who are basically being forced to grow up too fast, want to grow up too fast, but cannot handle the responsibilities that come with it.
Again, I think that allowing this form of birth control is stupid because it's just another excuse to not make wise choices. and I did say before that not all kids are irresponsible but the majority of them are. To me it is just one more excuse and this one isn't even that safe.
Ok sandra, so at least we agree that education is the solution. However, not all teens are having sex. About 46% of teens will have sex before they turn 19. A big percentage of those are safe, and use birth control methods (BCP or condoms) correctly and effectively.
Will there be some teenage girls who use Plan B as a method of birth control instead of it's intended purpose of being a backup method, sure. But with anything there will be abusers. That does not mean we should limit it's availability because of the select few. I think that more girls will use it the way it is intended than you think. The girls that I have taken to receive Plan B, a couple the condom broke, a couple used no condom, and a couple had used protection but were still scared that they were pregnant (for whatever reason). For the girls that used no condom, the experience of having to obtain Plan B was seen as a learning process and will alter their safer sex practices in the future. Girls make mistakes, things happen, Plan B is "Because the unexpected happens." Whether the unexpected is regrettable sex, a one night stand, condom breaking, whatever the reason... no one can judge but that girl.
I do not believe that Plan B is giving permission for girls to not be smart about protection. If you have ever been in the situation of having a pregnancy scare, you know you would never want that feeling again. Plan B is up to 89% effective if taken within 72 hours (the sooner the better). Even after Plan B girls are still scared they are pregnant.
Pregnancy rates are going down. I believe this is due to the increasing openness of sexual discussion and the options available. Yes education is still lacking. But Plan B will not be used by the majority as the primary method of birth control because girls know it is not 100% effective, and still have STIs to think about, most girls know at least that.
I dont know why what other people do is so important. I have my own life and teach my children. They pass along my wisdom to their friends if a situation or conversation arises. We have no control over what others do and is very frustating if we try to do such actions to others I have seen anyways.
I still don't encourage teenager's engagement in sex because science shows premature sex (before the body stops growing)can lead to cervical cancer later in life.
Can you please tell me where you found this information? The only thing I can think of would be the relation between HPV and sexual history and cervical cancer risk.
And she is a woman, not even a teen. So of course some people will abuse it. 1 percent have taken it more than twice a year. That isn't very significant. So only 1 percent are abusing the medication. There are side effects, but they are fairly mild and acute. As far as having sex at an early age leading to cervical cancer. Not really. It is of course a risk factor. Having a risk factor doesn't mean that you will get cervical cancer. Many risk factors are determined from the population of patients with the disease. Having sex earlier in life usually means having more sexual partners, meaning being exposed to HPV. It is estimated 80-85% of women will have been exposed to HPV in their lifetime.
That's a very good analysis...but it's incomplete. The cells in teenagers are not ready for pre-mature sex so the risk of cancer is heightened in early to mid aged teens. I really don't know why teens are in such a rush to have sex anyway since they're not ready to deal with the problems that might accompany it if, say, they forget to take their pills morning after or otherwise.
The direct fact I think you are refering to is this from the link your provided:
Immature cells seem to be more susceptible to the precancerous changes that HPV can cause.
But this does not say that early sex can cause cancer, only that if exposed to HPV, they maybe be more susceptible to precancerous cell growth.
The mind may not be ready, but the teenage body is ready for sex a bit younger then parents and adults would like. What the fact above states is only that the teenage cells are not ready to fight off the virus that can cause cervical dysplasia as well as more mature cells
There is a vaccination for HPV now. It has been suggested all teen girls get vaccinated. However, so conservatives and religious types would fight it ever happening, because ?. They are scared their child would run crazy having sex as a teenager?
Too me, it is about control vs. education and understanding, as I stated in my previous post.
I have HPV and have had to go through the very uncomfortable cryosurgery to remove cervical dysplasia back in 2005. But I have second thoughts about getting the vaccination for my own daughter when she is old enough. She's only in preschool now, so hopefully there will be more research and developments on the HPV vaccine. I've just heard of two many side effects. I want it for her, but I want it to be safer.
I do think its silly and ignorant for parents to think that if they protect their daughters from the risk of cervical cancer that it gives them OK to go out and have sex.
A few years ago the average person wasn't even aware how widespread HPV really is. When I was in HS health, it was barely mentioned.
As was previously posted, I believe the stat was that over 85% of the population HAS had HPV. For most, an immunity is developed and they are no longer at risk(as was the case for me), but yes, you are right in all you say here.
What are the possible risks of the vaccination, though? I hadn't heard about that.
OMG!! 85% has had this vaccination and I didn't even know about it. Now I guess I am way beyond dumb in these matters. I will have to consult our family doctor now
Sorry, but that's a bit insignificant. If they didn't have sex at an early age they wouldn't have developed HPV, if they didn't develop HPV, then they wouldn't have developed cancer. Which ever way you look at it, directly or indirectly, cancer was formed through sex at early age. Does everyone who has sex under 18 get it? No. Does everyone who has sex without protection get pregnant? No. Does everyone who drives recklessly get into a car accident? No. Insignificant.
Ok-for those who haven't taken a look at this link http://www.cervicalcancer.org/causes.html this is what it says:
Several factors might directly or indirectly affect such "switches" controlling cell growth in cervical cells.
A main factor and cause identified is an infection with the human papilloma virus (HPV). Cervical tissue infected with this agent is endangered to transform into cancer.
In particular, HPV-16, HPV-18, HPV-31, and HPV-45 are virus strains which can cause cellular changes that may lead to cervical cancer.
Other risk factors have been identified to cause cervical cancer:
* Cigarette smoke (active and passive smoking). Cigarette smoke could act as a cofactor that promotes progression of cervical carcinogenesis
* Multiple sex partners, sexual history (first sexual activity at early age)
* Diet (which is low in fruit and vegetables)
* HIV (probably by generally weakening the immune system)
* Oral contraceptives: some evidence for negative effects of long-term use
* Diethylstilbestrol (DES), a hormonal drug occasionally prescribed until 1971, increasing the risk of cervical cancer in these women’s daughters.
I heard that the USA is considering supporting other countries for family planning (birth control) so is this a step in that direction.
Our media is filled with interesting tidbits. In the comics yesterday, I think its called Tina's Cafe or something...the earth was talking of its woes, one of them being overpopulation.
I've no doubt this is an issue, but as someone who believes in personal freedom above all else...ugh, its hard, ya know? Of course, Octomom doesn't help prove my case anyway.
Personally I have no problems with this, as long as it is distributed in a supervised environment. Ideally it would be great if kids could go to a school nurse with such issues and receive one on one instruction, but I highly doubt this would happen.
If your values are conservative and religious I would say this should have no bearing on you and your family. All I mean by this is each family can decide the values they want to share with their children, but people should not be so worried about what their neighbors are doing.
Just like those who are obsessed with banning same sex marriage for all eternity, I feel it is the same thing if you try to block minors' access to birth control. I say focus on you and your own, and allow others to have access to the services and choices they need and desire.
Colebabie makes an enormous amount of good sense all through this post. Don't fool yourselves--anybody--it is because of people like her who are educating teens (as well as good parents) that pregnancy rates are down and that teens CAN have all the information to think and make rational decisions for themselves. And that is what we want, isn't it? For adolescents to make the transition to adulthood?
I just want to add that studies have shown that birth control and how it is handled in families ideologically is something of a class issue. Middle class parents emphasize education and self control as the key in success with anything. Lower class (and I want to preface this with saying this is a generality) parents emphasize control over their children and rules--basically, "Thou shalt nots," though with that I'm not necessarily dragging religion into it, .
So, NO. Making Plan B (which as far as I knew--though I'm not a teen, so perhaps I wasn't paying attention--was available over the counter in most states by this point) available to 17 year old is not that big of an issue. As always, this issue is about individual behavior and what effects that--not the availability of contraception like Plan B. That means everything (in my book) rests on valid information, on teaching responsibility to kids, and teaching them to understand all aspects of the nature of sexuality.
No, CW. 85% of the population has actually had HPV--the sexually transmitted disease...at one time.
You are likely NOT to ever have it, . Because it has to do, really, with the amount of sexual partners you have had or your partner has had. And you are married.
The vaccination was developed just a couple years ago--actually by the University of Iowa--that is how I know a bit about it. Also for the fact that these very 'Christian' conservative ladies here in AZ didn't want their daughters to have the vaccination. "That'll just make 'em wanna have sex and get pregnant," or some such crap.
Oh Ok. I was thinking it is some sort of vaccination that one has to take to prevent cervical cancer. Anyway I am very ignorant and will ask my friend although she is a general physician but should be knowing about all these things in detail. You folks are really knowledgeable about so many things I really admire you all
It is a vaccination. But it is only effective, if I remember correctly (and maybe it is just at this point) in young girls under 18, I believe.
Mostly, thank God, people develop immunity to HPV (Human Papiloma (sp?) Virus) and then you are not effected--nor can you transmit it. It is especially bad for females, you see, as it causes--or has relation--to cervical cancer.
Only under 18? And now I am 26 hence maybe it isn't required. I will anyway read up on this and call my friend over the weekend. Even I am a little apprehensive of vaccinations unless and until they are absolutely required. Thanks Lita for taking the time out to explain to me
Do not call yourself ignorant because you are not . I think the word ignorant is way over used these days anyway. Especially when one person wants to convey how much more informed they are about a subject. Everyone is ignorant on some level, thus I think it would be ideal to find better and more positive words than ignorant.
Can't say I want to convey "how much more informed" I am on the subject, Sweetie. I know what I know. As you can see, I preface a lot with, "I believe," "I think the stat was," etc. CW and I are friends. I am not interested in any kind of odd domination or anything with her.
Edit: CW--YOU do not need to worry. If I know anything about your status (and I'm not gonna spell it out for everyone to see) you will never be at risk. But ask your doc friend. It is always good to know things--maybe for your daughters sake in the future, ie.
All I meant was CW should not feel ignorant. I do not deny you are informed about this subject, because obviously you are. I just have a detest of hearing people call themselves ignorant.
SweetiePie- Thanks for such a good opinion about me. Well being an Engineering major and Masters in Computers I guess I am comfortable in acknowledging that I may not be strong in certain areas. But I do see your point when I am trying to say that to somebody else yes I do need to be very careful but about myself I do know a little about myself. I guess sometimes I consider knowing your weakness to be a strength in a way (since knowing the problem is half the solution). But still I will try not to use that word henceforth
Lita- Thanks for informing me and yes please continuing giving your friendly advice (as you can see I certainly need it). You both have always been very supportive and I am glad I have met you folks here at HP
I do think to some extent that it will make kids want to have sex more often. Because no matter how much education you give them, it doesn't seem like they want to listen.
I guess what I can't get out of my head is that if they were listening then MAP wouldn't be over the counter but used as it was intended to be used, for emergencies.
Now that there are no regulations on it, who knows what will happen. Why get birth control or use condoms when they can just get plan B?
I think before they decided to make it available like aspirin they should have thought about whether they are educated enough to begin with. While the side effects are mild for most cases there is also this thing called death related to the drug as well. http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/mos/m … nkill.html
Now because it wasn't available without a rx before, with it being available like aspirin.. the number of deaths related to plan b is likely to increase.
And my position of these things is usually pro-choice but with plan b, because it can cause death, the likelyhood that it will be taken more often will also significantly change the number of deaths related to it.
Is it really worth it? I really don't believe that it is.
The fact is teens are listening. Decreasing pregnancy rates are proof of that. The article mentioned previously stated that 1% of Plan B users have used it more than twice in the past year, or have "abused" the product. Ok so now we are adding 17 year olds to the group of users. Will adding one more age group, that being 17 year olds, really cause a great increase in misuse or death? I think not.
I'm sure of it...
Did you see my question above, Cole? I had read that people actually shed this virus from there bodies. I'm sure it was a valid source. I think The New Yorker.
Hey Lita sorry. The only thing I can think of is that physically on the outside your body can shed HPV. Like you can not have an outbreak for a while. Also on the cervix HPV may not be detectable because it has "shed" from the area. But it is a virus, and as far as I know it will never be eradicated from your body completely. I will ask tomorrow at work though
I think it is a thought I would love to agree with but I just don't. Those stats on the decreased number of unwanted pregnancies includes abortions. It is a misleading statistic.
I am one of those who doesn't want my daughters to get the Gardasil vaccine. I am conservative, and I am a Christian, but that has nothing to do with my decision as it currently stands. This is another thing about which my research has shown just too many possible adverse affects. But I'm also generally anti-vax due to having seen what vaccination did to a child who had an adverse reaction to the pertussis vaccine.
DH and I had to make some very heavy decisions with our daughter and we have stopped her vaccinations for the time being. We need to talk to a doctor about getting the ones that we really want her to get (such as tetanus since we have pet cats).
It's really odd to see the progression of a thread.
BTW, what would lead anyone to think that protection from HPV would give girls an excuse to have sex? Am I just too "young" as a Christian to have seen this or am I not traveling in the same circles?
Reports of Health Concerns Following HPV Vaccination
The reports seem to be lower risk then I had previously read.
Thank you Lita for the very kind words. It is much appreciated. I am 21 years old and I work at the health promotions office at my campus. I have previously worked at an OB/GYN office and have learned a lot about women's health. I present our sexual health presentation to thousands of students every semester and have gotten pretty much every question under the sun when it comes to sex, working closely with physicians I have been able to answer these questions with medical facts as well with trust because I am a fellow classmate.
Ok Gardasil. Totally different subject but I don't mind talking about it. " GARDASIL is the only cervical cancer vaccine that helps protect against 4 types of human papillomavirus (HPV): 2 types that cause 70% of cervical cancer cases, and 2 more types that cause 90% of genital warts cases. GARDASIL is for girls and young women ages 9 to 26." - taken from the website.
HPV- human papilloma virus, is just that, a virus. Because it is a virus, it is not curable, but rather treatable, and now for four strains, preventable. There are over 100 strains of HPV. Gardasil protects against 6, 11, 16, 18. But like it says above these are the 2 that cause 70% of high risk (causing cervical cancer) and 90% of low risk (causing genital warts). 85% of women will contract one of the 100 strains of HPV over their lifetime. For many, no symptoms occur and many women will not even know they have it. There is currently no vaccine for men, however Merck is working on this and is hoping to come out with one soon.
It is given as a series of 3 shots over the period of 6 months, very similar to the Hep B vaccine most students receive in middle school.
My mom has HPV. She has one of the high risk strains. She has had many painful procedures to remove pre-cancerous cells in both her cervical region and the perineum region. My 17 year old sister has received the vaccine. I am unfortunately allergic to a common ingredient in most vaccines, and therefore my gynecologist suggested against it.
I think some parents, or conservatives are concerned about it's release because it is a Sexually Transmitted Infection, and because the vaccine is aimed toward young girls. Sexually Transmitted and young girls in the same sentence scares people.
It is up to parents, as well as their daughter's PCP to determine whether or they should receive the vaccine. The side effects are very mild, just like any other FDA approved, well tested and thought out vaccine.
Now this is a person who is informed, .
Thanks, you cleared up some missing info. for me. The stuff I read was a few years old, when the vaccine was still in the trial phase at U of I.
edit: OK. Cole--some of the info. I read (this may have been in the New Yorker) stated that MOST people do have HPV, but that they become immune to it, and can no longer pass it on to anyone else.
Perhaps I am ignorant. Don't these people expect their young girls to eventually grow up? And isn't it possibly reasonable to assume that even if they save themselves for marriage their future husbands might not have done so?
Again, I don't plan on getting the vaccine for our daughter, but not for this reason. In most cases vaccine reactions are listed as very mild, until you see a severe reaction first hand. It really does open the eyes to what can happen, and I just don't see this as a "necessary" vaccine.
How many strains of HPV are there? I thought that 4 was a relatively low number of strains of the virus.
I'm curious about something. How you talked to your daughter about this and asked her what she wants. After all it is HER life YOU are messing with?
Excuse me here people, but.but.but. OMG!
Warts, AIDS, Herpes, you name it will be caught if you continue to live in a fairy tale and pretend that YOUR child won't be naughty boy or girl. Give up on the marriage idea and EDUCATE your kids. I know countless of women and men stuck with some sort of STD. I silently thank my mom everyday because as soon as I was old enough to wack off, she taught me how to put on a condom, and she took the responsible measure of being realistic. I love her for that. Sex is a beautiful thing! Kids need to be aware of every dimension. I don't have a damn thing, and I can say my mom is the reason for that. Sex was an open issue in my house hold. She was right on target. She knew it when I lost my virginity. She was on top of everything. Something for my sister.
I will tell you this mom's and dad's, take it from a me, the men that can wait after their 18, are usually the suppressed sex offenders that go to your local church, that someday cheats on their wife, has sex with the step daughter, rapes, has sex in mens bathroom. They are the same men that make people like us say, "Who knew?" Or "I would have never of guessed it."
Or, better yet parents, these are the men who are now your daughters P.E. coach, church youth pastor, boss and and get this, YOU just don't know it yet, but he shows her his dick at least 3x's a week, pinches her ass or makes dirty talk!
For me its like this, "Are you up with the times?" If your not, "Good luck!" I'm here for you when your daughter gets warts frozen off her twat. I'm here.
By the way, I knew about warts on "winkies" and/or "dinky" since the third grade. I knew just about everything by the time my balls dropped and I grew that first pubic hair.
Sorry RK, I missed this earlier. It's late and I'm getting tired. Dry contacts also make it hard to see. Sorry.
My daughter isn't old enough for me to discuss these matters with her: she's 16 months old. Until she is sufficiently old enough to make educated decisions for herself, that is our job, as her parents. That's what parenting is all about.
I am personally of the belief that parenting is an enormous responsibility and not one that should be undertaken lightly. One of the reasons I won't tell others not to use birth control, in fact. Not right for me: You do what is right for you. Because for heaven's sake if you (generic you, not personal you) aren't ready to take on the responsibility of having children, please DON'T.
Once again, I have to make the choices that I believe are right until she is old enough to make her own decisions. I know it is an entirely different debate, but this is also the reason that I am anti-circumcision. Too bad DH isn't.
I also wanted to say that not very many people are "immune" to HPV. They might have HPV but their immune systems have suppressed the symptoms (genital wart outbreaks) this is extrememly common. Also the vaccine is recommended for girls/women ages 9- 26. This is because it beneficial to get the vaccine before you are sexually active, because chances are once a girl is she will come across HPV. HPV is also spread by skin to skin contact, so a condom isn't necessarily going to protect you 100% (of course it does help!).
I got a question for you colebabie.
When I was learning about HPV I couldn't get a straight answer about testing HPV in men. Some said yes, some said no.
Is there a way yet to test HPV in men? I mean in cases where Warts are not present. Can the test yet for the strains that can cause cervical issues?
There are over 100 strains of HPV. Gardasil protects against the four most common, like 90% of low risk, 70% of high risk. I think it is definitely a necessary vaccine. What you stated at the beginning of your post is exactly why. By the time your daughter qualifies for the vaccine, another 8 years from now, hopefully it will have then been out long enough for you to consider it safe. I have friends who received it last year, no side effects as of yet. I sometimes wonder why parents will go ahead and give their child a vaccine just because it is mandatory for school, but when something like this comes out they swear it off as being unnecessary. Do I really think I will come across Hep B? No, but it is mandatory for middle school students.
See, that's just the thing: I don't plan on giving her most of the "mandatory" vaccines. There are waivers, and besides, we're planning on home schooling so it shouldn't be an issue. I understand the facts about herd immunity (and I do mean the *facts* not propaganda) and I understand the risks. Unfortunately it seems that it is very difficult to find a doctor to discuss the subject with as all doctors I have encountered are strongly opinionated one way or the other (some are very non-vax even!).
STIs are obviously very preventable. More than other diseases against which we vaccinate. I think that is part of the reason why people get so up in arms about vaccinations that prevent STIs. If I can find enough information to convince me that the vaccine is worth the risk, I will get it for her. And you're right, there are another few years before I even need to begin worrying about Gardasil. Perhaps I will allow her to make her own decision about it when she is old enough (but hopefully still young enough not to be having sex).
Yes, men are carriers of the virus. They can exhibit no symptoms at all and just be carriers. Some men however do have symptoms, such as genital warts. They tend to occur on the testes, which is why condoms aren't necessarily effective protection.
Sunstreeks, there is no accurate test for men. You are correct.
RK I think her daughter is like a year old... maybe a little too early to start asking. Nice story though.
Well, but when it comes the time to start thinking about that- what then? Girls start having sex around 13 or 14. Guys from my neighborhood, 16,17, 18. Ain't no big thing 'til your 18. And what better than too practice with an older woman to make your experience way down the line to the sweetness of 15. Word. I'm shooting it straight up. Shit, with pills for most guys, STD's are an after thought.
In so many words you basically said that it is important to have good communication with your kids, be honest and open about sex, support their sexual freedoms, and stay up on the times. And I agree
Sorry I agree with sunstreeks. Under the risk factors there are lifestyle, and carcinogens. Smoking is a known tumor promoter, it can cause increased mutations or susceptibility to mutations in otherwise normal cells. It isn't necessarily if they didn't have sex at an early age they wouldn't develop HPV. This risk factor is assuming sex at an early age leads to a greater number of sexual partners and therefore an increased risk of being exposed to HPV. This is kinda tricky. Because a lot of things have to go into play in order for that risk factor to contribute to the contraction of HPV. Sex at an early age, increase in overall number of sexual partners, exposure and contraction of a high risk HPV strain, and eventually the development of cervical cancer. I wouldn't say "Which ever way you look at it, directly or indirectly, cancer was formed through sex at early age." Because of the fact that so many factors have to be in play.
Cervical cancer can be ruled out at any one of those steps. Having sex young is a risk factor for cervical cancer because some HPV patients followed that path. But I wouldn't use it as a reason to say that teens should not have sex because they can get cervical cancer. Again it is just education. Even looking at this forum, parents don't know anything about HPV, so do you think teens do?? Actually now that I think of it, they probably know more than their parents.
I was just pointing out the inconsistancy of the statement. HPV is one of the ways that cervical cancer can be developed. When the cells are mutating which they do as a person is growing and premature sex will cause an imbalance which will cause cervical cancer.
Here's another explanation from http://gynecological-health.suite101.co … he_cervix. Notice how HPV and early sex are separated into two separate categories for causes:
Causes of Cervical Cancer
We aren’t sure why a cell becomes cancerous – it happens when an abnormal cell goes haywire and multiplies in the body. Experts have identified various risk factors: -
* In most cases it is caused by infection of the Human Papilloma Virus (HPV). This is transmitted through genital contact – usually via unprotected intercourse. HPV is common and has many different ‘strains’ but five ‘types’ have been linked to cervical cancer.
* Having sex from an early age and having lots of sexual partners. Research shows that women who have a baby before the age of 17 are more at risk compared to women who give birth after the age of 25.
* Long-term use of the contraceptive pill can slightly increase the risk of cervical cancer. However, regular smear tests counteract this.
* Smoking – chemicals in cigarettes impact on cells and can cause changes. Smokers are more susceptible to cervical cancer.
Read more: http://gynecological-health.suite101.co … iveF&B
I completely understand. It is just important to know that a "risk factor" is just that, and there are many risk factors for particular diseases that we all engage in. Scientists know usually how cancer forms, and lots of reasons why.
"and premature sex will cause an imbalance which will cause cervical cancer." just try to be careful with your words. Because this is not always the case.
Sorry Sandra I'm not clear about your issue with those statistics. I'm pretty sure they include the number of teenage pregnancies, whether the fetus was born, miscarried or aborted are additional statistics. The number of teenage pregnancies has declined. So therefore the number of abortions and miscarriages have declined as well. Look at the chart and the actual numbers. You'll see that they are separated. Also look at the section regarding the possible reasoning behind this.
Here's a better explanation from http://www.healthsquare.com/fgwh/wh1ch38.htm . The cellular walls are still developing or strenghtening in the cells:
Early sexual activity. Women who have sex at an early age may be more susceptible to cervical cancer than other women. One reason for this risk is that the developing cells in the cervix of a young woman are more fragile than the mature cervical cells of older women, and more likely to be damaged from the slight abrasions caused by frequent intercourse. Teenagers who smoke and have frequent sex double their risk.
You're the parent, so I respect your right to know what is best for your daughter. The two vaccines I recommend the most for college bound girls are Gardasil, and the Meningitis vaccine. There are waivers you can sign so she doesn't have to get the school required ones. Just please do as much research as possible before you make your decisions.
Colebabie, I have been researching since I was pregnant with her. The truth is that this particular debate can have a parent going around and around in circles with themselves. It's very difficult to make a decision regarding something that is so important but potentially so dangerous.
By the way, there is NOTHING that will stop me from having her vaccinated for Meningitis! I know the horrors of this disease and how absolutely deadly it really is!
And I should add, that is one of the factors I've been taking into consideration with the vaccines: What is the disease and what does it do to the infected individual?
I think I heard some talk about chicken pox becoming a required vaccine? Last time I checked it's far from deadly in children, though you sure don't want to get it as an adult!
RK, I wanted to add to you directly:
Your argument could be made regardless of what my decision was. A sixteen month old is far too young to take care of herself and that is what my husband and I are here to do: To care for her. I feel lucky that I had parents who protected me and made the decisions that they felt were right for me. They didn't always make good decisions (like Catholic school, for example) but I have nothing but respect for their efforts.
I would hate to have my daughter grow up and look at her life and feel that all we did was sit back and let her ruin her own life. Our family is very tight-knit and we share. It's not for everybody, but that's who we are.
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree with what you are suggesting here and will stand up for my right to be a parent!
Agreed about knowing the dangerous of the disease and whether or not a vaccine is warranted. I have several friends who have HPV. And my mom has HPV. She has had several painful surgeries to remove precancerous cells. So "I know the horrors of this disease and how absolutely deadly it really is!"
Colebabie, I am going to go to bed, but I would appreciate it if you could leave me some links to further information on the subject. As this isn't something that we're going to need to deal with in the very near future I have some time to discuss the issue with my husband and decide how we should approach it when the time is right. I see us having three options: "forcing" her to get the vaccine when she is older, encouraging her to get the vaccine when she is older, leaving it entirely in her hands whether or not she wants to get the vaccine. Option #4 is to forbid it but that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
I'm off to bed as well. It was nice talking with you. You are a very caring mother I'll be happy to look up some links and give you some more information on it. Good night
However most girls who decide to abstain do so out of religious and/or personal views not taught to them through the school system. If a girl decides to abstain, that is great, but having abstinence only sex education leaves out the majority of the teenage population.
I agree with this. I am an abstainer and that came from personal views rather than from something that I was taught in school when I was growing up or in high school. I regret to say that this has been my method even since I've been married (but DH has been known to get past birth control as well -- including depo).
When I was in school we weren't taught anything at all about birth control. Our school and area had a low instance of teen pregnancies, which I suppose is a good thing. I'm not going to argue either that *not* educating girls (in schools) is the way to go, because I just don't have the answer to that problem.
The morning after pill should be a call to the boy's house not to come over again if the mother and daughter have that type of relationship, which I doubt. When the birth control bill was used to regulate menstrual cycles, minors were given the pill for that purpose. But to relinguish good upbringing and hometraining to a minor is ridiculous. Sure the morning after pill will stop unwanted pregnancies but the minor's life should be directed in the learning module and not in the birthing department. The driving beginning age is sixteen and a child is not able to drive their lives when peer pressure has taught them that life is fun and games. Parents need to be the .morning after pill by teaching mostly the girls that their bodies are their temple and is not worth taking medication from giving in to the immaturity of young boys. My vote is no to the morning afer pill unless maybe the politicians are going to lower the voting age and the drinking age for a total culure shock and change.
Wow, Linda... It looks like you haven't read the whole thread but what you just said is almost exactly the point that I was trying to make except that I vote "yes" because the fact is that not all parents are going to parent their children (and I agree with Coliebabie on that point). It's a sad world in which we live.
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