Standing Rock , protecting the envirenment protest

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   ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   I grew up during the sixties and back then just as now , THIS  does not now nor ever will look like Protecting The Environment , at what point  did your dividing  lines between protest and anarchy  meld together .and become one ? I decided in the sixties as a boy  that I will never again believe in the peace march , protest or to be standing for the cause .  On the left there is only one cause and that cause is clearly and divisively     bu!! shyte and anarchy !   Burning down  the environment doesn't fit into my definition of the will  TO PROTECT IT  !

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      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      All of these last minute attempts at changing what government and business do against the will of the people is a result of political laziness. Where were these people when these contracts were awarded? What local representatives are being held accountable for such contractual pho-pas? It is the same all over when the electorate ignores their civic duty in overseeing what the government does and who their representative truly represents.

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         ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         You are right , Exactly why draining the swamp is wholly necessary and eventual and  Voter apathy = # one cause , period !

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      Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      There are actually no protesters at the standing Rock reservation. There are however, a bunch of agitators a few miles north trespassing on federal land and protesting a pipeline which runs parallel to an already existing pipeline.

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         Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         You are so full of crap, are you one of those oil pigs?
         
         Let see, up to 1000 protester in a day and over months. Tent towns set up for protesters. They have taken 17 to hospitals from water power guns in freezing night temperatures and also being shot at with rubber bullets and tear gas. Other attracts by dogs biting them, pepper stray and 28 arrest and still native drive the blockaded away  . They have a million and half email supporting them. Mainstream media do not support them well enough. No longer the courts cases are protecting their own land from these pipelines. Dead bodies from their secret graves are being dug up. The Government no longer support a their entire nation of people and use the US military against their own people as they have invading the Muslin in their own countries they will do the same to American just slower.
         
         First US has creates the worlds largest genocide in human history from true Americans that have lived here for thousands of years. From the natives that unHonorable US Military could not kill the rest of them, they made trendies and gave from their own reservation. Now 18 million native American right now are living along the pipelines across a river of 1/3 of America total water supplies flows through and their only life source as water is life.  The world banks tried to own all the water in Bolivia and they failed badly, they may not here, I will a sure you fracking will kill more Americans than your enemies oversea.  I have a thread that support the rich and their depopulation plan maybe you would be more comfortable over there.

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            Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            You act as though there is some kind of moral high ground because one side lost a war.
            
            Do me a favor, name a large society that was not formed out of violence. Do you honestly believe that the people who lived here previous to the European arrival were living in peace? You might want to open a history book if you think the answer is yes.
            
            

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               Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               I base my life on good sense, ethics and know the art of not fighting or displaying to encourage ways of not fighting.
               
               In your world you choice a moral high ground by supporting a large group that is most criminal and unethical. This moral high ground is false and inprison your mind into a mental illness, low energy and unhappiness. What is moral about 90% of predominantly religious countries fighting wars we only feel sad for them. Stealing and killing is breaking the moral code even in your religious Bible.
               
               Regardless wars per capita and family growth are shrinking as we are moving slowly toward  a more spiritual and more ethical world
               
               All of those pipelines is a threat to our natural environment and we all belong to the unfortunate American Indians just the same. They all can be replace with hemp oil and fuel plants, but the synthetic greedy would not like that.  The people's revolution is coming again.

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                  Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Do you own a car?

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                     Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Had an electric bike for a few years, a truck for a year and a half.
                     That is not the point, Henry Ford made a large vehicle out of hemp and fueled on hemp, with plastic stronger than steal.  The Government disallows any alternative green products. Because synthetic greed is design for everyone and thing to be in the hands of the very few. Green products is illegal to be of service for the vast majority.

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                        Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Where did the electricity for your bike come from?

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                           Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           From Vancouver. Was riding my bike in the winter time up rocky mountain roads. Recharge from solar panels onto lithium batteries. No cost on gas, insurance and no license.

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                              Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              Lithium is usually extracted from extremely fragile environments such as The Salar de Uyuni in Bolivia. Some argue that it is extremely irresponsible to despoil these regions for a material which can only ever be produced in sufficient quantities to serve a niche market of luxury vehicles for the top end of the market.
                              
                              Exploit Bolivians or route cheap oil through federal land that doesn't even touch Native grounds.
                              
                              Better yet, instead of routing a pipeline through the Dakotas lets have big diesel trucks drive the oil back and forth across the country. That is the only alternative because not everyone is willing to ride their bike to work every day. Especially not Leo Decaprio.
                              

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                                 Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 Lithium is use in cell phones, computers and my bike batteries, not as nearly as much dangerous as oil and gas. Hemp/cannabis is far more cost effective and cleaner than both.
                                 
                                 Edison light bulb still is working after 115 years in London UK. The whole throw away products is the Greatest conspiracy of all time. Made up by the greedy synthetic Corporatism to prevent life long and natural made products.
                                 
                                 I and many others inventors are not allowed to competitivly beat the crap out of the synthetic products Corporations. They will never get to heaven if they break everyones money, health and heart. We will overcome.

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                                    Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                    Leo gave a good speak on the threats to the nature environment.  We are able to totally change our natural environment around world if we were really allowed to do so by our real owner synthetic Corporatism.
                                    
                                    Then Leo would not have waste toxic fuel (replace by natural fuel) like many of us. Or fly in his private jet for security reasons,  as for authorities kill more people than criminals or terrorist do.

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                                       Onusonusposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                       Synthetics do not drive us back and forth to work, internal combustion engines do. It's all about supply and demand. There is no supply for alternatives because there is little demand and it isn't cost effective.

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                                          wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                          Well, it isn't cost effective or energy effective, but there is a lot of demand for alcohol made from corn.  Because the government, in it's infinite wisdom, has declared that gasoline must have alcohol in it so that we don't get the MPG that real gas gives us.

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                                          Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                          The first US prohibition was about alcohol, not because people got intoxicated on it. It was because alcohol was cheaper, more effective and cleaner fuel for vehicles.
                                          
                                          Same with hemp when Henry Ford made a vehicle also fuel on hemp. That was cheaper, fuel and stronger steal and many more benefits over gas, oil and even corn. But the main problem in a throw away society is that the synthetic created everything for their ownership. Everything was all design to cut competition from the public and put it into the greedy hands of the few.

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   colorfuloneposted 7 years ago

   I can't pretend to know what all is going on at Standing Rock.  There are radical protesters there and there are peaceful protesters.  I get reports from there through live stream and one of the complaints is that peaceful protesters are being fired on along with the radical protesters that are there to cause trouble.   The radical protesters may be getting paid to make it something other than what the protest was intended.   I can't remember the name, but there is an agency there now monitoring who the police are shooting.  There have been several peaceful protesters who have had to be brought to the hospital for injuries. 
   
   Now, if all that is true or not...I don't know, but from what I have seen, its feasible.  We see it happening on the streets with protesters where there are the paid trouble makers rioting and than there are the peaceful protesters.

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   Live to Learnposted 7 years ago

   What we are witnessing there are people so upset with the government allowing a project to be shoved down the throats of the people affected by it that they felt compelled to make a stand against it. Failure to give some credit to their concerns...allowing yourself to form a negative opinion based on media coverage...denying them the benefit of reasonable doubt.......well, that's just funny. Considering what we saw during this election cycle. What you railed against.
   
   Maybe we need to ask Pravda to write an article on the events. So you can read it. I'd bet their take would be a wee but different than the one you've swallowed lock, stock and barrel.

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      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      No, I don't think so.  What we are witnessing is the Environmentalists in action - there are actually very few Indians in that demonstration that even might be affected.  Interviews with the townspeople on the reservation show that not many care one way or the other.

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         colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         People have been fighting against the corruption on reservations for centuries.  Members of the BIA have been compromised.  Where there are reservation casinos there is corruption all the way to DC.  I think many have been lulled into a false sense of security and fell asleep just like anywhere else.  Apathy, as ahorseback has put it.  But, things are getting shaken up and people are waking up hopefully.   
         
         I can see the pros and cons of the pipeline. I'm in neutral basically because I am far removed and not sure of what all is actually going on.   It helps to have discussions about it to get different points of view, because I can't rely on mainstream for un-biased reports.  I do care about clean water.
         
         It wouldn't surprise me if AIM is behind the trouble makers.

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   ahorsebackposted 7 years ago

   My information comes from U tube posts  especially when the mainstream media evades reality ,and all media sources when I can decipher truth from bias !     Its a pipeline people ,   When pipelines don't carry gas , oil ,  etc. do you have any idea who does ?        Trucks , trains ,  ships ---------of course you haven't seen environmental disasters there right ?.......
   
   Right............ ?

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      Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The reality is civil unrest and the war on the natural environment, that is a greatest threat to mankind greater than wars itself.
      
      About 21 states have decided to do fracking for oil including North Dakota. Ft McMurray Canada did have fracking and oil sands and never will be able to clean it up. Not only gave more carbon than all the cars in Canada. You turn on your tap water and lite if on fire along native having the worst health and death issues recorded in Cannda.
      
      You can live without oil and even live without money but can't live without water and air.
      
      Another episode of :As the Stomach Turns:
      Sponsor by Freak show Report.

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   Castlepalomaposted 7 years ago

   Freak report.
   Oil and fuel can be totally replace by Hemp farming oil and fuel. Except for synthetic greed profits of the very few would be hurt.
   
   100 years ago 40% of Americans population lived on farms, today 2%. The synthetics needed to ship about same as America food imports from 1500 miles away. Also international imports most products. At least hunger games seems more real each day. The population will be less and everyone will have a job they don't like, see equality.
   Always be looking on the bright side of life.

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   Castlepalomaposted 7 years ago

   Maybe Trump is on to something. Why not kill Americans faster than them killing other countries people's for oil and gas. Maybe by not caring enough like Americans do about their greedy, takes a lot of pressure off me. As long as they are killing themselves and less of others what do I care..
   
   Lifting bans on natural environment protection like fracking, coal and other materials to employ more Americans for these kind of unhealthy job that will kill more Americans faster also. While still moneys gose straight to  the greedy and still less for the poor and fastest way of killing others a faster way to the bottom..
   
   Who cares, it an American tradition continue to be growing carbon foot print faster than anyone in the World. Why should I care because no longer live in North America and won't be forced to sh_t where I eat
   
   Why worry about guns when air and water will kill you faster. Guns could spark off fires and burn towns to the ground like what happen in Ft. Mcmurray almost did, while raining fire on the whole town. Imagine 21 states on fire and earthquakes too, actually like in my dream\nightmare. Rather look on the bright side of things.
   
   All I can do is warn people , If much of my US family gets killed there . Fine, less idiots in the world for living there. Why should care about people who don't respect or care for themselves. Like an alcoholic, America needs to hit rock bottom before they can build a healthy America again. Let them hit your rock bottom faster with Trump. This way I can support a horrible Trump in doing something good. I may not be able to come back because oil spills will not be able to clean up in my life time.

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      PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe Hillary, you meant?

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         Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Not Hillary, she support natural environment projects along with Jill. Trump gives not a care in the world for nature. He once did care about tearing down wind power turbines over birds and a view of his square buildings.
         
         Where Trump will damages brown people of the earth and spirit in the middle East. Then native brown at home and boarder to the South. These pipelines run over native burial grounds and destroys their water supply greatly. They are fighting for their very lives as many natives population in Northern Canada have been destroyed over oil.

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            PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

             
            Well talk around town is hillary promoted fracking around the globe eg Bulgaria. Didnt hillarys campaign and her alleged charity take money from large oil companies and lobbyist from fracking companies?

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               Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Then Hillary and Trump are under the thumb of the true owners of the US corp, they say all kinds of strange things. Hillary is against fracking in America with conditions that would make cracking impossible. She gives alternative natural energy solution, Trump not.

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                  PhoenixVposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Im starting to think Bolivia gets the same tv broadcasts i do. :' -(

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                     Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Lots of documentary about the water wars in Bolivia.
                     US Corp has backed themselves into a counter. As many oil countries are getting sick and tired of dealing with US and unvading to steal their oil. Corporation US feel they can be a oil super power oil producer by fracking. Coal is another environmental disaster , on a sunny day on a China beach, you would think it is a cloudy day, from coal production. The second civil war has began along with a world war. You wonder why 95% of total crimes are occupation crimes. It's because Corporation are the real criminals without bars.

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      ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      And in the real world =  That is why America is always in other peoples business and lives , Because we care as much about the worlds problems as our own  , while those like you drop out of that  attitude  and accountability of philanthropy and move to la -la land !

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         Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Thank goodness the natives kick out the world bank and Americans out of Bolivia. They tried to steal the entire water ways and even the rain from the sky. That meant death to majority of the natives people, so they over through their Government and took their lives back.
         
         Greed has no bounds and evil to the bone.

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   Castlepalomaposted 7 years ago

   Standing Rock is an example of your country is all about Corporatism running it, and soul aim is to make profits for themselves, not you.
   
   The soul job of the Government is to protect it's people's health and land, pretty well opposite here.

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      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Not particularly.  Standing Rock is a shining example of NIMBY and of the power of environmentalist fist.

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         Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I did not have the lawyers, only environmentalist numbers of 23 persons , very little deep pockets. Our laws and owners of our country walk into our ecovillage and made green off grid living illegal. Then now it is turning into a trailer park.
         
         In Darkota case you got the US Government, the US milliary, the local police and hired scamer to try to make their protest illegal. Plus Trump green light without interest in the court system , or nature. environment ,  or natives and a war price war with the Saudi Arabia.
         
         I gave up after 5 years of dealing with the Government Corporatism criminals on my three eco villages in North America.
         
         These Darkota native that extended down to Kansas have been the Nation natural environmentalist for 100s of years, perhaps 1000s of years. Natives will win many battle yet most likely they will loose the war. The US Empire is fighting nature and crushing honorable persons will further your civil wars.
         
         On the a worst front the rest of world more powerful than US and Israel  combined. BRICS will dump the US dollar and trading oil emport to the US. BRICS and any other countries will trade oil more with each other and dump US policies, protection, Jew tax and most of all the US dollar.
         
         That puts almost impossible odds on Darkota natives to stop the the US Corp fracking, US milliary and Trump political steam roller over more old and new fresh graves to come. Plus replace lives for more toxic waste. Not, totally impossible Bolivia and Iceland did manage to kick out their bankers of evil.

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            wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            "Our laws and owners of our country walk into our ecovillage and made green off grid living illegal."
            
            Why?  Because you could not handle your sewage without encroaching on the neighbors?  Because the people will drink contaminated water?  Because people will freeze without power?  What was the reasoning (whether you agreed with it or not)?
            
            "In Darkota case you got the US Government, the US milliary, the local police and hired scamer to try to make their protest illegal."
            
            I'm very sorry, but their actions are illegal most places in the world.  Including where you live and where you want to live.  Destruction of private property generally is, threatening others with physical violence generally is, and so is trespassing on private land. 
            
            "Darkota natives to stop the the US Corp fracking"
            
            They aren't trying to stop fracking; they're trying to stop other individuals from using their land for legal purposes.
            
            "Plus replace lives for more toxic waste. "
            
            It's statements like this that give the environmentalists (and you) a bad odor in the world.   There is exactly zero toxic waste involved in the Dakota events, and you know it - there is thus zero reason to even bring it up except to change the subject and try to give it some (false) reasons.  Much like bringing the bankers (who've you've steadfastly declined to list or define) into it.

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               Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               My design and products are much safer and lower cost the the corrupt systems. It it just illegal to be green , it is against synthetic greedy highest profit world domination.
               
               Western Canada and all their frackiing and oil was to the highest degree the worst disaster in their entire history. The last few years they have had highest employment , forest fires, floods, series of ghost town . killing 1000s of people and destroying land that totally useless for anything forever,  until the people had enough.  That is what is coming to America ten fold.

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                  wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  "It it just illegal to be green"
                  
                  Baloney.  It might be in Canada, but it certainly isn't around me - had a solar cell outfit out a couple of months ago to look at possibilities for my home.  And the power company is forced, by law, to buy what power I produce.
                  
                  1000's of people were killed in Canada?  Strange that no one has heard of such an event.  Government censorship, no doubt.  Or maybe it got buried under our own fires, floods, etc.

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                     Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     There is only one legal eco village In Canada and  they are hooked on hydro and sewerage. Where I am totally off grid , solar power, composed human waste, grey water system, harvest rain water and so on. Many eco villages in the US have been shut down as the were told they must be on the grid to be legal. I am sure there is a lot more off grid people that authorities have no awarenesses of and odd ones that maybe unsafe.
                     
                     Yes, there many products we can buy that are green , yet a whole lifestyle green, corporations really don't like that.. They have hassle people for gardens and even have hassled some Amish for growing food.

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   walmart cherposted 7 years ago

   civil disobedience is as much a part of american culture as apple pie and baseball. if you don't like it, perhaps you'd prefer to live in north korea. besides, it's easy to pick up trash from the ground, but a lot harder to clean up oil spills from busted pipes built in haste.  if the government had included the souix in the project discussions from the get go, they could have settled any dispute quietly.  there is no debate that the us army corps of engineers broke the law through sheer ignorance.

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      ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe you will explain how burning  the exact "end products" of shale oil and fracking  like tires , plastics , nylon  ,  police cruisers , or any poisonous mane made products  is amounting to anything positive besides the conscientious breakdown of reason ?
      Don't like fracking ?---Burn down an oil refinery , yeaaa !
      
      There's always something poisonous about the egos of such Idealists .

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         Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Being like all earthling including humans are biologjcal organisms first.  It would be my first priority in life to put my own health first and the the natural environment  surroundings. These native going up against the US Government and Milliary seem even beyond my frontline bravery and hope of successful lifestyles. My personally confrontational with North America Government is finished. Better off working it in a safer and more possibly place where the environment is first.
         
         I say let them drag America to rock botton like an abused alcoholic for next 5 to 10 years. Then come back after the public REVOLUTION if the nuclear radiation, air, water, and soil is not confirmed totally useless.

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            ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            America is a fruitful and multi- ethnic work in progress that the world has the great opportunity to watch evolving .      The natives  have good points , but lack  legal standing and  reasonability ,    For sure that its safer and better for the environment  to send the oil by  trains , trucks, barrels  and ships than a pipeline - NOT !   
            
            I am sure that the beads that they traded and  treatied  for  in the land deals was well worth the effort  and the native blood in any of us boils when we buy rubber tires , oil changes , cell phones  plastics ....etc........right ?     Just which native in the crowd  is the  hypocrite  with the smart phone videoing the burning pyre's and tires ?

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      wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "if the government had included the souix in the project discussions from the get go, they could have settled any dispute quietly."
      
      Unfortunately, the government most definitely did include the Sioux...or tried to.  They weren't particularly interested in being a part of the discussions and even when given specific invitations didn't bother to attend.  So now we have the environmentalists saying the the Sioux never heard anything about it all - a blatant lie, but one they have repeated until a lot of people believe it to be true.  Were it not that one, there would be others for the intent is not to help the Sioux but destroy any interest in anything to do with oil and all it's products that we depend on in our daily lives.

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         ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         The Sioux , like all reservations in America ,like all indigenous of the world , are in reality a defeated people  ,  simply put ,  they will live by the treaty's  and rules of the mother country .

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            wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Much like I do.  I don't have a problem with that, but I DO have a problem when outsiders decide for the Sioux that they need to become criminals instead of law abiding citizens.

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               ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               It must depend on the national treaties as to What does abide though .  They have their leadership and the BIA  knows and communicates adhering to treaty rules ,I'm sure ,the  protest are but a popular protest  ?

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                  Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I watch oil Corporation destroy the land, health in Alberta, Saskatchewan, part in BC Canada..
                  The air quality is by worst in Canada, they need 4 water barrel for washing each barrel of oil. So many towns have spills pipes and dumping waste water into waterway tbat are now, not good for drinking, farming and even cleaning with anymore. People greed to work these death trap oil ended up selling their worthless house and many turn into ghost towns and will never ever be able to recovery the land or their ruin lives that once exist on a healthy earth place of once nice people.
                  
                  I rather Americans kill themselves producing oil than killing others for oil oversea, that is just my pipe dream. Zionist santantic nightmares will entertainment American with wars on TV.  Until the rich are shortening their own children life span , even then,  their greed has no bound until we stop them.

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                     ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     I have always thought that when a company ends it's profitable reign it should clean up it's sight , wind mills or grist mills , Pick up your own mess at your own cost , But no , tax dollars have to clean up Nuke plants now .

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                        Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Not in Canada, with mostly foreign Corperation investment with numbered companies that go bankrupted. Then string up with another Corporation when time is right. Then the Canadain Government another irresponsible Corperation holds the bag until they dump it on the locals who are already broke surrounded by toxic waste. It took me awhile to figure out seemingly nice people can do very bad things before I abandoned ship in my green hopes.

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         colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         How did you come about that revelation of intent? 
         It rings true in my inner most being.

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            Castlepalomaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            For 500 years all those dirty savages want is to steal our land and pollute the land untill it's all condemned useless.

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            wildernessposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Intent of the environmentalists?  I have never seen them, as a group, agree with anything at all that harms any animal, plant or ground.  The needs of the animal called "human" is the last thing to ever be considered, and that includes the desperate need for oil.

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               colorfuloneposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               I see now,  didn't make that connection.   
               
               “Don’t bring any more humans into being,” -  Paul Watson from Animal Planet 
               
               I sure is nice to have gas in the car to make it go.

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