http://news.yahoo.com/protesters-blocke … 39609.html
By Mariano Andrade | AFP 13 hrs ago
Hundreds of people marched near Wall Street in New York in a failed attempt to occupy the heart of global finance to protest greed, corruption and budget cuts.
Plans by protesters to turn Lower Manhattan into an "American Tahrir Square" was thwarted when police on Saturday blocked all the streets near the New York Stock Exchange and Federal Hall in Lower Manhattan.
The demonstrators had planned to stake out Wall Street until their anger over a financial system they say favors the rich and powerful was heard.
I like the basic premise..even though big money controlled their march...it reminds me of the 60's protesters.
Let me guess: All the Tea Party marches did NOT remind you of the 60s?
These people's best friend is Ron Paul, but they likely won't give him the time of day because they've been misled to think that profits are evil.
The Tea partiers protests were led mainly by middle aged middle class people and these are lead by young people seeing their futures dwindle away..like the sixties protesters they are concerned for the future...
If they were genuinely concerned for the future they would have marched on the Social Security Administrations Offices or on Congress. Their future has been taxed away or spent away. All the assets controlled by all the top 1%, if seized, could not retire the debt which will burden this economy for decades.
So you are saying that the TEA party marches were lead by the same generation of people who marched in the 1960s? Astounding, I know several young people with "Taxed Enough Already" bumper stickers. I would venture to say that the occupy Wall Street crowd are just liberally indoctrinated, college aged, feather heads
I like that analogy. Does that mean things do follow the 'cycle' theories such as the Grand Supercycle?
There are some protestors, hidden leaders, who understand the Federal Reserve. I'm fairly certain the organizers from Anonymous who made this possible know all about the Federal Reserve.
The problem is the Federal Reserve is a rather convoluted and difficult concept for the average person who went through a conventional education to understand. In order for the protest to be successful, mass numbers and time are needed, and I'm convinced the protest wouldn't have picked up and last as long as it has so far; had the Fed been the target.
Simply put, outlining the massive Wall Street bailouts are a little easier for the masses to get, and even then, most still don't get it. . . A clever revolutionary must go for what's possible first, even if it means chipping at the knees of the dragon rather than the head. . .
I'm certain there are plans for the Federal Reserve. Just have a listen/look at this guy (of course the mainstream media will never show him and people like him):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQow0Fhu … re=feedlik
I often listen to this when I'm depressed to cheer me up!
Wow, brilliant. I urge everyone to watch this. It's about America, but it applies everywhere.
Have to say though, I doubt if most of the anti-Wall Street/anti-bank people even know about stuff like fractional reserve banking. I doubt if most people know about fractional reserve banking. The mainstream media and the education system certainly isn't telling them.
Speaking of YouTube videos, how about Alessio Rastani:
He's been villified for glorying in the opportunity to make money out of the recession, but he's really just telling it like it is.
2:38 - "Governments don't rule the world - Goldman Sachs rules the world." How that one slipped past the BBC censor, I'll never know.
Goldman-Sachs is the actual "Haliburton" that liberals tend to fear. Their officers routinely rotate through the Federal Reserve and through the Department of Treasury. The whole idea of a Carbon Credit Market is a multi-billion dollar transfer to G-S. They act like puppet masters in Washington. A thorough investigation of the Federal Reserve and its connections to G-S would be a step in the right direction.
All that's perhaps wrong with the liberal (US definition*) pov is that it seems to put far too much faith in governments as a means of rectifying the problem, when in fact governments are actually part of the problem.
In other words, you don't just have the military-industrial complex, there's the financial-government complex and probably several other "complexes" too. Fascism in the truest sense of the word.
*The word "liberal" means something different to me, as a non-American.
And the conservative pov puts too much faith in business as a means of rectifying the problem, when in fact business is actually part of the problem. Neither government nor business by themselves are evil - it's the intersection of the two that's the problem.
Incidentally, most liberals I know are much more aware that GS essentially runs the US government than most conservatives I know.
If you took either one (government or business) out of the equation and left the other, I think you'd still end up with an elite at the top with the potential to misuse its powers. This has already been put to the test at the government end of the spectrum, with the Soviet Union and other Communist countries. The libertarian (business-only) side of things is untested, but I personally think it would result in a very feudalistic set-up, with individual geographical areas being in the virtual control of company owners (I sold my soul to the company store type of thing).
So rather than saying that the problem lies in the intersection of government and business, I would say that it lies with individual people who have a desire for power and/or money, and are prepared to use one as a tool to get the other.
What I'm also saying is that both the libertarians (who say "get rid of government!") and the socialists (who say "get rid of capitalists!") are being too simplistic.
I'll accept that revision, and agree with the rest of your post as well.
Unfortunately, I don't think I've seen a system yet that can negate the influence of that aspect of human nature.
Neither have I, sadly.
I suppose a corollary to the unscrupulous-people-wanting-power/money thing is the people who are prepared to give up the responsibility for their own lives and put it in the hands of those unscrupulous people.
The problem comes in recognising that desire in oneself (most of us have it - I know I do) and knowing how to forestall and/or resist it, and how to recognise unscrupulousness when you see it. It covers a much wider area than just politics and economics.
There is unliely to be a system that negates the rich being greedy for wealth and power, that is why they are rich. The issue is how much control the mass, 99%， can exert over them. Until the state and money are separated along with religion it will be about balance not winning one way or the other.
My impression is that this is not the case in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Netherlands and several other countries which have democratic governments and much less inequality in wealth and income than we have in the US.
And I don't think the socialists are necessarily saying "get rid of the capitalists." They are saying lets have sufficient regulation of them to assure that the markets deliver honestly on their promise of efficiency and bounty for all. Here's a current of a need for regulate "flash trading:"
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/busin … et.html?hp
I expect there are people from those countries who can probably provide ample evidence of both corporate and government corruption and elitism (including extreme bureaucracy, which I would class under this heading).
Even though as you say, they probably don't have the extremes of wealth and poverty that you might have in the US.
Inequality has increased in the U.S. to the point that more and more people are losing faith in our democratic market system--This is driving both the 99% Occupy Wall Street movement and to an extent the Tea Party as well. There is considerable overlap between the TP and 99%. Both groups are expressing their alienation with our economic and government systems.
My feeling is that the more spongy layers of regulation are slapped onto the cake, the more layers of icing the traders will come up with to cover them.
Food analogy. Did you see what I did there?
When I use liberal it is in the American style, though the Liberal Party in Britain tends to share a great deal with American "liberals." The common denominator in the current financial debacle and the "military industrial complex" is government.
An unrestrained government is deadly. We have witnessed this many times in the past and are living through it again. In the United States the powers of the Federal government were intended to be finite and limited. American liberals have succeeded in reversing that status and investing emotion in the expanded federal government.
Ultimately, the limited and finite power of the Federal government will be, if it isn't already, unlimited and infinite resulting in an omnipresent state during an age of unlimited monitoring - George Orwell may have been more prescient than people believe.
So you are saying that the mass number of these protestors are useful idiots being steered toward a revolution?
I wonder when George Soros will step out of the background with a little beard and hat. Luckily liberals still hate guns. If they ever learn the place of firearms in American history the country is screwed.
There was deodorant used by the TEA party rally people and hemp was scarce - two notable differences.
Have you heard the latest interviews with the marchers?
Interviewer "Why are you here"
Protester "Uh, we don't know, they are going to let us know soon."
Really? Isn't that a little backwards? Have a cause, then protest, march, etc. Maybe if they had an idea that they are getting angry at the system and nation that allowed them to have free speech and an iPhone they might take some time to think.
So - you have not even begun to wake up yet !? you still choose to believe the media of your masters instead of what you see plainly in front of your face, on evey bill you struggle to pay and those credit cards you are paying off - and the job that is likely to dissapear any minute ?
I am glad to see them out doing something. The first step is to get off the couch. Good for them.
One of the things that frosts me about the banksters is that they want to go back to doing the same risky things that caused the recession. They have been lobbying hard against Dodd Frank and other regulations. They rushed to pay back the bailout money so that CEO compensation wouldn't be federally limited. They are back to their old fxxk the poor and middle class schemes.
You mean the "bankers" that run the continually insolvent Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac? Or do you mean HUD that continues to pressure banks to make very bad loans? Or do you mean the FHA, along with FMsquared, that continues to insentivize greedy borrowers who want the biggest house they can't afford?
The Strip Brian McFadden in the NYTimes 10-9-11.
(Sorry the image is so small. It's pretty funny.)
Here's a link to a larger image of the cartoon:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011 … ef=opinion
sad but true Ralph
Herman Cane interview..it's your fault..
Just saw a clip on the news....Mayor Menino of Boston said he support the OWS issues too!!
We ARE turning a corner Hollie.
Maybe it's truly coming to be over for the Profits Uber Alles Crowd.
I am saddened by this. Not that it is occurring, but for my ignorance. They are camping out in/at San Diego civic center this weekend. I only caught a tid-bit on TV. Even though I have an understanding of the Federal Reserve and a little of economics I must admit my head has been buried in the sand. Go to work, eat, sleep, and the cycle begins again. But, I vote on no particular party line. However that said, I have to say I look to leadership for guidance, yet have become disillusioned with those I accepted as leaders beginning at the community level and upward. This thread for me is like walking out of 'Plato's cave.' Thank you everyone for sharing your views and educating me to get with it, so to speak.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's ignorance! We are all ignorant to some extent, more often that not the powers that be want to keep us this way. We have media reports that we're supposed to be able to trust, and leaders too. If they let us down, they are to blame, not the other way around.
Thank you Hollie. I agree, I may have been kept this way by 'leaders' and trust. I'm gon'na give this some time to simmer. It was a lot to digest. But, I don't want to go back into the cave either - smile
My mind is still abuzz with the Supercycle and Elliot Wave theory. I had long forgotten about it. I read a hub on aging today. Odd, the issues of my youth are becoming important again as I think of my nephews and nieces, which some have recently graduated from University. I wonder too, though realizing not directly related to this forum topic, have I contributed to the generation gap by being complacent or non-participatory. I said I would let it simmer - huh?
At some point, I think we all have. Never too late to wake up though.
I don't understand why no one is protesting the salaries of professional sports players. They make more than corporate executives, and they don't do anything to help the economy.
They do have very short careers. Also I do not think that fans pay hundreds of dollars to see executives?
It's a false, apples to oranges comparison.
Are sports figures overpaid for their contribution to society? Sure.
How about actors? Surely the amount of entertainment any one actor provides in any one film is not equal to millions of dollars.
But... neither sports stars nor actors are actively bilking the public or being deceptive in their actions. Any harm done to/caused by professional athletes is limited to themselves, other players and their teams (and the team's owners).
Greedy bankers, on the other hand, use their insider knowledge and influence to make themselves rich AT THE EXPENSE of the people they fool.
Same with the CEOs of big companies that get millions of $ in bonuses even when their companies falter and fail. Case in point, the CEO of HP who just got canned (and replaced by Meg Whitman).
He walked away with a big old golden parachute despite the fact that got fired!
WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY????
"In this King World News exclusive interview, Harry Markopolos the Whistleblower who brought down Bernie Madoff’s $65 billion Ponzi scheme reached out to KWN with the latest fraud he and his team have uncovered. Markopolos stated, “The Bank of New York is going to go down, Eric. Between Bank of New York Mellon and State Street, these two institutions have stolen between $6 to $10 billion from tens of millions of Americans retirement savings accounts. It’s been a hell of a crime spree for the bank, but now they are being brought to justice.”
Markopolos also told KWN, “The New York Attorney General filed suit on Tuesday (against Bank of New York Mellon) for stealing money from pension funds on currency transactions. This theft has been from tens of millions of Americans, policemen, firemen, librarians, municipal workers, judges and the list goes on and on and they’ve been doing it for decades."
Need anyone say more?
Well we all know he started out as a Democrat
(Seriously, I am waiting for that accusation to be leveled against dear old Ronnie, now that he no longer represents GOP ideals and values!)
For those who like things summed up visually in charts and graphs, here's the problem shown multiple ways.
How can anyone defend this????
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02 … hart-graph
Oh man....now I'm going to vomit.
And just think....Cain wants to LOWER the rich taxe-rate EVEN more! To 9%.
I really can't believe this crazy bunch of criminals are ACTUALLY taken seriously!..It's mind-boggling.
Well you know the answer to all of this.
Since I am learning or relearning, in a sense, MM that was very helpful. It has prompted a new folder for me in bookmarking - economics or should I change that to 'game theory!' Thank You!
yes it is a great link, oh yeah and nice pic you have you look very nice.
~~ lindsy lohan
Six demands to make on Wall Street here:
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2011/ … lists.html
Another campaign running in parallel to OWS
lol that is really funny and i like the name that you picked out for your username that is a cool name lol
The OWS crowd are very much like the Tea Party. They're angry about many of the same things; they just blame different people for the problems they're angry about. And the Right is saying similar stuff about the OWSers to what the Left said about the Tea Party.
But the Tea Party lost their focus. They're not complaining about bank bailouts anymore, have you noticed? They're complaining about pretty much anything the President tries to do, even if it's stuff they supported under the previous president. They're now just basically the far-right arm of the GOP.
In time, the OWS may become the far-left arm of the Democrats, but it's still early days.
One more thing: the original Tea Party? The one in Boston Harbor? Yeah, those guys destroyed tons (literally) of privately-owned corporate property. The same bunch of people also (on different occasions) vandalized property and assaulted government officials, tarring and feathering some of them, and beating others to within an inch of their lives. That's the crowd the Tea Party identifies with: the Sons of Liberty, which would, by today's rules, be considered a terrorist organization.
Government subsidized and protected with corporate officers and governors with royal connections, the East India Tea Company was more like Sinopec Limited than Apple. Saying the tea was private property is like saying the mail is delivered by a private company.
During interviews many of the "occupiers" have parroted Lenin, Mao and Stalin - their hands are much bloodier than any of Sam Adam's radicals in the streets of Colonial Boston.
"Government subsidized and protected with corporate officers and governors with royal connections, the East India Tea Company was more like [Goldman-Sachs and Bank of America] than Apple."
There, fixed it for you.
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