It appears the GOP attempt to repeal and replace Obamacare is stalled

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   jackclee lmposted 5 years ago

   What is your opinion?
   In my humble opinion, these few GOP senators that is blocking the bill, are miss guided.
   Even if the bill is not perfectly worded, they should pass it. That way, the whole system can be revisited.
   How it gets implemented in detail has very little to do with the actual language in the bill.
   Just look at the current implementstion and you will see numerous examples of how the administrators and the HHS has made exceptions and all kinds of regulations not in the original bill.
   My point being, if things are left alone, we can look for disaster down the road...
   At least, if a new bill is passed, we can begin to revamp the system. The new administration can do the same thing and rework the healthcare insurance industry...

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      gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Totally agree, Jack.   Obama"care" is more of a liability than an asset but some congresspeople refuse to acknowledge this.   In some of their minds, anything Trump they are against without considering the results.  Trumpcare seems to be a much better alternative than the disaster known as Obama "care".   However, McConnell wants to repeal Obama"care" again.   Trump is even stating that he wants to repeal this disastrous Obama"care".   Well, there is going to be a LONG ROAD UPHILL regarding the situation at hand.

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         jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         The Democrats are not thinking ahead. If Obamacare is kept in place and it fails down the road, they will be blamed. If they help pass a repeal and replace, at least, they can claim some of the credit for repairing a bad system...
         
         The GOP cannot get any major legislation passed. Even when they have the majority of both houses. How pathetic.
         
         If the Supreme Count can interpret a penalty as a tax, what difference does the wording of the law makes...the GOP would be much better off if they just pass any form of the bill and fill in the blamks later.

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            ptosisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            .... after half a year of consolidated GOP control, not a single major piece of legislation has been enacted. The House blames the Senate: At a press conference last week, Kevin McCarthy, the majority leader, waved a chart of 226 House-passed bills that the Senate hasn’t taken up.  The Senate blames the House. A Russia sanctions bill passed the upper chamber with 98 votes a month ago, but it has yet to come to the floor in the House.
            
            .the GOP would be much better off if they just pass any form of the bill and fill in the blanks later.
            
            That's a great half-baked idea, activity does not equate progress - oh wait - that's right this is Congress - a group of baboons.
            
            
            

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               jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               The Problem with Congress applies to both party when in power...
               They are all part of the swamp that needs to be drained.
               That is why term limits is the only solution to end cronyism, and corruption and waste.
               I hope the American wake up to the fact that either party are not looking out for the folks.

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         2. 84

            gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            EXACTLY, the Democrats are doing this because they hate Trump.   There is no logic in their plan.  Just repeal Obama"care" already- this excuse of a healthcare is doing nothing but further crippling America socioeconomically.  Trump has a long road w/these DEMON-crats.

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      wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Disagree with you for once.  If this "revamping" of ObamaCare can't get enough support then don't vote it in.  We already saw what a health care without general support produces and we haven't "revamped" it, either.  There isn't a reason to repeat the failure from the other side of the table.

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         jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         So what do you suggest? Let the current bill fail down the road so that we will need to fix it then, much more expense and headaches...?

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            ptosisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I guess you get to choose which headaches and expenses you would like to incur.
            Loss of 1 million jobs if passed.
            NYS Gen Atty Suing Feds if passed
            208,500 additional deaths could occur by 2026
            
            
            But that's OK, it's just the poor, old and chronically sick, "useless eaters' in eugenics speak - why waste money on the FInal Solution when can do nothing and still get the same result?
            
            
            
            
            Members of Congress and their staff members are required by law to purchase their health insurance through the exchanges offered by the O-care. However, the federal government subsidizes approximately 72 percent of the premium cost.
            
            My question is - 72% subsidized for people who make more money that most people in USA - why get a large subsidy?
            
            T-Care: Senate Republicans included a provision that exempts members of Congress and their staff from part of their latest health care plan. This exemption could have the effect of ensuring that members of Congress have coverage for a wider array of benefits than other Americans who purchase their own coverage. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics … -exemption
            
            
            
            
            
            

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               jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Where did you get your numbers? From the CBO estimates, which has not been correct in all their projections about Obamacare and just about anything else? It boggle my mind that some people will believe anything irregardless of facts... why do you think we are in this mess? It is the Congress and its failed legislation...don't believe these crazy estimates...
               by the way, no one can get elected for supporting killing people and the environment. Why do be believe in these lies about the GOP? How did they win elections?

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                  ptosisposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  How do they win elections? Good Question! Why do people vote against  their own interests? I'm not going to google it for you but basically people vote against their own interests because they believed the lies that were fed to them. They believed in a complete lie of Reagen's "welfare queen", the uppity black woman who keeps having babies for the money and drives around in a Caddy.  That woman never existed.  The llying has never stopped.
                  
                  You get to choose the lies you wish to believe in.

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                     jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     No I don't have to choose. A lie is a lie no matter who tells it.
                     The same goes for party. I have no allegiance to any party.
                     I am Conservative, Christian and a Constitutionalist.

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               wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               While this furor over Congress getting the same insurance as the rest of us makes a wonderful screaming point, I don't think it is very realistic.  I've had employer plans that were good, employer plans that were bad and employer plans that were in between.  Demanding that this particular job offers only insurance that is equal to the bottom of ObamaCare, or any ObamaCare at all, is unrealistic.  It is a bennie from the job, not a political toy to sensationalize, emotionalize and throw around as if it means anything.
               
               We allow business to offer differing plans; there is no difference here.  It may be distasteful, but then so is the retirement program they have and even the salary they draw.  IMO opinion of course - you may feel that politicians that cannot produce what the nation needs should be paid double what they already are.

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         2. 95

            wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            Well, the obvious answer is that 100 Senators work together to come with a revamping that stands a good chance of working.
            
            I don't see it happening.  Which in turn means that the "obvious" answer is to let the system fail - a solution which I suspect many senators would like to see.  A sad commentary on the ability of our congress to run the country, isn't it?

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      Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Great news, that ought to slow the GOP juggernaut down a bit. The protests against Trump and the GOP idea for healthcare rises each day.
      
      Until concessions are offered responsible Dems will NEVER find themselves aboard the Trump express.

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      1. 79

         jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         You can cheer all you want. The loser is you and me. Why can't you see that?
         It is frustrating dealing with intelligent people who refuses to act in the interest of themselves and the rest of America.
         Why do we let party politics determine our future well being?

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            Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

            No, you are letting the GOP party and Trump dominate your thinking. So many of you conservative types like to come off as unaligned, when you are merely a 5th column for Trump and the oligarchy he supports.
            
            If I let YOUR gang have its way more people are going to be hurt than will benefit. But, you are getting that message through the protests. So, when it comes to the GOP and its agenda, from a progressive viewpoint, obstruction is best!!

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               wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

               Now THAT isn't true at all.  If we let things continue as they are will ALL most certainly suffer as the entire system breaks down and fails.  And all the posturing, all the fantasy pictures painted and all the protestations that "YOU WANT THE CHILDREN TO DDIIIEEE!" aren't going to change that.

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                  gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  +1,000,000,000,000,000- REPEAL OBAMA"CARE".   Trumpcare seems to be a better alternative.

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                     wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     *shrug*  I haven't seen it.  But it is not possible that it carries a higher probability of either ruining the health care system or bankrupting the country, for ObamaCare has a near 100% chance of it.

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                     psycheskinnerposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     Those of you who think any of the new plans are better, which and and by which analysis?  So far the have all covered fewer people and charged them more.  They only get cheaper if you get coverage that covers almost nothing so you will get no care if you get cancer, are in an accident, or become pregnant.

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                        jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                        What are you basing these numbers on? The CBO? They have been wrong completely in the past. What makes you so sure they will be right this time.
                        A new plan is by definition a better plan than current plan, failed Obamacare.

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               2. 77

                  Credence2posted 5 years agoin reply to this

                  If that is so, then you better be advocating for a bi-partisan solution. I haven't heard a great deal of interest in that. Trump has not met with the Democrats in any fashion to discuss coming to terms. So, yes, if we go down in flames, it is the fault of the party that is in control in Washington and sheer stubbornness.

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                  1. 95

                     wildernessposted 5 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes, of course it will require bi-partisanship.  Anything of value does, which is likely part of the reason ObamaCare is such a failure.  It only had one side, one philosophy, representing it.

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   4. 90

      GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Hi there jackclee, your comment sounds like an instance of 'deja' vu - all over again'.
      
      Do you recall the strong Republican criticism of Nancy Pelosi's "we have to pass the bill to see what's in it..." statement when the Democrats were trying to pass Obamacare? Did you agree with that criticism then?
      
      Considering the problems with the details of Obamacare that came to light after its passing - I think that criticism was valid.
      
      How is your position, now, any different from Pelosi's position then?
      
      And your thought that a passed Trumpcare bill would be just the first step of a "revamping" process also sounds just like the Democrat's justification for passing Obamacare without knowing what was in it. "Pass the bill, and then we can work on the details."
      
      I have been unable to find any credible source for the "details" of Trumpcare - which isn't hard to understand since those "details" seem to change with every reconfiguration made to get more votes. Do you know any more about the bill than the rest of us, other than it is Trumpcare and not Obamacare?
      
      Can you see the similarity of your argument for passing Trumpcare with the Democrat's arguments for passing Obamacare?
      
      My opinion is that a bill should not be passed - just to pass a bill, and that the details of any legislation should be clearly defined and understood - before it becomes law.
      
      GA

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      1. 79

         jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         You are absolutely right.
         I am a conservative but I am also a pragmatist. I rather get something than nothing.
         The GOP should learn from Democrats. When they are in the majority, they stick together and pass whatever bill they propose even if it is not good for the people.
         When some GOP members try to be pure, and stand by their principles,  they end up getting nothing.
         I am a pragmatist. I see things as they are. The GOP needs to pass any bill to repeal Obamacare, not because it was a democrat bill because it is a failed bill and bad for our economy. Some of the regulations is what is keeping our job market so anemic.
         I see a broken system where both party talks a good game but again and again the American people ends up with the short end of the stick.
         Term limits to get those old guard out and new blood in. We at least will have a chance of doing something good.

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            GA Andersonposted 5 years agoin reply to this

            I think political pragmatism is a good thing too jackclee, but not unconditionally so. I am sure we both can think of political instances when nothing really was better than just a piece of something.
            
            Here's an example from a recent conversation with Credence2 that I think you can empathize with; It has been said that Pres. Reagan was a political pragmatist, and his legislative accomplishments bear witness to that label. He was often willing to take less than he wanted - because that was all he could get - in order to have the opportunity to get more later. That is the definition of political pragmatism to me.
            
            Yet, he refused to accept getting all he hoped for in the arms talks with Gorbechev at the cost of killing his Star Wars program. He recognized there are limits to the application of pragmatism.
            
            And that is how I see your "pragmatic" thought that, "When they are in the majority, they stick together and pass whatever bill they propose even if it is not good for the people."
            
            That is not pragmatism, that is pure partisanship. Even to the point of criticizing Republicans that have principles that look to their constituents first and their party second.
            
            A truly pragmatic approach would be acknowledging that they don't have a bill worth passing, and to look instead to whatever Obamacare failures they can affect until they can come up with a bill that does more than just put a check in the Republican "win" column.
            
            GA

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2. 73

   abwilliamsposted 5 years ago

   After this failed in the Senate last night, President Trump responded, "Republicans should just repeal failing Obamacare now and work on a new Healthcare Plan that will start from a clean slate".
   
   I agree, let us focus on a full repeal. Kill it and begin anew. 
   
   It can't become Trumpcare II, a former version of itself.
   It cannot be known as Obamacare lite, as Rand Paul has repeatedly called it.

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   1. 79

      jackclee lmposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      Yes you are right. They need to pass the repeal bill since they voted for it 50 times in the past.
      Now, they need to do it for real, not just for show.

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         psycheskinnerposted 5 years agoin reply to this

         I am less worried about their integrity than the 22 million people who would lose access to healthcare.
         
         The US is a representative democracy, people are meant to vote their conscience with the need of their constituency in mind.

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3. 73

   abwilliamsposted 5 years ago

   Cred - Meet with the Dems. Discuss terms with the Dems.
   The Dems didn't want any part of a discussion when they drug us down this road and got us into this disastrous mess, which is Obamacare.
   If the RINOs don't screw things up, we get this thing repealed and behind us. Then we start fresh.
   Individuals and Families need to be making decisions about their healthcare, not the Government. It is not the Gov's role and it sure as heck isn't their role to force us to purchase a product and then fine us if we don't comply.
   I think we've seen enough to know that they need to stay out of this Industry, whether enough people are willing to admit that, remains to be seen.

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      gmwilliamsposted 5 years agoin reply to this

      +1,000,000,000,000,000,000.....

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