Here are the 7 -
"Arizona's John McCain, Alaska's Lisa Murkowski, Ohio's Rob Portman, Tennessee's Lamar Alexander, West Virginia's Shelley Moore Capito, Nevada's Dean Heller, and Maine's Susan Collins were the dissenting GOP Senators on the Obamacare Repeal Reconciliation Act (ORRA) Wednesday. Collins is the only one out of that entire group that voted against the 2015 bill."
Why are they Republicans? Shouldn't they join the Democrats...RINO...
They are so dishonest. They voted for it before they were against it...
They are forcing Obamacare to continue as is and will fail down the road.
We are headed for a single payer system. That was what they wanted in the long run.
It is clear to me that these huge comprehensive bills such as ACA does not work and will not work...
Now we are left with the process of incremental fixes...
Why didn't they create an incremental bill in the first place?
A 2000 plus pages of anything is useless gobblygook...
We need clear,simple language, common sense rules.
Why can't legislators legislate?
Jacklee, I call them the Magnificent 7.
You just lost, you're not just going to repeal Obamacare without an acceptable alternative.
Instead of just attacking Obamacare your GOP buddies should have been working on viable alternatives during the last few years of Obama's term. The GOP only has itself to blame, but don't they always?
We will continue to whittle at the rest of the Trump agenda, one piece at a time.....
I didn't loose. The American people lost. Obamacare is destined to fail. What will you do then?
You are right. We have waited a long time for the better system that Trump and the GOP have kept promising after they were going to kill ACA on the first day of the new Trump administration.
So you are fine with the status quo?
When Democrats win elections, like Obama in 2008, he can claim elections have consequences...
He forced ACA on the American people without one GOP support...
He bankrupt our country with $20 trillion in debt.
In 2017, GOP wins majority of both houses and the Presidency and yet, now we need to have bipartisan support to do any new legislation...
What is being cheered is a few GOP RINOs...
Where are the adults in the room?
Let me propose the following. Why don't the GOP be smart and just implement the same Democratic agenda...
This way, they get the credit and keep the power. Since, they seem to loose in the arena no matter what. Haha...
The status quo is always preferable before I trust a Republican or Trump on anything.
Just like the GOP has chosen to cloister itself to develop its scheme for health care, they are and have been willing to ram it through with no Democrat supporting it. So, I say, "tough", may the RINO continue to gum up the works, keeping Trump and the GOP in a constant state of disarray.
"He bankrupt our country with $20 trillion in debt."
I cannot deny the statistics here, but I trust the GOP far less and over wider areas of concern.
The pachyderm party had better consider a bipartisan approach, otherwise they will continue to find themselves dead on arrival or a 'day late and a dollar short', or should I say "vote short". May fortune favor the "Rinos".
As for the Adults, let talk about the tantrum of your fearless leader, "The Toddler in Chief" and his threat against Alaska and her constituents because its Senator is not going along with the 'party line'?
As for applying the same Democratic agenda? What do you think that the GOP has been doing in regards to this topic? They would if they could, but they cant and they will go down to stunning defeat that will reflect on the viability of Trump and his agenda.
Try not to be upset, Jacklee, do not underestimate the power of the left. But, with the certainty and reliability of a gravitational field, the power of the progressive agenda will bring down the rightwingers and their nefarious schemes.
Please offer some facts on how ACA is failing.
The exchanges set up under ACA are going out of bisiness. In many States, they are left with very few options. In some cases none.
The cost has sky rocketed by many folds.
The deductibles are high for the cheaper plan. It is as if you don't have insurance at all when you have to pay a few thousand dollars out of pocket before the coverage begins.
Many covered by ACA is subsidized by the tax payers because they became qualified for Medicaid. This is a huge increase in entitlements which we as a country in debt cannot afford, unsustainable.
Many businesses are option out and decide to pay the penalty instead of adopting ACA...
Should I go on or do you get the picture?
Please do go on, because those are not quite facts.
1. The failing ACA you describe is actually the individual marketplace and not health insurance as a whole.
2. There are 3,000 counties in the U.S. Every county has at least one insurer this year. It's possible that 47 counties next year might not have an insurer for the individual marketplace. That's what happens with capitalism. I'm surprised a conservative is upset about a business chosing where to do business.
3. The cost has not skyrocketed. I buy my insurance in the individual marketplace and have had only modest increases. The "skyrocketing" only applies to younger people as a result in changes to the age discrimination clause.
4. The deductibles are not "high for a cheaper plan". The 30 or so plans that I reviewed for my insurance had a wide variety of deductibles according to how much you want to pay for premiums. This year, I chose one with high premiums and a low deductible.
5. ACA subsidies absolutely do not duplicate Medicaid coverage. They are two completely different types of coverage depending on income, state of residence and other factors.
6. I can't find a single article to support your claim that "many businesses" are opting out of ACA.
I don't know your circumstance and I will accept your statements. But here is my reality. I am covered by my wife's employer till I was 65. Under her health care insurance plan, since 2010, our insurance premiums have increased every year and our coverage has decreased and our deductibles has gone way up. In 2016, it was over 2000. That means, having paid over 2000 in premiums, we still have to pay the first 2400 in medical expense before any insurance coversge kicks in.
We are one of the lucky ones. I hav some friends with much worst experience in NY state...
This ACA was a plan to give away entitlements to people who chose not to be insured. That is why so many peope are getting subsidies through Medicaid.
It is also the reason our economy is stalled.
Business that have over 50 full time employees are forced to provide healthcare insurance.
I ask you, if you are a small business owner, what would you do?
Thanks for that explanation. I understand your point of view better.
People with health insurance from employers have a better situation than individual buyers because employers cover some of the costs.
As a one-person business, my deductible before ACA for my wife and myself was more than $10,000 a year because of the age clause that allowed insurers to charge me 5X more for premiums than younger people. ACA changed that clause to 3X, which brought my premiums down. But I realize that shift pushed higher premiums onto other people.
It's my understanding that Medicaid was expanded because of the 2008 recession that put so many people out of work. It's also my understanding that Medicaid covers the lowest levels of income while ACA kicks in at a higher level, but they don't overlap.
In answer to your question, businesses have been shifting health insurance costs over to employees for many years. My own coverage with an employer was increasing by more than 10% a year when I quit my job to start a business back in 2007. As a small business owner, I might do the same if it meant staying profitable. But I wouldn't like it.
These criminals have been at it for 30 years or more, McCain is just one of many that have gifted us NAFTA, Mortgage Crisis Bank Bailouts, and so much more... people want change, yet from Pelosi to Graham, Waters to Byrd (over 50 YEARS!!!) the people in D.C. never change.
I'm sure Trump's crew will find someone to visit an untimely death on soon. The sick are proving a more difficult target than anyone expected, but there are so many other vulnerable groups.
Go, the Death Party!
You are feeding into the lie.Trump is trying to save our healthcare system. He could have done nothing and it looks like the GOP wants to do nothing. Now it is going to fail on its own in a year or two. Obamacare was designed to fail. We will then get a single payer system like the UK or Canada...
It will fail because the Republicans sabotage it. People need to remember which party left tens of millions without healthcare when that happens.
edit: just a couple of stats...
The U.S spends 17.1 percent of GDP on healthcare each year. France spends 11.5 percent and is consistently rated the best health care system in the world by the WHO, in terms of service and outcomes.
The US could save one trillion dollars a year by adopting a rational approach to healthcare and save tens of thousands of American lives.
How did the GOP sabotage the ACA?
None voted for it...
It is in place despite every effort to repeal it and save our healthcare.
Now it is going the path as designed by the democrats.
It was designed to last 10 years and fail around 2020.
By then, all other insurance will be out of business and the government step in with a single payer.
Obama's dream accomplished...
Would it be better for the country if the GOP simply fixed the parts of ACA that aren't working?
I think a lot of people are tired of the bickering and just want solutions.
The bickering is a show put on for the likes of you who believe there is a difference in the parties in D.C.
Sadly, there is no difference between Reps and Dems in D.C. both sides are filled with the corrupt and criminal, both sides cater to what Big Pharma, Insurance, and Medical groups want... the money controls the votes, not the people, and not either party. Wake up to reality, it makes it a lot easier when you realize that Pelosi and Waters are just as despicable and criminal as McCain and Graham.... regardless of the party they belong to.
We are small business owners and we'll continue to be... a small business!
We could grow, but there is a cutoff point for us.
We can't afford to keep our doors open and provide mandated healthcare.
On a personal note, my husband and I pay medical out of our pockets (never have expected anyone to pay our way and never will)
We'll pay and then on top of that, pay a Fine to the Gov, because it is cheaper in the long run.
(just let that sink in)
A Fine, because of an unconstitutional maneuver implemented and signed into law by the overreaching Obama Administration.
Visions of FDR 'fixing things for us all' are now in my head. The Gov can hold onto our hard earned money better than we can....yeah right! (Another vent for another day)
The Government doesn't exist to make mandates on you or I for healthcare or for anything else. The Gov doesn't exist to 'fix things'. When they 'fix things', things get more screwed up and then they stayed screwed up, because they make sure of it.
The Government is supposed to work for us and the Gov's undivided focus needs to be on Protecting this Nation.
The free market must be allowed to work on its own, it isn't complicated. But, when the Gov inserts itself into everything, it becomes complicated.
Oh trust me, I and many other 'working stiffs' get this all too well:
" pay a Fine to the Gov, because it is cheaper in the long run.
(just let that sink in) "
The government we have today is far worse than the one our revolutionary forefathers fought against, I believe this is one of the reasons why so much effort is deliberately put into stirring up racial and sexist tensions in our country, if so many of us weren't busy pointing fingers at each other over race, religion, or sex, we would probably be focusing on where our problems are really stemming from (ie - no healthcare where we used to have it, taxes going through the roof) and enough of us might decide to do something about it that the D.C. swamp would indeed get drained.
So disappointed in Senator McCain...
That is why our Congress is not working...
We need new blood...and term limits or just vote out the old Senators who had been there too long and feeding on donations and lobbyists...
Where is their common senses and where is Mr. Smith when we need him?
All knows the ACA is going to fail,
Yet no one wants to change it for the better...
And make it sustainable...
It is like kicking the can down the road.
Thinking it will be someone else's problem.
The problem is, we are at the end of the road.
No more excuses GOP and Democrats.
You have the power to change things...
Just do your job.
No news conference, no talk, no interviews, no committe hearings...no excuses...
No anything except lock them all in a room until we get some legislation.
How is that for bipartisan solution to the impass.
jackclee, Would you consider that you are asking those legislators to accomplish a near-impossible feat; to find a way to make private, for-profit businesses, (the healthcare insurance companies), that are based on a risk vs. reward ratio business model, to offer affordable products while assuming all of the risk with no reward of profit.
That is asking, (or forcing), the insurers to offer their individual plan products as a charity arm of their total business.
I think you are right - Obamacare is failing. I also think you are right that our end result is going to be a national single-payer, medicare-like healthcare provision program.
But I disagree with you that the "no-vote" legislators are traitors. I think they are finally telling the truth. There just isn't a way to make a for-profit business offer a money-losing product without subsidizing their losses. And those subsidy costs are more than Americans want to pay.
I think both the Republicans and Democrats have been lying all along. I think the Democrats were smart enough to know that the ACA structure wouldn't survive. I also think they knew that once the public was given' the coverage through expanded Medicaid and Obamacare - the public would never accept that coverage being taken away. Which means that a single-payer system was the only real choice to accomplish the goals demanded by the public. I also think the Republicans knew this.
If the Republicans did have a viable plan that would have worked, why haven't we seen it in all these years since Obamacare was passed?
Senator McCain was telling the truth, the Republicans are not trying to pass a plan that will work, they are just trying to pass something just to get something passed. He chose to stand-up for his country before his party. In my opinion of course.
I understand all that you said. It still bothers the heck out of me that these politicians like McCain are so dishonest and trying to pull wool over our eyes...why did they vote to repeal 53 times...
It they believe in a single payer system, so be it. Let them sit down and hash out a bipartisan plan and presented to the American people for a vote. I didn't like how Obama did the original ACA plan and which has gotten us to this point. No GOP support...
Now 7 years later, it is harder to fix something that is broken...like you said. The genie is out of the bottle.
There are parts of the ACA I do support, just that the whole thing was a mess and it is the main reason we have not had a decent economic recovery.
I would propose the following:
Repeal ACA now.
Work in a bipartisan fashion to create a new simplified plan that can be incrementally done.
Does not need a whole comprehensive plan... which we know does not work already.
Any plan they come up with will be applied equally to all citizens, including members of Congress.
I think politics is the answer to your first question jackclee.
Regarding the flip-flop votes from the 2015 ORRA, (Obamacare Repeal and Reconciliation Act), and the 2017 ORRA, it has been said that because Pres. Obama had already declared he would veto the 2015 ORRA, the Republicans could vote their party line, without any concern that they would actually have to implement a plan. But... the 2017 ORRA vote very definitely would require a workable plan - and the Republicans don't have one.
I think that same logic might explain those "53" other votes for failed efforts - pure politics for show. They knew they would not succeed, so they would not have to back-up their rhetoric.
2017 was put-up or shut-up time, and I think the dissenting voters faced the truth, and put their country over party.
I also share both of your thoughts; about how Obamacare was passed - unethical political chicanery, and, that we can't put the healthcare genie back in the bottle - it would be political suicide to take away the healthcare coverage those millions of people were given.
No question of adopting a healthcare system that actually works and does not cost the earth, I suppose?
Will, it is a matter of national will, ;-)
I don't think American citizens have faced the question of accepting a government-run national healthcare program. I also think that the majority of Americans want their cake, and eat it too. I can see a "Hell no! I don't want nationalized healthcare," response, and also a demand by a majority that the government do something to get them affordable healthcare.
I don't think most folks understand that an "insurance-type" program, (our current method of providing healthcare coverage), just cannot do what they want it to. We are seeing the reality of that now; a failing Obamacare, and no viable plan from its opponents.
But... I polished my crystal ball, and saw that the 2020 national election cycle will produce a Democrat president with a national single-payer program as a platform plank.
Suggest you obtain a higher quality crystal ball. While the basic premise is almost certainly correct, a little better ball would have provided some specifics. You know, like "We'll raise taxes on the rich to pay for it!" or "We'll eliminate business tax loopholes to pay for it!", or even "It will save the government a trillion dollars to provide free care for everyone!".
Your second rate ball also neglected to mention that there will be R's with a single payer plan.
Ha! No need for a crystal ball for the "tax the rich" part. Or the "loopholes" part either. Kinda like mentioning tequila, you know a hangover comes with it.
As for the Republicans offering a single-payer plan... I can't see that. But it would be a stroke of genius if they did.
Well just remember, Americans are paying at least one trillion dollars a year more than they need to for healthcare. That is going into the pockets of people who are not you.
It is also worth pointing out that private healthcare costs in countries outside of the US are far lower, too.
The average premium in the UK, for example, is around 1800 dollars a year. In the US, it is around 3000.
Apparently, in Wyoming it is 4,392 dollars. Wyoming must be a rough place.
Those were 2016 figures.
So why now?
He has been in Congress over 30 years. He has just found his courage? I don't buy it.
He is a politician first and foremost. He does not care for the average folks. He is beholding to big donors ahd lobbyist who wants to keep the status quo and drain the US government $$$. At some point, the system will crash and a single payer will be adopted. That was the intent of Obama. He said it in a speech back in 2006 while running for President. McCain is just playing the game best way he knows. Trump is trying to break this cartel... guess what, they don't like it, not democrats and not Some republicans...
You just don't get it do you?
Some people genuinely hate seeing their fellow citizens die unnecessarily.
It ain't always about the money.
And not all Republicans are sociopaths.
"Some people genuinely hate seeing their fellow citizens die unnecessarily."
Hard to believe when they just sit back and watch it happen. They could take them to a hospital, but guess that's too much effort.
This is another of those pieces of nonsense that gets touted around. You will not get long term care for diabetes, heart disease, cancer or any of the other major killers in emergency rooms. You will not get your teeth fixed (and rotten teeth take years off your life expectancy). You will not get mammograms or any other preventive medicine or screening...
This from before Obamacare:
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2 … -coverage/
You could buy the care for them...but you don't. Guess you don't care as much as you think you do, do you? Just demand that someone else purchase it, to assuage your guilt?
(You do understand that insurance is not care? That ObamaCare did not provide any care at all, just insurance that cannot be used because of extreme deductibles?)
There is some weird disconnect here. In single payer schemes, everyone who works, pays. Which means just about everyone.
Your loathing for the tiny minority who do not work, for whatever reason, is saddling you with an incredibly expensive and grossly inefficient healthcare system.
You really are cutting off your nose to spite your face.
They pay, yes. They just don't pay nearly enough to cover their own costs, now do they?
But you're the one crying that people are dying in the streets...while not caring enough to do anything about it.
People who work but cannot afford to pay for the most essential services and goods? Something wrong there.
How about decent wages, affordable healthcare, education which does not turn the young into debt slaves and a democracy which represents every group in your country?
Those things go to together, I reckon, but are fast receding from your grasp as the billionaires plot your future.
My interest is indirect, of course. I want to see a prosperous and secure America because prosperous and secure people make much better decisions than poor and frightened people.
The world needs some good decisions.
How about obtaining the necessary skills for something beyond entry level work? How about working through school to accomplish that and get those "decent" wages (defined as a life of luxury when compared to just 50 years ago).
When I was self-employed in the UK, I paid 7.80 pounds a week for 'National Insurance'. That was my health insurance and unemployment benefit contribution. Considerably less than a thousand dollars a year.
I so agree Jack! He is, in fact, a RINO and a huge disappointment (I do wish him well in his health battle though)
The Middle class has been squeezed and they are forgotten in all of this.
This group of Americans isn't being properly Represented and they haven't been for a long, long time.
GA: From your mouth to God's ears. And while you're at it, could you envision a national sales tax to replace the income tax?
Schumer and McCain just need to hug it out.
A meet in the middle, exchange a little bro love and then...
'Everything's Gonna Be Alright'!
Is Obamacare in a death spiral?
CBS News article: “Fact check: Obamacare is not in a death spiral … THE FACTS: Experts agree that the law is not currently in a 'death spiral.' " http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fact-check- … th-spiral/
Is the Trump Administration attempting to sabotage Obamacare?
1. 2017 ACA enrollment is down 4% from the previous year. Why? The Trump administration pulled all advertising encouraging people to sign up. When there was a fierce backlash, they relented to the extent that they allowed ads that were already paid for, and for which the govt couldn’t get the money back, to go ahead. From the Chicago Tribune: “A department spokesman on Friday characterized both moves as part of the new administration's opposition to the ACA and its determination to save money. "We aren't going to continue spending millions of taxpayers' dollars promoting a failed government program.” Up until the time when the Trump administration stopped advertising, enrollments were at the same rate as the year before. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati … story.html
2. Politico headline: "GOP uncertainty over Obamacare drives out insurers." The article goes on to say: “Obamacare markets are undergoing a slow-motion meltdown as Republicans stoke a climate of uncertainty while struggling to agree on their own plan for overhauling American health care.” http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/0 … ers-239281
Did senators McCain, Murkowski, and Collins fail the American people by voting against the last GOP attempt to repeal Obamacare?
From National Public Radio: “Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., along with three other Republican senators, [all of whom voted for the bill] stressed they would vote for the 'skinny repeal' bill only with more assurances that the bill, if passed, would actually NOT become law.” Graham called the "skinny" bill "a disaster" and "a fraud." http://www.npr.org/2017/07/27/539850088 … -confusion
No one, not even the GOP senators who voted for it, even pretends the Republican healthcare bill was good for the country. They tried to pass it for purely political reasons – so they could say they “kept their promise” to repeal Obamacare.
The Rich have advantages the poor can never have.
The Rich have money and power, but these corrupt the Rich.
What do the Poor have? Those who speak for them.
Power and money also corrupts those who speak for the Poor.
Who can we turn to, if not the rich or those who speak for the poor?
Who is incorruptible?
Who will keep us from becoming slaves?
You are obviously in sore need of a working democracy.
We have lost it, Will.
States' power has given way to the power of the central government.
States rights have been compromised / eliminated.
The local focus has given way to national / global focus due to media/technology.
The balance of powers within the government has become unequal and conjoined.
The people, themselves, don't vote because they are consumed with trying to survive while paying ever-increasing taxes.
Minimum wage bringing up the cost of life across the board.
What will bring back democracy?
Learning from the school of hard knocks before we become slaves and reversing what the progressives have worked so hard for.
And stopping them in their tracks.
Not to mention that THC is making the youth very stupid and lazy. "Who me? Vote?" "What me? Work?" Is legalizing this dangerous substance not a conspiracy to destroy American democracy? THC takes away drive and motivation. Without drive, people are happy to be on the dole and they will loose their health. They will become very expensive for all of us, the more unhealthy and addicted to who knows what else along the way.
We are all going to be paying for the increased use of marijuana.
So have at it, all you people who love the current health care insurance mandate.
Thanks for this freedom of speech.
https://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/ma … ots-future
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