How did a response to a stealing of cigarillos & jay-walking lead to the death of Michael Brown?
Jon Swaine: Wilson was entitled under Missouri law to use deadly force against Brown for two main reasons: if he believed that Brown posed him or others a threat of death or serious injury, or if he believed that Brown was trying to escape and that if he got away he would pose that same threat of death or serious injury. Neither of these fits accounts given to the media by Dorian Johnson and several other witnesses.
What threat was Brown to others? When pursuing a suspect (petty theft) why shoot them? Does the injury justify use of fatal force? Why not shoot in the leg instead of head/heart?
There is video of Brown's aggressive threat to others just prior to the incident that cost him his life. He wasn't shot because of petty theft. He had just victimized a business and a person with violent behavior.
Experience with violent people, especially if they get by with initial aggressiveness, demonstrates that they will generally increase their violence until they are stopped by an outside force so, in defense of the jury, it is not difficult to believe that Brown had quickly become even more violent.
At first thought, a leg may seem a long way from a head, but thinking through the possible scenarios--a larger man advancing on a smaller man holding a gun who's hands go up in defense or a larger man pushing/ grabbing the man with the gun--the shot could hit the aggressor anywhere. A policeman is trained to manage the situation in the safest way possible, but variables mean bigger risks to everyone, especially a criminal.
If a policeman tells a person to stop their advance and the person continues moving in any direction, the spot they will get shot in is undeterminable beforehand. The aggressor may jump, drop, plunge forward, or fall backwards as he attacks.
The media's handling of this directly contributes to the continuing violence and it is a shame that we are tolerating it. It is very sad that the people in that city have been influenced by the media's response to the decision of the grand jury.
The media could be helping the situation but they are inflaming it. The people there, with the right guidance, could pursue intelligent and productive avenues to highlight the issues. It's heartbreaking that they are choosing to destroy their own community and teach their younger people to self-destruct.
Look at the autopsy report before you come to these ludicrous "assumptions." Brown was shot once in the finger from trying to get Wilson's gun. 3 times in the arm (probably to try and stop him) once in the chest and the fatal shot in the top of the head. Brown never stopped resisting and was coming at Wilson the whole time. This explains the wound in the top of his head. He had put his head down and was coming after the officer. Ask yourself this; if Brown was running away why was his body laying "towards where Wilson was shooting?"
The "witnesses" you talk about are very unworthy sources. There were 6 witnesses that corroborated Wilson's account.
Which autopsy? The St. Louis County Medical examiner one or the one conducted by Michael Baden? Michael Baden said “In my capacity as the forensic examiner for the New York State Police, I would say, ‘You’re not supposed to shoot so many times,’ ”
I have read the entire autopsy. How many times it takes to stop a thug from killing you! If Michael Brown had just gotten on the sidewalk instead of approaching Wilson's car and striking him in the head over and over he would still be alive today.
All evidence shows us that Brown was a threat to the officer. If it were just petty theft, then death was not warranted. However, Brown did attack the officer, thus forcing the officer to take appropriate measures to defend himself. People need to stop listening to the lies and look at the facts.
First of all, I haven't followed all the facts closely in this case, so I'm speaking in general here. All I can say is that it surely is fortunate for young males that TEACHERS find other means on a daily basis of intervention even when a student seems threatening to the teacher or other students. Even though this example is on a much smaller scale, I think it has merit. I was working in a white suburban middle class school in MN. I'll never forget the day there was a deathly silence in the halls between classes. Two very tall, strapping, fit young men were surrounded by a circle of silent students. (If you've ever seen the beginnings of potential fight like that, you know the silence). They were posed to fight and staring into each other’s eyes. Coincidentally, and a bit humorously, I had taken my dog to obedience training class just the night before. Two of the dogs were standing, like the students, staring into each others' eyes. The instructor could see they were just waiting for one to make a move. She shouted to the owners, "Break eye contact. Now!" and helped one of the owners grab the leash and pull his dog's head away from the stare-down. (Of course, when I saw the students in the hall, neither had a leash I could pull I couldn't think of ANYTHING to do OTHER than to stand in the middle between them, my back to one of them, raise my arms up to be eye-level with the student, and start waving in front of the student I faced. Of course, it broke both students' stare, gave them an "out" and a way to back down. The student I was facing, turned around, picked up his books, and walked to class. (After all, this crazy teacher was standing in the middle of the two of them waving her hands like an idiot. It let them both walk away and save face.) Later, we would get the two to the office and discuss the situation, but that moment wasn't the time.
This may sound like a silly example, but over and over again, it seems as if the gun, instead of psychological tactics of disengagement are what we reach for. All that this whole situation in Ferguson illustrates is a societal disconnect between police and citizens in that community. Nothing comes from nothing. There's a reason for that disconnect and that is what has to be addressed. As a white woman in Orange county, CA, do you think I have ANY negative experience with police? It isn't because I'm any great, virtuous pillar of society. It's because of where I live and who people assume I am. Period!
Glad your intervention was successful, but I have a friend who had a different experience. She taught/became a principal in Miami…wanted to make a difference...student responded to intervention by stabbing neck, career ended, debilitated for life...
This is either absolute ignorance of the circumstances of this event or a complete denial of what has been reported as fact. Brown was not stopped for jay walking, but walking in the street blocking traffic and not for stealing of cigarettes, but strong armed robbery, a felony. This does not even speak to the cause of the shooting, but to the assault on the police officer in the car, another felony. The attempted theft of the officers gun, another felony and then charging the police officer, another felony, which resulted in the justified killing of this thug.
As for the other thug Dorian Johnson he will hopefully be brought up on charges of lying to a Grand Jury.
Your question is racist and as most all charges of racism lacks truth and serves to promote an, oh woe is me, mentality and even more racism on the part of blacks.
If you want to stop racism, start with the truth and as I am of German descent, I do not call myself a German or European American, but American. It might be a good idea if blacks started calling themselves Americans and not some attempt to inject some meaningless skin tone into the conversation. If skin tone is the best identifier, you've got nothing and it would seem that is what is left of Ferguson MO.
I am going to delete this thread but first I want to let each of you know I appreciate and respect your opinions even if they differ from mine because I'm intelligent enough to attack ideologies not people. Perhaps the thought of a conversation at this point and time is not at a time when people are prepared to convey emotions in a civilized manner.
The question I posed was designed to really ask the question how did a minor infraction of petty theft turn into death. It was just a "wow" moment of could things have been done differently or how did this entire end in a fatality.
I thank each and everyone of you for your opinions. Have a wonderful day.
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