Do you believe that poorer and/or less educated people have more children whom they can't support?
Do you know any ill effects to the child(ren) born to these families and society? If so, what are they?
I like that 'map of the 48 USA states - but it tells little of the reason many people deliberately choose to have a lot of children who do NOT live the USA or any of the so-called First World or Advanced nations.
Places like India, China, Indonesia, with their huge populations, have no Social Security 'safety net.' Their people rely on family to look after them, not society-at-large through government taxation. There is no Aged (Old age) Pension. There is no 'Unemployment (can't get a job) benefits. If they don't work...and continue to work...they starve. Or at least find it extremely difficult to live.
The way they solve this problem is to hope that when they're old, or cannot work for a living, their family members will support them. Little wonder those who don't have children can do it very, very tough.
Until all Nations in the world take on responsibility for the welfare of all of their people, those nations without Social Safety will continue to expand this world's already 'bulging-at-the-seams' world population.
My question is what does "afford" mean? I know people from who make poverty income and have savings and people who make a six figure income and are deeply in debt. Which can afford children. The one who values life or has an agenda. This is really a good question. The families I know who have little money and lots of kids(10+) have college graduates, business owners, teachers, accounts, engineers. Its all attitude and love.
Typical parents of large/very large families(6 or more children per family) are usually in the lower socioeconomic strata-lower middle, working, poor, & underclass. In addition to that, such parents are less educated with some having very little education. These components are par for the course regarding parents of large/very large families.
They also refuse to believe in family planning. It is their contention that children are somehow preordained. They further believe that whatever children they have, somehow God will provide. Some of them even believe that what their children do not have, they can well do without.
They also have a selfish attitude towards their children. There are some who have a void in their lives that they believe that children will fill. They incessantly have children, knowing well that each additional child will reduce the family into further penury; however, it is THEIR wants and THEIR WANTS must be fulfilled no matter what the cause to the rest of the family.
Parents of large/very large families have a poverty consciousness, mindset & philosophy which they in turn embed to their children. To them, poverty & struggle is what middle class is to the rest of us. They really do not care if they are impoverished & their children do without. They are of the belief that poverty & struggle somehow builds character. Parents of large/very large families really do not mind if they are poor-to them, that is normative.
Children in large/very large families have poor health care. They also have poor nutrition. They are behind intellectually because their parents do not have the educational nor socioeconomic wherewithal to educate their children. Many times, they must depend upon outside help to keep them & their families socioeconomically afloat. They oftentimes must work even in childhood to supplement family income. They may even become jealous of more affluent children because the latter have the opportunities that they DO NOT have.
I agree with your observations. Where is the mindset of doing what's best for the CHILD? What about preparing for & planning for a child or deciding that if one can't even support themselves that they should not create a child, let alone several?
You're very welcome, I agree with your observations. Some people create children without planning and forethought. Many do not take the all important and lifetime job of being a parent very seriously and children do suffer.
I chalk it up to stupidity & irresponsibility because intelligent & educated parents put much forethought & planning before they have children.
Question #1: No while considering there is not a definition for support and there is a presumption for poverty. One must consider the state of impoverished, IMHO. One more can be one too many even when there is only a first child with any socioeconomic status with its environment. That is a familiar plot in literature. And then there is the factor of time with any given status.
For instance a two child family intends to send both children to college. At a moment in time they can afford to send the first born. Time occurs and that cannot occur for the second born. Is that not an ill effect of being poorer and does it not have the propensity of a lesser education being of fault? Does it not point toward the mismanagement of money as a product of being educated? Or, is it simply fate with occurrence of time, which some say is the best teacher.
I dun'no . . .
There are many examples such as parents who have no income and no savings or those who procreate and refuse to help the other parent raise the child and pay a fair share of the child's expenses. Can they afford children?
Condition #1 - Undoubtedly they cannot afford children. Condition #2a That occurs across the classes. EX: in the middle class there are dads that do not help raise children. 2b Paying a fair share? Are we discussing deadbeat parents - mom & dads?
Yes, I'm discussing parents who are poor (financially, emotionally, educationally, etc.) Common deficits are monetary, emotional, & educational yet some of them create children without forethought/planning, nor giving the child their best efforts
The 1st thing that popped into my mind reading the Q was the TV show the Waltons. I dun'no why? Departure with this discussion regarding the Q is I do not accept 'poor' with meaning at or below the poverty level. A difference of viewpoint.
Totally understandable. I have personally seen people who cannot support themselves create children & thus create problems for their kids due to their lack of planning, thought, & money. A fairly large number of the kids truly suffer due to t
It is the poor that always have the MOST children. The poor are uneducated or less educated w/fewer options & outlets. Since they don't have viable outlets, they indulge in sex & oftentimes they have no birth control-result: pregnancy. The poor are instinctive people. They react, they don't use logic nor planning. Everything is immediate for them.
If you observe poor communities, they oftentimes abound in children. You see children all over the place. Poor people have LARGE families- that is the culture of poverty. As one advance educationally & socioeconomically, family size decrease. If you have observed people from large/very large families, they have a poverty mindset although some have left their impoverished beginnings. People from large/very large families revel in poverty & struggle because these things occurred in their formative years.
It is par for the course that poor & less educated people have LARGE families. That is why religion appeal to such people. These are the people who believe in the dictum to be fruitful & multiply. Typically large families are poor to impoverished headed by less educated, even Uneducated parents! That's nothing new.
As a result of impoverished "upbringing", those from large/very large families are always in struggle mode. They can't conceive of a lifestyle outside of struggle & poverty. They also look upon suspicion of those who are socioeconomically affluent & don't have to struggle. Everything w/large/very large families is an uphill & a constant struggle.
Children from large/very large families are quite happy being poor, even impoverished. That is quite normative. They are used to living & being on scraps. They are not like normal children who are used to a comfortable lifestyle. To those of large/very large families, a comfortable lifestyle is an anathema. If one observes those who grew up in large/very large families, they are used to going without. They are also quite comfortable living what normal people call a primitive existence. They are viewed as pariahs in our advanced culture & society.
GM , Just commented about the "poor " in the other , Do the rich help the poor ? Thread . Never discount the importance in the greatness of those who are raised and live "poorly ". They often possess higher and more healthy amounts of the better human qualities . I believe I have met even better people who you would surely consider poor . The poor probably have a far better grasp on simple reality .
Having been raised within what I'm sure you'd call poverty , I can say that as I was raised , I got to know a few economically entitled kids of my own age . I can tell you this , BECAUSE of their economics , they were more likely and did get involved in things like expensive drug addictions , fast cars and women , wasted higher education and all it's unused degrees , even early deaths do to the drug addictions , More importantly - the entitled kids I grew up with lived in and created even more broken family lives of their own !
So you can't tell us that the existence of poverty itself is such a crippling social disease as you're often implying , I have known many of the "poor " who could and often did pull a wad of cash numbering in the thousands of $ from their pockets to "do their business " . While to "look " at these people you would simply assume abject poverty . The "poor " in America are the real machinery of our economy , they are the nuts and bolts , wheels and cogs of the entire American economic system ........:-]
WRONG..….WRONG. The poor are becoming useless. In the future, poor people will become the underclass. We all know what happens to the underclass. As jobs disappear, especially blue collar, lower level white collar, & manufacturing jobs, the poor will turn to crime. However, more prisons will be built to contain such people. Also, the poor will be used as fodder for war. The poor will be lessened in one way or another.
Nothing's wrong w/being wealthy. It is the wealthy who carries society. They create jobs. They create better ways of living. The poor only decrease quality of life through crime, squalor, & other negative things. It is poor societies that create crime, delinquency, neglect, etc. To say that poor people have stellar characters is a crock of B************. Poor people are some of the most mercenary people around- they will sell their own children for $$$. It is the poor who expect that their children SACRIFICE for them. The rich don't do this- the rich SACRIFICE for their children & ensure their children's future. The poor just pop out children ad infinitum, not caring about the present nor future well-being of their children. Poor children seldom amount to anything educationally nor socioeconomically. Poor children grow up to be less educated, even uneducated adults in dead-end, crappy jobs. Stop drinkin' that kool aid, ahorseback. It is THE MIDDLE CLASS who is THE REAL MACHINERY of the economy, not the POOR who are modern-day slaves who will become the underclass once blue collar, lower level white collar, & manufacturing jobs...……..DISAPPEAR & such jobs WILL.
The poor are also the most uncivilized. Look at any poor neighborhood & you will see RAMPANT crime, shabby living conditions because the poor don't care about upkeep of their areas. Zoos are maintained better than the average lower income neighborhood. Poor neighborhoods=garbage, rat/vermin infestation, crappy schools/stores, high delinquency, high teenage pregnancy, large/very large families, & other negative occurrences. Poor communities are analogous to concentration camps.
Again, you GLORIFY & REVEL in being po'. Being poor & impoverished is nothing to revel in. That would be synonymous to reveling in having a low IQ. People want to live the best socioeconomically. Poor people don't care. I have seen this attitude among the poor children who attended school w/me. Poor people are happy being...…...MIRED in poverty. They feel that being po' is a BADGE of HONOR. They teach their children not to achieve but to be content in poverty. As I have said solidly middle, upper middle, & upper class people are FAR BETTER than the poor. The poor are THE BOTTOM. They are despised & disrespected while the solidly middle, upper middle, & upper classes are RESPECTED. Please read some books, thank you. Knowledge is POWER.
The "Poor " you speak of and the way you define them Are not just the very father and mother of all those wealthy , Wall street itself was founded upon some poor mans fields . Our forefathers were all "poor " agrarian farmers in their beginnings , Washington , Jefferson , Adams , farmers all who were brilliant weren't they ? Custer , Crockett , Abe Lincoln and every military hero or commander known to modern man .
Every Attorney , congressman , senator , every entrepreneur born knows of some one in their past from and of poverty , you are wrong about this all . I'm not surprised though ,this falls directly into every post I've ever stated about intellectualism alone , What good is wealth or intellectualism without the base , the platform of common sense ? That is most evident today especially in the revolving door of wealth itself . Wealth alone and intellectualism alone can be the destroyers of the world as we know it , one can go from poverty to wealth in less than one generation and then back , Why ? Because of the poor in the ingredient ? No. Because of the conceit !........................con't.
Yes, there are wayward children who were once wealthy & now are poor. They weren't instilled by their parents the value of education, smart work & strategizing. Children have to be instilled socioeconomic values early in life. They also must learn the value of education. They have to WANT as my late father said.
There is no better education in instilling the importance of education & wealth than to work in a homeless shelter. That will WAKE one up quickly. Many wealthier parents have their children work to learn the value of money. When children have to work onerous summer jobs, they quick REALIZE the value of a good, valuable education, knowing that if they don't obtain valuable/relevant education, that onerous will be a PERMANENT job condition.
I worked a summer job. I was one of the few middle class children working that job. The majority were impoverished children. The middle class children gladly worked without being asked. In fact, we relished those jobs. It was the IMPOVERISHED/POOR children who endlessly complained about such jobs. They cursed the jobs, they cursed their parents, & they HATED us because we were middle class.
They considered us stupid for working. They stated that if they were middle class, they wouldn't work summer jobs. I WANTED to work to learn. Those children DIDN'T & HAD to work. Some were fired but those children weren't happy campers at all. They cursed their poverty & THEIR parents. They were MISERABLE. All they wanted to do was FIGHT & SLACK off.
I have been around poor people through schoolmates, associates, & extended family members. They don't want anything from life. They hate & are envious of those who are more educated & socioeconomically affluent. They want a comfortable lifestyle but refuse to make sacrifices to attain such a lifestyle. They HATE, HATE, & drag anyone down who wants to improve himself/herself. Poor people are for the most part, toxic people who want to remain in the cesspools of society. Poor people in the United States are poor because of unintelligent habits & because of laziness, I have witnessed this firsthand from extended family members.
Poor people need TOUGH love. They also need to be reprogrammed on the value of education & achievement. They need to stop having an agrarian mindset in an increasing computerized world. I am going to teach you something, Ahorseback.
Poor people have a reactionary, even retrogressive mindset which is appropriate for the 18th-19th century but not for the computerized 21st century. Poor people think in agrarian ways which are outmoded. Poor people imbue their children into such medieval philosophy which explains why poor children will be increasingly left out as far as the 21st century goes.
Poor people don't value education. They see education as a total waste of time. They track their children into survival jobs which are the lower end jobs which will be eventually phased out. Poor people think their children not to think but to unquestionably obey. They tell their children that they are...…….POWERLESS. Poor people are poor because THEY WANT TO BE. Poor people hold themselves back.
Poor people also act unintelligently. They ACT, never think. In order to be successful, one has to THINK. Poor people exist at the basic, primitive level. They are 18th-19th century people in a 21st century world.
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