Bully Correcting - Parenting

1. 62

   Jessie L Watsonposted 6 years ago

   A couple weeks ago there was a local news report somewhere in the U.S. where a 10-year-old boy was suspended from riding the bus to school for bullying other children. His father decided to make him run to school (just under 2 miles) every morning for a week following closely behind in his pick-up truck.
   
   Personally, I find this to be an excellent example of parenting. The father quoted "you have 18 years to be a good parent, teach them everything you can about really feeling the consequences of their actions, and you have the rest of their life after that to be best friends". Based on some of the coverage, the father and the child were interviewed and it was clear that they had a very positive relationship despite the circumstances. It seems to me that people often confuse this type of parenting with out-of-control kids or perhaps even attribute it to the cause of bullying altogether. It's a complete reversal of logic that permeates our culture.
   
   Additional Thoughts?

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2. 71

   Aime Fposted 6 years ago

   I’m a big fan of natural consequences and this would fall under that category, I’d say. You can’t take the bus anymore so guess you’ll have to run/walk. Makes sense to me.
   
   I don’t consider myself to be strict when it comes to most things but if it involves a) safety, or b) how my child treats other people, I do think it’s important to be firm.

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   1. 62

      Jessie L Watsonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I agree.

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3. 80

   Kathryn L Hillposted 6 years ago

   I walked to school every single day since I was five years old. In Jr. high it was about two miles. It is not something to be made a punishment of. The ten year old may develop a dislike for a perfectly natural and enjoyable activity. When a kid bullies there's a reason for it. It is a symptom that he is being bullied. Find out where he is being bullied. His father, mother, teacher or other kids. Its not a single kid problem. Its a whole kid problem. As in whole community, family, social life and home.
   
   Therefore, I do not agree this is good parenting. It is bullying.
   
   PS Punishments are rarely effective.

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      wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Punishment.  Is that not another term for "consequence"?  And if a child never has negative consequences for negative actions, do they ever learn to behave?

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         The consequences of what?

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            wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Poor behavior.  Destructive behavior.  Dangerous behavior. 
            
            If life is filled with only positive reinforcement, never negative, then it seems to me that a child will never learn that gratification of their own desires can and will eventually result in very negative, very serious consequences in the future.
            
            After all, that gratification IS a positive reinforcement all by itself.

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               PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               I think that is an important point.  I agree with the idea of natural consequences, i.e., he was suspended from the bus so now he must walk to school.  I also agree with Kathryn that the reasons and motivations behind the bullying must be explored for any real change to occur in the child.  It is possible the parents are doing this; one cannot know from just reading the article.  Bullying is an indication of a serious emotional problem on the part of the bully, and if it is not addressed, the child will continue to be unhappy and has a greater chance of failure in school and in life.

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               1. 90

                  wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Absolutely the roots and causes behind the bullying must be addressed!  But I'm not so sure that it is an indication of serious emotional problems - is fraternity hazing that much different?  Or even the treatment of "lesser kids" by the popular ones?  The way kids often treat their siblings?  The disdain shown to "geeks" or, less often, "jocks"?
                  
                  There are many reasons for kids to mistreat other kids and they're not all some deep, dark, nefarious abnormality in the bully.  It certain CAN be, which is why it needs explored, but usually isn't and with today's zero tolerance even a first offence from a kid that is grumpy that day from playing video games too late can result in being suspended.

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                     PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     I guess I was assuming that if he was kicked off the bus then he is a repeat offender.  When my kids were riding the bus, they had a "three strikes and you're suspended" rule.
                     
                     I've never been a fan of hazing.  I don't think it's necessary for group bonding and tends to attract mean-spirited people.  Just my opinion, though.

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                        wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        Yeah, I did too.  Until I recalled the suspension of my grandson for striking a kid that had been bullying him for some time. 
                        
                        It's not that I don't recognize the difficulties a teacher faces but this zero tolerance thing has to stop.  It's the easiest path for the school to take, but it doesn't work.  No one, especially kids, can possibly lead a perfect life and when a kid is suspended or kicked out for a having a cardboard gun in his backpack or snapping at a classmate with an insult it's over the line.
                        
                        I rather like hazing...in a simple, harmless, way.  A practical joke or two, a little teasing about a harmless subject.  But sadly it grew into far, far more than that and people aren't just being hurt - they're dying from that "bonding".  Some of us (lots of us?) just don't seem capable of understanding the difference between hurting someone and and welcoming them with friendship and camaraderie.

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                        1. 62

                           Jessie L Watsonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                           Agreed. The bar seems to be lower for what is to be considered bullying these days.
                           
                           And also agreed on the hazing. It's a very ancient practice. There's no difference between hazing and tribal rites of passage. It's meant to catalyze and humble a person.
                           
                           There are tribes of people who ritually brutalize and humiliate their leaders so they don't confuse themselves with a god. It makes perfect sense to me.

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               2. 62

                  Jessie L Watsonposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  @ PrettyPanther & Wilderness,
                  
                  I'm not sure that bullying always stems from a deeply unbalanced life or personality. I think jockeying for dominance in respective hierarchies comes more or less naturally to people, especially children. That doesn't make it okay but it puts parenting in a most vital context. If we are to transcend these deep evolutionary motivations then parents should be at the forefront of this education and wisdom. Because if you think about what parenting is, it's preparing the child to engage the world in a way that they don't succumb to impulsivity and selfishness.
                  
                  I agree that some disturbed individuals should be evaluated and there are bullies out there who come from very problematic environments but it's less often so black and white. IMO.
                  
                  Side note:  @Kathryn, If making the child run is a form of bullying then the entire U.S. military has a bullying problem rather than being a well-disciplined functioning group of people who unite under the ethic of selfless service to the country.
                  
                  You seem to make the assumption that the child's behavior is somehow a consequence of parental negligence, to begin with. Children can be a**holes for no reason. This doesn't mean that they have to be understood or pampered. It means that some part of their naive personalities have to die so a more mature and respectable person can take its place. That's personal development in a nutshell.
                  
                  Lastly, you cannot always exercise reason and logic with children. Adults have a hard enough time not being driven by their emotions.

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                     wildernessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Well put.  And I'll add that children do not respond well to reason and logic, for the part of their brain that carries out those functions is not developed until into their 20's.

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4. 80

   Kathryn L Hillposted 6 years ago

   The ten year old should be talked to and listened to. Especially listened to. Why did he bully? What was in his mind at the time? Let him explain his reasons. His emotional state: His sadness. His anger.
   
   Kids want to please the adults in charge. They love us. Especially elementary school kids.
   
   If the father had talked to his son and told him how disappointed he was, it would have affected him more than a punishment.
   His son would have said, "I'm sorry I will never do it again."
   Father: "Will you please apologize to the child who you bullied?"
   Son: "No. He deserved it."
   Father: "Well, we will call up his parents and have a meeting. Next time come to me and I will help you deal with this sort of problem. Don't take matters into your own hands when you need the help of an adult"
   Son:  "Okay."
   
   (Hint: The son will probably figure out a better way to handle the problem, cuz he sure doesn't want to have his parent get involved!)
      
   
   PS I just saw a Wrinkle in Time, by Disney.
   A perfectly amazing movie.

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      Aime Fposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      You can talk, understand, and acknowledge at the same time as implementing consequences. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. I think letting children discover what happens in the “real world” (in a controlled setting of course) when they behave a certain way is valuable and teaches them to be responsible for themselves. That’s kind of powerful, don’t you think? Consequences don’t have to be punishment for the sake of punishment, you can form them to be learning experiences that build character and promote growth.

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5. 80

   Kathryn L Hillposted 6 years ago

   I disagree. Following the kid in a car and forcing him to walk was not an appropriate consequence.
   I think my advice is best:
   
   Pete's father: I am very disappointed in you, Son. I thought you would treat others better than that. We treat others with respect and kindness in this family."
   Pete: "I'm sorry, Dad, but I think he deserved it."
   Father: "Well, we will call up his parents and have a meeting. You don't have to take matters into your own hands when you need the help of an adult."
   Pete:  "Okay, Dad."
   
   His father arranges a meeting with Ben's mother and they discuss the approach: It involves setting the boundaries without blaming or taking sides. Neither is expected to apologize, for this spotlights the bad behavior. What you want is for the boys to accept the boundaries and willingly cooperate with the adults in charge.
   
   Meeting:
   Ben's mother. "Tell Pete what he did to you."
   Ben: "You bullied me!"
   Pete: "I bullied you because I was mad at you."
   Mother: "Ben does not like to be bullied. How would you like to be bullied?"
   Pete's Father: "Why do you do to others what you would not like them doing to you, Pete?"
   Pete: "Because he tells lies about me."
   Mother: "Ben, do you tell lies about Pete?"
   Ben: "Yes."
   Father: "Pete does not like it when you tell lies about him, Ben."
   Ben's Mother: I do not want you to tell lies about Pete any more."
   Ben: "Okay."
   Father: "Pete has agreed not to bully you ever again, Ben ... right, Pete?
   Pete: "Right!"
   Ben: "Okay and I won't tell lies about you either, Pete."
   Mother: "If it happens again we will make both of you walk to school for a week ...
   together."
   

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