In other forums, Seattle's "head tax" was brought up as gov't overreach to willie-nillie tax those who can pay it. (I am still thinking about it.) But the Seattle city council had a reason - a reason that my sense of justice finds compelling.
It goes like this: As more and more high paying (to execs, that is) large corporations come to a city, one of the unintended consequences is skyrocketing home prices. With increasing cost for housing due to the benefits from having a large corporation in your area is an increase in homelessness because citizens can no longer afford to buy homes or rent apartments.
What the city council wants these large corporations to do is pay for the harm they cause to the poor even though they raise the standard of living for some others. Seems right to me.
This explains it better than I just did: http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/13/news/co … index.html
Try watching a person in poverty go through a trial with a court-appointed attorney who spends five minutes preparing for the trial.
We have a capitalist system of justice in this country. Rich people and corporations get easy treatment when they break the law. Poor people don't.
Knew one young man subjected to an illegal search and seizure. Unfortunately, that part of the charge required a challenge within 90 days and his court appointed attorney took a year to speak to him for the first time. As explained by the attorney, yes, the seizure and charge was illegal but the system was designed to prevent a challenge by anyone not rich enough to provide their own lawyer.
I saw someone get represented by a court-appointed attorney on two felony charges. The attorney was so bad and so unprepared that I wasn't surprised at the outcome.
It opened my eyes about the problem. The court-appointed system is unjust.
Since then, I have heard other people who also have been burned by the system say that you should sell whatever you own to get your own attorney. They are right.
On this we can agree. Adequate representation is almost totally missing for those that can't buy their own, and if they can afford it the cost of that representation will pretty much be everything they own.
Public lawyers are funded by the State and the more conservative a State is, the less interested it is in helping somebody who is presumed innocent prove they are innocent (rather than the state proving they are guilty). Unfortunately, those more liberal states that put more money into their public defenders are also home to huge populations which end up overwhelming the public defenders office anyway.
The problem, as I see it, is public attitude. My wife's family are your typical rural conservatives. A couple of nights ago at family dinner the conversation turned to this topic. Bottom line is, save for my wife and I (and not even her so much) the attitude was "if they got arrested, their probably guilty because the cops wouldn't arrest an innocent person. I think one said the person had to have done something wrong to catch the attention of the police in the first place.
I know that worldview is ubiquitous (I love that word) in America and it makes me very sad.
I really doubt that liberal states are putting more money (adjusted for living costs) into public defenders...per accused they defend.
Yes, I see that attitude (arrest = guilt) all too much, and it really is a sad thing. In effect it is the hanging mob all over again - laws and the whole concept of justice is left on the wayside. I'm not very happy with our whole justice system, and that's just a part of it.
Are you assuming that the poor were always there, but owned a home (or rented an apartment) before the big corporations came to town but since has lost that home or apartment due to rising prices?
I would highly doubt that - Seattle has been growing for a long time, and it has taken decades for prices to rise to where they are now. But Seattle is also pretty well known for providing free housing (they have spent millions and millions in doing so) - it is quite probable that the city itself created this problem with it's generosity.
But no, a corporation offering high paying jobs (that result in rising home costs) should not be held responsible because a landlord or homeowner raises the price of their lodging. That is nothing more than another case of deep pockets being required to pay "because they can". It is also extremely short-sighted, and is already seen with Amazon stopping construction on their new headquarters in Seattle because their labor costs just went up some $20Million per year with the new tax.
If you want to blame (and tax) someone, how about blaming the landlord that raised the rent or the person that paid more for their home than it sold for a year ago. Maybe anyone earning more than the average wage for the city in 2008 - if you take that money away they can't afford to live there, won't immigrate for the high paying job and prices won't rise.
Government has a very strong tendency to bury their head in the sand when it comes to consideration of negative consequences of their tax plans - to pretend that the only result of raising taxes, will be to gain the city (county/state/country/whatever) more money. It isn't true, but they've been doing it for generations and don't seem capable of learning that it isn't all golden egg; that eventually the golden goose will simply pack up and leave. Or fight back somehow.
"That is nothing more than another case of deep pockets being required to pay "because they can"."
"If you want to blame (and tax) someone, how about blaming the landlord that raised the rent..."
Wilderness, your third paragraph shows that once again you know nothing of what you speak. When an area comes up and housing prices rise, for whatever the reason, the property taxes take a jump with it. Then the landlord has to raise the rental rates to keep up his profits (to which he is just as entitled as the big corporations), or just break even, whichever. Also, many of the elderly who've owned their own homes are just getting by on retirement and often can't afford to keep up with these taxes so they lose their homes for unpaid taxes. Fortunately some states have "homestead tax" laws that hold the line on property taxes for homeowners, but not all do. There is no ceiling on property taxes for rental property, and the landlords have no choice but to exercise their right to raise the rent.
To hear someone so knowledgeable about basic economics blame the supplier of high paying jobs - because of those good jobs - for the ills of the city (and it's poor decisions) is confusing.
Guess such common knowledge is only available to the socialists among us that blame everything on the people that feed us all, and will do their level best to drive such evil away. Seattle is a great example of such excellent reasoning - "If you're going to support our people, feed, house and clothe them, we want either to be paid enormous sums for doing such evil or you can just get out!"
(You might look at some of the statements from Seattle officials, where they say exactly that. That large companies will be charged "because they can afford to pay.")
"Are you assuming that the poor were always there, but owned a home (or rented an apartment) before the big corporations came to town but since has lost that home or apartment due to rising prices? " - YES. That is the essence of what Seattle is basing their tax on.
Do I know it is true? Yes. I watched it happen in Northern Virginia where I lived. In this case, due to the housing bubble in the early 2000s, housing prices skyrocketed in the DC metropolitan area (as well as in many places elsewhere in the US) people were forced out of their houses because they couldn't afford the property taxes (and I think Prince William County even lowered theirs a bit to help) any more. It became a crisis that was only alleviated with the Great 2008 Recession.
Rents also became affordable due to the boom in beltway bandits spreading to the suburbs.
That also happened to a friend of mine in Las Vegas during the same period.
That is what is happening in Seattle.
Property tax - you realize that you're saying the city saw an absolute boom in taxes collected, but went right on collecting them? Never changed the rate people were charged as home values went through the roof, so were taking in double or triple what they actually needed. And it's reasonable to blame the corporation paying high wages for that malfeasance? I don't think so - was it prop 13 in California that put a stop to that nonsense?
But rising rents/homes - the town of Ketchum, Id., where Sun Valley Resort is located, has had a problem the last couple of years. It has become a town for the rich - movie stars and such - to the point that housing is completely out of reach for normal people. The result is that they can't get help for the ski area, can't hire store clerks or anything else. No one can afford to live there and the commute is out of line to anywhere reasonably priced. They've been decrying the situation for a while now, and I think I heard that the town was going to kick in for ski area help. I have a hard time feeling bad for those people that can't find help to operate the grocery store, the gas stations, etc. Even the people that were forced out made a killing when they sold their homes (Outside the resort I don't think there are hardly any rentals); they just moved their life elsewhere, but the super rich that remain have made themselves a problem.
The problem the left has is comparing ALL wealthy people to the "limousine rich" toads that sit in mansions like the above or in Hollywood and destroy micro-economies like "Ketchum's "and there are plenty of those , while most rich are entrepreneurial , actual creators and builders of wealth and infrastructure within the economies that they inhabit .
I would argue that "most rich are entrepreneurial" is not true, especially if they inherited their wealth. What statistics do you base that on.
What I have observed is just the opposite. In terms of a Venn diagram large circle X is ALL RICH people.
Large, non-intersecting circle Y are ALL NOT-SO RICH. Intersecting both circles is a third small circle Z which represents ALL ENTREPRENEURS.
So the alternative ? Wealth redistribution because some people know better how to use another's wealth ? They don't deserve or know how to use it to others approval it , so I do ?
So wealth doesn't just appear like snow flakes on the front porch , someone earned it , someone built that , someone whether they had it handed to them or not somewhere created that wealth . Was any of it "stolen "? No , highly unlikely . I believe large corporations create more prosperity , more jobs , more positive accomplishment that average individuals do and so deserve more leeway than not . Corporate social harm ? What , like Face Book , Twitter or Exxon and BP ? It is generally the human element OF any corporation that causes the "social " harm . So the individual responsible , if anyone , should pay .
We're not good in America at holding individuals accountable and all too often naively look to the object as the "cause all " for social ills . When we DO find an individual responsible for some sin , we too often let them off easy .
Actually, I did say "and I think Prince William County even lowered theirs a bit to help". PWC is where I lived at the time.
Didn't mean Ketchum lowered taxes - as far as I know they didn't. But to keep the "city" alive I understood they were subsidizing the wages of ski area workers. And maybe others, though I hadn't heard. They've also talked about building special housing for workers there, again subsidized by the city, but don't know if that ever happened.
They aren't trying to make housing cheap enough to live - they're trying to get low wage workers.
Where I am taxes are set by need of the county/city, not just property value. If property values in general rise then the tax rate automatically falls in order to keep taxes collected the same. Sounds like Seattle just went ahead and collected more taxes instead of what was needed.
This tax scheming plan by many states and localities is a farce , property taxes alone are driving people of little income especially older people , from their lifelong homes . Ranches , family farms ,classic , large, old , now popular and thus valuable homes and properties in new england and beyond are demanding sometimes ten - twenty thousand dollars a year in property taxes .
And we the "sheople" keep avoiding the obvious . We ARE right back where we started in 1776 , under the very tyrannical reign of taxation without representation .
Leave it to the social re-engineers to shame / blame the rich guy , Fact of the matter is rich people carry with them to the top of the ladder the "poorer " employees , the subcontractors , the private contractors , the surrounding community business' , the coffee shops , the repair shops the car dealers , the colleges the fast food joints , the five star hotels , the bars .............
Who doesn't get a free ride to the bank when corporations move to town ? Name one ! The realtors ? The home builders ? Day care owners ? The only "corporations" who "hurt " the societies they reside in are perhaps government employers they are the real phony incomes , pensions , polluters , and taxers ...............who's gross product is simply a living made from the very pockets of the employees who work there .
Yet ,check out Edgemount SD. a broke town , dirt streets and alleys , a dying community . Why ? The military munitions storage facilities have closed down . Leaving the people with out jobs , Empty government buildings , dead end jobs and lives . Low home values , Veterans and ex civil service employees who have moved elsewhere .
One thing for sure , As long as liberals put on their *Patagonia fleeces the *Keen hiking boots ,* L.L. Bean forever dry hiking shirts and brimmed hat from Viet -Nam , jump into the Honda Prius and head for the foot -beaten hiking trail around the pond they are as guilty of the worst offending corporation on earth of "causing social harm " .
Get out your check books kids , it's gonna cost us all .
by ahorseback 7 years ago
Whatever you do follow those party lines or pay for it dearly , you WILL be shamed ?
by Andrew Spacey 6 years ago
In this 21st century have the privileged got too greedy?If as humans all we need is food&water, shelter, love, work and belief shouldn't we be cutting down on our material luxuries?Is corporate greed to blame for the current recession and financial anxiety?Are tax havens for the rich...
by Scott Belford 5 days ago
This topic has come up recently across several forums, so I though I would start on specifically for this subject.The question comes up when mainly Democrats and some Independents complain that the wealthy do not pay their fair share in taxes. The rebuttal ranges from they already do to why should...
by ahorseback 7 years ago
Property taxation on the state and local levels varies in incredible amounts , Property taxes primarily can vary from a few hundred to Twenty thousand dollars for a half acre home ? Major Tax reform needs to happen now !
by Ari Lamstein 12 years ago
What countries and American states have the highest and lowest property taxes?Are there any American states or countries in the world that have no property taxes?
by Susan Reid 12 years ago
Wow. 500,000 households making more than $100K per year and 7,000 millionaires paid no income tax in 2011.Do they consider themselves "victims" do we suppose?Are they lost causes who will never "take personal responsibility and care for their lives"Excerpt followed by...
Copyright © 2025 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. HubPages® is a registered trademark of The Arena Platform, Inc. Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers to this website may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website.
Copyright © 2025 Maven Media Brands, LLC and respective owners.
As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.
For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy
Show DetailsNecessary | |
---|---|
HubPages Device ID | This is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons. |
Login | This is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service. |
Google Recaptcha | This is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy) |
Akismet | This is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Google Analytics | This is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy) |
HubPages Traffic Pixel | This is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized. |
Amazon Web Services | This is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy) |
Cloudflare | This is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Hosted Libraries | Javascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy) |
Features | |
---|---|
Google Custom Search | This is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Maps | Some articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Google Charts | This is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy) |
Google AdSense Host API | This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Google YouTube | Some articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Vimeo | Some articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy) |
Paypal | This is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Login | You can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy) |
Maven | This supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy) |
Marketing | |
---|---|
Google AdSense | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Google DoubleClick | Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Index Exchange | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Sovrn | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Facebook Ads | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
AppNexus | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Openx | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Rubicon Project | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
TripleLift | This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy) |
Say Media | We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy) |
Remarketing Pixels | We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites. |
Conversion Tracking Pixels | We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service. |
Statistics | |
---|---|
Author Google Analytics | This is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy) |
Comscore | ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy) |
Amazon Tracking Pixel | Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy) |
Clicksco | This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy) |