Is John McCain a Patriot or a traitor?

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  1. jackclee lm profile image81
    jackclee lmposted 16 months ago

    John McCain latest comment on trade talks at the G7 meeting...
    Is bizarre.
    He is taking sides against our country and our President.
    As a sitting Senator, is this a smart thing to do?
    Is he undermining our government and Constitution?

    1. jackclee lm profile image81
      jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this
      1. Credence2 profile image81
        Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

        So, Jack, it is now a cardinal sin to dare to criticize your "Annoited one"? This was a dumb move on Trump's part and he is being told such by virtually everyone.

        1. jackclee lm profile image81
          jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          I have no problem if McCain voice his disagreement with trade policies.
          This is taking it to a new level.
          What is the definition of treason?
          He is bringing this to a personal level and attacking a sittting president and taking sides with our trade competitors...
          Is there a line where a politician and a US citizen should not cross?

          We have two world views being faught in our country right now.
          We have on one side America first who is trying to imporove our country and our economy...while on the other side, a One World Order view where America is made subservient to an international organization like the UN...

          While we are debating this, guess what, other nations like Russia and China and Iran... are working to become the next super power...

          1. Credence2 profile image81
            Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Jack, you of all people are aware that in the US, the definition of "treason" involves espionage and active effort against the government during time of war. But conservatives throw the word around like a toddler throws around his breakfast.

            The rage against those that give Trump  the criticism he so richly deserves are just partisan in nature. So, if there is a "line", I am not seeing it.

            What is it with rightwingers, Jack?Are we the only nation in the world that have the intrinsic right to pursue our self interest in the international arena?

            1. jackclee lm profile image81
              jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              That is the problem. You and globalists seem to think we have no right to defend our own interests while other nations always act in their own interest.

              The immigration debate is one such issue.
              Why is it wrong for the US to secure its own borders while countries like Mexico and almost all other nations defend their borders against their neighbors?

              1. profile image0
                ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Jacklee , You're actually debating with the highly uninformed , All that some here see is everything through" the red" of their personal hatred  for Trump and so for all things Trump .  The left here is "Hooting and rooting" for Trump failure , no matter that actual cost to America .

                They twist they turn ;
                -Trade
                -Spending
                -Patriotism
                -Borders
                -Economics
                -Domestic policies
                -Diplomacy

                They see only through red lenses .

                1. Credence2 profile image81
                  Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  "Our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."

                  John F. Kennedy, 1961

                  Perhaps you could learn something from the quote of a man who was a REAL leader?

                  1. jackclee lm profile image81
                    jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Stop this real leader mentality...
                    JFK would be thrown out of the Democratic party of today.
                    May I remind you -

                    He was a tax cutter...
                    He was for a strong national defense
                    He asked “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country...”
                    He started the peace corp movement.
                    He was a womenizer...

                  2. profile image0
                    ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Kennedy also lead us to the brink of nuclear war , marched into Viet Nam ,  demanded  concessions from our trading partners , worked to protect our borders , believed in a strong defense , ....................


                    Hey , does that not make Trump "a REAL leader ."?

                    Note bias here ;.............................................................

                  3. jackclee lm profile image81
                    jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    A leader by definition, leads.
                    He rely on advisors and weigh all options and make an informed decision.
                    That is what Trump does all his adult life.
                    Just because most economist do not agree with the trade policy or tariffs, does not mean there is no better way. Many evonomists have been wrong in the past. It is not an exact science...

                    Trump and Reagan have shown real guts and buck the tread and conventional thinking
                    And time will tell if he is successful or not.

                  4. jackclee lm profile image81
                    jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Credence, what do you think of the latest news on North Korea?
                    Does Trump get any credit for this?
                    Does it warrant the Nobel peace prize?
                    Will John McCain praise Trump for this bold initiative?
                    So many questions...

              2. Credence2 profile image81
                Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Why is it wrong for the US to secure its own borders while countries like Mexico and almost all other nations defend their borders against their neighbors?

                No, it is not wrong at all. But if everybody acted exclusively on self interest, we all would have destroyed ourselves and the planet decades ago.

                1. jackclee lm profile image81
                  jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  When have we exclusively acted in our own interests?
                  We faught in wars defending some of the nations in the G7...
                  We give foreign aid annually millions to our allies...and 3 rd world nations...
                  Our people donate generously to charities that operate all over the world including catholic charities and the Red cross...
                  We help defend Europe and korea and a slew of bases around the world...

                  This notion that “we are the problem” is old and just not true...
                  Obama and his lead from behind foreign policies has demostrated the failure of that thinking.
                  When America doesn’t lead, the world suffers... look to Syria and see the refugee crisis...
                  And ISIS...

          2. IslandBites profile image87
            IslandBitesposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            And Trump is helping them.

            1. jackclee lm profile image81
              jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              How is he helping them?
              You and the people pushing the Russian Collusion theory are the problem...

    2. profile image0
      ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      I always held McCain in high regards but understood that he's an independent bordering on a Democratic ideology .    McCain  is also a globalist in trade and as trade goes we need both  , a globalist negotiation and a localised protection mentality .      Trump right now is negotiating locally for the global betterment of US. in trade . America's economy naturally works successfully  towards the  subsidization  of all others in the trade world , to the actual  DETRIMENT of our economy at times ., especially on the lower end of the mfg markets  ,
      McCain feels , as many do , that that subsidization is a part of the P.R game for our image , no matter apparently what the cost is in US jobs .

      1. jackclee lm profile image81
        jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I received this message as a response to a submission to the whitehouse.gov site...

        https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/14075752_f1024.jpg

        1. profile image0
          ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          McCain at this time  kind of has to be ignored ,     I mean the guy has serious brain cancer for one ,  so what he says about his obvious dislike of Trump in many ways is a mute point .      Other than that I have been politically disappointed in McCain several times . I know McCain IS a military hero albeit a controversial one even among veterans and I understand that , still I admire him .

          At least McCain is vocal in his opposition where the remaining senate works behind the scenes to sabotage Trump too often .   Look at Joe Biden and the family riches he's made in economic trade with China ?   There iS a traitor .   His son is enriching them both by trade subterfuge with China WHILE Joe is in actual trade negotiations !!!!.

    3. jackclee lm profile image81
      jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Here is the specific quote by John McCain that I have a problem with...

      https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/14088196_f1024.jpg


      So Senator McCain is not only speaking for himself, but for a host of Americans, who is against the Trade policies changes proposed by President Trump.
      Who is he standing with? The G6... our Trade partners. And which Americans? The lobbyists and big donors and Jeff Bezos?

      If he only said-  “I disagree with these trade proposals by Trump...” I would have no issues.
      As a sitting Senator, he is free to disagree with current Administration policies...

      I hope people with clear thinking minds can see the difference. Regardless whether he is sick or dying from cancer, he does not get a pass for these cheap shots.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image91
        Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        What great patriot you are, Jack. Believing a draft dodging pathological liar over an American patriot who suffered for is country is about right for you Spanky voters. Sick!!

        1. profile image0
          ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          You of course could have reversed that entire line exchanging the two names , Trump McCain twenty years ago Randy , you were there and you know it too doncha ' !

          Liberal hypocrisy - the term that you swallow whole.

        2. jackclee lm profile image81
          jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          You are entitled to your opinion but I am also entitled to my.
          Keep your diagnosis to your self... it is a sign of the problem in America. Everyone thinks they are the only sane person around.

          1. Randy Godwin profile image91
            Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Compared to Spanky, they may be correct, Jack!

            1. jackclee lm profile image81
              jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Believe it or not, I judge each issue based on merit.
              In the case of trade, I side with anyone that have a successful business career over a career politician who has never worked a day in the private sector.

              I can compartmentalize just as well as anybody.

              In case you missed it, I support an America first agenda whether it is coming from the right or the left...
              This comes down to several key issues...
              1. Trade,
              2. Deficits and debts
              3. Defense
              4. Border control
              5. Infrastructure
              6. Commerce and jobs and taxes...
              7. Healthcare and welfare
              8. Education

              1. Randy Godwin profile image91
                Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                I assume you're happy with the stock market's reaction to Spankys new tariffs then, Jack. And equally elated children are being separated from their parents due to another Spanky ploy?  And the trillion and a half debt given to the rich was a great move as well. I hope you're happy about paying it back.  You are a sharp cookie, Jack.  lol

                1. jackclee lm profile image81
                  jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  Randy, stop with the talking points...it is getting stale.
                  I am fine with the current stock market. It will go up and down with economic cycle and interest rate hikes and trade deals... it is what a normal enonomy does...
                  As for the immigration deal, it was Barack Obama that instituted these policies. These children should be taken from their parents for their own safety.
                  You have no solutions except to bash Trump every chance you get. I get it.
                  Too bad, your side lost and must sit at the back of the bus for a period - as Obama once said...
                  We will see if Trump can deliver on his promises.
                  If he succeed, guess what, you will benefit along with the rest of America.

    4. jackclee lm profile image81
      jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Just when you thought things could not get worse...
      We see this being revealed...

      https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 … cain_.html

      1. profile image0
        ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        And yet , The left will tell you that there is no" deep state "  ?   NOooooo.

        1. jackclee lm profile image81
          jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this
          1. jackclee lm profile image81
            jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Letter to Congressmen and Senators...

            Dear XXXXX,
            Today I learned that Henry Kerner, a former John McCain staffer, was an active participant and planner in the Illegal IRS targeting of the Tea Party and citizens affiliated with the Tea Party.

            Incredibly, I also found out that Kerner is Special Counsel in charge of all “whistle-blowing” witnesses and cases of government corruption.

            I am writing to tell you that I expect your immediate, public and aggressive demands for the IMMEDIATE firing and removal from office of Henry Kerner. This man urged the IRS to conduct ILLEGAL partisan political activities intended to deprive American citizens of our First Amendment RIGHT to petition the government for redress of grievances. Incredibly, he is now in a position to cover up, thwart and hinder investigations into activities he participated in.

            As a member of Congress, you have the MORAL OBLIGATION to insure that the laws in this country are followed AND, as an elected official, to oversee the activities of the government to help insure that our First Amendment rights are protected. There is no excuse for his actions. NONE. And you have NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER to avoid YOUR responsibility to represent the citizens in your district and D*E*M*A*N*D the immediate firing and removal from office of Henry Kerner.

            You are on notice. I vote in EVERY election. I urge my friends and acquaintances to vote. Your failure to act on this issue will be your downfall.

            WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH! We are tired of the lying, tired of the obfuscation, tired of the corruption, tired of the dishonesty and tired of the betrayal of us, the Citizens of the United States.

            DO YOUR JOB!!! If you don’t, we will remove you from office and put someone in who WILL represent the interest of the Citizens of the State of Alabama.

            ARE YOU LISTENING?

            If you wish to talk further with me about this, I will GLADLY talk to you.
            Yours truly,
            Bryan Alexander, American Citizen and Active, Registered Voter

            1. Randy Godwin profile image91
              Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Who in the heck is that guy, Jack?

              1. jackclee lm profile image81
                jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                A concerned citizen like you and me...

      2. jackclee lm profile image81
        jackclee lmposted 14 months agoin reply to this

        Senator John McCain past away today. Rest in peace. Amen.

  2. Credence2 profile image81
    Credence2posted 16 months ago

    If either if you could provide one, just one, REPUTABLE source with economists supporting Trump's perspective on this issue, explained with supporting data, I would be open to listening.

  3. PrettyPanther profile image86
    PrettyPantherposted 16 months ago

    "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else."--Theodore Roosevelt

    Trump is walking away from  the alliance of free nations while cozying up to a murdering dictator. What do you call that?

    1. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Thank you!!!

    2. Readmikenow profile image96
      Readmikenowposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Do you think that Donald Trump is the first U.S. president to "cozy up" to a murdering dictator for world peace?  I believe you need to think about FDR's relationship with the murdering dictator Stalin.  You could even look at the relationship between Nixon and China's murdering dictator Chairman Mao Zedong.Then there is the relationship between the U.S. and Spain's Farncisco Franco.  Yeah, world peace has caused some people to get their hands a bit dirty.

      1. PrettyPanther profile image86
        PrettyPantherposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Yes, you're right, but that doesn't have anything to do with what Trump is currently doing.

  4. Live to Learn profile image80
    Live to Learnposted 16 months ago

    Give McCain a break. He's at a point in his life where speaking his mind means more than it once did. Where true opinions will not affect his political career. And, it's been my experience that this stage puts people in a position to court controversy. I can find no fault.

    1. jackclee lm profile image81
      jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

      I wish he would take a break from politics.
      He has made mistakes and if he had won when he ran for President, he can do what he wants on foreign policy. Now is not his turn and he should learn to respect someone who did win against all odds.
      Just perhaps, the American people knew better...

      1. Live to Learn profile image80
        Live to Learnposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        He's an old man who has a terminal illness. I'm willing to cut him some slack.

        1. GA Anderson profile image90
          GA Andersonposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          Damn, that is nobly tolerant of you. Would you do the same if he were just "old," or is it the combination of also being terminally ill that warranted that slack?

          GA

  5. Readmikenow profile image96
    Readmikenowposted 16 months ago

    The problem is that John McCain is a U.S. Senator.  His salary is paid for by the U.S. taxpayer.  That alone obligates him to support the president of the United States against all other countries.  He is NOT a private citizen.  If you are a general in the military and you start helping a foreign army at the expense of your own, you would be fired and possibly brought up on charges.  What John McCain is doing benefits the enemies of the United States.  He needs to read his oath of office and see if he is actually fulfilling his duties.  Based on McCain's recent behavior, I'd have to say no.

    1. Credence2 profile image81
      Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

      Mike, there is a difference between a obligation of a military officer and a senator. The Senator is not in the President's back pocket. Legislative Branch is part of the check and balances, not just a rubber stamp for the Executive Branch. As a former member of the Armed Forces, I followed orders of those appointed above me, not engage in politics. What McCain as well as several other Senators are doing is criticizing the President's moves and questioning the motives behind them. That is what I expect them to do. No one seemed to have an issue with this while GOP Congressmen criticized Obama during his term?

      1. Randy Godwin profile image91
        Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        Well said, Cred! I have great respect for McCain, the man and the hero.

        1. jackclee lm profile image81
          jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

          There was a time in America when our poltical debate ends at our borders. Foreign policy was delegated to the executive branch. We speak with one voice behind the president. I guess those days are no more. It started with Bush and the Iraq war...

          1. Credence2 profile image81
            Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

            That would include the incident during the Obama Admin. with Netanyahu and the GOP controlled congress failing to remember that it is the President that takes the initiative in Foreign Policy.

            I have a long memory there, Jack

            Yes, those days are no more, such has been the case for true bipartisan cooperation in Washington, also.

          2. Randy Godwin profile image91
            Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            I didn't vote for him either, Jack.  Obama inherited his mess and cleaned it up for your idol Spanky to take credit for. Too bad he won't have Obama to blame for his poor statesmanship with our --possibly former--allies. yikes

            1. profile image0
              ahorsebackposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              ".......Obama cleaned up the mess ".............that's truly brilliant reasoning , just ask the people of Libya , Syria , Iraq , Afghanistan ,........ask China about how much interest we owe on our debt ,yea he cleaned up all right  , but pouring acid on a mess doesn't really clean it up , it just makes it uglier .

            2. jackclee lm profile image81
              jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              What if he succeeds? Just what if?
              What will you do? Move to France?
              You have allowed your hatred for this man to cloud your judgement.
              I pity you.

      2. Readmikenow profile image96
        Readmikenowposted 16 months agoin reply to this

        I believe McCain can criticize Trump to other Senators, CNN, Congressmen, Trump's wife, the Seattle Seahawks as well as any other American.  He crosses a line when he does it in public to the leader of a foreign country.  McCain has a history of crossing the line.  He contacted the Australian Prime Minister without Trump's authorization to negotiate on behalf of the U.S. Government.  That is NOT his job and may be against the law.   know he has brain cancer and is on his deathbed, so we'll have to put up with his antics for awhile longer.

        1. Credence2 profile image81
          Credence2posted 16 months agoin reply to this

          "I believe McCain can criticize Trump to other Senators, CNN, Congressmen, Trump's wife, the Seattle Seahawks as well as any other American.  He crosses a line when he does it in public to the leader of a foreign country.  McCain has a history of crossing the line.  He contacted the Australian Prime Minister without Trump's authorization to negotiate on behalf of the U.S. Government.  That is NOT his job and may be against the law.   know he has brain cancer and is on his deathbed, so we'll have to put up with his antics for awhile longer."
          ---------------
          Seems like Obama had to deal with much of the same "disrespect" when Netanyahu was accepted by the GOP dominated congress to address their body, allowing Netanyahu to end run the President and avoiding the appropriate diplomatic channels a couple of years ago. This was in regard to the Obama's Iran agreement. So, I don't see any difference, even though you would. There is an always an appropriate excuse for untoward behavior by Republicans, but when Democrats or the left does it, it becomes treason?

          1. Readmikenow profile image96
            Readmikenowposted 16 months agoin reply to this

            Credence, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.  If Congress refuses a request to by a foreign leader, especially an ally, to speak at a joint session, it would break protocol that started in the 1700s when Frances's top general came to speak to the Continental Congress.  Obama doesn't get to change diplomatic protocol in place for centuries.  No other president event attempted it.  I believe there is a big difference on voicing an opinion on the result of an ongoing negotiation and listening to a foreign leader plead his case on how a deal could be dangerous for his country and region.  In one case McCain was providing a public opinion and in the other Congress was listening.  I think this is a big difference.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image91
              Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

              Like Spanky follows protocol, Mike!  Seen his taxes yet?  lol

              1. jackclee lm profile image81
                jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                Couldn’t care less about Trump’s taxes...
                If he can bring jobs back to America, balance our trade, reduce regulations that limit our competitiveness, cut our tax burden and add to our 401k value... he is doing his job which no democrats can...

                1. Randy Godwin profile image91
                  Randy Godwinposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                  I wasn't speaking to you, Jack. Mike brought up the lack of protocol and I simply reminded him Spanky isn't too hot on it either. Of course You don't care about his taxes, you don't care if he's in bed with Putin either. tongue

                  1. Readmikenow profile image96
                    Readmikenowposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    I think some people need to work on learning the meaning behind the term "Diplomatic Protocol" or even the word "protocol."

                  2. jackclee lm profile image81
                    jackclee lmposted 16 months agoin reply to this

                    Randy, so let me ask you a serious question -
                    What do you think is more important to the American people?
                    Protocol? Taxes? Or money in their pockets and jobs...

  6. JAKE Earthshine profile image78
    JAKE Earthshineposted 16 months ago

    This is irrefutably the most despicable and revolting discussion I've seen here and I'd be shocked if HubPages let's this debasing of a great American hero continue, I just might leave this place because of it which would make some right wing radicals very happy I'd assume:

    FYI: There is ZERO evidence to support the ridiculous lie that Senator John McCain is a traitor, he served admirably in VietNam while Mr. Trump cowardly dodged military service several times by complaining that his little feet ached: So if anyone is seriously interested in obstructing the most dangerous betrayer in our nations history, look no further than the impostor sitting in our oval office:

    Mentally disturbed Mr. Trump enjoying a belly laugh with our Russian spy enemies while we are at war with them for espionage and stealing secret information belonging to Americans, then divulging classified intel to them in our oval office: The textbook definition of a traitor:

    https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/14075877_f1024.jpg

  7. Readmikenow profile image96
    Readmikenowposted 16 months ago

    https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/14077301.jpg

  8. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

    "IT"S THE ECONOMY STUPID " came out of the Bill Clinton era , And it is the blazing economy that will re-elect Trump , period .    Of course those of us who have been around awhile  know what a REAL lack of jobs is , a REAL lack of entitlement spending like the stimulus programs ., a lack of college loans , etc........

    Even IF the younger ,more entitled employees at all levels can't appreciate the success'  of Trump's economy ,  the corporations , wall street and the high dollar donors will ensure that four more Trump years happens , as we all know it isn't just votes that elect a resident of the white house .

  9. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 16 months ago

    Fox is the one conservative channel  and it beats the living snot out of the rest in ratings ,    Now why is that ?   Because of Kimberleys legs or Dana's hair , because of Laura's laugh ? No.
    It's because they speak to the majority of America , without telling us that "group thought and group act"  is the only way that we can understand and act upon  the realities of the world today .
    It's called independent thought and analysis .

    Liberals should try that , even just once.

  10. jackclee lm profile image81
    jackclee lmposted 16 months ago

    Here is an article that explains what we should care about... all of us Americans.

    https://amgreatness.com/2018/06/22/trum … ore-trust/

  11. profile image0
    ahorsebackposted 14 months ago

    Only our" Pravda Media"  would use a dead hero to criticize a live leader ,  It just proves to me that Fake News is alive and well and not properly lubricating its cooling towers ., The great Fake Media Melt Down is coming ...................CNN-Noble !

 
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Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)