1 - Roger Stone, long-time Trump adviser, confidant, and conspiracy theorist was indicted by Robert Mueller in his Russian probe. The most interesting, conspiracy related sentence in the indictment is
"After the July 22, 2016 release of stolen DNC emails by (WikiLeaks), a senior Trump Campaign official was directed to contact STONE about any additional releases and what other damaging information (WikiLeaks) had regarding the Clinton Campaign. STONE thereafter told the Trump Campaign about potential future releases of damaging material by (WikiLeaks)."
WOW! Let me emphasis: "... a senior Trump Campaign official was directed to contact STONE ... " Now, who might that "senior Trump Campaign" be? Jared? Bannon? And who did the "directing"? Jared? Bannon? or, how about Trump himself?
2 - The Democratic open-the-government proposal the Senate voted on was to open the government for two weeks while negotiating on how secure the border (and provide disaster relief). After that, and the Republican alternative, weren't able to pass cloture (although the D plan got closer). Then the airports got in trouble because the air space was getting dangerous. Today, Trump decided to end, at least for awhile, the shut down by accepting the Democratic plan (plus an extra week of keeping the government open.
I don't want to say Trump caved, because he did do the right thing and stop the harm to millions of Americans being hurt by this Fake crisis of Trump's own making.
So, what do you think?
He shoulda caved weeks ago, but we all know he's a dumbass! I mean those of us who were smart enough not to vote for him.
The more I see of Roger Stone, the more convinced I am that Trump himself was involved in colluding with Rusdia. The guy oozes slime.
Re the shutdown, I am glad Trump finally did the right thing and reopened the government. I suspect that he will continue to change the definition of a wall until it meets the criteria of the agreement D's and Rs already made, and then he will declare victory. What else can be do?
It will be interesting to follow Pelosi - to see if "negotiations" on funding the wall remain at "No! You can't have any money for the wall! End of conversation!", or if she was honest when she said "Let's reopen the government and then negotiate.
My money is on a complete lack of negotiation - she will refuse to even discuss the topic. At this point she appears to simply keep repeating the lie that she will compromise or negotiate at all. Just insist that her plan be followed in total, without anything being offered but that.
And then it will be just as interesting to see if she has the rest of the Democrats locked into her refusal to work together - are they in lockstep with the concept of "nothing but what I want" and pure partisanship or are they actually concerned with running the country?
Nancy "Powerhouse" Pelosi already made it very clear that Progressive Democrats will not give Bozo Trump a penny for some useless antiquated 2,000 mile pile of concrete that can be breached a million different ways, there will be plenty of money for REAL Security that works like High Tech Sensors and More border patrol agents and this is just another reason WHY Bozo needs to be REMOVED from our oval office ASAP because in another few weeks, if he's not indicted and still roaming our white house, this idiot will once again be harassed by white nationalist fascist anarchists like weirdo Ann Coulter and Rush Limpy into doing Vladimir Putin's bidding again, insanely shutting down our government:
WHY on Earth would anyone give this guy who is this close to impeachment / indictment a solitary penny for a wall that doesn't work ? How ridiculous would that be?
The ONLY good thing that came out of Trump's Shut-Down was a phrase reportedly said by Nancy and I paraphrase:
"This whole wall thing is about Trump's manhood, as if manhood could ever be associated with Trump"
Meanwhile, MORE indictments of Trump Weirdo Nixon Loving Associates and CLEAR Evidence filed with the federal court that a Top Trump Campaign Official was ****DIRECTED**** to Conspire with Wiki-Leaks aka Julian Assange aka Russia aka Vladimir Putin to illegally receive stolen property and DUMP this dirty info into our otherwise legitimate presidential campaign:
Yeah, we got the picture Donald, you love Wiki-Leaks and unfortunately for you, you screamed it publicly and guess what? It's all captured on FILM as evidence:
Do you think Trump should also concede something in exchange for funding for the wall (or steel slats, or fencing, or a virtual wall, or whatever he ends up calling it)?
I do. My suggestion is to come together in the middle and fund 3B worth of wall, as a trial to see what happens. Do you think Pelosi would accept that as a compromise or would her reply remain "NO WALL AT ALL!"?
I think she should seek something big in return. Otherwise, no. Trump has created an unnecessary crisis and should not be rewarded for his childish and irresponsible behavior.
Something big. As in fixing the DACA mess created by Obama? That could work; she gets creation of a method for citizenship for DACA people, Trump gets his 5.7B. Or did you mean that Trump should get half the wall while Pelosi gets her whole package?
But it's interesting that you think Trump should be "punished" because Pelosi refuses to negotiate in good faith or agree to any compromise at all. That goes right back to the type of political games that got Trump elected, and which has put us where we are now. I don't see these games as productive for the country, but then I'm more interested in Congress running the country than in partisan politics or in "defeating" anything that comes from Trump.
Thank you for, once again, telling me what I think. I'm clueless without your insight into my own mind.
The Ds and Rs came to an agreement that Trump rejected. This is on him, which he readily admitted. Of course, I am not surprised at your alternative interpretation of the facts.
Did I misread your statement that "Trump has created an unnecessary crisis and should not be rewarded for his childish and irresponsible behavior."?
Democrats came to an agreement on the wall? Not that I've heard. If you mean they came to an agreement on DACA, they did - at least some agreement. It was a nonsense one, but they did agree to pretty much do nothing. Keeping DACA people as second class citizens operating in the country illegally for another 10 years doesn't seem like a good plan to me.
Most Republicans in Congress don't want the wall. Most Americans don't want the wall. Trump wants a stupid wall because Ann/Rush/Sean hurt his feelings.
If Nancy agrees to any wall funding, she should get something big in return. Donnie created this mess, not Nancy or Chuck. It's on him to get out of it, not Nancy or Chuck. Most people see this, you choose not to.
"Thank you for, once again, telling me what I think."
"Trump wants a stupid wall because Ann/Rush/Sean hurt his feelings."
LOL I trust you see the irony in these two comments.
It's always interesting to listen to people declare that "most people" what what they do, without even checking it out. Even if true (and sometimes it is) it seldom has anything to do with what SHOULD be done. As an example, look up interviews with ranchers and sheriffs on our southern border and see what THEY want. The people it most directly affects and that know the most about the problem.
No, Donald Trump did not create the mess with illegal aliens crossing the border. He didn't even create the political mess we're in. Congress did that, even to the point of making it common and accepted to shut down government in order to get a partisan package they want.
Most people understand this (See? I can do it too!) - it's exactly this sort of behavior that got Trump elected. Massive partisanship, refusal to compromise, and (always) playing the political game to hurt opponents taking priority over running the country. You choose to allow your hatred of Trump to blind you to what is, and has been, happening for decades, but many of us do not.
In this specific case (border wall), it's cheap. Go ahead a try it - see if it helps by talking to the people (border patrol) that will use it after it is done. But no - partisan politics demands that nothing from the other party be accepted, no compromise, no negotiation. And the people and the nation pay the price, as always.
You are something else. I suspect the reason you didn't check the accuracy of my "most people" statement s is because you suspect they are true. http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm
"No, Donald Trump did not create the mess with illegal aliens crossing the border. " The mess I was referring to was the shutdown, but I'm guessing you knew that.
"Most people understand this (See? I can do it too!)"
Can you back that up like I did my "most people" statement?
As for the rest, you and I agree there should be give and take on both sides, right?
I'm sorry, but after the fiasco in the last election I don't put a lot of trust in polls. I've always questioned them (it's too easy to sway results), but that really left a sour taste in my mouth.
Yes, compromise is necessary in a democracy. We just don't see any anymore.
The polls had it right in the end. Most polls had the race a toss up in the final week after Comey and the Russians through the election to Trump. Only in one of the four critical states had Clinton winning in that state outside the margin of error.
To repeat myself, the polls had it right. (The LA Times poll had it more right than the rest in that it predicted a Trump win.)
And when did compromise stop?? With the Gingrich revolution.
Non-compromise - extreme partisanship - began years and years ago. Over a decade. It has not stopped, but instead has grown to where our government paralyzes itself repeatedly and as a result can accomplish nearly nothing.
Even ObamaCare, the shining jewel of the Obama administration, was accomplished only through political chicanery and not through compromise and bi-partisan support. Every time additional gun controls come up it is the result of refusing to accept any compromise and instead continue the fight for centuries if need be to reach the goal. Same with abortion laws. I predict we'll see similar actions taken with laws on gay rights.
Our legislators are no longer interested in running the government or doing what our country needs. Only in protecting and growing the power of their party and themselves.
"As an example, look up interviews with ranchers and sheriffs on our southern border and see what THEY want. " - I have and most say they don't want no damn useless wall. They also say they don't want the conservative government stealing their land to build it on.
"Go ahead a try it - see if it helps by talking to the people (border patrol) that will use it after it is done. " - You already tried this approach, WIlderness, and misrepresented the facts.
Most border patrol agents don't want a 2,000 mile long wall. They say, and Democrats agree with this, is they want fencing in certain strategic areas where it will do the most good. Maybe 100 - 200 MORE miles (isn't there already 600 miles of barriers already built?)
In many cases "Congress did that, even to the point of making it common and accepted to shut down government in order to get a partisan package they want." is correct - but not this time.
This shutdown is 100% Trump since he promised Republicans he would sign the funding bill until his handlers, Coulter et al, told him not to. He didn't even have to claim ownership, even though he did, on this one.
Of course it is solely Trump. After all, the Democrats have made a reasonable compromise on the funding of the wall - $0 and a total refusal to negotiate anything else being "reasonable" to them, and that makes it all Trumps fault.
It's always the opposition that is at fault when we see these shutdowns isn't it? It started that way, it continued that way and it is that way now.
I know you will ignore this once again, but the D's are under no obligation to provide funding for a wall that their constituents and the majority of Americans don't want, especially when it was the president who rejected a bipartisan deal, and especially when his own party had two years to give it to him. That said, now that he has agreed to end the shutdown as requested, the Ds must compromise, but so must the Rs and the president.
I still not quite sure WHY CONservatives don't seem to comprehend the words "NO waste of taxpayer money for a useless archaic wall that doesn't work":
Appropriating money for a 2,000 mile pile of concrete is like asking for money to re-start manufacturing on one shot muskets and complimentary bayonets for our military:
But don't worry your pretty little heads off CONservtaives, Bozo Trump's brilliance has cornered him into a negotiating nightmare where his ONLY out now to appease the alt-right Nazi loving weirdos like "Boney" Ann Coulter and Rush Limpy is to declare a national emergency which will be immediately contested in court by Progressive Democrats:
Tell me, Wilderness, let's cut to the chase and I will keep this to a single question which I have asked many times before but you will not answer.
Why did Trump break his promise to the Republicans in Dec to fund the government? It is THAT broken promise by Trump, and only that, which led to the shutdown. The Ds don't even enter this picture.
Can you answer me that?
I wouldn't know - I'm not in his circle of advisors nor in his mind. Did he give a reason?
The Ds don't enter the picture? Now you tell me - had they funded the wall with the 5.7B asked for would there have been a shutdown? Or even another opinion - had they offered half that figure would there have been a shutdown?
Well, the answer is...…..a resounding.....NO. Wilderness, the Democrats are about to sabotage Trump at every turn because they are ANGRY that he won instead of THEIR Hillary!
Not even close to the truth, Grace! We're angry because he's made a farce out of the WH. How many close cronies have to be indicted for you to understand this simple fact? Where do you get your "facts" from? Seriously, do you use several sources of news for your opinions? If so, what are they?
DACA was working just fine, thank you, until Trump screwed it all up trying to please his xenophobic base. All the Ds are trying to do is fix what Trump broke.
Also, why do you want to waste $3 B on something that has almost zero rate of return? Will it slow down the few drugs that trickle in through the non-ports of entry? Probably, for a little while until they find a way around it. Why don't you want to take that $3 B and spend it on strengthening the ports of entry?
Will the wall stop terrorist? No, although none have come through even the ports of entry on the Southern border that anyone knows of. The Trump Shutdown made conditions ripe for terrorists to come in the way they normally do, through the airports.
You say "But it's interesting that you think Trump should be "punished" because Pelosi refuses to negotiate in good faith " - WHY SHOULD Pelosi negotiate with a guy who broke his promise to fund the government in the first place?
Assume she does negotiate - why would ANYONE expect Trump to keep his word when he has broken his word so many other times. NOBODY but a fool would believe anything Trump says.
Tell me, Wilderness, why should we waste money on Trump's version of a "wall" that all experts says is a big waste of money and won't do what he says it will. Remember, Trump's version is a 2,000 mile continuous barrier (that was his initial promise). Unforturnately, it doesn't close off the ports of entry where 90% of all drugs and human trafficking come through.
What the barrier MIGHT stop or slow down are the families fleeing violence in their home country.
For anything else, Trump's own guidance is to go over, under, or through to get to the other side.
The wall is worse than worthless.
"Tell me, Wilderness, why should we waste money on Trump's version of a "wall" that all experts says is a big waste of money and won't do what he says it will. "
Probably because real world experience shows that it IS helpful. The bigger question is why the naysayers ignore that evidence and simply repeat that it won't work, without ever having tried it. Nor does pretending that the only people entering illegally are "fleeing violence in their home country" (as if that makes a difference) - the large majority are "fleeing" nothing but poverty.
But here, an interview with someone that actually works with the border patrolmen responsible for controlling that border. An "expert", in other words, but an expert in real life, not just thought up excuses:
"INSKEEP: So how different is the border going to be assuming that the president's orders are carried out here?
JUDD: I don't think it's going to be - well, OK, it's going to be a lot more secure. But what we're talking about is we're talking about a wall in strategic locations. We're not talking about a great wall of the United States. We're not talking about a continuous wall from California down to Texas. We're talking about a wall in strategic locations which then helps the Border Patrol agents do their job better."
https://www.npr.org/2017/01/26/51174540 … wall-plans
Here's the "Grand DEAL": Bozo Trump, although ALL the evidence points toward his forthcoming impeachment and indictment very soon, he gets 25 Billion for his IMMORAL useless pile of border concrete which should get him about 1/5 of the way across the border with supporting roads etc in exchange for IMMEDIATE Cancellation of his and republican's Corporate Welfare Tax Cut Scam" and IMMEDIATE Passage of critically essential legislation that includes what every American needs regardless of age which is "Medicare for ALL from Birth to Demise" with unlimited coverage and caps and the condition that you must be an American Citizen to receive the medicare insurance and comprehensive benefit:
So there you go, Donald and his republicans gets money for what he thinks is an emergency in exchange for a Progressive Democratic GOAL which is covering ALL Americans with Comprehensive Health Insurance and Medical Treatment which everyone knows is an absolute essential to alleviate a REAL Emergency in this country:
"Probably because real world experience shows that it IS helpful. " - I have asked you to PROVE this before and as far as I know, never got an answer.
Are you talking about the relatively short wall between Israel and the Palestinians. You know, the one with impassible desert on either side?
Or our you talking about the 150 mile fence between Israel and Egypt to keep Somalis out? Yes that worked, because Israel accompanied that with laws to prohibit Israelis from hiring the refugees.
Show me just ONE 2000 mile wall that worked. Hell, I'll even accept a 1,000 mile wall of the type Trump talks about. As they say, put up or shut up.
"the large majority are "fleeing" nothing but poverty." - Again, back that false statement up with statistics. Show me the studies where that is the result.
YOUR source says "We're talking about a wall in strategic locations which then helps the Border Patrol agents do their job better."" NOBODY, including Democrats, disagrees with that statement. The PROBLEM is, that is not the kind of wall YOU our Trump is talking about. You are talking about a 2,000 mile solid wall. (I can give you dozens of quotes if that will help refresh your memory) YOUR source was NOT talking about that type of wall now was he?
So what's wrong with with creepy Roger's mouth ?? Is he spitting Up or are his choppers a little loose ??
40 years this strange bizarre Nixon Lover has been close friends with Bozo Trump, he even has a tattoo of "Tricky Dick" on his back so they say: Imagine that, Roger has a picture of the most corrupt president in history who is the poster boy for the word CROOK and he's a close associate of Donald's: My my my, what a coincidence:
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