I recently posted a poem in a Facebook poetry group. The poem is a mixture of serious sentiment and humor. And you must keep in mind that in this particular group people have often posted poems glorifying dangerous and deviant sex acts. My poem is tame in comparison. There is no gratuitous vulgarity, and there is nothing demeaning toward any particular group.
So what was the problem? The problem was ... the poem expressed my love of the USA and respect for the President of The United States. Whoa! All hell broke loose! A moderator immediately responded that my post should be taken down. It was a very popular post (mostly insults) for about an hour and then it was taken down. I am posting it here so that you can decide for yourselves if this is terribly inappropriate. I am a US Veteran. And I am greatly offended that I am no longer allowed to express love for my country without being ostracized and ridiculed. Did I miss something along the way? There is a cabal of low-life Fascists who are taking over. And it appears Trump isn't draining the swamp fast enough!
I love the U.S.A.!
I'm making America Great Again
Just by being alive
You think it's a joke?
Then catch the next flight to points unknown
I'm making points of my own
But not with you
Because you are an idiot
from the Twilight Zone
You cheered for Madonna when
she disrespected Trump and showed her ass
She could have gotten lucky with me
But now: "No Thanks! I'll pass"
I got a mojo hand
I'm a guitar man
I got 'em standing in line
At the Sugar Shack
Singin' songs by Wet Willie
and Burt Bacharach
I didn't make the scene at Woodstock
Because I was too young
Too well dressed
And too well hung
The Hippie Chicks would have lost their mind
My handsome features are so well defined
I'm making America great again
Yesterday, tomorrow, and today
Why? How's come? and What For?
Because ... I love the U.S.A.!
I Love The U.S.A copyright 2019 Jimmy John Grimmer
You've inspired me! I hope to get this poem posted to a pro-Trump facebook group. What do you think the chances are?
I love Madonna!
She Made Voguing Great Again
Just by being alive
You think it's a joke?
Then catch the next flight to points unknown
Her costumes had great points of their own!
Because you are Trumpophile
from the Twilight Zone
You cheered for Trump when
he disrespected the Constitution,
sold us all to Putin.
This oaf has no class.
Vote for him? "No Thanks! I'll pass"
I got mojo hands
I'm a synth man
I got 'em standing in line
At the Sugar Shack
Singin' songs by Madge
and Burt Bacharach
Trump didn't make the scene in Vietnam
He was too rich, too well dressed,
with bone spurs and tiny hands!
Trump would have lost his mind
If his fake exemption wasn't signed.
I'm making Madonna great again
Past, present, future, always an honor
Why? How's come? and What For?
Because ... I love Madonna!
I'm not on Facebook. Would you mind posting this to a Trump FB group and letting me know what happens. Many thanks. Look forward to your report!
Facebook is a corporation and not a government agency. It can do whatever it wants with its own website.
Besides, if you posted to a Facebook "group", how do you know it wasn't an individual who created the group -- not a Facebook employee -- who took it down?
Poetry is tricky, what one person gets from a poem may not be what another gets from the very same poem.
Your poem is interesting, as I read it I could envision Trump reciting it projecting all the same sentiments with his eloquent way of speaking. Were you intending one to feel the poem was Trump revealing his own thoughts in his own unique way?
I consider the poem tame in comparison to many things we read online in regards to President Trump. However, just consider could the person that removed the poem may be anti -Trump. And your poem literally could be seen as a get in your face description of Trump's personality, and the transparent way he shares his unfiltered sentiments. Some are not willing to accept his kind of over the top bluntness, and might choose to censor it? In the end, Facebook has the right to make decisions on what they find objectable.
So were in regard to your poem were you trying to disparage Trump or were you glorifying him? Are you pro-Trump or anti -Trump?
Sharlee01, Thank you! Yes, I agree it is very tame. I am a well educated person. I also understand that there is more to politics than meets the eye. But behind the scenes machinations notwithstanding, I genuinely like Donald Trump's style. Most importantly, he's been getting things done. Like I have said, I don't allow any political party to set my agenda.
I live about as far south as you can get in the U.S.. I have witnessed bigotry and racism first hand. I have also been active in the Civil Rights movement for many years. What comes out of a man's mouth doesn't necessarily make or break the man. I don't know Mr. Trump. But he has said or done nothing that indicates he is either a racist or a misogynist. I, like many other Trump supporters, am tired of the Obama style: "phoney politik baloney speak". As a student of history I have studied the rise of Fascism in Europe prior to WWII. Since the arrival of PC we have found ourselves in a state of "soft Fascism". This agenda is being pushed forward by both the right and the left. And as you have witnessed, the focus here has been on demeaning my character, while ignoring the fact that democracy is on the decline. ./
I agree with your sentiment on "phony politicking". It was one of the conditions in the Country that made way for President Trump to win in 2016. The rise in soft fascism on the part of Dems agendas will be what gives him the win in 2020. Which is actually being proved by the Dems way of conduction the ongoing impeachment inquiry. The Dems although following the law, have chosen to not follow precedent in regards to prior impeachments. I think by doing this it's another well-earned nail in their coffin
You are certainly not alone when it comes to appreciating
Trump's. "style". It is common to use the tool of demeaning one's character when one can't understand or respect another's right to a different opinion.
You've been well informed as to why the Dems are proceeding as they are. Shar. I suppose you've forgotten....
Randy, I made mention of just that? Not sure you read my entire comment. I have not forgotten the link IslandBite provided with the information on the subject and Judge Napolitano's explanation of the law. The Dems have not followed the previous precedent but chose to adopt to do it behind closed doors. The previous residential impeachments were open procedures. AS you will see by my statement I made mention of the procedure is legal.
" Which is actually being proved by the Dems way of conduction the ongoing impeachment inquiry. The Dems although following the law, have chosen to not follow precedent in regards to prior impeachments. " not sure why you needed to make a derogatory comment?
As I've said before Shar, get angry at the Right as they changed the rules when they last held the House. And you don't seem still to understand why they're having the previous interviews behind closed doors.
Do you understand why Grand Juries are held behind closed doors, Shar? The trial will be held in the Senate.
Do you understand what a Grand Jury is and why they are formed? A grand jury is a jury – a group of citizens – empowered by law to conduct legal proceedings and investigate potential criminal conduct, and determine whether criminal charges should be brought. ... Grand juries perform both accusatory and investigatory functions.
the House Intelligence Committee is not a Grand Jury. And yes it well seems they are withing the law holding the procedure behind closed doors. Do I think it fair? No I don't, and it has nothing to do with right or left, it has to do with fair...
Why change the subject? First, you make the claim I have a poor memory. Then you go on to compare ow the House committee is comparative to a to a Grand Jury. As I have said many times I am very well acquainted with the impeachment process.
One thing is apparent we certainly have different opinions on what is fair...
Then you don't understand why Grand Juries are held behind closed doors. Or why the secrecy is so important. There are Republicans involved in the process who are free to ask questions of the witnesses. You're acting as though this is a trial instead of a fact finding process, just like a Grand Jury.
Once more, the trial will be held in the Senate.
The poem lacks poetry.
I guess you feel that the times are changing (Woodstock ;-) and you need a way to express yourself.
Politics and art though are a terrible combination. You can see it at all the dictatorships who try to use the arts for political gain.
The paintings and sculptures made under Stalin, Hitler, Franco etc are terrible.
Or you make a good political statement, or you make a good artwork. But to do both is pretty difficult. The Guernica is one of the rare examples as a symbol against the war (although the context is Guernica, it has a much broader scope and is against all cruelties of all wars)
About the content of the poem... a bit 1 dimensional methinks...
So my personal advise is. Make more poems and less politics.
I disagree, although I respect your unflattering critique. But poetry notwithstanding, in this context there are only two types of human: People and Sheeple! The Sheeple want to enjoy all of the benefits of modern society, but they lack the strength,courage, and motivation to challenge the status quo when necessary. Rather than helping to maintain our democracy as loyal patriots, they instead function as a parasitic monolith whose apathy exudes a foul excrement that continues to erode the foundations of democracy and freedom. "We The People" have chosen Donald Trump. The Sheeple are gnashing their teeth and foaming at the mouth because they are content to obediently follow the globalists into a fascist, dystopian nightmare!
Maybe you don’t realise it but By calling your political opponents sheeple and characterising them as “parasitic monolith whose apathy exudes a foul excrement that continues to erode the foundations of democracy and freedom.” You dehumanise them. A classic method the fascists used with the jews. As it is easier to gas animals then people. Include a strong nationalist sentiment and bingo you behave exactly like a fascist.
Using the word fascist in a casual manner to shield of the type of person people might accuse you of.
It’s fine to be proud of your country, That does not make you a fascist. But the above does.
Include a nostalgia for “my country used to be great but isn’t anymore” (the second Reich, Hitler wanted the third Reich, the third golden era of Germany)
Include an enemy that’s weak but at the same time strong and the culprit of all the problems. (The jews - in your story the globalists)
I really don’t know if you realised it Jimmy but the response on my comment is pure fascism talk,
If you want to know the definition of fascism google : Ur-Fascism by Umberto Eco. Read it and understand that I’m not using the word fascism in a popular way or to scold.
First, I want to say that AMERICA has always been a great place. I came from poverty and changed the outcome of my life. As did my mother and my children. I was a conservative most of my life and made sure to research each person running for office and not just voting straight down republican or Democrat as a lot of others often do. When you start using words such as idiot to describe those who do not believe the same way you do, it destroys what you are trying to convey. While I did not find your poem funny, insightful, or just plain good, I will not call you names because those are the things YOU believe. Obviously, those who read your poem on Facebook did not like it and there were enough to cause fb to remove it. There are pro trump sites this would be great for. We have a right to protest what we believe. Again, I will say that the America I grew up in has always been great. I just will not stand by and watch someone divide this country, bring out the worst in people (name calling etc), and destroy... yes I said destroy our faith in government and the judicial system. If I could write another 2000 words I would. I have studied Trump and watched everything he has done and said. That is why I no longer am a republican on paper. I have decided to put my country before any party.
“I could shoot somebody and not lose voters”..Trump
Obviously you don't have a dark sense of humor. I'm sure you were not a big fan of George Carlin. One of Jim Carrey's most popular characters on "In Living Color" was the Fireman who was disfigured from being burned in a fire. A lot of people have suffered this in real life. However, I don't remember a great outcry over his skit that ran on a regular basis for years. My use of the word "idiot" is far less offensive than that. Especially since I didn't mention any group by name, except Madonna, and I'm sure she would not be too terribly hurt. And you don't like Trump\, so for you the issue of censorship is not as great as the issue of Trump and my sense of humor. But it's not Trump, or my sense of humor that is turning the US into a Fascist state. It's people like you who want to force your antiseptic Ozzie and Harriet viewpoints on the rest of us.Thanks for responding, but your critique is biased. Trump will win again in 2020. You'll just have to live with that.
I do not think is "terribly inappropriate". I just think is bad.
Edit: Ok. Just saw is a new account just to post that, so troll alert? Or maybe a joke. Anyway, still bad.
LOL! I don;t care about whether or not you think it is a "good" poem, that is ridiculous. That is a superficial matter. I am not emotionally invested in a poem that took 10 minutes to complete! You said you didn't think it was terribly inappropriate. Fine.That is what the focus of this topic is all about. But twice you state that it is "Bad". I don't have to be a psychology major to ascertain that this means you focused more on the quality of the poem, or your preferences, than on the matter of censorship. Wow! If these two responses are any indication of what to expect on Hubpages, I'm not going to waste my time putting quality content up for an audience this uptight about art and self-expression. I feel like I got caught in a 1950's time warp! Thanks, but No Thanks!
I thought the same thing, but I really don't like poetry so didn't know if it was me or not.
Nice try! Mine is still better. But like I have already commented. It's not about the quality of the poem. It's about unnecessary censorship. It appears there are a lot of liberals here who can't get over the fact that the worst democratic candidate to ever compete in a Presidential Campaign lost to Donald Trump. What did you expect? The democrats don't even like her. Bernie could have been a contender, but now he's half-dead! Nobody is going to vote for a corpse! I thought Hubpages was primarily populated by adults. I guess not. It appears the lot of you have been so beaten down you could care less about censorship.
Live to Learn, Trust me, It's you! Are you all related? Or are you a collection of bots Hubpages rolled out to take up the slack?
Hmm. One guy says it's me. Everyone else seems to disagree with you.
Who oh who do I trust?
Go ahead and agree with JJ, LTL. I think he's in your camp....
this is obviously a left leaning person, doing a poor impersonation of their idea of an alt right unstable person. Sounds more like someone you'd enjoy the company of.
He's a typical Trump supporter, LTL. Ask him yourself if you doubt it.
Oddly (incredibly oddly since I've been in the public sphere for business my while life) I've never run across someone like this, which tells me this is just a poorly done parody. Which is why I thought he'd get on well with you.
This is typical Liberal behavior, Censorship is a non-partisan issue. However, Liberals only seem to believe in democracy as long as they are winning. When on the losing end it goes from democracy to mob mentality! This is a disgrace and an outrage! If you all feel so disillusioned with our democracy , why don't you move to Mexico? I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms.
Your response is a perfect example why a handful of tyrants have always been able to control the masses. This is about censorship, and a trend toward Fascism in our society. This all started with the Political Correctness, and it has been downhill ever since! I am quite well aware that Facebook is a privately owned entity, and I am also aware that Facebook groups are created and managed by individuals who have the right to take down whatever they see fit. Whew! I shouldn't have to explain that. But moving on.
It is "the public's reaction and apparent apathy toward such censorship that is disturbing". And this reaction is well within our control, regardless of the context. This has less to do with who is driving the bus, and more to do with "how" we choose to ride on the bus. What you are doing in your response is essentially questioning the legitimacy of my complaint, which is in the same realm as blaming the victim. In this case the victim would be a society that relies on freedom of expression, and the free exchange of ideas without undue hindrance.
Pretty Panther, Yes I did, and No, I have never had anything removed from my page except an image I posted of my best friend, Mr. Longfellow Johnson. Randy Godwin, Thank you for the compliment!
Don W, No! Your poem is not only derivative and plagiaristic, but it's not as good as mine. Maybe you are a writer, since you are a member here. And maybe you write great articles and essays that the Stepford Wives love . But you are not a very good poet! Laura Sebastion would not be so kind. Since she stopped short of saying my poem "sucked", I am sure she would crucify your pathetic attempt at a remix. I can only wonder what great works of art Laura has bestowed upon the community.
I am not a poet Don. Laura , Islands Bitter, and Live To Lose, figured that out from the get go! But I am an artist, and I understand form and composition. Stick around and I will teach you something:
You see Don, I know my poem is better than your sarcastic mockery because you left out an important ingredient. You left out "Arrogance!" This illustrates my potential to be a great poet. Since this poem is about Donald Trump and MAGA, I purposely included the braggadocio because Trump is always being unfairly accused of being an arrogant narcissist. Can you spell "a stroke of genius? "Absolutely! I know you can. You rendered my poem limp and lackluster by removing one of the most important ingredients. Not only did I write a poem about the Trump affair, but I caricatured his alleged arrogance as well. And I did it so well that Karen nearly boiled over and used a four letter word!
No, I'm not going to promote this abomination! I will not glorify the vitriol raised up from the of gobbledygook that oozes from your contempt of the greatest President since JFK! Today I have taught you a valuable lesson. And that is more than the Class of 2020 assembled by the dumbocrats will ever give you!
So you won't post my poem on your Facebook page because you don't like it and choose not to. Now to reveal the stunning truth...
My poem was not only an artistic masterpiece (if you think otherwise you clearly have bad taste) it was also a lesson in logic. How so, I hear you cry.
Well if it is ok for you not to post my poem on Facebook because you don't like it and choose not to (I guessed that would be the case) then it's ok for "Karen" to do the same. Alternatively, if Karen is censoring you by refusing to post your poem on Facebook, then by the same standard, you are now censoring me. Therefore your criticism is hypocritical.
Wow, not only have you gotten a masterclass in political poetry, but you've also gotten a lesson in logic, all for free! No thanks needed. All part of the service.
That's right Fat Freddy! Go ahead and Yuck It Up at my expense. But none of you will be laughing so loud when the New Order comes goose stepping down Main Street USA.
Don W, You are wrong again! There is no comparison here, and you have only presented a strawman. This is not about someone refusing to post my poem. This is not about a man of many talents being bitter because the haters refuse to accept him. When I consider Joan of Arc, Jesus, Galileo, George Wallace, and Martin Luther King, I realize that I am walking with a mountain, and in very good company! This is about a poem that is Pro-USA / Pro-Trump being taken down after it was posted in a public forum. A public forum where "bad poetry" containing vulgarity and anti-American, anti-Christian, sentiment is common! No! I'm not going to re-post your poem.
But neither am I crying for it to be taken down! That is the obvious difference Don. I'm not trying to censor your opinion, no matter how derogatory to my position it may be. Nor am I trying to censor any of the hateful commentary that has come my way! It is clear that Hubpages is a hotbed for anti-American sentiment. You see Don, I am a "real American". I believe in freedom of speech and artistic expression. Without such freedom there is no hope for a democracy. Here, you have fought the good fight, and here your argument has given up the ghost and taken it's last dying breath.
Freedom of speech, or artistic expression, does not mean the right to to use a private venue (your FB account, or Karen's) as a public bulletin board.
Whether it is spraying graffiti on the side of a store or painting a Michelangelo on a ceiling, you only have the right to deface private property when you have been given permission to do so. You did not have that permission; you did not have the right to what you consider "free speech" until you choose a different venue.
Like many great artists I don't expect my work to be fully understood, so I understand your lack of appreciation for "Ode to Madonna" and I forgive you for it.
My argument is alive and kicking though. My poem is not visible on your Facebook page because you don't like it. Your poem is not visible on the relevant Facebook group because whoever controls that group doesn't like it.
If it's ok for you to refuse to show my poem because it's anti-Trump (I prefer to call it pro Madonna!) then it's ok for the person who controls that group to choose not to show your poem because it's pro-Trump.
(I'm considering a change to the title of my piece. I feel "Ode to Karen" might be more appropriate).
One strawman after another Don, and the hits keep coming! I thought I had made my position clear. I never suggested that the founder of a Facebook group should not have the right to edit and reject content. Where did that come from,except from your vivid imagination? The crux of my argument concerns public apathy. Public apathy feeds a fascist trend. But when the founders of Facebook groups realize that the public they depend on isn't on board with censorship, they are less likely to restrict opposing viewpoints. This is how democracy has always worked Don. The Montgomery Bus Boycott is just one good example. The passengers on the bus didn't own the bus. But ultimately the racists who supported discrimination were forced to back down. No one has a "right" to unfairly and maliciously discriminate in Jimmy John's World. And when they do I will be ready to meet the challenge; to rise up fully erect and crow like the Rooster!
"I never suggested that the founder of a Facebook group should not have the right to edit and reject content...The crux of my argument concerns public apathy"
That's strange, because you've repeatedly said the issue is censorship:
"... for you the issue of censorship is not as great as the issue of Trump and my sense of humor."
"I don't have to be a psychology major to ascertain that this means you focused more on the quality of the poem, or your preferences, than on the matter of censorship."
"It's about unnecessary censorship."
"It appears the lot of you have been so beaten down you could care less about censorship".
"This is typical Liberal behavior, Censorship is a non-partisan issue."
"This is about censorship, and a trend toward Fascism in our society"
"But when the founders of Facebook groups realize that the public they depend on isn't on board with censorship, they are less likely to restrict opposing viewpoints"
Apparently you do think someone rejecting a poem you've written because they don't like it, is "censorship" and a sign that "fascism" is alive and well.
You also seem to be under the illusion that Facebook is a public domain. It's not. It's a private enterprise. Allowing people to decide what content appears on their pages and groups is part of the service. You agreed to the terms and conditions of that service when you signed up for an account. If you don't like it, you have no obligation to continue using the service.
So no, it's not "censorship". It's just choice within the terms and conditions Facebook have set. But good news, you have inspired my next piece. I give you . . .
Ode to Jimmy
I wish I could get through to Jimmy,
I wish he'd relax, perhaps go for a swimmy.
He could splash around all day,
Blow his cares clean away.
Even do a nice little shimmy.
But he only wants to complain.
He confuses public and private domain.
He's getting tenser and tenser
He thinks Karen's a censor
I'm wondering if Jimmy is sane.
Live to Learn, Parody? It is clear that you will say anything to disparage a patriot, and anyone who is capable of critical thinking. They should put you and Don W on the Jimmy Kimmel show; right after the dancing bear! I claim neither a liberal or a conservative ideology. I think for myself. I like Donald Trump! After 80 years of Obama, (Yes, it seemed that long) his honesty is refreshing. Trump may be rough around the edges, but he has lived up to his pledge to put the USA first. He has made an effort to improve the V.A. and conditions for veterans. I know this first hand because I am a veteran. Just because you choose to treat the greatest President since JFK as a joke, it doesn't mean that anyone who appreciate's Trumps leadership is presenting a parody. Your slander is nothing less than an outrage!
Live to Learn, The historical record reveals that it is typical of those who embrace a fascist ideology to label anyone with an opposing viewpoint as "unstable". I would not deem you unstable simply because of your viewpoint. That would be childish and ineffective. However, it is apparent that you are anti-American. And that is not a matter of opinion because your own commentary, and your lack of support fits the definition. I will tell you the same thing Merle Haggard told the world: If you don't love it ... leave it!
Do people even read a post before commenting? I never posted on Karen's account. I only referred to her comment here in this forum. That kills the first half of your argument. And the second half of your gobbldygook is a strawman! That is exactly what social media is designed for: posting images and topics we are concerned about. Otherwise there wold be nothing posted! So for all practical purposes it is a bulletin board. Being a member of said group also gave me the permission to post, Einstein.
And political humor when not blatantly vulgar is entirely appropriate. People demean Christians and Trump supporters on the same site with impunity. You are in the wilderness, because you haven't got a clue.
I can only repeat that you do not have the right to post as you wish on someone else's venue. Post your poem on MY FB account and you will quickly figure that out.
YOU may find it appropriate, but that does not mean others do. Would you maintain your FB account if others filled it with porno and violence that THEY consider appropriate? The owner makes the rules, not you.
Apparently you are either trolling or you don't understand the English language. And I don't post on individual accounts. I post in public forums. Look up the word public. After that look up discrimination, fascism, and political correctness. After that you should take a break and watch your favorite episode of "I Dream of Jeannie".
For the record: Maybe some of you should try reading the OP before unleashing your fury on those of us who respect Donald Trump, and the office he holds. It clearly says in the title of this post : Facebook "Groups". Facebook, the primary in Silicon Valley, had nothing to do with it. And who is "Karen"? More than one person has mentioned that I posted on her Facebook page. I may have responded here to someone named Karen. But I don't know her. And I only post in Public Forums.
Wow,yet another strawman. Of course I am talking about censorship. There, I said it again! I can't believe you have presented this as a smoking gun. Not once have I suggested people should be forbidden to censor. That would infringe on their right to be ignorant. I'm saying that blatant censorship at any level is wrong, and that it is the responsibility of the public to create an environment that discourages such behavior. This is exactly what I have done. I have witnessed a dangerous trend and so I am doing something about it.That's the American way, Don. But I think what's really going on here is that you, and a number of others are simply pretending to not understand for the sport of it. Rock on Amadeus! But you see Don, I don't have to censor anyone. I just destroy their ridiculous arguments with uncommon sense.
"... it is the responsibility of the public to create an environment that discourages such behavior."
Which is what has been done. You are free to post your poem on your own FB page. You may put it on a sign in your yard (if the HOA agreement you signed permits it). You may paint it on the side of your house.
But you cannot put it on on the property of someone that doesn't want it there.
So you chose not to take a swimmy and do a nice little shimmy. That's a shame.
"Of course I am talking about censorship."
I know, that's why I said it. Problem is, what you're referring to is not censorship. It's just freedom of choice within the bounds of the service Facebook provides.
What you're really saying, is that you don't like the fact that someone chose not to show your poem because they didn't like it. According to you, the more virtuous action would have been for them to show it even though they personally don't like it. According to you it's everyone's "responsibility" to encourage that type of behavior in society, and discourage choice based on personal views, what you (falsely) calle "censorship".
"I have witnessed a dangerous trend and so I am doing something about it."
And I am trying to apply the standard you have outlined. BY that standard, you should show my poems on your Facebook page as requested, even though you don't like them. And it's my responsibility to encourage you to do that, and discourage you from "censoring" me by using choosing what to show based on your personal preferences. That is what I'm doing.
So why aren't you showing my poems on your Facebook page?
Your incessant gobbldygook is quite remarkable Don. I don't post that type of content on other people's pages. That's what "groups" are for. My personal page is not a "group". And you know better. Just admit the truth. You have contempt for anyone who supports Donald Trump.
I'll answer that last query, JJ. I feel pity rather than contempt for anyone who supports the cretin. There's a difference you know.
"I don't post that type of content on other people's pages."
And that's your choice. My choice is for you to show my poem on your Facebook page. There's no reason you can't, you just choose not to. So you're putting your personal choice before mine. Just like the owner of the Facebook group is putting their personal choice before yours.
According to you that's "dangerous" and we should discourage people from doing it. So I'm discouraging you. I'd like you to post my poem on your Facebook page, so when you choose not to, I can falsely claim you're censoring me and suggest it's part of a right-wing fascist conspiracy to silence liberals. Then I can go to a public forum, relay my tale, make grandiose statements about public apathy and censorship, and characterize myself as a martyr who's held in contempt for speaking the truth, when in reality people just think I'm being absurd.
What do you think of my cunning plan?
Right! You sound like a broken record. That is a similar argument that the segregationist movement used in the 50's and 60's! Didn't work! .Your glory days are over. Step into the 21st century. This is amazing. I post a serious discussion on a writers site and I'm greeted by Archie and Friends!
With statements like "Your glory days are over.", "Step into the 21st century." and "I'm greeted by Archie and Friends!" you don't sound very serious. Instead you sound like someone desperate to hold on to their opinion, similar to a child putting their hands over their ears so they can't hear what they don't want to hear. Insults and name calling rather than factual, reasoned discourse has that effect on readers.
There are two distinct ways of being belligerent. There is the direct approach, which is what I prefer because it's more honest, and then there is the insidious,"What? Who me?" method that you an Donny W have perfected!
Neither one of you are as naive and sincere as you pretend. Both of you understood what this was all about from the get go! But you have purposely posted your strawman arguments to aggravate and harass. Now you want to play the victim. Sorry, like the song says,"I'm all out of love!" From the very start the nastiness directed my way had little to do with me or the issue I raised. This isn't "Okie Dokies Forum of the Hootenanny Jubilee!"
Writers join Hubpages to publish articles they've written. "What does that mean Jimmy?" "Gee!" Jimmy said: "Maybe it means they can all read and write, are all well educated, and they're just pushing my buttons to see how high the monkey can jump!" And the fact that I support Donald Trump put a label on my forehead that said: "Fresh Meat". This is all about Donald Trump! Almost 4 years later and you still can't get over it! Well guess what folks? I'm hopin' we can set a precedent and keep Mr.Donald Trump in the White House for another 8 years!/
Although I personally probably would not call someone an idiot for disagreeing with me (mainly because that does tend to turn a reader off who may have a different opinion), I agree with Sharlee that it is not an uncommon occurrence and it's generally not meant to be an insult taken personally by any one specific individual. The admin moderators of the group took your poem down either because it didn't follow specific group rules or because they are not supporters of Trump.
If you were to create your own group on FB, you would be in charge of who posts and what they post. It's the right of the admin to take things down they don't want to be posted. If you want to know the specific reason it was taken down, perhaps ask the moderator. That doesn't make it fair, but then again, they don't have to be fair when it's their own group.
People were loving it! There were over 150 comments in less than 3 hours. Sure,it was more like a lynch mob, but they enjoyed it. I expect it was a moderator who pulled the plug. And no, it didn't violate any rules. It just went against the grain of a predominantly liberal anti-Trump,anti-Christian, anti-American audience. In that particular group I have seen vulgar poems posted with outrageous profanity, as well as poems glorifying sado-masochism. No one seems to have a problem until someone expresses a degree of pride in the United States and all hell breaks loose! It's troubling that tame political humor and patriotism is now considered offensive, while vulgarity is considered high fashion.
Yeah Randy! Glorifying sick and perverted behavior is something I cannot abide with. But the problem here is, I'm not the one trying to censor people. I'm simply expressing my distaste for a PC trend that now labels Christian values and patriotism as offensive. As an example, one woman posted a poem about the joys of Autoerotic Asphyxiation! She was applauded by a majority of respondents for her "courage and depth of expression". If you prefer a Cest la Vie approach to life more power to you. But I'm not going to agree with madness. I was one of the few who politely suggested she seek help. And for doing this I, and the other sane people who challenged her dangerous behavior, were called every vulgar name in the book! This is not where the world is heading, Randy. This is where the world is!
Tell me more O wise one. Perhaps you can answer the question of the ages. Will Mexico pay for the wall?
Cant say! I'm not in the mix. They will pay one way or another. We all know that Trump is not to blame for conditions south of the border. That is a complicated issue that started with colonialism, and perhaps even before. But in our own lifetime we can clearly see who is to blame. We can blame greedy businessmen whose lust for cheap labor has encouraged the mass exodus from south of the border to the United States. This has been going on for well over 60 years!
And we can also blame a drug culture in the United States that has created the most lucrative illicit drug trade in the history of the world! So not only are the people coming here to escape extreme poverty, but they are also caught up in a drug war that is being fueled by the decadent drug culture here in the United States! Trump inherited a mess. You don't like the wall? What's your solution Randy?
You could always start your own group and publish it there.
People on HP and FB and just about any public platform are ready to fight and argue about politics. If you post on someone else's group page, especially on a platform like FB where individuals are free to create their own groups separate from FB endorsements, then you risk having your post comments disabled or the entire post taken down simply because a moderator doesn't want it up anymore. Anyway, that's just my opinion about the fairness of taking your poem down. You may not feel that i tis fair, but the fact remains that any group moderator on FB has the right to take down any post they want to. To avoid that, you'd have to start your own group and be the moderator.
I understand what you are saying and I agree. However, I also understand that Fascism and Democracy cannot coexist. This problem goes far beyond the issue at hand. This is a continuing problem throughout our society. It is apparent with the major news networks as well. They often serve up one-sided narratives to further their agenda. And such biased reporting amounts to a clandestine form of censorship.
Democracy must be maintained and cannot be taken for granted. Cancer in the human body begins as something seemingly insignificant. But eventually it consumes the entire man.
I see nothing wrong with your work. Everyone is entitled to his opinion and this one is valid as well as comical.
Keep writing. Don't let one group stop your voice.
The poem is fine, my guess is that Jimmy got overly defensive of the people commenting about the substance and said something that violated Facebook policy there.
No, I did not violate Facebook policy. Rather, I violated the anti-Trump,anti-American, globalist mentality that is being promoted by major "fake news" networks like CNN.
Thanks Brenda, I have a Stoic approach to adversity. I don't get too emotional about it. I just decide if there is something I can do about it and then move forward.
lol, as is often the case, when you hold a mirror up to someone, they often don't like what they see.
I live in the USA! I welcome opposing viewpoint's. However, I'm not going to entertain any more of Don's absurd arguments. A Facebook group is subject to the same moral and ethical standards as a restaurant, a supermarket, or a football stadium. Unwarranted discrimination is unacceptable whenever, or wherever, a business or a private individual seeks to benefit through access to the public domain. If I created a Facebook group I would give Don ample room to express his childish fantasies.
"A Facebook group is subject to the same moral and ethical standards as a restaurant, a supermarket, or a football stadium"
That makes no sense. Online groups and forums like Facebook groups, the HubPages forum etc, are more akin to publications than brick and mortar retail establishments. That's one of the reason they use a similar lexicon: people "submit" their "messages"/ "comments"/ "articles"/ "content" which are then "posted" or "published" to the group/ forum.
They are even organized in a similar way: publications typically have an editor. Online groups/forums typically have a moderator or admin. The editor makes editorial decisions about content. The moderator/admin makes editorial decisions about content.
So online groups/forums have more in common with publications than shops. And social media groups have more in common with fanzines and other self-published amateur publications. The idea that such publications are subject to the same moral and ethical standards as a restaurant, supermarket, or stadium is absurd.
It is accepted custom and practice for editorial decisions to be based on factors including: appeal to target audience, quality of content, editorial/ community guidelines, site T&Cs, the artistic preferences of the editor etc. With social media groups, the admin is often an amateur enthusiast, so personal preference often becomes a key factor.
As far as I know, it's not accepted custom and practice for a restaurant or shop to decide who to serve based on the artistic preference of the manager.
The type of publication is also a factor. Poetry is an artistic form. It is, by definition, subjective. There is no reasonable expectation for editorial decisions on a social media group related to poetry, to be anything other than subjective. If it were a site related to general politics, like this forum is, then that would be a different story.
Why not post a link to this Facebook group so we can all see the content ourselves, and consider what might be a reasonable expectation for that group. So far we only have your side of the story.
Aw, c'mon Don. You and I both know that every restaurant and supermarket in the country is morally bound to allow unlimited advertisements or communications to be pasted all over their windows, walls and displays. With anything the poster wants on it, whether porn, "for sale" or a Picasso.
You also know that every ball team fully supported Kapernick and his use of a privately owned venue and the anthem to "protest" something or other. It's why he is such a star now, after all - he was so lionized after his use of the NFL venue for his personal display that every team begged him to play for them.
And don't forget the moral standard requires all restaurants to allow any member of the public in to express their political opinions to the diners as they eat. Or the supermarkets that are morally obliged to allow shoppers to use the PA system to express whatever political messages they want.
Absolutely! That's why supermarkets have dozens of microphones hanging from the ceiling everywhere; so shoppers can use them to express their feelings about things.
It's nice our stores are so morally inclined. I'd hate to do without those free billboards and soapboxes everywhere.
What you have delivered here is typical "PC Speak". And of course you make the Holocaust connection in order to shift the negative focus in my direction. A very cheap shot indeed! You shamelessly exploit an old misery in order to support your narrative. However, I am not the the one calling for censorship at any level. I am simply calling for awareness. And if you think that apathy and kind words are going to save a decadent society you are sadly mistaken. Madonna casually stated that she would like to "blow up the White House". During WWII Americans were imprisoned for making public statements far less inflammatory. And Jimmy Kimmel has mocked the President since before he took office! I hardly think my generalized assessment of the swamp creatures that seek to destroy America even compares to such hateful rhetoric. I'm simply calling a spade a spade.
I pointed out what fascism means. And simply showed you the characteristics of the ideology.
I did not make the connection (and Shoah is not an old misery but a genocide and a crime beyond words.) to paint you black, but to make you aware that you are using the same elements that are used by fascism. knowingly or not.
I don't think you realized it so that's why I asked you to google the word ur-fascism described by Umberto Eco.
http://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umbe … scism.html
"However, I am not the the one calling for censorship at any level."
Yes, I think you do.
You are offended when a poem is not published on Facebook for whatever reason and call it a censorship on freedom of speech. And at the same time you want to have Madonna locked up because she gives her opinion. This is pretty contradictory to me.
btw. you only gave a part of Madonna's speech. She said:
" I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House, but I know this won't change anything!" - in other words, she is not encouraging people to blow up the White House or violent actions, on the contrary.
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