I listened to both Democrats and Republicans get up and give the same speech as they prepared to vote on articles of impeachment. Democrats got up and gave the same speech: our President should be impeached because he did bad things. Republicans got up and gave the same speech: the process is unfair and the President did nothing wrong and this is all a sham.
One after another, every single politician came up and toed their respective party line. We only needed two total speeches because everything that followed was exactly the same depending on whether you were a Democrat or a Republican.
Here's what I wanted to hear from somebody, anybody:
"Regardless of party, we are all here to work for the people of the United States and we have stopped doing that. We are growing ever more partisan. We can no longer even agree on the definition of truth and facts. The American people do not expect us to stand up here and argue and get nothing done. They expect us to work. Despite our differences, they expect us to come to agreement on what we can and move forward. Ironically, there is more that we agree upon to move this country forward than what we disagree on, yet we choose to fight and disagree. We're taking the easy way out. Instead of fighting for each other, we're fighting against each other. It's much easier to ignore our political opponents than it is to work together and find common ground. The American people want us to work together. Whether you believe in impeachment or not, what is happening to today is progress toward the destruction of our country. It's time for us to stop fighting, to start working, and to start taking the smallest of step to figure out how we can come together and move this country forward. If we don't, our Democracy and our Republic will cease to exist."
The minority leader had considerably more to say. Perhaps because he was the only Republican (that I saw) granted more than 30 seconds to speak. On the other hand, Pelosi had no more to say that the rest of the Democrats did in the 2 minutes they had.
All I heard was partisan bickering, a bunch of people with no awareness that they had zero chance of convincing those on the other side of anything. They seemed unaware that working together on something would be more productive than arguing on and on. But perhaps that's just a reflection of the American people. We just want them to fight. We won't re-elect anyone who doesn't put down the other side. We want our alternate facts and our conspiracy theories and our pipe dreams and we want our politicians to take no prisoners.
I don't think they tried to convince their peers of anything - not with the partisanship that was so obvious. Instead they were trying (and failing) to speak to the cameras in the hope of convincing a gullible nation that pure partisan voting (less the two D's in areas voting Trump) proves the other party has to be wrong.
I didn't see a single person acting on behalf of the American people and recognizing that things, regardless of your opinion on impeachment, are going very wrong.
As hard as it is to believe, most of us agree on many more things than we disagree on, yet we choose to focus on those things that we disagree on and politicians, even more so.
I think our politicians need to go back to the basics and work forward.
As I have said previously, if things continue to go in this direction, we will lose our country. We'll either swing toward dictatorship or toward socialism. This is what happens when you respond to the fringes and not to the mainstream.
I didn't see anything on behalf of the country, either. Again, the minority leader came close but still failed; what he had to say might have merit but was still based on super partisanship.
We took a baby step in correction when we elected Trump. Do it again with a hundred or so representatives and the message may get through. May.
Well, we disagree on the election of Trump as a correction of anything. However, electing Clinton would have been worse from the perspective of sending a message to the politicians that we're fed up with "politics as usual", so if that's the message, that may be okay.
I just don't think electing horrible people is a recipe for anything other than disaster. Shouldn't the President reflect the country in both temperament, intelligence, and grace? Maybe I'm dreaming.
That said, the election of Trump may, in fact, make things worse, particularly if it motivates the left to move in some kind of insane direction.
Being partisan for a moment, I know Trump supporters are touting his economic record and I can't disagree that things are good now. However, go look at the deficit. We're seeing a repeat of the Bush years. Trump got his big tax cut on the backs of the American worker and we're all going to pay the price soon. The promised economic uptick hasn't occurred. Things are slowing. Look at it however you like - massive government spending followed by massive tax cuts is going to result in bad things.
Yes, that was the message - no more "politics as usual".
I'd have to hesitate to say that we should have a president that "reflects the country" in temperament or grace. Or intelligence - I expect more there. As far as the other two - are you discussing the culture, the temperament and grace, of the Hillbillies of Kentucky? The oligarchs of Wall Street? If it's the Great Unwashed Middle Class, would that be from the streets of Richmond, Va. or the farms of Iowa and Kansas?
Point being that there is no national temperament or grace to reflect. For every person you might choose as representative there will be 100 voices crying different.
But Trump is low class in any part of the country, Dan.
How very liberal of you - the idea that the country is made up of many different types of people and no one person can represent the entire country is a concept scholars have been teaching for decades and a concept not widely accepted by the right, so congratulations!
That said, education, intelligence, and grace are generally concepts with widely accepted meanings, so to imply such definitions are simply more "alternative facts" is no truthful. However, I do very much appreciate you recognizing that America is a collective of many different kinds of people.
Ah, but I did not mention education at all, and intelligence only enough to mention that average intelligence is insufficient to serve as the most powerful person in the world.
Grace and even temperament...I'll stand behind what I said. "Grace" to a Tennessee hillbilly or even a Kansas farmer not only has a far different meaning than to one living in the heart of Manhattan or Beverly Hills, but is likely to carry a different connotation as well. The dowager from BH is likely to find it absolutely necessary in a President, while the hillbilly is likely to scorn what he views as "grace" and champion clear, plain speech that is as non-PC as it can get.
(Or maybe I'm putting my own prejudices onto both the hillbilly and the dowager!)
But Crank, I've lived in one of the poorest counties in Va (when I moved there half the country had no running water) and in a very nice, gated community full of amenities. I've lived 50 miles from the nearest city and in the largest metropolitan area in the state. I've had good friends that signed their name with an "X" and others that were multi-millionaires. I've worked and played with blue collar workers as well as 6 figure white collar managers handling hundreds of millions of dollars.
This country is chock full of every kind of person there is...and that's something the left loses sight of just as easily as the right. When the work ethic is denigrated in favor of charity that is not only accepted but applauded, when college becomes the only standard for our young, when the blue collar workers keeping us all alive are "deplorables", well, the left has abandoned the common man of the country.
This is true. All you have to do is look at left-leaning towns and how they deal with their homeless. Even left wingers balk at homeless shelters when somebody proposes they be built in left-wing neighborhoods.
That said, we generally elevate those in our society based on on intelligence and education. Grace - not always. And where our President is concerned, it has been generally accepted throughout history that our President should represent the best of us, not the worst.
And that's not even to say that Trump represents the worst. He is a President for our time, but what does that say about the time? What does that say about us?
On the good side, it says that we are sick of politics as usual and we are sick of politicians constantly feeding us b.s. - saying one thing and doing another.
Maybe you have not checked to see what exactly President Trump has done for the country w/o help from the perspective Parties, and listening to this bs since before he was even elected. I am sure though, you could have done better, right? He has done a fantastic job w/o the backing a President is supposed to have.
The money that has been wasted since he was elected by the Democrat's could have placed most ot the homeless under a roof with food.
So you are saying lets keep the Border's open, continue with one oversight committee after another, pay welfare to illegal's and so on. Is that right?
What words would actually make a difference on the way things are? Schiff and his buddies have told one lie after another and wrote the impeachment articles on exactly what they did and you want to hear more empty words. Personally, I have heard more words than I thought could be thrown and people believing themselves when everytime they opened their mouths you knew they were lying.
You support a daily liar but don't like others to take his cue? BWAHAHA
I could respond to you point by point and refute everything you've said. However, you are entirely missing the point of this particular forum, which is not surprising. You can read my other post in this forum for information on the economy.
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